Jason Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Is anyone on here who is Muslim? If so, or anyone else knowledgeable about the teachings of that religion, I have an honest, curiosity question. I'm not trying to start any "trouble". The only thing I think I "know" about it is the virgins in paradise. Is that true? I believe there must be some truth to it because I have never heard it disputed. If so, here is my real question. And, this question may seem like I'm looking for trouble, but I promise you, I'm not. What's in it for women? Do they have a different afterlife? Are they the virgins? (being a virgin for eternity doesn't really sound appealing to me if I were a woman) or do they become men? If anyone has knowledge on the subject and can answer the question, I appreciate it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTBengalsFan Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm [quote]Like Christianity, Islam teaches the continued existence of the soul and a transformed physical existence after death. Muslims believe there will be a day of judgment when all humans will be divided between the eternal destinations of Paradise and Hell. Resurrection and the Day of Judgment A central doctrine of the Qur'an is the Last Day, on which the world will be destroyed and Allah will raise all people and jinn from the dead to be judged. The Last Day is also called the Day of Standing Up, Day of Separation, Day of Reckoning, Day of Awakening, Day of Judgment, The Encompassing Day or The Hour. Until the Day of Judgment, deceased souls remain in their graves awaiting the resurrection. However, they begin to feel immediately a taste of their destiny to come. Those bound for hell will suffer in their graves, while those bound for heaven will be in peace until that time. The resurrection that will take place on the Last Day is physical, and is explained by suggesting that God will re-create the decayed body (17:100: "Could they not see that God who created the heavens and the earth is able to create the like of them"?). On the Last Day, resurrected humans and jinn will be judged by Allah according to their deeds. One's eternal destination depends on balance of good to bad deeds in life. They are either granted admission to Paradise, where they will enjoy spiritual and physical pleasures forever, or condemned to Hell to suffer spiritual and physical torment for eternity. The day of judgment is described as passing over Hell on a narrow bridge in order to enter Paradise. Those who fall, weighted by their bad deeds, will remain in Hell forever. The Qur'an specifies two exceptions to this general rule: Warriors who die fighting in the cause of God are ushered immediately to God's presence (2:159 and 3:169); and "Enemies of Islam" are sentenced immediately to Hell upon death. Paradise "O soul who is at rest, return to thy Lord, well-pleased with Him, well-pleasing Him. So enter among My servants, and enter My garden." (89:27-30) Paradise (firdaws), also called "The Garden" (Janna), is a place of physical and spiritual pleasure, with lofty mansions (39:20, 29:58-59), delicious food and drink (52:22, 52:19, 38:51), and virgin companions called houris (56:17-19, 52:24-25, 76:19, 56:35-38, 37:48-49, 38:52-54, 44:51-56, 52:20-21). There are seven heavens (17:46, 23:88, 41:11, 65:12). [/quote] http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/72_virgins_in_paradise/ [quote]To start off, you need to understand what the rewards in Jannah (Paradise) are. The Quran says that those who do get into Paradise will be rewarded with blessings that eclipse anything on earth; unlimited food of your choice, riches, and wishes come true. Things considered sinful on Earth such as wine will be allowed, and people will be able to eat and drink all they want and not get full or hungover or sick. People will be reunited with their friends and relatives, we will all be made young again, and there will be no anger or pain. Everyone will be given palaces to live in, and clothing fit for royalty, with luxurious couches and thrones for everyone. There will be rivers of the purest water, milk, wine, and honey, all of which are better than any you will find on earth. Those who get to the highest part of Paradise, Jannah al-Firdaus, will also be able to see Allah with their own eyes. So, in a sense, Heaven is a paradise filled with pleasures. You need to imagine the context of when this idea of Paradise was revealed to the people; of the extremely stark and difficult life of ancient Bedouin Arabia. Something as simple as the constant flow of water in a stream was considered miraculous, so it would be natural to imagine heaven depicted this way, flowing with streams of water under the shade of huge trees. (Well what did you expect Paradise to be? Clouds, wings, and harps?) Also, the believers who make it into Paradise, male and female, are promised beautiful companions, known as “Houris” in Arabic. The Quran describes them in some detail as such: “Serving [the believers] will be immortal youths with jeweled and crystal cups filled with the purest wine which will neither give them headache nor hangover, with fruits and meats of their desire. They will be fair ones with lovely intense eyes like guarded pearls; A reward for the good deeds of their past life.” (56:17-24) “We have created mates for them and made them virgins, matched in age, for the companions of the right hand.” (56:35-38) “They will be chaste, restraining their eyes in modesty, never touched by man or Jinn."(55:56) “Serving them will be immortal servants. When you see them, they will look like scattered pearls.” (76:19) ... [b]Women aren’t left out: A man in paradise will get numerous female servants for himself, while a woman would get male servants. The Quran says that women shall be compensated just as well and says about the believers that “they” (the gender unspecified) shall have perfected mates/spouses as a reward of their deeds (2:25, 3:15, 4:57). So women will get the man of their dreams. Actually, even better than you could dream of.[/b] ... There is no direct evidence in the Qur’an to support there being 70 or 72 for each person. The numerical value of 70 is derived from a Quranic commentary by Quranic scholar Ibn Kathir. The number 72 comes from a hadith that says “‘The smallest reward [each] for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from [Damascus] to [Yemen].’” Do Muslims believe it literally? Are they required to? This particular Hadith has technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered 100% authenticly faultless, though it is listed in an authoritative collection. As a result, Muslims are not required to believe in it, though many inevitably do (but an even more respectable Hadith with virtually the same message can be found in a separate hadith collection). Most muslims believe that they will experience incredible physical pleasures when they enter heaven, and that you will be happier in heaven than you could possibly be in this life. Some say that the houris are a metaphor for the ineffable joys of the afterlife. “Ineffable” is the perfect word to describe it, since Allah promises rewards beyond imagination, meaning you can’t even guess what reward lies ahead since there is no equal on Earth. Ergo, if you can imagine the greatest, richest, best thing in this life, then what will actually be there will be even better.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 The Afterlife....something of which we can be assured we know nothing about...thankfully NO ONE in the entire world operates under the assumption that they know what happens to (the non-existant) soul after we die. Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enon Bengal Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='23 December 2009 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1261590768' post='847061'] The Afterlife....something of which we can be assured we know nothing about...thankfully NO ONE in the entire world operates under the assumption that they know what happens to (the non-existant) soul after we die. Doh! [/quote] I can understand not being a believer. I don't get the hate and bigotry you openly display in every thread related to religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 [quote name='Squirrlnutz' date='23 December 2009 - 01:52 PM' timestamp='1261590768' post='847061'] The Afterlife....something of which we can be assured we know nothing about...thankfully NO ONE in the entire world operates under the assumption that they know what happens to ([b]the non-existant[/b]) soul after we die. Doh! [/quote] Let me ask this: Are you asserting that the soul does not transmogrify upon death, or that the soul, in itself, does not exist, when discussed as an emergent quality resulting from some combination of living biology and Reason? I'm reading it thus far as the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steggyD Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 It sounds to me as if Squirrl is certain that there is no soul, yet at the same time claiming that no one knows what happens when we die. (except him, of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 I hate stupidity, not religion...its just that most of religion is stupidity. No soul whatsoever. Don't know what happens after we die, I just make the least assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 Muslims like Obama are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 [quote name='sois' date='14 January 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1263500586' post='857173'] Muslims like Obama are cool. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 [quote name='Jamie_B' date='14 January 2010 - 01:47 PM' timestamp='1263505630' post='857193'] [/quote] Sois' dry wit is a bit hard to discern in written form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 IKOTA is Muslim, and a "real regular American guy" AND a Bengals fan! Maybe he will chime in. Don't ask for Rumble's opinion though, he's a heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted January 14, 2010 Report Share Posted January 14, 2010 [quote name='Bunghole' date='14 January 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1263508451' post='857200'] IKOTA is Muslim, and a "real regular American guy" AND a Bengals fan! Maybe he will chime in. Don't ask for Rumble's opinion though, he's a heretic. [/quote] I thought the proper term was "apostate"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Jason, although they say that no question is a stupid question............yours is pretty damn close.... J/K Anyways, I think CTBengal Fan has given you some reading material for what you ask. On your question of "What's in it for women"......well, as Islam grants women more rights than it does to men (hard to believe huh?)it also grants them as much equality in the afterlife. "Paradise" is for a woman as it would be for a man.....it's whatever they want it to be essentially. If a man gets the most beautiful of women as companions then a woman gets the male version. I did the companion comparison as it seems as if your question is focused on that aspect of paradise. As for the 72 virgins......that's a myth......created for the sake of ridiculing Islam and Muslims in general. It's the popular thing to do these days and provides for punch lines aimed at the ignorant. Especially the part about suicide as Islam without a doubt forbids suicide and the killing of noncombatants. Jason, I take you as a fairly intelligent guy ........ do some reading into Islam if for nothing else than to better your understanding of what over 1 Billion people in the world believe in. The same people who are your neighbors, doctors, schoolteachers etc.... Read the Quran and the authentic Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet, that can be traced to chain of narration; based on strict guidelines). Broaden your knowledge. Hope that helps......if you have any follow up questions.....feel free to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 [quote name='GoBengals' date='20 January 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1264029254' post='858616'] [/quote] Yeah, no shit. Now the damn FBI, CIA and Homeland Security are all interested in our website. Stupid "Muslim" keyword searches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sois Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I want to smoke a J with a muslim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 [quote name='sois' date='20 January 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1264030419' post='858628'] I want to smoke a J with a muslim [/quote] I have, and a hookah as well. Amazingly, it was [i]extremely[/i] similar to getting high with a regular, normal person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 [quote name='GoBengals' date='20 January 2010 - 06:14 PM' timestamp='1264029254' post='858616'] [/quote] yeah, there is no virgins in Denver asshole![quote name='sois' date='20 January 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1264030419' post='858628'] I want to smoke a J with a muslim [/quote] i wanna smoke a joint with a mexican, oh wait.....i have!111 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Elflocko| Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 [quote name='Rumble In the Jungle' date='20 January 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1264047215' post='858683'] yeah, there is no virgins in Denver asshole! [/quote] Sure there are. It's Las Vegas that's Muslim hell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bengal Migration| Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 [quote name='sois' date='21 January 2010 - 07:33 AM' timestamp='1264030419' post='858628'] I want to smoke a J with a muslim [/quote] I wish IKOTA and I had thought of that while we were in Amsterdam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 [quote name='Bengal Migration' date='24 January 2010 - 08:14 AM' timestamp='1264333463' post='859315'] I wish IKOTA and I had thought of that while we were in Amsterdam... [/quote] I wish we would have also gone to a falafel place by the name of Maoz......I would imagine those falafels would be delicious after a spliff. If only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John~Galt Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 [quote name='IKOTA' date='20 January 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1264026628' post='858602'] Jason, although they say that no question is a stupid question............yours is pretty damn close.... J/K Anyways, I think CTBengal Fan has given you some reading material for what you ask. On your question of "What's in it for women"......well, as Islam grants women more rights than it does to men (hard to believe huh?)it also grants them as much equality in the afterlife. "Paradise" is for a woman as it would be for a man.....it's whatever they want it to be essentially. If a man gets the most beautiful of women as companions then a woman gets the male version. I did the companion comparison as it seems as if your question is focused on that aspect of paradise. As for the 72 virgins......that's a myth......created for the sake of ridiculing Islam and Muslims in general. It's the popular thing to do these days and provides for punch lines aimed at the ignorant. Especially the part about suicide as Islam without a doubt forbids suicide and the killing of noncombatants. Jason, I take you as a fairly intelligent guy ........ do some reading into Islam if for nothing else than to better your understanding of what over 1 Billion people in the world believe in. The same people who are your neighbors, doctors, schoolteachers etc.... Read the Quran and the authentic Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet, that can be traced to chain of narration; based on strict guidelines). Broaden your knowledge. Hope that helps......if you have any follow up questions.....feel free to ask. [/quote] Thanks for sharing. It seems there is a lot of misinformation out there. I do have one question. In light of what you shared with us here, how do you feel about things currently going on in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran? Women have zero political rights in a lot of traditionally muslim countries. Is this prevalent with certain sects or just bad politics by fundamentalists in charge of countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khatmandude Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 [quote name='John~Galt' date='08 February 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1265600212' post='862001'] Thanks for sharing. It seems there is a lot of misinformation out there. I do have one question. In light of what you shared with us here, how do you feel about things currently going on in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran? Women have zero political rights in a lot of traditionally muslim countries. Is this prevalent with certain sects or just bad politics by fundamentalists in charge of countries? [/quote] I don’t know about women having zero political rights but your point still stands. Im not, or won’t pretend to know the situation in those countries as to why things are the way they are. I do know that many times, it’s cultural traditions that allow for such (mis)treatment as opposed to any religious “justifications” as IMO there can be none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer_Rice Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 [url="http://www.alternet.org/story/57001/"]"They're out there, and they're coming."[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrlnutz Posted February 8, 2010 Report Share Posted February 8, 2010 [quote name='IKOTA' date='20 January 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1264026628' post='858602'] Jason, although they say that no question is a stupid question............yours is pretty damn close.... J/K Anyways, I think CTBengal Fan has given you some reading material for what you ask. On your question of "What's in it for women"......well, as Islam grants women more rights than it does to men (hard to believe huh?)it also grants them as much equality in the afterlife. "Paradise" is for a woman as it would be for a man.....it's whatever they want it to be essentially. If a man gets the most beautiful of women as companions then a woman gets the male version. I did the companion comparison as it seems as if your question is focused on that aspect of paradise. [b]As for the 72 virgins......that's a myth......created for the sake of ridiculing Islam and Muslims in general. It's the popular thing to do these days and provides for punch lines aimed at the ignorant. Especially the part about suicide as Islam without a doubt forbids suicide and the killing of noncombatants. [/b] Jason, I take you as a fairly intelligent guy ........ do some reading into Islam if for nothing else than to better your understanding of what over 1 Billion people in the world believe in. The same people who are your neighbors, doctors, schoolteachers etc.... Read the Quran and the authentic Hadiths (sayings of the Prophet, that can be traced to chain of narration; based on strict guidelines). Broaden your knowledge. Hope that helps......if you have any follow up questions.....feel free to ask. [/quote] I have a real hard time believing that there is no literal basis for the 72 virgins thing or the killing of non-combatants. I have never read the Quran but my simplistic understanding is that there is a large divide amongst groups of Muslims on what writings are actually considered the "Quran." Do you mean to say that never once, anywhere in any verse of any Hadith or other writing that could possibly be considerd part of the Quran, is there a mention of any amount of virgins in the afterlife given to one who dies in defense of Islam? Or that the ones [b]you[/b] subscribe too don't mention it? Because there is a large number of people who willingly strap bombs to their chest and detonate them outside schools who disagree with you...and frankly their opinion of what the holy book actually says (regardless of accuracy) weighs a lot more than yours. If only the world just took a step back for a couple of hours to critically analyze their holy texts. Think out loud: 1. What is the probability that 1000-2000 years ago the most supreme being in the cosmos chose one, or more, oppressed nomadic goat herders in the desert to deliver his message of hope and peace to the world, deciding only to do this after 100,000+ years of 75% infant mortality rates and unseen diseases that ravaged populations and left us with an age expectancy less than 30? Oh and why wouldn't IT bother to tell China...do they not matter, shouldn't they have gotten the message too? 2. Given what we know about how imperfect people are, what is the likelyhood that the chosen even wrote the message down properly? 3. Have you ever played the game telephone where you sit in a circle and jerk...err whisper a message in somenes ear who in turn whispers in the next persons ear all the way around the circle only to find out that the message has changed by the time it reaches the person who created it? What is the likelyhood that through hundreds of millions of translations over the course of a thousand years or more that the original message is still intact and not replaced by the predjudices and desires of the fallible men who re-wrote them? No one in the world can honestly answer these questions and still believe there is anything divine in any holy book. In fact I believe most know that this is the case and won't even bother honestly ask themselves these questions. Your holy books are anything but holy. They are a snap shot in time of the oral histories of cultures at the beginning of human civilization. Their moral lessons hold no more weight than Aesop's or Shakespeare's. Once these opressive, hate-filled volumes are properly viewed we can begin to have a real discussion about what it means to be human and how we must act accordingly. Until then, anyone can derive anything from any of the holy books and subsequently tell the ignorant that this is a message of God. The better the sales person the more radical the message they can deliver. And [b]you[/b] believers, those who are certain that somewhere in one of these texts there is the voice of god giving us something we could never conclude on our own, can't say a fucking thing about the crazies who conclude the most ignorant of shit because you use the same method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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