Bengals should reconsider Palmer stance with Dalton in mix

[oldschooler]

[size="5"][b]Bengals should reconsider Palmer stance with Dalton in mix[/b]
[/size]

By Pat Kirwan NFL.com

Senior Analyst

Published: May 3, 2011 at 02:22 p.m.

The [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"][color="#364c88"]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/url] identified their quarterback situation by [url="http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d81f9cf9e"][color="#364c88"]drafting TCU's Andy Dalton[/color][/url] with the 35th overall pick in the draft. With that move, everyone seems to conclude [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/carsonpalmer/profile?id=PAL249055"][color="#364c88"]Carson Palmer[/color][/url] is done in Cincinnati.


While Palmer has insisted he wants to be traded, saying he'd rather retire than return to Cincinnati, people working for the Bengals believe owner Mike Brown feels Palmer is coming back to lead the team in 2011 or will retire. There doesn't seem to be any notion that Brown will entertain a trade, even if the compensation is outstanding. The Brown family has handled the situation well so far, being non-confrontational. However, when the lockout is lifted, they will get calls about Palmer.

If the Eagles really have an offer of a first-round pick for [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/kevinkolb/profile?id=KOL105037"][color="#364c88"]Kevin Kolb[/color][/url], who had seven touchdowns and seven interceptions last season, then what is Palmer worth? Granted, Palmer's five years older at 31, but he had 26 touchdowns to 20 interceptions in 2010.

If Brown is willing to take the call, he will get a 2012 first-round pick and a veteran player for Palmer. Some might think Brown will ignore the offers, but if he does, that's when coach Marvin Lewis has to go in his office and suggest that it's time to let Palmer go.

When I was with the Jets, we made a trade with the Bengals for Boomer Esiason in 1993. This is fast becoming the same situation. Can Palmer really play for the Bengals again? It could be best for all involved to turn this Bengal team over to Dalton.







[url="http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81fa7ba7/article/bengals-should-reconsider-palmer-stance-with-dalton-in-mix"]http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81fa7ba7/article/bengals-should-reconsider-palmer-stance-with-dalton-in-mix[/url]

[texbengal]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304508798' post='990732']
[size="5"][b]Bengals should reconsider Palmer stance with Dalton in mix[/b]
[/size]

By Pat Kirwan NFL.com

Senior Analyst

Published: May 3, 2011 at 02:22 p.m.

The [url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/profile?team=CIN"][color="#364c88"]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/url] identified their quarterback situation by [url="http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d81f9cf9e"][color="#364c88"]drafting TCU's Andy Dalton[/color][/url] with the 35th overall pick in the draft. With that move, everyone seems to conclude [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/carsonpalmer/profile?id=PAL249055"][color="#364c88"]Carson Palmer[/color][/url] is done in Cincinnati.


While Palmer has insisted he wants to be traded, saying he'd rather retire than return to Cincinnati, people working for the Bengals believe owner Mike Brown feels Palmer is coming back to lead the team in 2011 or will retire. There doesn't seem to be any notion that Brown will entertain a trade, even if the compensation is outstanding. The Brown family has handled the situation well so far, being non-confrontational. However, when the lockout is lifted, they will get calls about Palmer.

If the Eagles really have an offer of a first-round pick for [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/kevinkolb/profile?id=KOL105037"][color="#364c88"]Kevin Kolb[/color][/url], who had seven touchdowns and seven interceptions last season, then what is Palmer worth? Granted, Palmer's five years older at 31, but he had 26 touchdowns to 20 interceptions in 2010.

If Brown is willing to take the call, he will get a 2012 first-round pick and a veteran player for Palmer. Some might think Brown will ignore the offers, but if he does, that's when coach Marvin Lewis has to go in his office and suggest that it's time to let Palmer go.

When I was with the Jets, we made a trade with the Bengals for Boomer Esiason in 1993. This is fast becoming the same situation. Can Palmer really play for the Bengals again? It could be best for all involved to turn this Bengal team over to Dalton.







[url="http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81fa7ba7/article/bengals-should-reconsider-palmer-stance-with-dalton-in-mix"]http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81fa7ba7/article/bengals-should-reconsider-palmer-stance-with-dalton-in-mix[/url]
[/quote]

It's all conjecture at this point. Depending on what the Bengals are offered, I'd consider it, and sign a veteran QB as insurance/as a stop-gap starter if Dalton isn't ready. The longer this lockout goes, the worse it is for Dalton, and the more acute the need is to sign a veteran QB, a la Hasselbeck, or Matt Moore of Carolina, who I think is a pretty decent player.

[oldschooler]

[b]Carson Palmer Best Fit For Cardinals According To Kurt Warner[/b]
May 03 10:23a by [url="http://arizona.sbnation.com/authors/seth-pollack"][b][color="#222222"]Seth Pollack[/color][/b][/url]

If anyone is qualified to comment on which of the available quarterbacks would be the best fit for the Arizona Cardinals, it's Kurt Warner. He knows the offense and knows who's going to fit best with Ken Whisenhunt. Warner was a guest on [url="http://www.danpatrick.com/"][b][color="#a82a00"]Dan Patrick's radio show[/color][/b][/url] on Tuesday morning and put his golden blessing on Carson Palmer.

Warner is a now an analyst with the NFL Network and shared his thoughts on Cam Newton, the NFL Draft in general and reported that Whisenhunt had asked his opinion on the Cardinals quarterback situation.

"I would take Carson," Warner said, adding that he would fit the Cardinals offense perfectly.

Palmer is in a pickle with his situation in Cincinnati. Palmer has said that he doesn't want to play for the Bengals but the Bengals have said they aren't trading him. Eventually, this impasse will pass just like the NFL lockout will be lifted. There will be football at some point and somewhere down the line Carson Palmer will be playing for a team outside of Cincinnati.





[url="http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/5/3/2151500/carson-palmer-best-fit-for-cardinals-according-to-kurt-warner"]http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/5/3/2151500/carson-palmer-best-fit-for-cardinals-according-to-kurt-warner[/url]

[texbengal]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304510374' post='990741']
[b]Carson Palmer Best Fit For Cardinals According To Kurt Warner[/b]
May 03 10:23a by [url="http://arizona.sbnation.com/authors/seth-pollack"][b][color="#222222"]Seth Pollack[/color][/b][/url]

If anyone is qualified to comment on which of the available quarterbacks would be the best fit for the Arizona Cardinals, it's Kurt Warner. He knows the offense and knows who's going to fit best with Ken Whisenhunt. Warner was a guest on [url="http://www.danpatrick.com/"][b][color="#a82a00"]Dan Patrick's radio show[/color][/b][/url] on Tuesday morning and put his golden blessing on Carson Palmer.

Warner is a now an analyst with the NFL Network and shared his thoughts on Cam Newton, the NFL Draft in general and reported that Whisenhunt had asked his opinion on the Cardinals quarterback situation.

"I would take Carson," Warner said, adding that he would fit the Cardinals offense perfectly.

Palmer is in a pickle with his situation in Cincinnati. Palmer has said that he doesn't want to play for the Bengals but the Bengals have said they aren't trading him. Eventually, this impasse will pass just like the NFL lockout will be lifted. There will be football at some point and somewhere down the line Carson Palmer will be playing for a team outside of Cincinnati.





[url="http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/5/3/2151500/carson-palmer-best-fit-for-cardinals-according-to-kurt-warner"]http://arizona.sbnation.com/arizona-cardinals/2011/5/3/2151500/carson-palmer-best-fit-for-cardinals-according-to-kurt-warner[/url]
[/quote]


Ex-GM Charlie Casserly didn't hesitate when they asked him who, of the vet QBs that might be available after the lockout, he'd target. He said Palmer, and indicated that depending on where his team was, if QB was the big need, he'd contact Mike Brown and offer up a #1 pick for him.

[bwh]

[quote name='texbengal' timestamp='1304510561' post='990743']
Ex-GM Charlie Casserly didn't hesitate when they asked him who, of the vet QBs that might be available after the lockout, he'd target. He said Palmer, and indicated that depending on where his team was, if QB was the big need, he'd contact Mike Brown and offer up a #1 pick for him.
[/quote]

I think that its time to trade Chad and Carson and move forward with the Dalton/Green era. If the Bengals could actually get a first round pick and a player for Palmer,as Kirwan writes,that would be good for the Bengals. Maybe they could get a veteran for the O-line who could help there or even a safety. Then the two 21012 first round picks could be used to address two more areas of need a year from now.If Palmer is allowed to sit out the 2011 season then the Bengals end up getting no use out of him.Palmer,himself ,would not be helping the Bengals,and the Bengals would not be getting somoene in exchanege for Palmer who could help.

[turningpoint]

Imagine if we trade cardon, chad, and cut to's contract off the books.

There's no excuse to not resign Hall and joseph immediately.

[Orange 'n Black]

[quote name='turningpoint' timestamp='1304520167' post='990798']
Imagine if we trade cardon, chad, and cut to's contract off the books.

There's no excuse to not resign Hall and joseph immediately.
[/quote]

TO was on a one-year deal; Carson's cap number will go away if he really retires; Chad already has one foot out the door. I agree, there's no financial reason JJoe shouldn't be back in the fold. If we lose him anyway they'd better call up Leon's agent stat.

[TheBeaverHunter]

I want Dalton to start from day one. Remember pain don't hurt.

[img]http://kaispace.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/roadhouse.jpg[/img]

[eva4ben-gal]

I'd see if I could trade Carson and Chad to Seattle for Seattle's 2012 1st rounder, 2012 3rd rounder and Max Unger

[fredtoast]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304508798' post='990732']

If the Eagles really have an offer of a first-round pick for [url="http://www.nfl.com/players/kevinkolb/profile?id=KOL105037"][color="#364c88"]Kevin Kolb[/color][/url], who had seven touchdowns and seven interceptions last season, then what is Palmer worth?
[/quote]

One of the main reasons that so many teams are hot to trade for Kolb is the fact that he will only make $1.4 million next year. Carson is due over $12 million.

So even if Carson is the better QB Kolb's contract could make him more attractive to teams. You can't even sign a decent back up QB for $1.4 million.

Although I assume that any team that trades for Kolb would try to work out a long term extension.

[fredtoast]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1304525917' post='990814']
I'd see if I could trade Carson and Chad to Seattle for Seattle's 2012 1st rounder, 2012 3rd rounder and Max Unger
[/quote]

Chad and a draft pick to the Pats for Logan Mankins.

Mankins is only 29, and he is very upset with the Pats. If they can't work out a long term deal for him (he is on a one-year franchise tag deal) they will trade him. They need a top WR and they love draft picks. I think it could happen.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='fredtoast' timestamp='1304527186' post='990821']
Chad and a draft pick to the Pats for Logan Mankins.

Mankins is only 29, and he is very upset with the Pats. If they can't work out a long term deal for him (he is on a one-year franchise tag deal) they will trade him. They need a top WR and they love draft picks. I think it could happen.
[/quote]


I would LOVE to do this. Chad and our 4th next year.

[Cricket]

[quote name='eva4ben-gal' timestamp='1304525917' post='990814']
I'd see if I could trade Carson and Chad to Seattle for Seattle's 2012 1st rounder, 2012 3rd rounder and Max Unger
[/quote]

We could maybe trade Carson for their 1st round pick...or Chad for their 2nd round pick...



...but if we trade BOTH, it's only be worth a 7th round pick.

[NYbengals]

[quote name='Orange 'n Black' timestamp='1304520849' post='990802']
TO was on a one-year deal; [b]Carson's cap number will go away if he really retires[/b]; Chad already has one foot out the door. I agree, there's no financial reason JJoe shouldn't be back in the fold. If we lose him anyway they'd better call up Leon's agent stat.
[/quote]

How i understand it is the bengals would still need to leave space for carson's salary under the cap. If they spent up to the cap (or even ten mil under), carson could come out of retirement at any time and screw the team financially. Thus forcing a trade for cap space reasons.

[Abu-Zayd]

I believe they will end up trading Carson and Chad. Chad will be in NY or NE and Carson in Seattle or Arizona. Someone will come calling with a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder, and Mike Brown will approve it. 1st and 3rd will get it done, and for a team on the cusp, missing just a solid QB for the next 3-5 years, its worth it.

[Orange 'n Black]

[quote name='NYbengals' timestamp='1304567446' post='990965']
How i understand it is the bengals would still need to leave space for carson's salary under the cap. If they spent up to the cap (or even ten mil under), carson could come out of retirement at any time and screw the team financially. Thus forcing a trade for cap space reasons.
[/quote]

I forgot about that technicality. Would Carson go that far though? I don't think he's particularly passionate about continuing to play - he's more interested in not playing in Cincinnati.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='NYbengals' timestamp='1304567446' post='990965']
How i understand it is the bengals would still need to leave space for carson's salary under the cap. If they spent up to the cap (or even ten mil under), carson could come out of retirement at any time and screw the team financially. Thus forcing a trade for cap space reasons.
[/quote]


The 2009 Salary cap was [b]$127,000,000[/b]
The Bengals 2010 payroll was $101,210,864.

If the cap is anywhere close to where it was, I don't there'll be any issues.

Plus they could cut or trade Chad and free up $6 million.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304616200' post='991034']
The 2009 Salary cap was [b]$127,000,000[/b]
The Bengals 2010 payroll was $101,210,864.

If the cap is anywhere close to where it was, I don't there'll be any issues.

Plus they could cut or trade Chad and free up $6 million.
[/quote]


not to mention Mike Brown would probably gladly take the financial hit if Carson (his favorite Bengal ever) decides to come back to the team and play.

[bengaled]

[quote name='NYbengals' timestamp='1304567446' post='990965']
How i understand it is the bengals would still need to leave space for carson's salary under the cap. If they spent up to the cap (or even ten mil under), carson could come out of retirement at any time and screw the team financially. Thus forcing a trade for cap space reasons.
[/quote]

if there is a cap. the way i understand it, if they extend last years rules, which had no cap in place, that maneuver (by carson) couldn't happen.

[sparky151]

[quote name='NYbengals' timestamp='1304567446' post='990965']
How i understand it is the bengals would still need to leave space for carson's salary under the cap. If they spent up to the cap (or even ten mil under), carson could come out of retirement at any time and screw the team financially. Thus forcing a trade for cap space reasons.
[/quote]

Not really a problem. The Bengals were way under where the cap would have been in 2010 and even if they had less than 11 mil in cap space they get 24 hours to rectify things. A restructuring or two would fix it.

[oldschooler]

Carson Palmer: I told you in mid March that Dolphins sources were telling me he would be their No. 1 option if he becomes available and at the right time. The Cincinnati Bengals own his rights. He hates the idea of going back to Cincy to a degree that he's promised to retire if he's not traded. The Bengals have said they will not trade him, but they also have obviously moved on -- picking Andy Dalton in the second round of last week's draft. So perhaps the Bengals stick to their word. And perhaps they try to get something for Palmer. It could be nothing. It could be everything! If the Bengals put Palmer on the market, I report to you the Dolphins will be in line to get him. But even if that happens, other teams might also be in line, including Seattle and Arizona. Palmer has stated he'd like to play on the west coast. Seattle coach Pete Carroll coached him at USC. One small bit of trivia: Palmer's agent was also Dan Marino's agent back in the day. Don't know what that means, or if its too much information but I want to share as much with you as possible.

Read more: [url="http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/05/carson-palmer-i-told-you-in-mid-march-that-dolphins-sources-were-telling-me-he-would-be-their-no-1-option-if-he-becomes-ava.html#ixzz1LWlBeqNw"]http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/05/carson-palmer-i-told-you-in-mid-march-that-dolphins-sources-were-telling-me-he-would-be-their-no-1-option-if-he-becomes-ava.html#ixzz1LWlBeqNw[/url]

[oldschooler]

Bengals.com's Geoff Hobson believes the team could wait until next year to deal Carson Palmer because of a possible change in draft rules.If rookie salaries end up restructured, an early-first rounder would carry far more value. As it stands now, the Bengals wouldn't get any return on Palmer until next April anyway. Citing league sources, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported last Friday that owner Mike Brown will now consider trading Palmer if the deal is "favorable." There is some precedent in Cincinnati, but it's not promising for Seattle or Miami. Back in 1992, Brown agreed to trade Boomer Esiason if he came back and played one more year, allowing David Klingler to be eased in as the face of the franchise.



May 4, 12:17 PM

[b]

Source:[/b] [url="http://blogs.bengals.com/2011/05/02/five-takes-2/"]Bengals.com [/url]


[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2550/player?r=1"]http://www.rotoworld...2550/player?r=1[/url]

[sparky151]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304641997' post='991136']
Bengals.com's Geoff Hobson believes the team could wait until next year to deal Carson Palmer because of a possible change in draft rules.If rookie salaries end up restructured, an early-first rounder would carry far more value. As it stands now, the Bengals wouldn't get any return on Palmer until next April anyway. Citing league sources, ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported last Friday that owner Mike Brown will now consider trading Palmer if the deal is "favorable." There is some precedent in Cincinnati, but it's not promising for Seattle or Miami. Back in 1992, Brown agreed to trade Boomer Esiason if he came back and played one more year, allowing David Klingler to be eased in as the face of the franchise.



May 4, 12:17 PM

[b]

Source:[/b] [url="http://blogs.bengals.com/2011/05/02/five-takes-2/"]Bengals.com [/url]


[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2550/player?r=1"]http://www.rotoworld...2550/player?r=1[/url]
[/quote]

That's just dumb enough that Mike Brown would do it like that. Carson's trade value is highest before the 2011 season. He is arguably the best available option for the QB needy teams. Sure, you don't know what draft slot they'll be picking in but if you wait, you won't get a high first round pick for Carson anyway, especially if he sits out the year. The teams with high first round picks will be looking at the 2012 draft to fill their QB needs and have some hope to offer their fans. When the trade window opens, Mike Brown should spread the word that Carson is available and will be traded for an acceptable offer. Seattle, Arizona, Washington, and Miami are obvious candidates to trade for Carson. Maybe Oakland or even San Fran too.

[fluhartz]

[quote name='Cricket' timestamp='1304563706' post='990957']
We could maybe trade Carson for their 1st round pick...or Chad for their 2nd round pick...



...but if we trade BOTH, it's only be worth a 7th round pick.






[/quote]



truth....

[bengaled]

[quote name='sparky151' timestamp='1304738627' post='991442']
That's just dumb enough that Mike Brown would do it like that. Carson's trade value is highest before the 2011 season. He is arguably the best available option for the QB needy teams. Sure, you don't know what draft slot they'll be picking in but if you wait, you won't get a high first round pick for Carson anyway, especially if he sits out the year. The teams with high first round picks will be looking at the 2012 draft to fill their QB needs and have some hope to offer their fans. When the trade window opens, Mike Brown should spread the word that Carson is available and will be traded for an acceptable offer. Seattle, Arizona, Washington, and Miami are obvious candidates to trade for Carson. Maybe Oakland or even San Fran too.
[/quote]


quite so. your mindset is clearly more reasonable than the other one offered by hobson... not that that means one hill of beans to mike brown. if the bengals are looking at carson as a tradable commodity, his value would be at a peak before the next season starts. three factors play into that. 1. his skills will have diminished by sitting out a year. 2. next year appears to be a very good year for the QB position. 3. carson sits atop the available free agent QBs on the landscape going into this next year.

if mike has trading carson in his plans, whatsoever, this off season is the time to do it. waiting around till next year is only going to drop the guy's stock.