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2012 Draft What If


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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1304684269' post='991217']
IF the Bengals wind up picking #1 overall next year, and Luck comes out after a season worthy of being the #1 pick, should the Bengals take him?
[/quote]


depends on how dalton plays in 2011.


If Dalton plays well and lives up to the hype, I think you hold the #1 pick for a kings ransom.


Andrew Luck's an incredible prospect, but if a team offers their entire draft, the Bengals are better off taking the picks (provided they're comfortable with Dalton).


Now if they have doubts about Dalton, of course you take Luck. The beauty of taking Dalton in the 2nd round is that he's basically making backup QB money for the length of his contract.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1304684716' post='991219']
depends on how dalton plays in 2011.


[b]If Dalton plays well and lives up to the hype[/b], I think you hold the #1 pick for a kings ransom.


Andrew Luck's an incredible prospect, but if a team offers their entire draft, the Bengals are better off taking the picks (provided they're comfortable with Dalton).


Now if they have doubts about Dalton, of course you take Luck. The beauty of taking Dalton in the 2nd round is that he's basically making backup QB money for the length of his contract.
[/quote]

If that happens I don't see us picking #1 overall.

Especially as easy as our schedule looks right now.
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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1304684824' post='991220']
If that happens I don't see us picking #1 overall.

Especially as easy as our schedule looks right now.
[/quote]


I don't either, but hypothetically speaking it could. As you know, games aren't won and lost just by QB play.
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[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304685160' post='991224']
Trade out and get a boat load more picks than the Falcons gave up.
[/quote]

I think it will totally depend on our qb situation.

Luck is that once every 10 years qb, he's worth teams 2012 and 2013 nfl drafts.....
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exact thing just happened to Carolina with Clausen/Newton...
and Cam isn't half the prospect Luck is..

the only way I see us picking first is if Dalton sucks... it so take Luck
If Dalton is good and injuries or something else causes us to pick first... trade it for the kings ransom...

I hope Dalton is the man and we are nowhere near the top ten let alone top pick...
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Carson was supposedly a once a decade QB, but if the rest of the team can't support, can't overcome game time decisions, then it doesn't matter.

That said, however; the situation for the Bengals now and projected into next year is immeasurably better than coming off that 2-14 season. That was not a rebuilding year, that was a resurrection.



I agree with Jason, if Dalton plays well they are not picking first.



You trade the pick and get the best linemen available. The skill positions are pretty much set or addressed in FA.



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[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1304685160' post='991224']
Trade out and get a boat load more picks than the Falcons gave up.
[/quote]

What makes you ever think management would ever do that...they have passed time and time again on those type deals (dropping back a few picks and taking Chris Perry is not even close to passing on he Akili Smith, Chad, or AJ Green trades too)
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[quote name='ArmyBengal' timestamp='1304691186' post='991245']
Carson was supposedly a once a decade QB, but if the rest of the team can't support, can't overcome game time decisions, then it doesn't matter.
[/quote]
Carson doesn't have near the mobility Andy has, and probably not the same amount of accuracy coming out of college. Similar arms though.

And it only took Carson two years to get us to the playoffs, and who really knows what would have happened, had he not gotten hurt. He could have a super bowl ring now. If he hadn't racked up a knee problem, which undoubtedly made him a little less mobile and a pretty severe arm injury which made his fastball float a little more, he would still probably be an elite guy. In his prime, he was perfect for Bob's vertical system. Now he seems to be perfect for a more horizontal system.

Andrew is one of those QB's who don't come out too often. Peyton Manning like. You don't pass that up, no matter what's offered. All's you have to do is watch the guy. 70.0% completion in a pro-style offense, prototypical QB size, great mobility, being smarter than anyone on the team will be, already being the leader of the team, and a laser. If Cleveland got him, like in McShay's mock draft, we would be in for a long 12-16 years.

Nothing against Andy Dalton, but Andrew is a better QB in every facet of the game.
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[quote name='JC' timestamp='1304692028' post='991253']
Carson doesn't have near the mobility Andy has, and probably not the same amount of accuracy coming out of college. Similar arms though.

And it only took Carson two years to get us to the playoffs, and who really knows what would have happened, had he not gotten hurt. He could have a super bowl ring now. If he hadn't racked up a knee problem, which undoubtedly made him a little less mobile and a pretty severe arm injury which made his fastball float a little more, he would still probably be an elite guy. In his prime, he was perfect for Bob's vertical system. Now he seems to be perfect for a more horizontal system.

Andrew is one of those QB's who don't come out too often. Peyton Manning like. You don't pass that up, no matter what's offered. All's you have to do is watch the guy. 70.0% completion in a pro-style offense, prototypical QB size, great mobility, being smarter than anyone on the team will be, already being the leader of the team, and a laser. If Cleveland got him, like in McShay's mock draft, we would be in for a long 12-16 years.

Nothing against Andy Dalton, but Andrew is a better QB in every facet of the game.
[/quote]

agree with you on Luck....
What the others said are also true..
IF Dalton pans out to be worthyl of starting status you HAVE to see what type of package other teams will
offer for Luck...

Personally I dont think the Bengals are going to get the one pick...
I believe this team will surprise alot of folks...
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[quote name='JC' timestamp='1304692028' post='991253']
Carson doesn't have near the mobility Andy has, and probably not the same amount of accuracy coming out of college. Similar arms though.

And it only took Carson two years to get us to the playoffs, and who really knows what would have happened, had he not gotten hurt. He could have a super bowl ring now. If he hadn't racked up a knee problem, which undoubtedly made him a little less mobile and a pretty severe arm injury which made his fastball float a little more, he would still probably be an elite guy. In his prime, he was perfect for Bob's vertical system. Now he seems to be perfect for a more horizontal system.

Andrew is one of those QB's who don't come out too often. Peyton Manning like. You don't pass that up, no matter what's offered. All's you have to do is watch the guy. 70.0% completion in a pro-style offense, prototypical QB size, great mobility, being smarter than anyone on the team will be, already being the leader of the team, and a laser. If Cleveland got him, like in McShay's mock draft, we would be in for a long 12-16 years.

Nothing against Andy Dalton, but Andrew is a better QB in every facet of the game.
[/quote]

I can't take any QB that ends up in Cleveland seriously. I would feel genuinely sorry for Andrew Luck, because he has the potential to be among the GOAT. However, if he really got picked by the Stains, he would probably die of a massive staph infection after taking 70 sacks and tearing both ACLs.
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[quote name='JC' timestamp='1304692028' post='991253']
[b]Carson doesn't have near the mobility Andy has, and probably not the same amount of accuracy coming out of college. Similar arms though.[/b]

And it only took Carson two years to get us to the playoffs, and who really knows what would have happened, had he not gotten hurt. He could have a super bowl ring now. If he hadn't racked up a knee problem, which undoubtedly made him a little less mobile and a pretty severe arm injury which made his fastball float a little more, he would still probably be an elite guy. In his prime, he was perfect for Bob's vertical system. Now he seems to be perfect for a more horizontal system.

Andrew is one of those QB's who don't come out too often. Peyton Manning like. You don't pass that up, no matter what's offered. All's you have to do is watch the guy. 70.0% completion in a pro-style offense, prototypical QB size, great mobility, being smarter than anyone on the team will be, already being the leader of the team, and a laser. If Cleveland got him, like in McShay's mock draft, we would be in for a long 12-16 years.

Nothing against Andy Dalton, but Andrew is a better QB in every facet of the game.
[/quote]

Huh?

Carson had (and still has) a much stronger arm. Carson ran a 4.6 at the combine, and showed in 2009 his mobility is returning. And there's a reason he was called the human juggs machine. His accuracy coming out of college was every bit as good.
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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1304700499' post='991317']
Huh?

Carson had (and still has) a much stronger arm. Carson ran a 4.6 at the combine, and showed in 2009 his mobility is returning. And there's a reason he was called the human juggs machine. His accuracy coming out of college was every bit as good.
[/quote]
No.

Carson ran for -122 yards in college. I don't care that he ran a 4.65 at the combine. Andy Luck could run a 5.37 and still be more mobile and a better runner. He had 3 50 yard runs this past year and a 8.8 or something ypc.

Andy Luck had a 70.7% completion percentage last year. Carson came out of college his senior year with a 63.2% completion percentage. Argue it all you want, Andrew is going to be a much more accurate passer coming out, with a higher YPA. Maybe not the same arm strength, but Andrew can still fling it. Andrew is a better prospect coming out of college than Carson was. I fully expect the guy to have an astronomical season and be the first pick no matter what next year.
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As others have mentioned, this is pretty much a no brainer. If this team is so bad with Dalton at the helm that they only win 1 or 2 games, you have to take Luck who is considered an amazing QB prospect.

The more interesting question is this: What if the Bengals go like 5-11 or so and are sitting there picking 5th or 6th and the #2 QB in the draft (Matt Barkley or Landry Jones, for example) is there for the taking?

To me, that is where the Bengals could potentially end up in a real quandary. If Dalton shows some good things but also shows that his arm is below average. If it looks like best case scenario is that he's a Chad Pennington-type. If QB isn't necessarily your biggest need, but you are below average at the position. That is where I think things could get interesting.
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[quote name='JC' timestamp='1304701319' post='991318']
No.

Carson ran for -122 yards in college. I don't care that he ran a 4.65 at the combine. Andy Luck could run a 5.37 and still be more mobile and a better runner. He had 3 50 yard runs this past year and a 8.8 or something ypc.

Andy Luck had a 70.7% completion percentage last year. Carson came out of college his senior year with a 63.2% completion percentage. Argue it all you want, Andrew is going to be a much more accurate passer coming out, with a higher YPA. Maybe not the same arm strength, but Andrew can still fling it. Andrew is a better prospect coming out of college than Carson was. I fully expect the guy to have an astronomical season and be the first pick no matter what next year.
[/quote]

Oh, you were talking Luck, I was thinking Dalton. Luck goes by Andrew, Dalton goes by Andy.
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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1304684269' post='991217']
IF the Bengals wind up picking #1 overall next year, and Luck comes out after a season worthy of being the #1 pick, should the Bengals take him?
[/quote]
I think that if the Bengals pick #1 in 2012 ,they should draft Andrew Luck. Then,maybe they could turn around and trade Andy Dalton for a high draft choice(s).
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What if Andrew Luck isn't the #1 prospect next year? What if he has a Jake-Locker-2010 season in 2011? What if some DE ends up with 27 sacks next year?

Only chance we take Luck is if this season was so disaterous ML gets fired and then it might be warranted.

On the off chance we move CP for a 1st rounder, and that ends up being the #1 over-all pick and we have good year, we hold an auction for that pick and send it to the highest bidder or we take the best player that is not Luck.
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[quote name='Jason' timestamp='1304684269' post='991217']
IF the Bengals wind up picking #1 overall next year, and Luck comes out after a season worthy of being the #1 pick, should the Bengals take him?
[/quote]


of course. too much upside.
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If the Bengals play poorly enough this coming season to have the top pick, then certainly they should take Luck. I think it's possible Luck will have a lesser season in 2011 than in 2010 with a new coaching staff. He'd probably still be the top pick however.

If Dalton is the starter all year, we will probably have a losing record. Our run defense should be at least average, maybe better. Our pass defense will probably be below average due to a lack of pass rush. We still haven't fixed the interior of the offensive line. It's possible we lose Joseph and Benson. Basically there's as much downside as upside at this point with the upcoming season. I hope we get a starting SS, a vet QB, and an OG in free agency. Trade Carson and Chad. Clean out the other dead wood on the roster. Play to win every game until eliminated from playoff contention. Then semi-tank it for draft position.

We open on the road at Cleveland in the battle to stay out of the cellar. If Dalton is starting game one as a rookie, Cleveland might very well win that. If Dalton plays well and the Bengals win, then Colt McCoy will have to deal with the threat of Luck.
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