Bengals Win Big In TV Ratings Again (Why do fans go to NFL games?)

[oldschooler]

[quote name='bengalsfansince68' timestamp='1314057133' post='1019449']
U R making a huge deal out of not much. By that definition most every fanbase in the league is poisoned, bandwagon non-fans. If throwing away your money to an owner who won't put any of it into the product we buy is required to be considered a fan than I'll happily wear the moniker of poisoned...
but boy is this fucking stupid.
[/quote]


I'm not making a big deal out of it at all. Just stating my opinion.

Every team does have bandwagon fans. But every team's fanbase isn't poisoned.
C'mon. You're obviously taking it personal. It shit doesn't appy, then don't appy it.

I don't know how anyone can even dispute the fanbase being poisoned though.
Go ahead and blame Mike Brown. I don't care. But I am talking about the
definition of poisoned that means To pollute, to have a harmful influence on,
corrupted. Shit like that. You yourself are demostrating exactly what I am talking about.
That is a reason the games don't sell out. And another reason is Cincinnati is full of
bandwagon fans.

That's not a knock on anyone here. It just is what it is.

[scharm]

The fan base is poisoned. I think Cincinnati in general is bandwagonish as a whole. It's not a huge market or fanbase so it sticks out more.

I'm not saying it as a negative at all. There's plenty of justification for sports fans in Cincinnati not to give their money and time to the Brown family.

However if you go to other NFL cities, IMO it's a different vibe from the Bengal fans that go on road trips and a different vibe from that group of home fans. It's like that city actually likes their team.

[scharm]

However, this thread is funny considering I offered my tickets and free playoff ticket to Old and he didn't bite.

Old couldn't do it for good reasons. There's plenty of good reasons why people aren't going to buy enough tickets to sell it out unless winning occurs.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1314060620' post='1019508']
The fan base is poisoned. I think Cincinnati in general is bandwagonish as a whole. It's not a huge market or fanbase so it sticks out more.

I'm not saying it as a negative at all. There's plenty of justification for sports fans in Cincinnati not to give their money and time to the Brown family.

However if you go to other NFL cities, IMO it's a different vibe from the Bengal fans that go on road trips and a different vibe from that group of home fans. It's like that city actually likes their team.
[/quote]



This is kind of how I feel. Mike Brown certainly isn't blameless, but he also takes shit for some things he shouldn't. My favorite example is always this one: One year Mike Brown donated a pile of money to some local charity. Fans ripped Brown for not spending the money on the team.


And yes, the fan base is poisoned. Terribly so. Some of it is justified, some of it is people taking things far too seriously.

[oldschooler]

[b] Doc: Why do you go to NFL games?[/b]

[b] Has television gotten too good for the league's good?[/b]



Fans never say die.

Fans sweat and freeze and sit in traffic to pay $30 to park. Fans pony up the rent money for seat licenses and the grocery money for two on the 50. They cram their vehicles with grills and footballs and coolers and TVs and satellite dishes and enough food to feed an apartment complex.

Fans risk their well-being to wear jerseys of the enemy team. In San Francisco, that can get you shot and beaten unconscious. Dads take children to NFL games, so the kids can bond, yell, scream and learn new ways to describe the male anatomy. Fans endure.
How come?

Has the time passed when going to an NFL game is a good idea?

Has television -- the NFL’s golden goose, its sugar daddy, the reason it is the undisputed king of the sporting forest – gotten too good for the league’s good?

At Alamo Electronics in Montgomery, a 64-inch plasma TV that is 3D ready costs $2,200. That’s down “five or six hundred bucks’’ from last year at this time, says Alamo sales consultant Randy Senger. Electronics almost always decline in price. Unlike NFL tickets.

It should be noted that two season tickets in the Canopy Level at PBS will cost you $1,500 or so, not including the seat license. My man Wags, diehard Bengals guy, sits in Section 340. He estimates that tickets, parking, food, drink and a couple jerseys will set him back $2,500 this fall. That’s a 3D TV and a couple pairs of those goofy glasses.

If you have not test-driven a 3D TV, you should. Watching a football game in three dimensions is like inviting Andre Smith into your living room, only you don’t have to feed him. And we won’t even talk about the cheerleader shots.

Of course, the number of NFL games in 3D is limited; a few years ago, we said the same about high definition. Now, who can stand to watch any sporting event in standard-def?

Once 3D goes mainstream, what is the incentive to actually attend a game?

The shared experience of a sports high is like no other. Everyone wished he’d been at GASP when Jay Bruce hit the homer that beat the Astros that clinched the NL Central for the Reds last year. Each of us claims direct viewing ownership of the Freezer Bowl.

Nothing tops Being There in moments like that.

How many moments are like that?

Are they worth all the other moments?

We’re not just talking Bengal Moments which, over the last two decades, have come to mean something entirely different. They are tragicomic, not uplifting. No, we’re referencing any team’s best moments. Is the thrill of victory, up close and personal, still worth the outlay in time and money required to earn it?

Let’s weigh the sides:

[b]At the game: [/b]The cost to park, sit, eat and drink. Lines for food, drink and restroom. The sweat/freeze potential in every month save the occasionally gracious October. The chance your 10-year-old at his first NFL game will be sideswiped by a two-beer drunk dropping F-bombs like ticker tape on V-J Day. Heaven help the kid (or anyone else) if he goes to the restroom wearing a Steelers jersey.

What occurred last weekend at Candlestick Park isn’t representative, obviously. But that it occurred – an alcohol-fueled mega-brawl resulting in two people shot and another beaten severely – means it’s always possible. Especially at an NFL game.

[b]On the other hand, at home: [/b]Climate control. No cost to park, sit, eat and drink. Bathroom and fridge, equidistant. A remote control for the 50-inch flamethrower, for when disgust kicks in. Wear whatever you like. Or nothing at all. No one will punch you.

Why does anyone go?

I’m not suggesting you should or you shouldn’t. I’m just wondering why you do.


(Click the link for the entire article)



[url="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110823/COL03/308230099/Doc-Why-do-you-go-NFL-games-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text"]http://news.cincinna...ab|topnews|text[/url]|

[ickeyshuffler]

There is nothing better than live football. I go to an around 12 games a year and will never stop.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='whodey24k' timestamp='1314192102' post='1020318']
There is nothing better than live football. I go to an around 12 games a year and will never stop.
[/quote]


I prefer watching at home and seeing all the angles, replays, and of course the cost effectiveness. I'd like to be able to go to 1-2 games a year for the atmosphere (tomorrow will actually be my first game since the 2008 season), but I like the flexibility that the tv viewing experience offers, and the view is just as good as the real thing with today's technology.

[scharm]

Your favorite band sounds better on your ipod than it does at a live concert.

You can gamble in the comfort of your own home vs. Casino/Horse Track.

You buy a whole bunch of stuff at home vs. going to the mall.

Can cook meals alot cheaper vs. going out to eat.

On and on and on.

Of course his example can be applied to any sport or activitiy. The people that go, do it because they enjoy it.

To the specific question. NFL makes it easy, first. Games are played when most are off work. Typically it works out to be a twice a month deal August through December. Football in general has always been a more social event from Pee-Wee up through the Pros. Tailgate, pre and post game stuff. That's huge. It is a gathering of family and friends.

Then there is something that just can't be duplicated which is the emotion of the game.


Eventhough I think Paul is anti NFL. He does have a small point would I want to go to every game week after week for 16 weeks? Probably not. The NFL with it's formula allows a fan to enjoy their live experience and also enjoy the "man cave" as well. The NFL has done a great job over the years of not watering down it's product and keeping a real sense of urgency with each game.


The one weakness I see in the NFL is Instant Replay and a ever expanding rule book. I think these two factors begin to eat at the live experience by adding length and downtime.

[scharm]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1314192986' post='1020326']


I prefer watching at home and seeing all the angles, replays, and of course the cost effectiveness. I'd like to be able to go to 1-2 games a year for the atmosphere (tomorrow will actually be my first game since the 2008 season), but I like the flexibility that the tv viewing experience offers, and the view is just as good as the real thing with today's technology.
[/quote]

I'm with ya. I love both. I'll go to my 10-11 games a year. I definately love watching on TV as well.

That's the great thing about the NFL. It has perfect balance. I go to a game. Sometimes in back to back weeks. Then by the next one comes up, I am chomping at the bit to go back to the stadium. After a live game, I enjoy the road weeks which typically mean at home watching on TV.

[CTBengalsFan]

Don't live in the area obviously but from my perspective ... I've had season tickets for UConn basketball since I was born basically, and UConn football since they upgraded to FBS and joined the Big East, and I have gone and will continue to go to every game I can no matter how good or bad the team is. If I had season tickets for the Bengals, I'd do the same. Probably get that attitude from my parents who had been going to UConn basketball games since they were in the Yankee Conference and played in a small gym on campus.

And I DVR most of the games now and watch them later when nothing is on, best of both worlds.

Also, I chose to forego a nice Thanksgiving dinner to drive a couple hours the Bengals/Jets game last year knowing they were terrible. And I bought the tickets like two weeks before the game. I dunno, to me that's being a fan.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1314055346' post='1019434']


my daughter showed real interest in the Bengals for the first time last night. It was great. Thursday will be her first game.
[/quote]

quick.....save her before it's too late!!!!

[Tigris]

I wish I lived closer to the stadium so I could just "get up and go". We have to plan our trips and because of how far it is, we have to eat down there. It's just as much a chore and too much of an expense as it is enjoyable at times. It would be sweet to eat a breakfast/lunch at home, hit up the game, and get your ass back right afterwards.

[Ben]

If fans pay to see a substandard product then they send the message to ownership that they agree with the way things are being run.

The only way you as a consumer can send a message is to not buy a product. Bengals football is just that a product being marketed and sold.

For example. If you you really like chunky soup and it made you sick, you may give it one or two more chances. Just in case it was an aberration. But if you keep buying week after week, year after year, then you are just a masochist and as far as Campbell soup knows you love the new recipe.



In addition to this though, the NFL has done a very good with the product on TV. Scumbag NFL. Sells you Sunday ticket, complains you no go to game.

[Le Tigre]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1314201276' post='1020372']
Your favorite band sounds better on your ipod than it does at a live concert.

You can gamble in the comfort of your own home vs. Casino/Horse Track.

You buy a whole bunch of stuff at home vs. going to the mall.

Can cook meals alot cheaper vs. going out to eat.

On and on and on.

Of course his example can be applied to any sport or activitiy. The people that go, do it because they enjoy it.

To the specific question. NFL makes it easy, first. Games are played when most are off work. Typically it works out to be a twice a month deal August through December. Football in general has always been a more social event from Pee-Wee up through the Pros. Tailgate, pre and post game stuff. That's huge. It is a gathering of family and friends.

Then there is something that just can't be duplicated which is the emotion of the game.


Eventhough I think Paul is anti NFL. He does have a small point would I want to go to every game week after week for 16 weeks? Probably not. The NFL with it's formula allows a fan to enjoy their live experience and also enjoy the "man cave" as well. The NFL has done a great job over the years of not watering down it's product and keeping a real sense of urgency with each game.

[/quote]

Well said. 32 seasons I've been doing this live and in person. Absolutely no comparision to the telly. If folks like the home experience watching the box...that's cool. Nothing other than live has ever done it for me...and never will.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1314207994' post='1020417']
If fans pay to see a substandard product then they send the message to ownership that they agree with the way things are being run.

The only way you as a consumer can send a message is to not buy a product. Bengals football is just that a product being marketed and sold.

For example. If you you really like chunky soup and it made you sick, you may give it one or two more chances. Just in case it was an aberration. But if you keep buying week after week, year after year, then you are just a masochist and as far as Campbell soup knows you love the new recipe.



In addition to this though, the NFL has done a very good with the product on TV. Scumbag NFL. Sells you Sunday ticket, complains you no go to game.
[/quote]



I don't know. If me buying something sent a message that it was a good product.
Yet that product made me sick. I wouldn't even want to watch the product on TV.
Which would also send the same message. I also wouldn't want to get on the internet
and talk about that shitty product that makes me sick. Or tell everyone over and
over that doesn't get sick from it, that I am sick from it , over and over and over.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1314207994' post='1020417']
If fans pay to see a substandard product then they send the message to ownership that they agree with the way things are being run.

The only way you as a consumer can send a message is to not buy a product. Bengals football is just that a product being marketed and sold.

For example. If you you really like chunky soup and it made you sick, you may give it one or two more chances. Just in case it was an aberration. But if you keep buying week after week, year after year, then you are just a masochist and as far as Campbell soup knows you love the new recipe.



In addition to this though, the NFL has done a very good with the product on TV. Scumbag NFL. Sells you Sunday ticket, complains you no go to game.
[/quote]


This.

This is why the argument that if you dont go to games your a banwagon fan falls very short imo.

[|kennethmw|]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1314209242' post='1020437']



I don't know. If me buying something sent a message that it was a good product.
Yet that product made me sick. I wouldn't even want to watch the product on TV.
Which would also send the same message. I also wouldn't want to get on the internet
and talk about that shitty product that makes me sick. Or tell everyone over and
over that doesn't get sick from it, that I am sick from it , over and over and over.
[/quote]

Preach, preacher.

[Ben]

Good Point. I dont know where I can watch chunky soup on tv. Is there a chunky soup message board I can join in the unlikely event it causes me to shit pants multiple times?

[Ben]

I have averaged around 5 home games a year over the last 12 I would guess. I have just been beaten into submission and would rather not make the investment at this point.

I still enjoy watching football though and would prefer that the Bengals win when I watch. It is just nice to be able to turn the tv off and walk out of the living room instead of trying to make why through the drunken gauntlet on the way back to Dayton.


[quote name='Jamie_B' timestamp='1314210179' post='1020451']


This.

This is why the argument that if you dont go to games your a banwagon fan falls very short imo.
[/quote]

[TigerCub]

Not to argue the point, but I personally don't think that it the main reason for games not selling out is bandwagon fans. I'm sure it does affect the attendance somewhat, but not to the extent to cause the games not to sellout. Bandwagon fans attend games when the team is winning and do not attend games when the team is losing. The Bengals sold out every game despite the team losing for a long, long time. It wasn't until the last few years the the games did not sell out. That says that they did not have too many Bandwagon fans back then, and I don't think there are many more now.

I think if the team had a winning record more often than not, and then every so often had a losing record (say 2 years winning and 1 year losing), I would argue that during the losing year, the games would still sell out. I think it is the perpetual losing that has led to the decrease in attendance. Many of us have lost hope that this team will ever be good again, so we decide not to attend until we have reason to believe that there is hope for a winning organization in the future. This team has done nothing recently to provide us that hope. Two playoff appearances with no playoff wins in 25+ years, in addition to only having 2 or 3 winning seasons causes us to lose that hope. Heck, the local media even tries to soften the blow by saying that the Bengals have had 4 or 5 non-losing seasons. In my opinion, 8-8 is not a good record, so I should not be proud of that. That's why I count Winning Seasons! This is just my opinion.

[oldschooler]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1314217018' post='1020551']
Good Point. I dont know where I can watch chunky soup on tv. Is there a chunky soup message board I can join in the unlikely event it causes me to shit pants multiple times?
[/quote]


Lucky for you, I'm here then ...




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[url="http://j-pouch.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5851071921/m/5917099795"]http://j-pouch.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5851071921/m/5917099795[/url]

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[quote name='TigerCub' timestamp='1314217745' post='1020558']
Not to argue the point, but I personally don't think that it the main reason for games not selling out is bandwagon fans. I'm sure it does affect the attendance somewhat, but not to the extent to cause the games not to sellout. Bandwagon fans attend games when the team is winning and do not attend games when the team is losing. The Bengals sold out every game despite the team losing for a long, long time. It wasn't until the last few years the the games did not sell out. That says that they did not have too many Bandwagon fans back then, and I don't think there are many more now.

I think if the team had a winning record more often than not, and then every so often had a losing record (say 2 years winning and 1 year losing), I would argue that during the losing year, the games would still sell out. I think it is the perpetual losing that has led to the decrease in attendance. Many of us have lost hope that this team will ever be good again, so we decide not to attend until we have reason to believe that there is hope for a winning organization in the future. This team has done nothing recently to provide us that hope. Two playoff appearances with no playoff wins in 25+ years, in addition to only having 2 or 3 winning seasons causes us to lose that hope. Heck, the local media even tries to soften the blow by saying that the Bengals have had 4 or 5 non-losing seasons. In my opinion, 8-8 is not a good record, so I should not be proud of that. That's why I count Winning Seasons! This is just my opinion.
[/quote]


Poisoned fanbase.

[scharm]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1314207994' post='1020417']
If fans pay to see a substandard product then they send the message to ownership that they agree with the way things are being run.

The only way you as a consumer can send a message is to not buy a product. Bengals football is just that a product being marketed and sold.

For example. If you you really like chunky soup and it made you sick, you may give it one or two more chances. Just in case it was an aberration. But if you keep buying week after week, year after year, then you are just a masochist and as far as Campbell soup knows you love the new recipe.



In addition to this though, the NFL has done a very good with the product on TV. Scumbag NFL. Sells you Sunday ticket, complains you no go to game.
[/quote]

The NFL product is good. There's nothing substandard about it. You are simply framing your arguement and using a bad example.

Clearly the product is good enough that you come here to discuss.

The soup vs. Bengals winning is silly as Winning is clearly not the end all of the NFL/Bengals product people love. Never has been.

[scharm]

[quote name='Ben' timestamp='1314217214' post='1020553']
I have averaged around 5 home games a year over the last 12 I would guess. I have just been beaten into submission and would rather not make the investment at this point.

I still enjoy watching football though and would prefer that the Bengals win when I watch. It is just nice to be able to turn the tv off and walk out of the living room instead of trying to make why through the drunken gauntlet on the way back to Dayton.
[/quote]

[quote name='TigerCub' timestamp='1314217745' post='1020558']
Not to argue the point, but I personally don't think that it the main reason for games not selling out is bandwagon fans. I'm sure it does affect the attendance somewhat, but not to the extent to cause the games not to sellout. Bandwagon fans attend games when the team is winning and do not attend games when the team is losing. The Bengals sold out every game despite the team losing for a long, long time. It wasn't until the last few years the the games did not sell out. That says that they did not have too many Bandwagon fans back then, and I don't think there are many more now.

I think if the team had a winning record more often than not, and then every so often had a losing record (say 2 years winning and 1 year losing), I would argue that during the losing year, the games would still sell out. I think it is the perpetual losing that has led to the decrease in attendance. Many of us have lost hope that this team will ever be good again, so we decide not to attend until we have reason to believe that there is hope for a winning organization in the future. This team has done nothing recently to provide us that hope. Two playoff appearances with no playoff wins in 25+ years, in addition to only having 2 or 3 winning seasons causes us to lose that hope. Heck, the local media even tries to soften the blow by saying that the Bengals have had 4 or 5 non-losing seasons. In my opinion, 8-8 is not a good record, so I should not be proud of that. That's why I count Winning Seasons! This is just my opinion.
[/quote]

.
IMO, Cincinnati is bandwagon more than other towns. Not that is wrong. What has the professional or college sports teams over a period a long time done to achieve consistent year in and year support in a market this size?

I don't think bandwagon is an insult. However, sports entities in Cincinnati get hot from time to time and then fade. It's the same entities for the most part Xavier Bball, UC fball, bball, Reds, Bengals. Each entity has their own core fan that buys tickets.

The population isn't dense enough to mask attendance numbers when the Bandwagon group turns their attention to something else. Just the way it is.

As for the Bengals clearly winning is key as always but when Marvin came there was a rebirth of the Bengals that brough hope. The bengals became the thing to do once again. Now they are stale and have been stale for a while.

As it relates to the Bengals overtime they have not performed well enough to maximize their die hard fan base in their own market and certainly have not done anything to exceed that market limitations. Bengals will always have those 20K-30K ticket base. Then work to get the fringe for the rest to a sell out. That base isn't going to grow and most likely will only decline with the negativity.

[oldschooler]

This fits in this topic. From Mo Egger's blog ...



[b]Remember second week of December 2009? [/b]It was a busy sports week in this town. We had a 9-3 Bengals team getting ready for a road matchup against the Vikings, we had the Crosstown Shootout on the horizon, we'd just come off of RedsFest, and UC had just won the Big East title and completed a 12-0 season with a win in the Greatest Sporting Event Ever in Pittsburgh.

And all of those things were dwarfed by Brian Kelly.

I did 15 hours of radio that week. The Bengals recently completed game against Detroit and their upcoming matchup against Minnesota generated maybe five calls all week. The UC/XU game didn't even register. The busiest week of phone calls ever to our show was dominated by people wanting to talk about UC losing a football coach.

The calls were passion-filled, and there were so many different angles and opinions that it made for a great week of sports-talk radio.

During that week, here's the call I received most often:
[i]"MO! WHERE'S BRIAN KELLY'S LOYALTY? THIS MAN HAS TO BE LOYAL! THOSE KIDS DESERVE LOYALTY! THIS SCHOOL DESERVES LOYALTY! THESE DAMN COACHES HAVE NO LOYALTY!"[/i]

I got that call a lot.

Fast forward to the last week of August, 2011. The Bearcats are preparing to begin their second season post-BK. Disaffection with the Bengals is at an all-time high and the Reds are wrapping up a thoroughly disappointing season, but the Bearcat football program has seen their season ticket numbers plummet by more than 20%. From Bill Koch...

[i]With a little more than a week before UC opens its 2011 football season against Austin Peay on Sept. 3, season ticket sales are down 22 percent from last year.[/i]

[i]UC, which went 4-8 last year after winning back-to-back Big East championships in 2008 and 2009, has sold 12,348 season tickets for 2011 compared with 15,899 in 2010.[/i]

OK, makes sense. Last year's team wasn't very good, there's kind of a wait-and-see attitude among fans regarding this year's team, the non-conference home schedule doesn't do much to inspire excitement, and economy is still in the dumper. And I'm not the kind of guy who bangs on people for going or not going to games. What you do with your money is your business, and deciding to not buy a ticket doesn't at all make you less of a fan.

But I can't help but think about all those phone calls...how upset people were, how passionate they came across, how they made it seem that the loss of an uber-successful coach made them dig their heels in, in unwavering support of the program. Those calls that week were from people who sounded like the kind of fans who buy in for life, regardless of the coach, regardless of the opponent, regardless of the quality of the team.

[i]"MO! I DEMAND LOYALTY! AND WE JUST SAW A COACH WHO HAS NONE WALK OUT THE DOOR! THE NEW COACH MUST BE LOYAL TO THIS PROGRAM, TO THIS SCHOOL, AND THIS CITY."[/i]

I wonder how many of those people who didn't re-up for 2011 called my show that week, emphatically banging on someone else's lack of loyalty. I kinda wonder where their loyalty is to the program they spoke so passionately about.

These people spoke of an unconditional loyalty, the kind that transcends decisions to chase a lifelong dream by accepting a job higher up the professional rung. Notre Dame might be Notre Dame but damn-nit, we still wanted the coach to be loyal, right?

I guess loyalty is indeed conditional after all. We're willing to be loyal as long as the team is winning. Just like Brian Kelly, or any other coach's decision has nothing to do about "the kids," nor does our decision whether to financially invest in said kids. I remember those phone calls -[i] "MO! BRIAN KELLY HAS TURNED HIS BACK ON THOSE KIDS! THESE POOR KIDS DON'T HAVE A COACH!" - [/i]and I wonder how many former ticket holders have turned their back on some of those same kids they expressed so much deep concern for. Maybe it's only the kids who are good football players who deserve our loyalty.

Look, I don't care who goes and doesn't go to games, and if you've decided not to buy into UC football this season, that's completely OK. You'll enjoy the season and follow the team to the extent you want, and so will I. Emotional investments make us fans, not financial ones. But next time we start hammering an outsider for not showing the program the loyalty we'd like them to, maybe we should look in the mirror and wonder if we hold ourselves to the same standards.


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[scharm]

Doc is the type of guy in college when his buddies are loading up the car with Beer/Pot etc. to go to Churchill downs for the Kentucky Derby, Doc points out that it is on ABC and you won't see a horse from the infield.