BengalsFanFromNY Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Wanna see Dalton show up in games that matter the most. He doesn't have to win the game for us but at least show up and not look like it's a pre-season game to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Uh, firing Marvin after 11 or 12 years without a playoff win isn't acting in a kneejerk fashion. It's simply taking the next step toward winning a Super Bowl. Some guys can turn bad teams into average to decent ones without being able to turn good teams into champions. I think Marvin is in that camp, along with Marty Schottenheimer and others. That doesn't mean the next HC will be able to win a Super Bowl here, just that we know Marvin won't. How do we know it? Because he can't complete the first step despite multiple opportunities with favorable circumstances. I'm tired of squandering the window we have before Whitworth and the CBs are too old. Uh, Marvin didn't have full control of his team until he renegotiated his contract extension 2 years ago. There's a huge difference in how they're being run, top to bottom. You may be right about him not being able to turn a good team into a champion, but I'm not convinced that's the case here. I am not at all confident in whoever the replacement might turn out to be, either. I don't really see a window based on Whitworth & the CB's. This team is built for the long haul, and that's another credit to ML finally being able to set their direction. Whit's still my favorite player on the team, too. I think you can look back at his ejection vs. Oakland a couple of years ago as a turning point for the team's identity. Still, one of the things that sets them apart from the old Bengals is that they don't fall apart because one player goes down. They've more than proven that at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhfinks Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 1. A solid draft (CB, S, OT, DE - no 1-5 draft picks at WR or QB or TE) with respectable FA signings ie. solid back up QB, RB to go with Gio, CB and or S ... TAG Johnson or Extend Green Now....( IMO if you don't extend Green now spend the money on Johnson) Resign Collins (should happen) and get all our young injured guys back on the field.. along with Hall and Atkins.. 2. Mid-point - injury free would be nice and be sitting at 5-3. (with new OC and DC coming up through our system.. i expect some changes and a few dropped games that we should have won) 3. Another AFCN Championship followed up with a 12-4 Season (with a bi - in the playoffs - and a post season win) (Hell - going to the super bowl and winning would do it too.. but lets not get greedy, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madieu Superstar Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 1. I thought last year that we had to get 3 out of 4 of Dunlap, MJ, Atkins and Andre signed to long term deals. We did that. This offseason, I don't think there is a lot of pressure or expectations. I'd like for them to get long term deals in place with AJ and Vontaze, but if not now, it can happen next year or even the year after. No rush, but now seems like it would be a good time. There's not much I think the team needs to do in outside FA. We got Mike Pollak for less than $1M last year and he ended up being a really valuable and solid fill-in on the OL. I think a few signings like that would be fine. I'd like to keep our RFAs Vinny Rey and Andrew Hawkins. As for the draft, nothing specific. I mean they are going to use the picks they have on the players they think are best. No real expectations from me... 2. Mid-point? I haven't really looked at the schedule, but they need to be in the hunt for a playoff spot. At least 4-4. 3. I think a successful season is a playoff win. If it doesn't happen I'm not going to be calling for everybody's heads though. At what point do you expect/demand better than that before you call for everybody's head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrandom42 Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 At what point do you expect/demand better than that before you call for everybody's head? Hard to say. Remember the Bears firing Lovie Smith after missing the playoffs with a 10-6 record? How'd that work out for them since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 Besides the good chance this is Marvin's last year anyway… the Bengals have a very good thing going under Lewis right now, not only on game day. It would take a really awful season for me to really want heads to roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm hopeful Hue will have more of a ball control philosophy on offense & convinced we'd already have at least one playoff victory if the last two OC's hadn't been so pass-happy. My immediate concerns are that the two best players on defense ended the season on IR, and the two guys responsible for improving the OL are both free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Uh, Marvin didn't have full control of his team until he renegotiated his contract extension 2 years ago. There's a huge difference in how they're being run, top to bottom. You may be right about him not being able to turn a good team into a champion, but I'm not convinced that's the case here. I am not at all confident in whoever the replacement might turn out to be, either. I don't really see a window based on Whitworth & the CB's. This team is built for the long haul, and that's another credit to ML finally being able to set their direction. Whit's still my favorite player on the team, too. I think you can look back at his ejection vs. Oakland a couple of years ago as a turning point for the team's identity. Still, one of the things that sets them apart from the old Bengals is that they don't fall apart because one player goes down. They've more than proven that at this point. I agree with this. That said, another 1 and done, and I may well join the "Fire Marvin" club unless there are severe mitigating circumstances (like losing Dalton and Green midseason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Uh, Marvin didn't have full control of his team until he renegotiated his contract extension 2 years ago. There's a huge difference in how they're being run, top to bottom. You may be right about him not being able to turn a good team into a champion, but I'm not convinced that's the case here. I am not at all confident in whoever the replacement might turn out to be, either. I don't really see a window based on Whitworth & the CB's. This team is built for the long haul, and that's another credit to ML finally being able to set their direction. Whit's still my favorite player on the team, too. I think you can look back at his ejection vs. Oakland a couple of years ago as a turning point for the team's identity. Still, one of the things that sets them apart from the old Bengals is that they don't fall apart because one player goes down. They've more than proven that at this point. Yeah, it's always somebody else holding Marvin back, isn't it? We had several good drafts in a row so the time to capitalize on it is a couple years afterward. We have some players getting older who won't be starting or at least as effective in 2 years (Whitworth, Peko, Hall, Newman, Jones, Harrison, etc). Those guys will have to be replaced with younger talent. If Johnson, Collins, Gresham, etc leave, we'll be thin. It's not inevitable that we draft well, in fact no team consistently does. The Packers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens all have some high profile draft misses. They have a rep for drafting well because they have elite QBs they found in the draft (Ravens possible exception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yeah, it's always somebody else holding Marvin back, isn't it? Always? No, just in this particular instance. Everyone including the man himself has talked extensively about all the changes that were made in order to convince him to re-up. Either you aren't paying attention or you're choosing to ignore anything that doesn't fit your agenda, because the results have been dramatic. Not to mention that convincing a notoriously backwards and stubborn owner to make those changes at all should've earned him the undying gratitude of Bengals fans. Maybe he ends up being our equivalent of Dungy in Tampa but he pretty well turned this franchise around single-handedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Yeah, it's always somebody else holding Marvin back, isn't it? We had several good drafts in a row so the time to capitalize on it is a couple years afterward. We have some players getting older who won't be starting or at least as effective in 2 years (Whitworth, Peko, Hall, Newman, Jones, Harrison, etc). Those guys will have to be replaced with younger talent. If Johnson, Collins, Gresham, etc leave, we'll be thin. It's not inevitable that we draft well, in fact no team consistently does. The Packers, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens all have some high profile draft misses. They have a rep for drafting well because they have elite QBs they found in the draft (Ravens possible exception). Those teams are all thin. Maybe you missed it but none of them have drafted particularly well in the last few seasons, and all of them are showing the warts for it. Pats are an anomaly because they have a HOF QB and the best coach in the game. The Bengals have been extracting max value from the draft for 5 years straight, I don't expect it to stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The last couple of drafts haven't been that good. From 2012 we have Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Still, Sanu, and Thompson in the first 3 rounds. Zeitler and Thompson are probably the best of those players but not setting the world on fire. Marvin Jones in the 5th round was a good pick. In 2013 we took Eifert, Gio, Hunt, and Williams the first 2 days. Gio is a good pick but the others didn't have much impact as rookies. Maybe if MJ leaves Hunt explodes and Eifert displaces Gresham. Or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The last couple of drafts haven't been that good. OK, you don't know WTF you're talking about. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 The last couple of drafts haven't been that good. From 2012 we have Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Still, Sanu, and Thompson in the first 3 rounds. Zeitler and Thompson are probably the best of those players but not setting the world on fire. Marvin Jones in the 5th round was a good pick. In 2013 we took Eifert, Gio, Hunt, and Williams the first 2 days. Gio is a good pick but the others didn't have much impact as rookies. Maybe if MJ leaves Hunt explodes and Eifert displaces Gresham. Or maybe not.Really? I'm starting to think that you are just posting shit to be argumentative. Or you liked the days when we HAD to have rookies come in and make a difference immediately, because we had little depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Well 1st and 2nd rounders should be winning starting jobs or at least pushing for playing time, especially over guys drafted lower than them. My main concern is that they haven't made much impact when on the field. I don't expect Hunt to beat out MJ but we'll want him to replace MJ after his departure. I saw Hunt run around a lot but not get much pressure on passers. I saw Kirkpatrick get burned repeatedly on double moves and the team have to shift the safeties his way. Sanu benefited from Hawkins' injury but didn't have much impact last year. Jones clearly outplayed him. If there were a redraft nobody would take Sanu before Jones. Eifert may just be Gresham's replacement in waiting but we played enough 2 TE sets that he should have been more productive. Still has been largely invisible. Thompson did a good job when called upon. Zeitler is a solid player. I think his decline was due to the foot injury and he'll be better in 2014. Though of course Steeler fans will point out DeCastro is better. Gio was a good pick and we were lucky he fell that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The PatternMaster Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Kirkpatrick was hurt all of his rookie year so while technically he is a 2nd year player he was basically a rookie, he showed that he can make some plays in this league. Sanu was a 3rd round pick who is barely used, how balls were thrown his way? Same for Eifert, I don't think either one of those guys get enough opportunities to make plays because Dalton is too concerned with forcing the ball to AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Harley| Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Here are my expectations and hopes: Draft: I expect a good draft. ML and staff have done well in the past and while I'm some times surprised by the positions they choose, they do well. I HOPE they draft a CB that can start by mid year. I HOPE that pick 2, 3, or 4 is QB Free agency: I don't expect any signings beyond low tier depth. We will lose MJ. Season: I expect a more difficult season. I expect 9 or 10 wins. We may win the division but it will come down to the final week. We will have a wildcard at least but will not get a bye. Happiness: I would be very happy if they won the AFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Those teams are all thin. Maybe you missed it but none of them have drafted particularly well in the last few seasons, and all of them are showing the warts for it. Pats are an anomaly because they have a HOF QB and the best coach in the game. The Bengals have been extracting max value from the draft for 5 years straight, I don't expect it to stop now. So in one sentence you admit that many of the historically best front offices have had some drafting difficulties lately and then follow that up by saying you don't think the Bengals will have the same issues? I know we've drafted well, but it isn't like we've dominated the NFL. We'll have our share of misses, which is why it is so important to take advantage of the streak of good drafting when you have it. So far we haven't really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 So in one sentence you admit that many of the historically best front offices have had some drafting difficulties lately and then follow that up by saying you don't think the Bengals will have the same issues? I know we've drafted well, but it isn't like we've dominated the NFL. We'll have our share of misses, which is why it is so important to take advantage of the streak of good drafting when you have it. So far we haven't really. Yes, that's pretty much exactly what's happened. The Bengals have been following a value model and it's been working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Yes, that's pretty much exactly what's happened. The Bengals have been following a value model and it's been working. So you think other teams that had huge runs of solid drafts like the Ravens were just getting lucky? And we've discovered some secret that ensures we will draft well for eternity? Wow. You'd think this NFL hack we've discovered would have netted at least one playoff win by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 So you think other teams that had huge runs of solid drafts like the Ravens were just getting lucky? And we've discovered some secret that ensures we will draft well for eternity? Wow. You'd think this NFL hack we've discovered would have netted at least one playoff win by now. No, way to strawman. Based on the last five years, the Bengals have drafted better than any of those organizations, and I don't see why it wouldn't continue. Those organizations probably will draft better in the future, but this is an advantage the Bengals have at the moment. Just so you know, the Bengals "hack" has resulted in what's universally considered one of, if not THE, deepest rosters in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 No, way to strawman. Based on the last five years, the Bengals have drafted better than any of those organizations, and I don't see why it wouldn't continue. Those organizations probably will draft better in the future, but this is an advantage the Bengals have at the moment. Just so you know, the Bengals "hack" has resulted in what's universally considered one of, if not THE, deepest rosters in the NFL. So you believe that we have the best front office in the NFL in terms of college scouting and drafting? I am baffled that you somehow think we are going to avoid the bad luck/bad decisions etc that hits every single NFL team no matter how smart and value oriented they are. I am well aware that we have a very talented and very deep roster. I am also aware that all that talent and depth have managed to accomplish virtually nothing of significance. Playoff berths are nice but don't mean anything if you continually play like shit when you get there. If we've nailed the draft for 5 straight years and still have nothing tos how for it, maybe we aren't really nailing it after all? Or maybe that isn't enough? All I know is that everyone talks about us drafting so well and being so talented and deep and we can't even win a home playoff game against a team we just beat on the road a few weeks earlier. Something doesn't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange 'n Black Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 So you believe that we have the best front office in the NFL in terms of college scouting and drafting? I am baffled that you somehow think we are going to avoid the bad luck/bad decisions etc that hits every single NFL team no matter how smart and value oriented they are. I am well aware that we have a very talented and very deep roster. I am also aware that all that talent and depth have managed to accomplish virtually nothing of significance. Playoff berths are nice but don't mean anything if you continually play like shit when you get there. If we've nailed the draft for 5 straight years and still have nothing tos how for it, maybe we aren't really nailing it after all? Or maybe that isn't enough? All I know is that everyone talks about us drafting so well and being so talented and deep and we can't even win a home playoff game against a team we just beat on the road a few weeks earlier. Something doesn't add up. I did not say that either. They have certainly done a better job of it than the mentioned franchises over the past five years. But I see what your real problem is, that success in personnel hasn't led to postseason success yet. One doesn't directly lead to the other. The Pats have taken scraps to the AFCCG with excellent coaching. Gym Shorts wasted a lot of talent in Detroit with bad coaching. The Bengals are somewhere in the middle. I didn't realize claiming that the Bengals did something a lot better than most franchises in the league would be such an offensive idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coup000 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I did not say that either. They have certainly done a better job of it than the mentioned franchises over the past five years. But I see what your real problem is, that success in personnel hasn't led to postseason success yet. One doesn't directly lead to the other. The Pats have taken scraps to the AFCCG with excellent coaching. Gym Shorts wasted a lot of talent in Detroit with bad coaching. The Bengals are somewhere in the middle. I didn't realize claiming that the Bengals did something a lot better than most franchises in the league would be such an offensive idea. I think our draft prowess and current personnel is a little over rated. I agree that our playoff failures have been the result of many factors including coaching, personnel, etc. But my main issue with your logic is that you admit that other teams that historically drafted well are having a run of bad luck/bad results (whatever you want to call it) but you somehow don't think the Bengals will ever have that happen to them. Ozzie Newsome is still a very good GM even if he hasn't nailed every draft. We had to string together 5 straight good drafts just to become a consistently relevant franchise again. What happens when we have a bad draft or two? The reality is the combination of coaching/drafting/developing hasn't gotten us where we want to be (certainly moved us in the right direction). The coaching probably isn't going to change so we need to draft/develop/sign free agents etc better to get somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Dub Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Most of the offense's skill players have been in the league 3 years or less. This is a young team in general. Wahhwahhh they NEVER do ANYTHING and it's all just a WASTE and NOBODY CARES and this is the WORST birthday a girl could HAVE bohoohoohoohoo *kicks can* Isn't there a pill y'all can take for that? Yeesh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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