QBs in Focus: Under Pressure

[Arkansas Bengal]

QBs in Focus: Under Pressure

 

Steve Palazzolo | May 20, 2015

 

We had some fun last summer breaking down quarterback play from every angle, so we’ve decided to dig into the database again to review the 2014 season. One of the beauties of collecting data on every play of the season is the ability to then isolate each player’s strengths and weaknesses. This series will take a look at how quarterbacks performed in various situations, looking beyond just the overall grades that are posted on the site.

As always with PFF grades, it’s important to remember that we are isolating the quarterback’s role in the play from everyone else. We are evaluating the decision making and the throw, not necessarily the result. A great pass that gets dropped by a receiver receives the same credit it would have if the pass was caught, while an ill-advised pass into coverage that is dropped by a linebacker is downgraded as if it was intercepted. It’s important to remember this distinction when diving into the grades.

Here’s a look at how quarterbacks fared under pressure in the 2014 season.
*Minimum 200 drop-backs to qualify
*Playoffs Included
*All grades are normalized so that the NFL average is 0.0 for each category.

 

Who Faced the Most Pressure?

 

– The QBs that hold the ball longer tend to face the highest percentage of pressure, and that’s generally the case at the top of the list. Robert Griffin III had the fifth-highest time to throw at 2.94 seconds while Russell Wilson was first at 3.18 seconds.

– On the other end, the faster the QB can get the ball out of his hand, the less pressure he’ll face and that’s why Peyton Manning and Andy Dalton faced the lowest percentage of pressure as they got rid of the ball in 2.25 seconds and 2.41 seconds, respectively.

– Including the playoffs, Tom Brady’s 2.36 seconds in the pocket was the second quickest behind Manning, yet he still managed to face very close to the league average when it comes to pressure (32% vs. NFL avg of 33.4%).

 

 

Best/Worst Under Pressure

 

– In perhaps his best season as a pro, Ben Roethlisberger was the league’s best when pressured. He threw 11 touchdowns against one interception under pressure.

– Damage control was the name of the game for Ryan Tannehill who faced the eighth-highest percentage of pressure in the league, yet managed to rank third when normalized. For a quarterback facing that much pressure, his seven touchdowns, four interceptions, and 76.7 passer rating could have looked much worse.

– For the second year in a row, Eli Manning finds himself on the bottom end of the grades when pressured, though he faced the sixth-lowest percentage of pressure in the league.

 

 

Best/Worst with No Pressure

 

– No surprise to see the No. 2 player in the PFF 101 sitting atop the charts. Aaron Rodgers was dominant when given time to throw.

– Even in a clean pocket, Blake Bortles still had his struggles as a rookie. His passer rating of 84.9 wasn’t bad, but he had some help from his receivers as his grade did not match up to that number.

– Jay Cutler was one of the rare cases that saw him struggle in a clean pocket just as much if not more than he did when pressured.

 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/20/qbs-in-focus-under-pressure/

[sparky151]

What a shock. Mark Sanchez, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill grade out better than Dalton both under pressure and in the absence of pressure. The point of the grades is to factor out the performance of other players on the offense and concentrate just on the QB's performance in various situations.

[|kennethmw|]

What a shock. Mark Sanchez, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill grade out better than Dalton both under pressure and in the absence of pressure. The point of the grades is to factor out the performance of other players on the offense and concentrate just on the QB's performance in various situations.

What a shock! You're still trying to justify your previous bs.

[sparky151]

What a shock! You're still trying to justify your previous bs.

 

It's pretty obvious to everyone but Bengals homers that Dalton is a below average QB who wouldn't be hard to replace. 

[|kennethmw|]

It's pretty obvious to everyone but Bengals homers that Dalton is a below average QB who wouldn't be hard to replace.

Actually, it's obvious he's an average to slightly above average QB, but the DHC has no ability to see that.

[HairOnFire]

What a shock. Mark Sanchez, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill grade out better than Dalton both under pressure and in the absence of pressure.

 

Austin Davis graded out better under pressure than Peyton Manning but I don't hear anyone claiming Davis is a better QB than Manning.

 

 

 

 The point of the grades is to factor out the performance of other players on the offense and concentrate just on the QB's performance in various situations.

 

The stats show Dalton is 2nd best in the NFL at processing information pre-snap and getting rid of the ball before pressure arrives.

 

You boys Austin Davis and Shaun Hill were amongst the worst.

 

And I guess this is where you post Mo Sanu's passing efficiency numbers again.

 

 

 

 

It's pretty obvious to everyone but Bengals homers that Dalton is a below average QB who wouldn't be hard to replace. 

 

It's pretty obvious to everyone you have a weakness for junk stats.

 

For example, the stats show Jay Clutler is pretty good against pressure but absolutely terrible when there isn't any.

 

Does that make sense to you?

[sparky151]

 

Austin Davis graded out better under pressure than Peyton Manning but I don't hear anyone claiming Davis is a better QB than Manning.

 

 

 

 

The stats show Dalton is 2nd best in the NFL at processing information pre-snap and getting rid of the ball before pressure arrives.

 

You boys Austin Davis and Shaun Hill were amongst the worst.

 

And I guess this is where you post Mo Sanu's passing efficiency numbers again.

 

 

 

 

 

It's pretty obvious to everyone you have a weakness for junk stats.

 

For example, the stats show Jay Clutler is pretty good against pressure but absolutely terrible when there isn't any.

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

Manning wasn't under pressure very often so his under pressure sample size is much smaller than the not under pressure sample size. Davis was under pressure twice as often as Manning. Not surprising as the Rams O-line wasn't very good and inexperienced QBs usually are slower decision makers.

 

Dalton's quick release times don't translate as second best at pre-snap decision making. If he was second fastest to release and threw a below average number of interceptions, that would be the case. 

 

In the case of Cutler, note that the stats are normalized to zero. Cutler grades out slightly above average among QBs when under pressure. Ie, he can complete passes to open receivers when falling backward due to his arm strength. When not under pressure, he throws balls up for grabs, ala Jake Delhomme, and grades out below average among his peers. Dalton grades out worse than average both when under pressure and when not under pressure. It's the latter number that is especially painful since the whole point of Dalton's quick time to release is to avoid pressure. 

[HairOnFire]

Manning wasn't under pressure very often so his under pressure sample size is much smaller than the not under pressure sample size.

 

That's true for Dalton as well.

 

 

 

 Davis was under pressure twice as often as Manning. Not surprising as the Rams O-line wasn't very good and inexperienced QBs usually are slower decision makers.

 

In short, the slower decision making meant Davis was responsible for much of the pressure he faced. 

 

So Dalton faced pressure half as often but somehow you're more impressed by the guys who perform slightly better when facing the pass pressure that was made more effective by their own slow decision making. 

[oldschooler]

NFL ‏@nfl  May 24

Some sit above. Others fall below. Find out where your QB lands on the Andy Dalton Scale: http://at.nfl.com/qdTIs8L 

[philhos]

 

It's pretty obvious to everyone but Bengals homers that Dalton is a below average QB who wouldn't be hard to replace. 

 

False.

 

First off, you're basing this on stats that were taken from one year. Let me remind you that Dalton has been in the league for 4 years now. Making this claim based off one season of statistics is no better than someone claiming Dalton is a very good QB after the 2013 season, but basing it only on 2013 stats.

 

Secondly, since Dalton would be easy to replace, to whom would you replace him with? McCarron? Pryor? Johnson? There is no one available (now or pre-draft) that you could claim would come in and instantly be better than Dalton. NONE. Sure, you MIGHT get lucky and someone could turn out to be better, but that's a huge gamble.

 

Lastly, anyone that claims for a fact that Dalton is something other than what he is - an average QB - is someone whose football IQ should be called into question.

[sparky151]

 

That's true for Dalton as well.

 

 

 

 

In short, the slower decision making meant Davis was responsible for much of the pressure he faced. 

 

So Dalton faced pressure half as often but somehow you're more impressed by the guys who perform slightly better when facing the pass pressure that was made more effective by their own slow decision making. 

 

Davis and Hill played behind the same O-line. Davis faced slightly more pressure than Hill which might be due to slower decision making than the veteran or simply due to DCs bringing more pressure vs a less experienced QB. Whatever the reason Davis played better than Dalton both when under pressure and when not under pressure. He also didn't have the supporting cast that Andy has. Davis has made 8 career starts compared to Dalton's 64. Dalton already has a quick release which is unlikely to become quicker (and he may become a better QB by not releasing so quickly) while Davis is likely to speed up his decision making with more experience. 

[sparky151]

 

NFL ‏@nfl  May 24

Some sit above. Others fall below. Find out where your QB lands on the Andy Dalton Scale: http://at.nfl.com/qdTIs8L 

 

 

Worth a listen. I don't know who the 3 guys are but the premise of the show was that Dalton was the border between QBs a team could be happy with and guys who needed to be replaced. When they ranked QBs 1 had Dalton as the 19th best, another had him at 22nd, and the third guy at 27th. The guy who had him ranked lowest included his contract size as a factor while the others didn't. One guy said Dalton would be a good fit for a team like the Seahawks who don't need their QB to win games by himself, prompting the others to point out that the Seahawks play a lot of primetime games and want to win in the playoffs. Another guy pointed out that Dalton has played 13 primetime games in his career which is the same number of starts as EJ Manuel has. But Manuel has much better stats in his starts than Dalton has in primetime. 

 

 They agreed Dalton ranks behind Bridgewater, Winston, and Mariota and argued about Bortles and Carr. 

[sparky151]

 

False.

 

First off, you're basing this on stats that were taken from one year. Let me remind you that Dalton has been in the league for 4 years now. Making this claim based off one season of statistics is no better than someone claiming Dalton is a very good QB after the 2013 season, but basing it only on 2013 stats.

 

Secondly, since Dalton would be easy to replace, to whom would you replace him with? McCarron? Pryor? Johnson? There is no one available (now or pre-draft) that you could claim would come in and instantly be better than Dalton. NONE. Sure, you MIGHT get lucky and someone could turn out to be better, but that's a huge gamble.

 

Lastly, anyone that claims for a fact that Dalton is something other than what he is - an average QB - is someone whose football IQ should be called into question.

 

No, I don't think Dalton has gotten substantially better over his 4 years. I was happy with his rookie production but haven't seen much of a learning curve. Who claimed Dalton was very good after the 2013 season? He got us to the playoffs only to melt down again. 

 

Average would imply Dalton was the 16th-17th best QB in the league. Some people here will defend that claim but not many outside of Cincinnati. My view is that he's got an above average supporting cast which lets him provide average production. I'd rank him in the low 20s. If the team were inclined to spend the money more effectively, then replacing Dalton would be a good move to make. 

[alleycat]

 Another guy pointed out that Dalton has played 13 primetime games in his career which is the same number of starts as EJ Manuel has. But Manuel has much better stats in his starts than Dalton has in primetime. 

 

Wait.

 

What?

[HairOnFire]

 They agreed Dalton ranks behind Bridgewater, Winston, and Mariota and argued about Bortles and Carr. 

 

Hilarious.

 

Three guys you admit you've never heard of claim two QB's who haven't played a snap of NFL football are better than Dalton.

 

 

 

Wait.

 

What?

 

Yeah, that seems to be the proper response to this thread.

[sparky151]

 

Wait.

 

What?

 

The claim was that Dalton had started 13 primetime games (games where the Bengals and their opponent were the only ones playing at that time. It includes the playoff games) in his career. His stats in those games are considerably worse than EJ Manuel's career stats in his starts. One of the guys said Dalton would have to have 3 straight lights out games to raise his average in primetime to the EJ Manuel level. They were debating the question of whether or not Dalton was a viable starting option for teams or someone who held his team back. 

 

Dalton defenders could point out that most of those primetime games were vs good teams, though the 2.0 is hard to explain.

[sparky151]

 

Hilarious.

 

Three guys you admit you've never heard of claim two QB's who haven't played a snap of NFL football are better than Dalton.

 

 

 

Yeah, that seems to be the proper response to this thread.

 

The argument in favor of Winston and Mariota is that they attracted trade offers far better than anyone would make for Dalton. Tampa and Tennessee both turned down trade offers that included multiple first round picks. Nobody would offer that much for Dalton. So there was debate that included agreement that Dalton was a safer pick if the goal was 8-8 but not if a team wanted a championship. 

[HairOnFire]

The argument in favor of Winston and Mariota is that they attracted trade offers far better than anyone would make for Dalton.

 

So far your rant is based on junk stats and QB rankings made up out of thin air by three guys you've never heard of.

 

I can't wait to see what comes next.

[alleycat]

 

The claim was that Dalton had started 13 primetime games (games where the Bengals and their opponent were the only ones playing at that time. It includes the playoff games) in his career. His stats in those games are considerably worse than EJ Manuel's career stats in his starts. One of the guys said Dalton would have to have 3 straight lights out games to raise his average in primetime to the EJ Manuel level. They were debating the question of whether or not Dalton was a viable starting option for teams or someone who held his team back. 

 

Dalton defenders could point out that most of those primetime games were vs good teams, though the 2.0 is hard to explain.

 

So you ARE actually comparing Prime Time games to regular games!

 

Sorry, but that's just laughable.

 

Have the Bills even been good enough to be in a prime time game in the last three years lol.

 

There's plenty of legit criticism of Dalton available without having to reach so desperately.  You're giving the Haters a bad name.

[SnickyCat]

Now rookies who have never taken a snap are better than Dalton, guys that have never even sniffed winning seasons are better than Dalton and a guy that has only made it thru 13 starts in 2 seasons (& may not even be his team's week 1 starter) is better than Dalton???

OMG OTAs just started and the hate is in full bloom already! This shit is getting hilarious around here! :lmao:

[sparky151]

 

So you ARE actually comparing Prime Time games to regular games!

 

Sorry, but that's just laughable.

 

Have the Bills even been good enough to be in a prime time game in the last three years lol.

 

There's plenty of legit criticism of Dalton available without having to reach so desperately.  You're giving the Haters a bad name.

 

Yes, the discussion in the podcast was about whether or not Dalton was a viable long term starting QB for a franchise that aspired to win a championship. Originally he was defined as QB purgatory with better QBs giving their team a chance and lesser QBs needing to be replaced for their team to have a chance. After much discussion they gravitated toward the view that Dalton was below the purgatory line and various other QBs (Palmer, Smith, Cutler, or Griffin III) should define it. 

 

The point of the EJ Manuel comparison was that nobody thinks he's a good NFL QB. But his career per game averages are far better than Dalton's  prime time averages, and that a team wanting to win a championship will have to play some prime time games. Thus the argument that Dalton isn't a viable long term starting QB for a team that aspires to win a championship. Of course they didn't address the question of whether the Bengals actually aspire to a championship or not. 

[sparky151]

Now rookies who have never taken a snap are better than Dalton, guys that have never even sniffed winning seasons are better than Dalton and a guy that has only made it thru 13 starts in 2 seasons (& may not even be his team's week 1 starter) is better than Dalton???

OMG OTAs just started and the hate is in full bloom already! This shit is getting hilarious around here! :lmao:

 

Real life NFL GMs think Winston and Mariota are more desirable than Dalton. That was made clear in the trade offers made to Tampa and Tennessee and the lack of offers made for Dalton. Nobody thinks EJ Manuel is a good NFL QB.

[|kennethmw|]

 

Yes, the discussion in the podcast was about whether or not Dalton was a viable long term starting QB for a franchise that aspired to win a championship. Originally he was defined as QB purgatory with better QBs giving their team a chance and lesser QBs needing to be replaced for their team to have a chance. After much discussion they gravitated toward the view that Dalton was below the purgatory line and various other QBs (Palmer, Smith, Cutler, or Griffin III) should define it. 

 

The point of the EJ Manuel comparison was that nobody thinks he's a good NFL QB. But his career per game averages are far better than Dalton's  prime time averages, and that a team wanting to win a championship will have to play some prime time games. Thus the argument that Dalton isn't a viable long term starting QB for a team that aspires to win a championship. Of course they didn't address the question of whether the Bengals actually aspire to a championship or not. 

 

You, my friend, will latch on to any BS that you think in anyway supports your Idea that Andy is a bad QB, and utterly disregard anything that shows otherwise.  Your view has proven to be extremely myopic, but you continue and continue. 

[alleycat]

 

Yes, the discussion in the podcast was about whether or not Dalton was a viable long term starting QB for a franchise that aspired to win a championship. Originally he was defined as QB purgatory with better QBs giving their team a chance and lesser QBs needing to be replaced for their team to have a chance. After much discussion they gravitated toward the view that Dalton was below the purgatory line and various other QBs (Palmer, Smith, Cutler, or Griffin III) should define it. 

 

The point of the EJ Manuel comparison was that nobody thinks he's a good NFL QB. But his career per game averages are far better than Dalton's  prime time averages, and that a team wanting to win a championship will have to play some prime time games. Thus the argument that Dalton isn't a viable long term starting QB for a team that aspires to win a championship. Of course they didn't address the question of whether the Bengals actually aspire to a championship or not. 

 

After reading your other posts, and now this, it's entirely unsurprising to me that you continue to miss the point.

 

Real life NFL GMs think Winston and Mariota are more desirable than Dalton. That was made clear in the trade offers made to Tampa and Tennessee and the lack of offers made for Dalton. Nobody thinks EJ Manuel is a good NFL QB.

 

Lack of offers for Dalton?!

 

When?

 

And WTF are you talking about?!

[BlackBengal]

Let's see if theses guys think that Mariota is better than Dalton 2 years from now.  Mariota is going to suck donkey dicks in the NFL.  Mark it down.