NFL Network: Bengals Contenders or Pretenders?

[EnglishBengal]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/0ap3000000676467/Will-Bengals-be-AFC-contenders-or-pretenders-this-season

What do these guys know. I think Zampese might surprise a few people, along with WR Tyler Boyd.

[Jason]

So I take it they called us pretenders?

[GoCommando]

The pundits say the same thing every year.

• They said we might be one of the worst teams in the history of the league after Carson quit, Chad was traded, and TO not re-signed. Made the playoffs.
• They said Dalton and AJ werent sneaking up on anyone anymore, the league would be ready. And that the Bengals had never made the playoffs back to back. Made the playoffs. 
• They said the franchise was not built to sustain success and could never make a 3-peat to the playoffs, and Hard Knocks would prove too much distraction. Made the playoffs. 
• They said the Stealers were really really mad this year and they would take back over the division, and we couldnt do 4 in a row. Made the playoffs. 
• They said the Bengals were one of the most talented in the league, but the Stealers were EXTRA, UBER mad this year, so they couldnt possibly win the division and make the playoffs 5 times straight. Made the playoffs. 

If they say it every single year, eventually they'll be able to say "See! I was right!!"

All teams lose key players every year. The best ones just reload. And this team, right now, is one of the best ones. 

 

 

[Le Tigre]

LOL @ that group.  When the bubble headed bleach blonde sounds the most intelligent, it shows the NFLn is scraping the barrel for their experts. 

"Andre Smith leaves..." LOL.

 

[thezerawkid]

It's just lazy "journalism." Especially the comment about Andre leaving. He was an underachiever the entire time he was here, and we loaded a potential big upgrade through the draft to replace him. Last year.

Also, the receiver thing...I mean, the pundits may actually end up having a point in the end. But, I have my doubts. Also, nobody seems to acknowledge that we have arguably the best tight end in the game right now (right next to Gronk) nor that we have a tailback who only a season ago caught 49 passes. It's the popular, overused sentiment that after AJ Green this offense just doesn't have anyone who can effectively catch the ball. All these talking head expert idiots regurgitate the same load of bullshit over and over.

I remember loving SportCenter...now, I never watch it. 

[-GoBengals-]

38 minutes ago, thezerawkid said:

It's just lazy "journalism." Especially the comment about Andre leaving. He was an underachiever the entire time he was here, and we loaded a potential big upgrade through the draft to replace him. Last year.

Also, the receiver thing...I mean, the pundits may actually end up having a point in the end. But, I have my doubts. Also, nobody seems to acknowledge that we have arguably the best tight end in the game right now (right next to Gronk) nor that we have a tailback who only a season ago caught 49 passes. It's the popular, overused sentiment that after AJ Green this offense just doesn't have anyone who can effectively catch the ball. All these talking head expert idiots regurgitate the same load of bullshit over and over.

I remember loving SportCenter...now, I never watch it. 

i have issues with the tailback portion of this. catching 49 passes is what gets players like Gio's careers shortened.. he already got broken ribs and fucked up in recent seasons and got knocked the fuck out in the playoff game as well. The things i complain about the offense are the things that over-use players, and leave players in positions to get hurt or have turnovers. Everyone shat all over grasham and his fumbles, but the dude was catching a 1-5 yard pass and trying to drag 2-3 defenders to get more yards, get to the endzone, get that first down, and occasionally got stripped in that process, its not like he was running free and dropping the ball or being sloppy with his hold. he was grinding and fighting for yards and was getting shit on for it. I think Boyd will be solid, in time, Lafell is a guy, nothing special, averages 600 yards and 3 TD's a year, and hasnt scored a TD since 2014. not that sanu and jones were constantly lighting it up, but my point is lafell i no improvement talent wise, and is now new to the system as well. 

It comes down to Green and Eifert. if both are healthy life is good, if either or both arent playing, things are a LOT easier on the defense. 

The RB's lives are also far far better if eifert and green are healthy as is will typically equal one less player in the box, and eifert and green both require special attention.

 

 

[|Lucid|]

6 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

i have issues with the tailback portion of this. catching 49 passes is what gets players like Gio's careers shortened.. he already got broken ribs and fucked up in recent seasons and got knocked the fuck out in the playoff game as well. The things i complain about the offense are the things that over-use players, and leave players in positions to get hurt or have turnovers. Everyone shat all over grasham and his fumbles, but the dude was catching a 1-5 yard pass and trying to drag 2-3 defenders to get more yards, get to the endzone, get that first down, and occasionally got stripped in that process, its not like he was running free and dropping the ball or being sloppy with his hold. he was grinding and fighting for yards and was getting shit on for it. I think Boyd will be solid, in time, Lafell is a guy, nothing special, averages 600 yards and 3 TD's a year, and hasnt scored a TD since 2014. not that sanu and jones were constantly lighting it up, but my point is lafell i no improvement talent wise, and is now new to the system as well. 

It comes down to Green and Eifert. if both are healthy life is good, if either or both arent playing, things are a LOT easier on the defense. 

The RB's lives are also far far better if eifert and green are healthy as is will typically equal one less player in the box, and eifert and green both require special attention.

 

 

 

Gresham wasn't getting thrown deeper passes because he couldn't be trusted to throw deeper to. And yes, he did fumble and other knuckleheaded things. Funny how Eifert doesn't seem to have the same problems and gets plenty of passes down the seam. All that shit we always wondered why Grasham wasn't getting the chance to do all of a sudden was getting done with a rookie. Strange, huh?

[-GoBengals-]

Just now, Lucid said:

 

Gresham wasn't getting thrown deeper passes because he couldn't be trusted to throw deeper to. And yes, he did fumble and other knuckleheaded things. Funny how Eifert doesn't seem to have the same problems and gets plenty of passes down the seam. All that shit we always wondered why Grasham wasn't getting the chance to do all of a sudden is getting done with a rookie. Strange, huh?

I like eifert a lot more, glad we got him, i didnt like the pick at the time but i am a big fan, he is top 1-3 TE in the league no doubt, but since we are bringing up things i wasnt even talking about, eifert has missed twice as many games in 3 seasons as gresham has in 6.

more things i wasnt talking about: gresham has more yards, touchdowns, and catches in if first year, first two years and first three years than eifert. but you know, Gresham DID average 1 fumlbe per year... so..

so anyway, not sure why you brought up deep balls to gresham, im talking about the entire design of the offense, not gresham, my point about gresham was the same as my point about Gio, is the scheme puts talented players in a non-favorable spot.

Every team takes X amount of deep shots and due to breakdowns every team takes X amount of check downs, my issue is with everything in between, our attempts of passes in the 10-20 yards range is typically always bottom half of the league, which is bonkers considering the talent on the roster. The offense is signed for quick, and safe decisions, make 1-2 reads and check it down. 

We have the defense to support taking more shots and taking more risks, I would like to see that happen. < - -this is my end point.

[|Lucid|]

21 minutes ago, GoBengals said:

I like eifert a lot more, glad we got him, i didnt like the pick at the time but i am a big fan, he is top 1-3 TE in the league no doubt, but since we are bringing up things i wasnt even talking about, eifert has missed twice as many games in 3 seasons as gresham has in 6.

more things i wasnt talking about: gresham has more yards, touchdowns, and catches in if first year, first two years and first three years than eifert. but you know, Gresham DID average 1 fumlbe per year... so..

so anyway, not sure why you brought up deep balls to gresham, im talking about the entire design of the offense, not gresham, my point about gresham was the same as my point about Gio, is the scheme puts talented players in a non-favorable spot.

Every team takes X amount of deep shots and due to breakdowns every team takes X amount of check downs, my issue is with everything in between, our attempts of passes in the 10-20 yards range is typically always bottom half of the league, which is bonkers considering the talent on the roster. The offense is signed for quick, and safe decisions, make 1-2 reads and check it down. 

We have the defense to support taking more shots and taking more risks, I would like to see that happen. < - -this is my end point.

 

These assertions have been refuted with stats many times over but you never seem to respond when it happens. Andy Dalton had 52 completions of 20+ yards last year. That puts him at #13 in the league. Keep in mind that Aaron Rogers at #8 had 55 and Carson Palmer at #3 had 65. Also keep in mind Andy was injured for 3 games last season. Andy was #8 in passes over 40yds completed last year with 11. Carson Palmer, once again at #3 had 15. Again, Andy sat for 3 games due to a broken thumb.

Do we have a "high flying" verticle offense? Maybe not, but we are right up there with the pack leaders and FAR from Dink and Dunk as you would like to make it seem.

[-GoBengals-]

Just now, Lucid said:

 

These assertions have been refuted with stats many times over but never seem to respond when it happens. Andy Dalton had 52 completions of 20+ yards last year. That puts him at #13 in the league. Keep in ming that Aaron Rogers at #8 had 55 and Carson Palmer at #3 had 65. Also keep in mind Andy was injured for 3 games last season. Andy was #8 in passes over 40yds completed last year with 11. Carson Palmer, once again at #3 had 11. Again, Andy sat for 3 games due to a broken thumb.

Do we have a "high flying" verticle offense? Maybe not, but we are right up there with the pack leaders and FAR from Dink and Dunk as you would like to make it seem.

yes, they are refuted with the same misinformation every time.

i dont really care how far the RB or WR ran after the catch, im talking about the throws, aka the risks, i posted the top QB's pass attempts by distance in the air many times, and everytime someone says the same copy and pasted response you just put, and posts nfl.com stats of the result of the play, which is, again, not what im talking about. I am talking about the offensive scheme, in which, by design, is made up of a bunch of safe short routes and passes, which is all fun and games until you either A: play a great defense, or B: get to the playoffs where you either have to get into a shootout, or , refer back to A: face a great defense. At which point we are averaging roughly 12 points a game, but that includes this past one when we had 16 points, brining that average up, AND that counts the defensive touchdown against the texans. So we are averaging about 10 points a game in the playoffs. 

Average yards in the air per attempt: (narrowed to QB who threw for at least 1500 yards to weed out guys who played only a few games)

2014: 19th

2013: 24th

2012: 27th

2011: 18th

 

Marvin has built a playoff machine, a playoff machine that unless we score and get s bad team that slips into the playoffs, we are going to have a tough time winning. 

i want to win playoff games, i want to see the bengals in a superbowl.. there is a reason we have one of the lowest attendances in the NFL and have made the playoffs 5 straight years...i want to win for real now. its not 2003 anymore. 

[Jason]

What difference does it make if a pass goes for 25 yards because it's a 25 yard pass with no YAC, or a 10 yard pass with 15 yards of YAC?

Especially if the 10 yard pass is completed a higher % of the time?

And Dalton was #2 in the entire NFL in yards per attempt last year, so whatever he did worked.  Well.

[|Lucid|]

12 hours ago, GoBengals said:

yes, they are refuted with the same misinformation every time.

i dont really care how far the RB or WR ran after the catch, im talking about the throws, aka the risks, i posted the top QB's pass attempts by distance in the air many times, and everytime someone says the same copy and pasted response you just put, and posts nfl.com stats of the result of the play, which is, again, not what im talking about. I am talking about the offensive scheme, in which, by design, is made up of a bunch of safe short routes and passes, which is all fun and games until you either A: play a great defense, or B: get to the playoffs where you either have to get into a shootout, or , refer back to A: face a great defense. At which point we are averaging roughly 12 points a game, but that includes this past one when we had 16 points, brining that average up, AND that counts the defensive touchdown against the texans. So we are averaging about 10 points a game in the playoffs. 

Average yards in the air per attempt: (narrowed to QB who threw for at least 1500 yards to weed out guys who played only a few games)

2014: 19th

2013: 24th

2012: 27th

2011: 18th

 

Marvin has built a playoff machine, a playoff machine that unless we score and get s bad team that slips into the playoffs, we are going to have a tough time winning. 

i want to win playoff games, i want to see the bengals in a superbowl.. there is a reason we have one of the lowest attendances in the NFL and have made the playoffs 5 straight years...i want to win for real now. its not 2003 anymore. 

 

Could you show me where you obtained these stats from? Mine are from NFL.com, but they don't keep yards in the air per attempt. I found this site : http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2015/ that lists Andy's "Air Yards" percentage at 54.9% (meaning 54.9% of his passing yards traveled through the air). I can't filter out the QB's who didn't play a meaningful number of snaps but some prominent QB's stand out.

Russel Wilson - 54.8%

Eli Manning - 52.7%

Tony Romo 51.2%

Drew Brees 50.6%

Tom Brady 49.7%

Aaron Rodgers 47.0%

Joe Flacco 46.7%

Kolin Kaepernick 46.5%

 

All of these guys had a lower % of "Air Yards" than Andy Dalton in 2015. At least according to the people that collated these stats. Not sure if that is more related to "system" or QB ability, but more importantly, I'm not sure how this correlates to winning, or "real winning" however you want to put it.

[T-Dub]

I think the most important stat to remember here is that Dalton is a big doody-head and Carson had way, way better hair.

 

*crosses arms*

 

*stomps around*

 

*angry huffing intensifies*

[|SF2|]

12 hours ago, Lucid said:

 

Could you show me where you obtained these stats from? Mine are from NFL.com, but they don't keep yards in the air per attempt. I found this site : http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-air-yards/2015/ that lists Andy's "Air Yards" percentage at 54.9% (meaning 54.9% of his passing yards traveled through the air). I can't filter out the QB's who didn't play a meaningful number of snaps but some prominent QB's stand out.

Russel Wilson - 54.8%

Eli Manning - 52.7%

Tony Romo 51.2%

Drew Brees 50.6%

Tom Brady 49.7%

Aaron Rodgers 47.0%

Joe Flacco 46.7%

Kolin Kaepernick 46.5%

 

All of these guys had a lower % of "Air Yards" than Andy Dalton in 2015. At least according to the people that collated these stats. Not sure if that is more related to "system" or QB ability, but more importantly, I'm not sure how this correlates to winning, or "real winning" however you want to put it.

Kind of a weird stat to be honest.  Some receivers will fight for every YAC and others will fall down or run out of bounds rather than be hit.

[Enon Bengal]

I think what Go is trying to say is that a ball thrown sixty yards down field to Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed is way more exciting than a twenty yard pass and sixty yard run by AJ Green...

...or maybe not.

[T-Dub]

NFL Network:  Shameless greedy cash-grab or forgettable blather sucking hind teat to ESPN?

[Le Tigre]

Thou sayest.

[fluhartz]

On July 28, 2016 at 7:48 PM, Jason said:

What difference does it make if a pass goes for 25 yards because it's a 25 yard pass with no YAC, or a 10 yard pass with 15 yards of YAC?

Especially if the 10 yard pass is completed a higher % of the time?

And Dalton was #2 in the entire NFL in yards per attempt last year, so whatever he did worked.  Well.

 

It gives someone with an agenda a leg to sand on...that's about it.

Andy will suck until he has won his like 3rd out 4th Super Bowl in Go's eyes (maybe not even then) ..... It's ok, I just ignore it now

10 hours ago, Enon Bengal said:

I think what Go is trying to say is that a ball thrown sixty yards down field to Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed is way more exciting than a twenty yard pass and sixty yard run by AJ Green...

...or maybe not.

ha ha ha.... right

[whodey365]

The Bengals were 10-2 before Dalton went down. That's the only stat I care about. 

[Hooky]

I seriously think that ESPN and NFL Network sent an e -mail to everybody titled "What to do if the Bengals come up in conversation when you're talking about other teams.". 

Text: Simple. Just say that you don't think they'll be the same team this year. Sanu and Jones are gone and Hue is in Cleveland now. For extra credit, throw in that they won't make the playoffs this year.

[CincyInDC]

"Bengals 2016 Season Outlook" is just as bad.  Just don't bother.

[PatternMaster]

23 minutes ago, CincyInDC said:

"Bengals 2016 Season Outlook" is just as bad.  Just don't bother.

7-9... I couldn't believe it. They give us no respect. The NFLN is a joke anyway, they cater to the same teams every year. 

They hype up teams with big fan bases like the Stealers and Cowboys for obvious reasons, but they are seriously underestimating the Bengals this year.

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, CincyInDC said:

"Bengals 2016 Season Outlook" is just as bad.  Just don't bother.

 

 

Stew pit 

[T-Dub]

Gotta love the same NFL that admitted it dicked the Bengals in the last playoff game pondering why the Bengals can't win in the postseason on the NFL network.

 

Gosh IDK Jim they must be cursed!!

[EnglishBengal]

23 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

 

Stew pit 

No comment, pair of dicks!