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O-line biggest concern of offseason?


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3 of the 5 starters return in 2017: Boling, Bodine and Fisher (assuming he starts at RT)

The 2 best players from 2016, Whitworth and Zeitler, are free agents.

I think Zeitler will be out of our price range. Lapham said we offered him a deal in the range of $5.5 million a year and he turned it down. He's the best guard available in free agency and will get paid around $10 million a year I'm guessing. It seems likely Whitworth comes back on a 1-2 year deal, especially considering how horrible Ogbuehi looked.

In a perfect world, Ogbuehi does a 180 and plays up to his draft position. Starts at left tackle and plays well. Move on from Whit and use the money on another position (maybe re-signing Zeitler.) I don't see the Bengals making that gamble based on his play in 2016. I think he'll spend the season on the bench.

Bodine is a poor player. He's had some solid games but for the most part he's been a liability. He needs to be upgraded. There are several guys in the draft who could be upgrades. Even if we draft them, I don't see them starting over the vet.

Who plays right guard? There are a few options: re-sign Zeitler, draft a guy, sign a free agent, start Fisher at right guard and draft a tackle.

There are so many different variables for basically every position other than LG.

What would you do to solidify the line in 2017? Other than fire Alexander.

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Firing alexander won't help anything.

-I don't know why the Bengals won't pay Zeitler.  They used a first round pick on him.  If they value him that much then they should pay him.  And if they don't value him that much they would not have paid him $8.1 million to play for us in '16.  Boling only makes $5.1 million in '17.  Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all still on their rookie contracts and will only make a $4.5 combined.  We could pay Whit $10 million and Zeitler $9 million and still have less than $29 million in our top 6 O-linemen.

-Have to re-sign Whit.  Hopefully a two year deal so that contract will come off the books the same time we have to re-sign either Fisher or Ogbuehi.

-Draft a center.  '17 is the last year of Bodine's contract.  Even if we do not draft a rookie good enough to start we should be grooming a draft pick to start at Center in '18.

-Have to depend on Fisher starting somewhere in this year.  90% sure it will be RT, but we did have him playing all over the line in '15.

-Draft a couple of OTs in the mid to later rounds as insurance in case Ogbuehi does not improve.  I am not ready to write him off yet because he has not had a healthy training camp, but he has not shown enought that we can count on him ever being a solid starter.

-If we don't re-sign Zeitler then we have to sign a decent free agent.  

-If we don't sign either Zeitler or Whit then we are fucked.

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2 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Firing alexander won't help anything.

-I don't know why the Bengals won't pay Zeitler.  They used a first round pick on him.  If they value him that much then they should pay him.  And if they don't value him that much they would not have paid him $8.1 million to play for us in '16.  Boling only makes $5.1 million in '17.  Ogbuehi, Fisher, and Bodine are all still on their rookie contracts and will only make a $4.5 combined.  We could pay Whit $10 million and Zeitler $9 million and still have less than $29 million in our top 6 O-linemen.

-Have to re-sign Whit.  Hopefully a two year deal so that contract will come off the books the same time we have to re-sign either Fisher or Ogbuehi.

-Draft a center.  '17 is the last year of Bodine's contract.  Even if we do not draft a rookie good enough to start we should be grooming a draft pick to start at Center in '18.

-Have to depend on Fisher starting somewhere in this year.  90% sure it will be RT, but we did have him playing all over the line in '15.

-Draft a couple of OTs in the mid to later rounds as insurance in case Ogbuehi does not improve.  I am not ready to write him off yet because he has not had a healthy training camp, but he has not shown enought that we can count on him ever being a solid starter.

-If we don't re-sign Zeitler then we have to sign a decent free agent.  

-If we don't sign either Zeitler or Whit then we are fucked.

I agree with you.  For once. 

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On January 19, 2017 at 0:53 PM, VonBlade said:

After Rich, Willie, Levi etc, I'd always be against "moving on", especially from a player like Whit. Best LT in the business, locker room leader, pay the man.

Completely. There is no reason not to believe he can play at a high level for at least two years. I always recall Jackie Slater still playing at Pro Bowl levels when he was 40.

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On 1/19/2017 at 3:53 PM, VonBlade said:

After Rich, Willie, Levi etc, I'd always be against "moving on", especially from a player like Whit. Best LT in the business, locker room leader, pay the man.

 

+1.  You know he's probably going to take the hometown discount.  Whatever little heart this offense has shown has generally come from Whit.  If moving him inside to guard will extend his career like it has so many other great OT's, so much the better.

And for pity's sake hire an OL coach who will promote the best player and not the best note-taker in class or whatever-the-hell criteria had him touting the like of Livings or Roland over someone at least halfway capable.

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22 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

+1.  You know he's probably going to take the hometown discount.  Whatever little heart this offense has shown has generally come from Whit.  If moving him inside to guard will extend his career like it has so many other great OT's, so much the better.

And for pity's sake hire an OL coach who will promote the best player and not the best note-taker in class or whatever-the-hell criteria had him touting the like of Livings or Roland over someone at least halfway capable.

I don't know if switching to OG will extend his career at all.  It is actually much more physically demanding to play OG than OT.  he would take more of a beating moving inside.

As for Alexander, until Mathis got injured in '09 he was starting in front of Livings, and other than that Alexander did not have anyone on the bench better than Roland and Livings.

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I don't know if switching to OG will extend his career at all.  It is actually much more physically demanding to play OG than OT.  he would take more of a beating moving inside.
As for Alexander, until Mathis got injured in '09 he was starting in front of Livings, and other than that Alexander did not have anyone on the bench better than Roland and Livings.

It's more demanding but less agility u need. Either way resign him then hire him as coach of oline.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

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I truly believe the 2016 Bengals mirror the 2015 Falcons...

A talented team that was hamstrung by some injuries and poor offensive line play.

The Falcons signed Alex Mack... got healthy... had a good draft and look at them now..

The Bengals have a talented team... this offseason is crucial

The cupboard is by no means bare... add Jackson and Billings to the D... further development of Boyd, Core and Erickson... add an offensive lineman or 2 and we are in business....

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1 hour ago, Tigers Johnson said:

I truly believe the 2016 Bengals mirror the 2015 Falcons...

A talented team that was hamstrung by some injuries and poor offensive line play.

The Falcons signed Alex Mack... got healthy... had a good draft and look at them now..

The Bengals have a talented team... this offseason is crucial

The cupboard is by no means bare... add Jackson and Billings to the D... further development of Boyd, Core and Erickson... add an offensive lineman or 2 and we are in business....

I see what you are saying but there are some differences between the Bengals and the Falcons:

  • The Falcons have a GM that comes from an organization that knows how to win, the Bengals have Mike Brown. They trade starting caliber players like Alex Mack and are aggressive in FA, can't say the same for the Bengals. The Bengals draft Mo Sanu, develop him and then let him go to Falcons so he can help them win playoff games and get to the Super Bowl. 
  • The Falcons are a preferred destination of NFL FA, the Bengals are considered a last stop destination where FA go to get that last NFL check. I know people who are born, raised, and never lived anywhere else love Cincinnati but most NFL players don't see it that way. If they have to choose between Cincinnati and city on a coast or with 5+ million people, they are choosing the latter. 
  • They have a QB that selected #1 overall, a guy they call Matty Ice because he plays well in big games. The Bengals have Andy Dalton, he's good in the regular season but he isn't known to play his best when the bright lights are on. 
  • The Falcons are coached by Dan Quinn, a young energetic HC that was the mastermind behind the Seahawks back to back Super Bowl appearances by having a fast and aggressive defense. The Bengals have Marvin Lewis, whose claim to fame is having the worst playoff record in the history of any NFL HC and being the mastermind of the 2000 Ravens defense, yes 17 years ago. 
  • The Falcons actually let their young draft picks play, of their starting 22 players 13 of them have been draft picks that have 3 years of experience or less. They target guys that fit their system, draft them and let them play, they use free agency to sign proven vets that can play in case of injury. The Bengals draft talented players and let them sit while vets continue to start despite their mediocre at best performance because the coaching staff doesn't trust young guys to not screw it up. It's an old outdated model that clearly isn't working, but it what Marvin prefers so it's what we got. 

Besides that the Bengals are very similar to Falcons and could easily find themselves in the 2018 Super Bowl...or not. 

I just don't believe the FO and coaching staff is going to change much of anything when it comes to their approach of how they operate, despite the facts that it's not getting the desired results. They continue to do what they have always done and get same results, if they are lucky. 

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18 minutes ago, turningpoint said:

I agree, but if Zeitler leaves.. I think boling moves to RG....Whit at LG and CedO to LT.

I would hope they don't just give Ced a starting spot, especially at LT because he wants to play their and he was a first round pick. He's not very good at playing football, maybe he can improve but as of right now he doesn't deserve to be a starter for a legit NFL team that wants to win a Super Bowl. 

If Zietler leaves I would hope they would keep everybody at their current positions and replace him proven FA vet, someone on the roster like TJ Johnson or Westerman, or draft a guy like Elflein/Pocic/Freeney early in the draft. Moving 3 guys to replace 1 doesn't seem like the best idea to me as Boling and Whit can still play good football when healthy. 

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If they lose Zeitler, which sadly I think they do, then a guy I like is Asiata out of Utah.  Big kid who moves well for his size.  Right now he has a 3rd round grade from what I have seen, but he may move up.

I think Whit will be a priority this offseason, along with Dre.  I will be flat shocked if Whit is not here in 2017.

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48 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

  • The Falcons actually let their young draft picks play, of their starting 22 players 13 of them have been draft picks that have 3 years of experience or less. They target guys that fit their system, draft them and let them play, they use free agency to sign proven vets that can play in case of injury. The Bengals draft talented players and let them sit while vets continue to start despite their mediocre at best performance because the coaching staff doesn't trust young guys to not screw it up. It's an old outdated model that clearly isn't working, but it what Marvin prefers so it's what we got. 

Only reason the Falcons have more young draft picks playing early is because their roster was garbage over the last 3 years when they only won a total of 18 games.  

Bengals start as many rookies as most other good teams in the league.  There is nothing outdated about this model.  When the falcons were winning their division three years in a row from '10 through '12 they only had one player who started as a rookie.

Only reason so many of the Bengals draft picks sit for a year or two is because they have better players in front of them.

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1 hour ago, PatternMaster said:

The Bengals draft Mo Sanu, develop him and then let him go to Falcons so he can help them win playoff games and get to the Super Bowl. 

2016 Falcons pay over $6 million a year for a free agent #2 WR who produced 653 yards and 4 tds.

2016 Bengals pay $2.5 million for a free agent #2 WR who produced 862 yards and 6 tds.

 

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5 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

2016 Falcons pay over $6 million a year for a free agent #2 WR who produced 653 yards and 4 tds.

2016 Bengals pay $2.5 million for a free agent #2 WR who produced 862 yards and 6 tds.

 

That's "Benga-nomics" at it's shiniest example. Unfortunately, for those economic wins, there have been too many disasters.

 

 

.. yes, I just made that term up.

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Two years ago, the ATL organization was looking at having to fire their GM for incompetence (fan pressures mostly). In November, he gets an extension. Did he suddenly learn how to be a GM? 

Essentially the same damn team coming off 6-10 and 8-8 seasons (and no center or #2 WR will make that much difference) and now they have hit the big time. It's the developing cycle...not some magical concoction of firing everyone or cutting everyone...which made this year happen for them.

And if the expected happens and they lose this SB...then it will all go back to square one with this era of "win it all or you're bums" fandom.

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Only reason the Falcons have more young draft picks playing early is because their roster was garbage over the last 3 years when they only won a total of 18 games.  

Bengals start as many rookies as most other good teams in the league.  There is nothing outdated about this model.  When the falcons were winning their division three years in a row from '10 through '12 they only had one player who started as a rookie.

Only reason so many of the Bengals draft picks sit for a year or two is because they have better players in front of them.

You are right, Bengals are doing everything the right way and their Super Bowl trophies prove it. Clearly, Marvin Lewis his staff are on the cutting edge of how to evaluate, draft, and develop young players. 

The Falcons have quality vets on their current roster but instead choose to give the young players a chance to play and they are going to the Super Bowl. Meanwhile the Bengals have some quality vets and let the young guys sit and learn, they haven't won a playoff game in 27 years, a lot has changed since then.

The reason why the Bengals draft picks sit for a year or two is because the HC doesn't want to play them, he would rather play a veteran and let the draft pick learn from the bench. 

1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

2016 was Ryans 9th season in the NFL.  He had ONE playoff victory in the first 8.  

That is one more than our current QB, I would take one over zero any day of the week. 

1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

2016 Falcons pay over $6 million a year for a free agent #2 WR who produced 653 yards and 4 tds.

2016 Bengals pay $2.5 million for a free agent #2 WR who produced 862 yards and 6 tds.

 

They also have the best WR in the NFL and two RB's that catch a lot of passes out of the backfield, so that has something to do with Sanu's stats. However, they also recognize talent and will pay a premium for it. I would have rather had Sanu on the roster instead of $3.5 million dollars on the cap going unused, especially when you consider how much time and energy was spent in developing and training him to be a quality NFL player. Why spend the draft pick, energy, and time developing young talent and then let them leave during the prime of their career? You are essentially relegating your franchise into a farm system for the other franchises that are willing to pay market prices to acquire top talent. Maybe because most NFL owners are billionaire businessmen who understand you have spend and invest money to make more money and the Brown family is a football family that uses the Bengals franchise as their main source of income? Either way letting quality players walk after their rookie deals because a few million dollars in is foolish, especially when you consider the revenue sharing and increase in the salary cap that makes it a level playing field for all franchises. 

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