O-line biggest concern of offseason?

[fredtoast]

35 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

You are right, Bengals are doing everything the right way and their Super Bowl trophies prove it. Clearly, Marvin Lewis his staff are on the cutting edge of how to evaluate, draft, and develop young players. 

You know when I realize I have won an argument?  When the person i am correcting refuses to address what I actually said and instead makes up a strawman that he can knock down.

I never say that everything the Bengals do is correct, but that doees not mean I am just going to let you make up stuff that is not true and claim it is fact.

[fredtoast]

38 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

The Falcons have quality vets on their current roster but instead choose to give the young players a chance to play and they are going to the Super Bowl. Meanwhile the Bengals have some quality vets and let the young guys sit and learn, they haven't won a playoff game in 27 years, a lot has changed since then.

The reason why the Bengals draft picks sit for a year or two is because the HC doesn't want to play them, he would rather play a veteran and let the draft pick learn from the bench. 

The Falcons do exactly the same thing as the Bengals.  They play their best players.  If the Falcons really had a different stargtegy about using young players then they would have had more than one rookie start when they were winning their division every year, but back then when they had a deep roster they only started one rookie in three years.  The reason they have more young players starting for them now is because their roster talenty level took a dip over the last three years when they only won a total of 18 games.

See what I did there.  i posted actual facts to back up my position.  All you do is make broad claims about the Bengals with nothing to back it up.  I just created a thread that shows that the Bengals play about the same number of young talent as all the other winning teams.  you should check it out instead of just making stuff up.

 

That is one more than our current QB, I would take one over zero any day of the week. 

 

 

What does that have to do with your false claim that Ryan has a reputation of playing well in big games?

I know, it has nothing to do with that claim.  since I proved you wrong you just changed the subject instead of admitting that you were wrong.

 

 

[fredtoast]

49 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

 

 Why spend the draft pick, energy, and time developing young talent and then let them leave during the prime of their career? You are essentially relegating your franchise into a farm system for the other franchises that are willing to pay market prices to acquire top talent. Maybe because most NFL owners are billionaire businessmen who understand you have spend and invest money to make more money and the Brown family is a football family that uses the Bengals franchise as their main source of income? Either way letting quality players walk after their rookie deals because a few million dollars in is foolish, especially when you consider the revenue sharing and increase in the salary cap that makes it a level playing field for all franchises. 

Why are you acting like the Bengals are the only team in the league that ever lets a good player walk?  If the Bengals are the only team to let good players walk then how can you argue that every year there are good free agents out there that the Bengals should sign?

The Bengals have spent over the league salary cap each of the last two years.  It would have been impossible for them to pay all the free agents they let walk.  Instead they do what all other good teams do.  they let some pf their expensive vets leave and replaced them with either players they had groomed to step into starting positions or cheaper options from free agency.

When Belichick get rid of a veteran he is a genius.  When the Bengals do it they are fools.

The Bengals just won big time in free agency by replacing Sanu with LaFell.  sannu never produced as much as LaFell either while he was heer with the bengals or after he moved on to the Falcons.  It boggles my mind that anyone would claim they would rather pay more money for less production.

You claim that the Bengals always lose their best players in free agency, but exactly how many can you list over the last 6 years since Joseph left?

[|High School Harry|]

[Le Tigre]

Never mind, Fred...like talking to brick walls. Every previously fumble-bum franchise which gets on a season-long roll is instantly the diagram which the Bengals should copy. If any of the experts here would have said the Atlanta Falcons were odds-on favorites to get to this SB before this season began, they would be lying. There were absolutely no indications that a franchise coming off 6-10 and 8-8 seasons were even going to the playoffs, let alone this far. 

Not saying they are lightning in a bottle only, but not the finely crafted masterpiece they are being made out to be.

[fredtoast]

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Never mind, Fred...like talking to brick walls. Every previously fumble-bum franchise which gets on a season-long roll is instantly the diagram which the Bengals should copy. If any of the experts here would have said the Atlanta Falcons were odds-on favorites to get to this SB before this season began, they would be lying. There were absolutely no indications that a franchise coming off 6-10 and 8-8 seasons were even going to the playoffs, let alone this far. 

Not saying they are lightning in a bottle only, but not the finely crafted masterpiece they are being made out to be.

 

I actually feel the Bengals should be a little more aggressive in free agency, but so many people here ignore every move the Bengals ever make and every bad contract any other team ever gives out.

They act like they would somehow be happier if the Bengals tried and failed, but that is just a lie.  They bitch and squeal just as loudly about a bad signing as they do no signing.

 

 

[T-Dub]

1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

 

I actually feel the Bengals should be a little more aggressive in free agency, but so many people here ignore every move the Bengals ever make and every bad contract any other team ever gives out.

They act like they would somehow be happier if the Bengals tried and failed, but that is just a lie.  They bitch and squeal just as loudly about a bad signing as they do no signing.

 

 

 

#teamslikethePatriots

 

[PatternMaster]

16 hours ago, fredtoast said:

The Falcons do exactly the same thing as the Bengals.  They play their best players.  If the Falcons really had a different stargtegy about using young players then they would have had more than one rookie start when they were winning their division every year, but back then when they had a deep roster they only started one rookie in three years.  The reason they have more young players starting for them now is because their roster talenty level took a dip over the last three years when they only won a total of 18 games.

See what I did there.  i posted actual facts to back up my position.  All you do is make broad claims about the Bengals with nothing to back it up.  I just created a thread that shows that the Bengals play about the same number of young talent as all the other winning teams.  you should check it out instead of just making stuff up.

What does that have to do with your false claim that Ryan has a reputation of playing well in big games?

I know, it has nothing to do with that claim.  since I proved you wrong you just changed the subject instead of admitting that you were wrong.

 

 

The Falcons don't do the exact same thing as the Bengals, if you repeat that life enough it doesn't make it true. Their FO is structured different, the owner is more progressive, their HC is more energetic and knowledgeable about what it takes to win big games in today's NFL.  

The Falcons philosophy changed when they changed head coaches, they fired Mike Smith(one of Marvin's coaching buddies) despite his regular season success and brought in a younger, more energetic HC. This new HC has decided to go with youth over experience and it's paid off by them making it two the Super Bowl in second year at HC. They didn't reward his previous success with loyalty, they saw the team was regressing and his philosophy was out-dated so they got a new HC with a more modern approach to coaching in the NFL and it's working. They have a deep roster now, former Pro Bowlers on the bench providing depth to young players that are more athletic. 

Since you want to talk about facts, how about the fact that Matt Ryan has a playoff record of 3-4, compared to Dalton's of 0-4, you can decide which one is better. Ask any objective observer of the NFL who is better and it consensus will be Ryan. Here is a link to a website that list the playoff record of every NFL QB since 1978, guess who is dead last on the list...that's right Andy Dalton, he and Marvin are the worst HC/QB combo when it comes to the playoffs in the HISTORY OF THE NFL. 

Ryan has a career playoff QB rating of 98.8% with a 16/7 td/int ratio and a 68.8% completion percentage, while Dalton has a career playoff QB rating of 57.8% with a 1/6 td/int ratio and a 55.7% completion percentage. These are the facts, the facts show that Ryan is a good QB in playoff games, while you can't say the same for Dalton. 

 

[PatternMaster]

17 hours ago, fredtoast said:

Why are you acting like the Bengals are the only team in the league that ever lets a good player walk?  If the Bengals are the only team to let good players walk then how can you argue that every year there are good free agents out there that the Bengals should sign?

The Bengals have spent over the league salary cap each of the last two years.  It would have been impossible for them to pay all the free agents they let walk.  Instead they do what all other good teams do.  they let some pf their expensive vets leave and replaced them with either players they had groomed to step into starting positions or cheaper options from free agency.

When Belichick get rid of a veteran he is a genius.  When the Bengals do it they are fools.

The Bengals just won big time in free agency by replacing Sanu with LaFell.  sannu never produced as much as LaFell either while he was heer with the bengals or after he moved on to the Falcons.  It boggles my mind that anyone would claim they would rather pay more money for less production.

You claim that the Bengals always lose their best players in free agency, but exactly how many can you list over the last 6 years since Joseph left?

I've never said that, teams let good players leave for many different reasons. However some of those teams have a proven track record of success and a system in place that produces Super Bowl victories so they can justify their decisions with their track record. Also, there are many inept franchises with clueless owners that let good players leave because of a myriad of reasons. Saying the Bengals won big time because they let Sanu and Jones leave and replaced with Boyd and LaFell is a matter of opinion. Maybe the offense would have a had more success this season with Sanu and Jones, guys who know the offense and had a comfort level with Dalton, especially when you consider the injuries to Eifert and Green. But no one will ever truly know, I will say that LaFell played well for his first season and his production out performed his salary, imo. 

12 hours ago, fredtoast said:

 

I actually feel the Bengals should be a little more aggressive in free agency, but so many people here ignore every move the Bengals ever make and every bad contract any other team ever gives out.

They act like they would somehow be happier if the Bengals tried and failed, but that is just a lie.  They bitch and squeal just as loudly about a bad signing as they do no signing.

 

Most disgruntled fans want to see this organization make changes because the way it's currently constructed is not and has not worked, no playoff victories in 26 years is horrible. A HC with a 0-7 playoff record, the WORST in NFL history, should be enough to get you fired from most competitive NFL franchises but not this one. 

13 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Never mind, Fred...like talking to brick walls. Every previously fumble-bum franchise which gets on a season-long roll is instantly the diagram which the Bengals should copy. If any of the experts here would have said the Atlanta Falcons were odds-on favorites to get to this SB before this season began, they would be lying. There were absolutely no indications that a franchise coming off 6-10 and 8-8 seasons were even going to the playoffs, let alone this far. 

Not saying they are lightning in a bottle only, but not the finely crafted masterpiece they are being made out to be.

The Falcons went 6-1 last year and lost their next 5 games by a total of 21 points, they finished the season 8-8 and were the 7th best team in their conference. Being that the top 6 teams go to the playoffs they weren't that far off, so saying no one expected them to have success this year is not entirely true, they didn't go from 2-14 to the Super Bowl. Just because the Bengals are clueless about how to build a Super Bowl contending franchise and refuse to cut their losses while and try something new doesn't mean other franchises just lucked up and made it to the Super Bowl. 

The Falcons fired Mike Smith, 2 years after he took them to the NFC championship and had more success than Marvin has ever had, and hired a young, energetic coach that masterfully crafted the Seahawks championship defense. They drafted 6 defensive players in the first 5 rounds of the last two drafts and guess what they did, they started them all...they didn't put them on the bench behind the veteran free agents they signed. Guys like Dwight Freeney, Adrian Clayborn, DaShon Goldson, and Phillip Wheeler who have started for the majority of their careers on other teams are now backups to the young draft picks. They supplemented their youth with quality veterans to provide depth, while the Bengals do the exact opposite. They let guys like Pacman, Peko, Dansby, Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga start and let the young guys ride the bench and learn. 

 

[Madieu Superstar]

13 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

I've never said that, teams let good players leave for many different reasons. However some of those teams have a proven track record of success and a system in place that produces Super Bowl victories so they can justify their decisions with their track record. Also, there are many inept franchises with clueless owners that let good players leave because of a myriad of reasons. Saying the Bengals won big time because they let Sanu and Jones leave and replaced with Boyd and LaFell is a matter of opinion. Maybe the offense would have a had more success this season with Sanu and Jones, guys who know the offense and had a comfort level with Dalton, especially when you consider the injuries to Eifert and Green. But no one will ever truly know, I will say that LaFell played well for his first season and his production out performed his salary, imo. 

Most disgruntled fans want to see this organization make changes because the way it's currently constructed is not and has not worked, no playoff victories in 26 years is horrible. A HC with a 0-7 playoff record, the WORST in NFL history, should be enough to get you fired from most competitive NFL franchises but not this one. 

The Falcons went 6-1 last year and lost their next 5 games by a total of 21 points, they finished the season 8-8 and were the 7th best team in their conference. Being that the top 6 teams go to the playoffs they weren't that far off, so saying no one expected them to have success this year is not entirely true, they didn't go from 2-14 to the Super Bowl. Just because the Bengals are clueless about how to build a Super Bowl contending franchise and refuse to cut their losses while and try something new doesn't mean other franchises just lucked up and made it to the Super Bowl. 

The Falcons fired Mike Smith, 2 years after he took them to the NFC championship and had more success than Marvin has ever had, and hired a young, energetic coach that masterfully crafted the Seahawks championship defense. They drafted 6 defensive players in the first 5 rounds of the last two drafts and guess what they did, they started them all...they didn't put them on the bench behind the veteran free agents they signed. Guys like Dwight Freeney, Adrian Clayborn, DaShon Goldson, and Phillip Wheeler who have started for the majority of their careers on other teams are now backups to the young draft picks. They supplemented their youth with quality veterans to provide depth, while the Bengals do the exact opposite. They let guys like Pacman, Peko, Dansby, Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga start and let the young guys ride the bench and learn. 

 

I can't upvote this enough. The team fired their coach 2 seasons after going to the NFC Championship game. Marvin would be carried on the players shoukders if he ever got that far. He never will though. 

[fredtoast]

23 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

They drafted 6 defensive players in the first 5 rounds of the last two drafts and guess what they did, they started them all...they didn't put them on the bench behind the veteran free agents they signed. Guys like Dwight Freeney, Adrian Clayborn, DaShon Goldson, and Phillip Wheeler who have started for the majority of their careers on other teams are now backups to the young draft picks. They supplemented their youth with quality veterans to provide depth, while the Bengals do the exact opposite. They let guys like Pacman, Peko, Dansby, Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga start and let the young guys ride the bench and learn. 

 

Do you think the Falcons will start five more rookies over the next two yeras?

When the bengals had a poor roster they also played a lot more rookies ('10-Gresham, Dunlap, Shipley, Atkins, '11-Green, Dalton).And we re-built our defense with three free-agent starters in '11 (Lawson, Howard, Clements).

The Falcons are just doing exactly what the bengals did.  they are playing their best guys.  the only reason they are playing more young guys is because they had more holes in their roster.

The Bengals have gotten a combined 154 starts from the players they have taken in the last three drafts.  When you look at the good teams (top 10 in wins) over that span the Bengals have gotten more starts from their young draft picks than the Stealers (151), Broncos (148), Cardinals (147) and Seahawks (122).  The Bengals number does not include 34 starts from Ryan Hewitt because he was not drafted.  The Bengals plays their young guys as much or more than other good teams.

[fredtoast]

4 minutes ago, Madieu Superstar said:

I can't upvote this enough. The team fired their coach 2 seasons after going to the NFC Championship game. Marvin would be carried on the players shoukders if he ever got that far. He never will though. 

The Falcons fired Smith after he just won 10 games over two seasons.

 

if Marvin only wins four games this year then the Bengals will let him go just like the Falcons did with Smith after back-to-back bad seasons.

[Madieu Superstar]

58 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

The Falcons fired Smith after he just won 10 games over two seasons.

 

if Marvin only wins four games this year then the Bengals will let him go just like the Falcons did with Smith after back-to-back bad seasons.

He's been here 14 years and has 0 playoff wins. How is it rational to conclude that a losing season in 2017 is now cause for a legitimate termination? 

That legitimate termination should have occurred after the 2008 season. Any owner who has the goal of winning a super bowl would have done so. 

[Randle P McMurphy]

• They have a QB that selected #1 overall, a guy they call Matty Ice because he plays well in big games. The Bengals have Andy Dalton, he's good in the regular season but he isn't known to play his best when the bright lights are on. 

Uhh Matt Ryan was drafted 3rd overall not #1 overall.  Jake Long went #1 and Chris Long #2.  

[spicoli]

58 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

• They have a QB that selected #1 overall, a guy they call Matty Ice because he plays well in big games. The Bengals have Andy Dalton, he's good in the regular season but he isn't known to play his best when the bright lights are on. 

Uhh Matt Ryan was drafted 3rd overall not #1 overall.  Jake Long went #1 and Chris Long #2.  

meanwhile, Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick that needed development...

look, I'm not trying to hijack this thread by any means, but anyone who thinks AD is even remotely part of the problem here is an absolute moron....if he didn't prove that to you this year you're either fucking blind or you just wanna bitch to bitch.....just sayin.

now, carry on my wayward sons...

[Randle P McMurphy]

12 minutes ago, spicoli said:

meanwhile, Andy Dalton was a 2nd round pick that needed development...

look, I'm not trying to hijack this thread by any means, but anyone who thinks AD is even remotely part of the problem here is an absolute moron....if he didn't prove that to you this year you're either fucking blind or you just wanna bitch to bitch.....just sayin.

now, carry on my wayward sons...

Haha!  You're barking up the wrong tree.  I've not ever NOT supported Andy as far as who the starting QB should be.  Just pointing out that

Ryan wasn't an overall #1 pick.  Didn't even quote your name.  Settle down.  lol   

[SocalBengalEd]

Fred is the Andy Dalton of message boards.  Very mediocre and no one takes him seriously. 

[spicoli]

6 minutes ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Very mediocre and no one takes him seriously. 

what's funny is that people seem to hold it against the Ginger that he's not Matt Ryan, Ben Rapistburger, Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.....here's my question, who is? seriously.

[spicoli]

6 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

Haha!  You're barking up the wrong tree.  I've not ever NOT supported Andy as far as who the starting QB should be.  Just pointing out that

Ryan wasn't an overall #1 pick.  Didn't even quote your name.  Settle down.  lol   

I wan't even remotely talking to you slick so settle down there.

[Randle P McMurphy]

Just now, spicoli said:

I wan't even remotely talking to you slick so settle down there.

You "quoted" what I said.  That's the same as a direct response to what I said.  Or do you not comprehend that?

[spicoli]

 

3 minutes ago, Randle P McMurphy said:

You "quoted" what I said.  That's the same as a direct response to what I said.  Or do you not comprehend that?

I quoted you out of convenience simply because you opened a door for me, I wasn't really talking directly to you.

[Randle P McMurphy]

2 minutes ago, spicoli said:

 

I quoted you out of convenience because you opened a door, I wasn't really talking directly to you.

Understood now.  No way to tell unless you say so "slick"!  hahaha  It's all good.  

[|kennethmw|]

1 hour ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Fred is the Andy Dalton of message boards.  Very mediocre and no one takes him seriously. 

Then you must be Jemarcus.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

When I first made the statement that the 2016 Bengals are in the same position that 2015 Falcons were it wasn't a broad statement that the Bengals and Falcons do business the same...

 

It was a statement that the cupboard is not bare... there is a ton of talent and if the Bengals fill a couple of key holes (C,RT,LB) we could very easily be sitting where they are this time next year...

[PatternMaster]

3 hours ago, Tigers Johnson said:

When I first made the statement that the 2016 Bengals are in the same position that 2015 Falcons were it wasn't a broad statement that the Bengals and Falcons do business the same...

 

It was a statement that the cupboard is not bare... there is a ton of talent and if the Bengals fill a couple of key holes (C,RT,LB) we could very easily be sitting where they are this time next year...

I would agree if we didn't have the same HC, I have zero faith in the current coaching staff to win a playoff game not to mention getting to the Super Bowl. If the Bengals would have fired Marvin and gotten some new blood in here to give a fresh voice to this talented roster then I could agree with you. 

Imo, Marvin is stale goods, the NFL has passed him by and he doesn't have what it takes to get this team to a Super Bowl. He's a good coach, the players seem to like him and they play hard at times. However his lack of clock management skills, ultra conservative approach, inability to get his guys ready for big games consistently, inability to make in game adjustments, and reluctance to hold guys like Burfict and Pacman accountable ultimately doom him as a HC.