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Offseason Needs DE


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Ugh.  Status quo.  Why are we content with starting subpar players like Peko,  Bodine. MJ, Maualuga,  Williams.  I'll never understand.  4 3 primary function is to get to the quarterback which MJ is really bad at.  Like I said we can argue all day long.  We all have Opinions.  Shit I can argue Ogbuehi was really good this year no matter what facts you give me.   But we all know the truth.  

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29 minutes ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Ugh.  Status quo.  Why are we content with starting subpar players like Peko,  Bodine. MJ, Maualuga,  Williams.  I'll never understand.  4 3 primary function is to get to the quarterback which MJ is really bad at.  Like I said we can argue all day long.  We all have Opinions.  Shit I can argue Ogbuehi was really good this year no matter what facts you give me.   But we all know the truth.  

Hey I'm with you on that list of players not being too exciting, and some of them are guys I've been calling to be replaced myself. Here's the thing though, this isn't a video game and the NFL has a salary cap. For that reason, you can't be paying top tier players at every single position. You're not going to find a single team in the league that has 22 starters without any of them being subpar. Teams that do end up stacked for a year or two are quickly torn apart due to there being a salary cap and teams are unable to retain every good player and keep 22 All-Pro caliber players.

Let's talk about this using some simple common sense and on a broad spectrum, we don't even have to get into film or in depth statistics.

Peko should probably be replaced, he's been on a steady decline and hasn't been very good for a while now. I think the team was hoping Billings could learn for a year while Peko was under contract and hope to have Billings take over this year. Unfortunately, we could see Peko re-signed as he's a UFA because we don't really have any other known commodity or viable backup plan to play 4-3 NT. I wouldn't be sad to see the coaching staff put faith in Billings (if they feel he's ready to go) and not re-up on Peko. We aren't and shouldn't worry about an NT at #9.

Bodine improved as 2016 went on. I was one of the many flipping out when the coaching staff kept letting him get Andy blown up over and over and over. I really wanted him off the team all together after 2015 but I'm willing to give him a little bit more time as he seemed to start to "get it" last year. I'd love to see some competition brought in at C though. I don't think this would happen at #9 regardless.

Maualuga. Ugh. We just need to go in a different direction. He was once a decent to good situational player who has now become an even more situational player that isn't even very good most of the time in the situations he's supposed to specialize in. I'm ready for him to go. Ditto on Dansby, that experiment failed. We need some LBs badly. Get me some LB help all day, every day over being concerned at RDE.

Williams looked great in limited time a year or two ago, but WHOOPS, I guess that big extension could have been a big miss. This team misses Reggie. Both Iloka and Williams need to step it up in 2017. I'd take one of the top safeties if they're available on the board at #9 over trying to replace MJ immediately.

Ogbuehi was a dumpster fire. I'm sure everybody could see that. Zeitler could be gone, hopefully not, but he played reasonably well considering who he was in between. I'd rather use #9 on protecting Andy and opening up some running lanes on the right side of the line before worrying about MJ.

See, I'm not trying to say that MJ is some All-World, irreplaceable RDE. He just doesn't "suck ass", and we do have a few players/positions on the team that are surely closer to "sucking ass" than Michael Johnson. Give me a LB that can cover and tackle properly or someone to protect my damn QB @ #9 and let the MJ/Gilberry/whoever else ends up on the team do their rotation for another season. I've said before that I don't watch as much college ball as you guys, so you may be able to answer this one for me. Are there any LBs that could be on the board that would fit our scheme that can tackle worth a damn and possibly even, *gasp*, cover a TE or RB? The Bengals seem anti-good linebacker, so I'd love it if there's a great option there with our pick.

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56 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

We aren't and shouldn't worry about an NT at #9.

 

Well..  Why the hell not?  If there's nobody worth a top 10 draft pick, ok, that's one thing.  Otherwise we're talking about the center of the defense. How is that not worth at least as much as, for example, a #2 WR?

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1 minute ago, T-Dub said:

 

Well..  Why the hell not?  If there's nobody worth a top 10 draft pick, ok, that's one thing.  Otherwise we're talking about the center of the defense. How is that not worth at least as much as, for example, a #2 WR?

A few reasons.

Having an elite 3 tech is more important to the Bengals' scheme than having an elite 4-3 NT. Sure it would be great to have both, but it's not a high priority.

We drafted Billings last year and I expect to see him get some playing time. He should be looked at as our future in the middle.

The team seems to love Peko. I'm not so sure he's out of Cincinnati whether any of us want him to be or not.

Pat Sims is still under contract as well as DEs that we shift inside on passing downs.

We don't always have a true NT on the field at all times. How often do we roll without a #2 WR on offense?

We need linebackers that don't suck.

 

To me, those are reasons why A. #2 WR would be worth more than a 4-3 NT (unless there's some super freak, can't miss 4-3 NT in this draft that would fall to 9 that I don't know about), and B. other positions just seem waay more important with how the current Bengals are constructed.

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4 hours ago, SocalBengalEd said:

The RDE should have 10 sacks every year that's his primary function.       

well technically they got 7.5 sacks from the RDE position (MJ 3.5, Clark 4) so they really weren't that far off the mark.

 

 

 

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On 1/27/2017 at 8:17 PM, SocalBengalEd said:

Then you have guys like Michael Johnson.  Who are subpar at both

Among NFL DEs MJ ranked 10th in stuffs (tackle for loss on running play), 12th in solo tackles, 14th in tipped passes, 15th in QB hurries, and 19th in total tackles. 

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I do think DE is in need of upgrade sometime in the next couple years, but OL and LB are much bigger issues IMO.  I expect the Bengals will go with best player available in any area of need in the first few rounds of the draft.  If a DE they have graded high drops in their lap I expect they'll take him, but I would be least surprised by a high round LB pick.  The Bengals have one NFL caliber starting LB on the entire team.  That's not nearly good enough.  The Bengals can get by at DE with what they've got for another year, they can't at LB and OL.

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7 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

The Bengals have one NFL caliber starting LB on the entire team.  That's not nearly good enough. 

I agree 100%.  Need is bigger at OLB.  The only reason I see DE as a high possibility at #9 is because good 4-3 DEs are more rare than good 4-3 LBs.  That is why 4-3 DEs are more expensive in free agency then 4-3 LBs.

All of this talk about the draft is really meaningless until after free agency is over.  Free agency start at the beginning of March and the draft is not until the end of April.  I honestly think we will address LB in free agency just because that is a lower cost position.  We did a good job rebuilding our LB corps in 2011 with Manny lawson and Thomas Howard, but they were young and athletic.  Recently all we have signed are older guys like Harrison, Hawk, and Dansby.  But I have to admit that when we signed Dansby i thought we were doing a great job filling one of our biggest holes, a LB who could cover.

If we don't re-sign both Zeitler and Whitworth I think we may also sign a lower cost veteran O-lineman to start at OG.

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6 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

I agree 100%.  Need is bigger at OLB.  The only reason I see DE as a high possibility at #9 is because good 4-3 DEs are more rare than good 4-3 LBs.  That is why 4-3 DEs are more expensive in free agency then 4-3 LBs.

All of this talk about the draft is really meaningless until after free agency is over.  Free agency start at the beginning of March and the draft is not until the end of April.  I honestly think we will address LB in free agency just because that is a lower cost position.  We did a good job rebuilding our LB corps in 2011 with Manny lawson and Thomas Howard, but they were young and athletic.  Recently all we have signed are older guys like Harrison, Hawk, and Dansby.  But I have to admit that when we signed Dansby i thought we were doing a great job filling one of our biggest holes, a LB who could cover.

If we don't re-sign both Zeitler and Whitworth I think we may also sign a lower cost veteran O-lineman to start at OG.

Any LB you're looking at that you think the Bengals will target? Any that YOU would like to target?

I mean obviously it would be great to have a Dont'a Hightower, but he's going to get his $10 million somewhere not named Cincinnati.

Realistically speaking, I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Josh Bynes in stripes a few days into free agency. Cheap and low risk signing, solid player, fills a need, Lions probably aren't re-signing him, and he's not going to have multiple suitors knocking his door down.

I'd like to see the Bengals get more aggressive than that since our LB corp kind of blows, but I'm not so sure it'll happen. A lot of the soon to be UFA OLBs are 3-4 guys and/or rush specialists that we aren't going to pay.

Speaking of 3-4, I wouldn't mind seeing a guy like Jarvis Jones from Pittsburgh given a look either, but he doesn't really fit our immediate needs. He would likely end up being what James Harrison was during his time in Cincinnati, except younger. I think Jones could be converted into a 4-3 SLB on run downs.

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52 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Any LB you're looking at that you think the Bengals will target? Any that YOU would like to target?

Bengals will look at guys like Akeem Ayers.  Nothing to get anyone excited about, but at least I think they will stay away from the old guys.

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20 minutes ago, fredtoast said:

Bengals will look at guys like Akeem Ayers.  Nothing to get anyone excited about, but at least I think they will stay away from the old guys.

I hope you're right. The old, slow but intelligent outside LBs haven't been working out very well.

I've noticed a theme though, a lot of other fanbases have similar complaints as we do. I can't tell you how many times I see "I wish we had some linebackers that could cover a damn TE!!" across many different forms of social media and message boards for all different teams around the NFL. It turns out that athletic TEs are just difficult for LBs to cover unless you have one of the very few elite coverage guys in the league.

I don't expect shut down coverage from linebackers, but I'd really like to see better than we've had over the past few seasons.

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