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Offseason Needs DE


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As far as I can tell ignoring the guys that may return in free agency I see our needs as: 2nd WR, LT, C, RG, RT, K, LDT, RDE, SLB, MLB, S, CB, CB, Backup QB, RB Depth. These are at all kinds of different levels. Some can be filled in house, some will be filled with re-signed free agents, some will have to come from the draft or free agency.

·         Micheal Johnson 6-7 272, 29

o        45 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 3 pass defensed.

·         Connor Barwin 6-4 264, 34

o        Former UC Footballer and Basketballer that will save them 7.75 million if released. 34-5 2 passes defensed. 7 sacks in 2015, 14.5 in 2014.

·         Jared Odrick 6-5 298, 29

o        Odrick dealt with injuries all year playing just 6 games. The Jags save 8.5 million by cutting him. 12 tackles 1 sack.

·         Trent Murphy Trade 6-5 290, 26

o        Murphy would have to be gotten by trade and there is a not too far fetched scenario where Gruden is looking for a QB. The Redskins were set to try him at DE after their depth increased at LB last year and asked him to beef up to 290. He is entering the final year of his rookie deal and likely behind Preston Smith and Ryan Kerrigan on the depth chart again. 47 tackles, 9 sacks.  

·         Charles Johnson 6-2 275, 30

o        26 tackles 4 sacks.

·         Dion Jordan 6-6 275, 26

o        The former 3rd overall pick has not played in the last 2 years due to injuries and suspensions. Just three total sacks.

·         Wallace Gilberry 6-2 270, 32

o        2.5 sacks in just 5 games with the Bengals in 2016

Projection: Dunlap is a stud and Will Clarke (4 sacks) is coming around to solid contributor. Margus Hunt should be done. Gillberry might be back but won’t be a necessity. Micheal Johnson is solid but not a playmaker at a position where we want one. I think Connor Barwin is a perfect rotational veteran end who might want to close out his career where he played college ball and with a winner. I don’t think his signing would take us out of taking another end at any time within the first few rounds and would give us a safety net if other positions fall to us more easily

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I think we'll add a DE in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. 

Top four of Dunlap, MJ, rookie and Clarke. 

Could see somebody like Gilberry or Hunt brought back as 5th DE on a vet minimum type deal just to have in case of injury during training camp. 

If we end up using all 11 picks (or get even more by trading McCarron), could even see them drafting two DEs this year. It's one of the strengths of the draft class and they've been pretty obvious this offseason about wanting to add some young talent and speed to the front 7 on defense. 

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47 minutes ago, Dautcom08 said:

Saw an article / report that Barwin would be willing to restructure and take a pay cut to stay in Philly so I think you can cross him off the list.  He's pretty entrenched in the Philly community.  Isn't he more of a fit in a 3-4 scheme anyways?

Not just that, but it doesn't really make sense to bring in another 30-year old on the D Line. They want to get some talented younger guys to start integrating into the mix and hopefully find a couple long-term starters. And we have plenty of picks to do it this year. 

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9 hours ago, happyrid said:

I think we'll add a DE in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. 

Top four of Dunlap, MJ, rookie and Clarke. 

Could see somebody like Gilberry or Hunt brought back as 5th DE on a vet minimum type deal just to have in case of injury during training camp. 

This.

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9 hours ago, happyrid said:

I think we'll add a DE in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. 

Top four of Dunlap, MJ, rookie and Clarke. 

Could see somebody like Gilberry or Hunt brought back as 5th DE on a vet minimum type deal just to have in case of injury during training camp. 

If we end up using all 11 picks (or get even more by trading McCarron), could even see them drafting two DEs this year. It's one of the strengths of the draft class and they've been pretty obvious this offseason about wanting to add some young talent and speed to the front 7 on defense. 

Yep.

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Wanted to add these 2 as potential cap casualties

·         Lamarr Houston 6-3 274, 29

o        Houston tore his ACL in the 2nd game of the year. 42 tackels 8 sacks 2015. He is a potential cap casualty.

·         Pernell McPhee 6-3 273, 28

o        McPhee played only 9 games in 2016 with 16 tackles for 4 sacks. He is a potential cap casualty.

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For anyone else who didn't know,  a "reserve/future" contract is a way to sign players for the 2017 season even though it hasn't started yet.  Only players that aren't on an active roster are eligible. 

In Albright's case, he was waived by the Bills and then returned to their practice squad.

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I would definitely bring back Gilberry. The guy just has a knack for making plays in that rotational/back-up role. I can see the Bengals potentially taking a shot at the position in the draft but won't be shocked to see them go status quo for the most part at DE in 2017.

I actually think they go DE in the draft Johnson obviously need replaced and is around 30 as is Dunlap think they go rde this year and Lde in 2 years. I'm praying for demarcus Walker this year.

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Every down 4-3 DE's are hard to find for 4-3 teams.  I honestly think that is why so many teams go 3-4.  There are not many guys stout enough to stop the run and quick enough to rush the passer.  I see it as a "first round" position.  They are some of the most expensive players to sign in free agency.

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Every down 4-3 DE's are hard to find for 4-3 teams.  I honestly think that is why so many teams go 3-4.  There are not many guys stout enough to stop the run and quick enough to rush the passer.  I see it as a "first round" position.  They are some of the most expensive players to sign in free agency.

Taco Charlton or Solomon Thomas

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

Every down 4-3 DE's are hard to find for 4-3 teams.  I honestly think that is why so many teams go 3-4.  There are not many guys stout enough to stop the run and quick enough to rush the passer.  I see it as a "first round" position.  They are some of the most expensive players to sign in free agency.

Then you have guys like Michael Johnson.  Who are subpar at both

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The more we move along in the offseason, the more it feels like 2nd round might be the spot for DE. 

Derek Barnett and Solomon Thomas were guys who seemed like strong possibilities at #9 and I was thinking DE was most likely pick in the 1st round. But more and more mocks have those guys falling to the mid-late 1st it seems and there do seem to be legit questions to both guys games. 

Obviously we could see Thomas, Barnett or another DE really emerge with a strong combine or something, but as of now, it seems like there's a decent gap between the top guys (Garrett/Allen) and then that next tier. Which would make LB, WR or S more likely at #9. 

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13 minutes ago, happyrid said:

The more we move along in the offseason, the more it feels like 2nd round might be the spot for DE. 

Derek Barnett and Solomon Thomas were guys who seemed like strong possibilities at #9 and I was thinking DE was most likely pick in the 1st round. But more and more mocks have those guys falling to the mid-late 1st it seems and there do seem to be legit questions to both guys games. 

Obviously we could see Thomas, Barnett or another DE really emerge with a strong combine or something, but as of now, it seems like there's a decent gap between the top guys (Garrett/Allen) and then that next tier. Which would make LB, WR or S more likely at #9. 

Thomas is CBS' #3 rated player, #5 ESPN Scout's Inc. Kiper mocked him to us at 9. I think his stock will stay steady top 10 throughout the process. He is going to blow people away in his interviews and kill the combine.

Now Barnett is one I can see slipping after the combine. Not a great athlete.

I'd be shocked if we took a safety or receiver #9.

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The more we move along in the offseason, the more it feels like 2nd round might be the spot for DE. 
Derek Barnett and Solomon Thomas were guys who seemed like strong possibilities at #9 and I was thinking DE was most likely pick in the 1st round. But more and more mocks have those guys falling to the mid-late 1st it seems and there do seem to be legit questions to both guys games. 
Obviously we could see Thomas, Barnett or another DE really emerge with a strong combine or something, but as of now, it seems like there's a decent gap between the top guys (Garrett/Allen) and then that next tier. Which would make LB, WR or S more likely at #9. 

I think it comes down to ruebon Foster, Mike Williams, or trade down. Safety we won't go we got our guys locked up until 2020.

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Thomas looks more like a left DE.  

Huh too me he looked like he was best as a dt did most of his damage from there. I would honestly be fine drafting rde and lde Dunlap has maybe 2-3 elite years and mj is done could see us drafting a guy like demarcus Walker or more likely kpassagnon in the second and a guy like Thomas in the first.

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I don't know if they're going DE early in the draft. I'm not 100% sure the organization views it as a big need like the fans do. I could be wrong, but I feel like they aren't going to be trying to actively find MJ's replacement this year, but maybe next year. I think the team knows it needs to draft an impact starter at #9 and again, I'm not sure they see RDE as a hole to fill. I'm sure they'll take d-line somewhere in the draft, but not so sure it'll be a starting caliber, NFL ready 1st-2nd rounder like many think, I guess we'll see what happens. I could easily see a project DE to replace Hunt's roster spot in the mid-late rounds.

DE looks thin for UFAs this year. We aren't signing one of the top guys to a huge contract, so that leaves us with the mediocre rotational players and the dumpster dive specials. If we're going to sign a mediocre rotational Gillbery-esque player, we're just going to sign actual Gilberry, it's what the Bengals do and it makes sense in this situation.

I don't think I'll be surprised at all if our d-line is Dunlap, Johnson, Atkins, Peko, Billings, Clarke, Gilberry, Sims, mid round Rookie DT/DE as guys that see play time this year. I feel like our d-line will look almost the same as it did last season.

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The pass rush was pathetic last year , how can the Bengals not see that as a problem.  RDE brought bathing when it came to pass rush.  The RDE should have 10 sacks every year that's his primary function.    Barnette who set the Tennessee record for sacks should be considered.  He's a true junior with amazing college tape.  Being about 602 275 is his only flaw but it's not that big of an issue.  Thats bigger than most 3 4 pass rushers .   He doesn't have the build of Michael Johnson or the looks. But he's more of a football player.    

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Olivier Vernon played the most d-line snaps in the league, is considered a top RDE, and he didn't have 10 sacks last year. Saying the RDE should have 10 sacks every year is absurd and unrealistic.

MJ doesn't sack the QB a lot. He just doesn't. I'm not here to make excuses for the guy, I wish he'd get to the QB more often and he should, but he's still nowhere near as bad as some like to say. He's another good but not great player on the Bengals that could be replaced, but what I'm saying is that IMO the Bengals organization doesn't see him as someone that needs replaced by a top draft pick immediately.

I think there are bigger needs elsewhere. The Bengals are actually rated as the #1 team in 2016 as far as team pressure rating goes. The Bengals defense disrupted pass plays quite a bit last year, the pass rush isn't in the dire need of an overhaul. If the team, as a whole, had 8 less sacks over an entire 16 game season, they'd have been the worst in the league. If they had 8 more, they'd be in the top 5. That's 0.5 sacks per game by the TEAM, not just a single player. I find it crazy that some fans (not saying you're doing this, just a general rant) seem to only look at sack numbers and believe that's the team's pass rushing ability. We got to the QB, created pressure, and caused a LOT of disruption last year with the same players that are almost all coming back in 2017.

The defense had 17 INTs and not one of them were returned for a TD and our red zone offense last year couldn't seem to find a way to turn them into TDs. The defense only forced SIX(!!!!!) fumbles, only the Titans had less, and again, none returned for TDs and our offense couldn't regularly turn them into 6 points.

I know I probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but the numbers back up what I'm saying when I say I don't believe the pass rush is this huge issue that needs correctly immediately before we can contend. Sloppy open field tackling was a problem. Adam Jones regressing was a problem. Losing Reggie followed by Williams and Iloka both playing poorly was a problem. Karlos Dansby clearly not being the player we thought he would be was a problem. I don't see the pass rush as a huge issue.

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1 minute ago, SocalBengalEd said:

PFF gave MJ a rating of 41.1.   One of the worst for defensive ends in the nfl.  They are unbiased n not bengals fans.  My eyes also tell me MJ sucks ass.  So there's that.  We can argue all day long. But 3.5 sacks for the year is not good.  However you spin it. 

Yeah I wouldn't take PFF player grades as the end-all of player evaluation. They can point you in the right direction with the advanced stats, and their grading system in the past used to at least go into more detail of why and how they got the overall grade that they received. They're glorified Madden ratings nowadays though.

I think the fact that you want the RDE to have 10+ sacks every year even though some of the best RDEs in the league didn't hit that in 2016 may be clouding your judgment of whether MJ really "sucks ass" or not.

MJ has been solid against the run throughout his career, that has to count for something. No, he isn't a pass rushing phenom, but I've never tried to claim that he is, and I even mentioned that he's replaceable. I just don't think the team is going to look to actively replace him this offseason. I'm not claiming he's amazing, I think I'm being pretty fair in my assessment of his play, and I think someone claiming a decent player "sucks ass" is just being flat out unrealistic and I doubt you would care to have an actual discussion of his performance if we would get more into the nuances of his play compared to other RDEs around the league.

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