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Thoughts on 9th pick


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1 hour ago, akiliMVP said:

I like both of the top safeties but I dont see safety being picked here with both starters locked up for 2-3 more years.

I don't think that would matter in this case just because these guys are both so interchangeable and could literally play any secondary position at any given time pretty much....plus they have no one on that defense other than maybe Burfict that's even in the same zip code as these kids when it comes to having the ability to make game changing plays.....which is something that this team has desperately needed for years.   

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My wish list for 9:
1. DE Myles Garrett, Texas A&M
2. DT Jonathan Allen, Alabama
3. DE Solomon Thomas, Stanford
4. RB Leonard Fournette, LSU
5. LB Reuben Foster, Alabama
6. DE Taco Charlton, Michigan
I like both of the top safeties but I dont see safety being picked here with both starters locked up for 2-3 more years.

Why is nobody talking about Allen's shoulder injuries

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On 1/29/2017 at 7:39 PM, happyrid said:

Zay Jones is mostly projected 2nd-3rd round, but his 40 time will be big for his stock. The main question with him is speed. He might be more of a Sanu type, which would probably put him in the 3rd. If he runs faster than expected, his stock could go up to mid-early 2nd round. 

That would be perfect then in my opinion. Granted I've only seen a bit of him but from what I've seen he looks good. If he was there in the 3rd for us I would be more than happy with that pick.

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Former Ohio State defensive back Malik Hooker is going to miss at least four months after having multiple surgeries, according to a report by WalterFootball.com.

The report indicates that Hooker had procedures for a hernia and a torn labrum, and his recovery time would cause him to miss working out at the NFL Combine. 

Hooker is one of the top prospects in the draft and is widely considered to be a first-round talent. He is the No. 1 safety in the draft according to CBSSports.com's rankings. 

Hooker had seven interceptions as a redshirt sophomore last season and returned three of them for touchdowns. In his first season as a starter, Hooker had 74 tackles and broke up four passes.

In an NFL.com mock draft last week, they had Hooker going No. 7 overall. It's unclear how much - if at all - these surgeries will impact his draft position.

http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Malik-Hooker-to-miss-4-6-months-after-surgeries-51008990?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=170201_152442_Ohio State Buckeyes&utm_content=Link

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

Former Ohio State defensive back Malik Hooker is going to miss at least four months after having multiple surgeries, according to a report by WalterFootball.com.

The report indicates that Hooker had procedures for a hernia and a torn labrum, and his recovery time would cause him to miss working out at the NFL Combine. 

Hooker is one of the top prospects in the draft and is widely considered to be a first-round talent. He is the No. 1 safety in the draft according to CBSSports.com's rankings. 

Hooker had seven interceptions as a redshirt sophomore last season and returned three of them for touchdowns. In his first season as a starter, Hooker had 74 tackles and broke up four passes.

In an NFL.com mock draft last week, they had Hooker going No. 7 overall. It's unclear how much - if at all - these surgeries will impact his draft position.

http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Malik-Hooker-to-miss-4-6-months-after-surgeries-51008990?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=170201_152442_Ohio State Buckeyes&utm_content=Link

A slide to 9 would not upset me in the least. :lol: 

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On 1/29/2017 at 4:53 PM, Jpoore said:


Guess we will agree too disagree.... We shall find out at the combine for sure.

I might have to walk back my Mike Williams comments a bit...they won't be able to get any sure-fire starters on the offensive side of the football in r2 this year but this draft is so deep with defensive talent they could easily get a starter at 41....there should be a really nice bunch of LB's, edge guys and CB's still sitting there in the first half of r2 that they'll be able to pick from if they wanna go WR or even RB in round 1.....I definitely wouldn't bitch about Williams, Davis, Cook or Fournette at 9 if they could come away with a starting caliber LB, DL or CB at 41. 

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I might have to walk back my Mike Williams comments a bit...they won't be able to get any sure-fire starters on the offensive side of the football in r2 this year but this draft is so deep with defensive talent they could easily get a starter at 41....there should be a really nice bunch of LB's, edge guys and CB's still sitting there in the first half of r2 that they'll be able to pick from if they wanna go WR or even RB in round 1.....I definitely wouldn't bitch about Williams, Davis, Cook or Fournette at 9 if they could come away with a starting caliber LB, DL or CB at 41. 

Yeah I'm really upset that I didn't get to see Davis in the senior bowl or combine. Really wanted that. Also we could end up having 3 second round picks due to aj mccarron trade and if we trade down to 13 as it seems Palmer is retiring. I think cardinals trade up to get either Watson or trubisky and give us this 1st second and third rounders. So potentially in the first 64 picks we could have 4 picks. I would love in the second to go lb, edge, center. Could be something like walker/pssagnon, beckwith,davis,mcmillan, and pat elflien in the second. Rb I would butch about bc I personally think mixon is the best rb in the draft. And we could get him in the 4th/5th easily.

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Yeah I'm really upset that I didn't get to see Davis in the senior bowl or combine. Really wanted that. Also we could end up having 3 second round picks due to aj mccarron trade and if we trade down to 13 as it seems Palmer is retiring. I think cardinals trade up to get either Watson or trubisky and give us this 1st second and third rounders. So potentially in the first 64 picks we could have 4 picks. I would love in the second to go lb, edge, center. Could be something like walker/pssagnon, beckwith,davis,mcmillan, and pat elflien in the second. Rb I would butch about bc I personally think mixon is the best rb in the draft. And we could get him in the 4th/5th easily.

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I know this, no WR played better against that Ohio State secondary than Corey Davis did....They absolutely couldn't do a thing with him.

As for Mixon, even with all the trouble I'd say he's 3rd rounder at worst and more likely a 2nd rounder.

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I know this, no WR played better against that Ohio State secondary than Corey Davis did....They absolutely couldn't do a thing with him.

As for Mixon, even with all the trouble I'd say he's 3rd rounder at worst and more likely a 2nd rounder.

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Usually Problem like this results in a 3 round drop and considering all the talent at rb this year and the fact that a reportedly 8-12 teams don't even have him on their board makes me think he could drop to 4-5

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Speed rushing defensive end and wide receiver speed at number 9 is something I've seen from both Jim O and Hobson in the past two days. Take that FWIW. They like their perimeter players so it makes sense. Hobson basically threw cold water on running back. 

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14 hours ago, JC said:

Speed rushing defensive end and wide receiver speed at number 9 is something I've seen from both Jim O and Hobson in the past two days. Take that FWIW. They like their perimeter players so it makes sense. Hobson basically threw cold water on running back. 

IIRC he said that Fournette could be a guy at 9 for them. What I found interesting in that article was that he said that LB would not be a consideration at 9. People rave about Foster, but people also need to know that he's a bit undersized...and has a significant concussion history. That plus their devaluation of the position makes it less likely than we might think.

Then all three top WRs have dings. Williams broke his neck and is slow. Davis didn't participate in the Senior Bowl for a real comp test, and then injured his ankle and won't do the combine either. John Ross just announced he is going to have labrum surgery after his pro day. 

From a need perspective, IMO, Edge, LB, and WR2 (caveat: deep speed guy) are our biggest needs. Garrett won't fall to us. There are some shorter guys than we normally like who are going to be big time difference makers, including Solomon Thomas and Tak McKinley, but does a team like the Bengals who is so set on size profiles for positions take undersized players? 

Trade down?

          

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IIRC he said that Fournette could be a guy at 9 for them. What I found interesting in that article was that he said that LB would not be a consideration at 9. People rave about Foster, but people also need to know that he's a bit undersized...and has a significant concussion history. That plus their devaluation of the position makes it less likely than we might think.
Then all three top WRs have dings. Williams broke his neck and is slow. Davis didn't participate in the Senior Bowl for a real comp test, and then injured his ankle and won't do the combine either. John Ross just announced he is going to have labrum surgery after his pro day. 
From a need perspective, IMO, Edge, LB, and WR2 (caveat: deep speed guy) are our biggest needs. Garrett won't fall to us. There are some shorter guys than we normally like who are going to be big time difference makers, including Solomon Thomas and Tak McKinley, but does a team like the Bengals who is so set on size profiles for positions take undersized players? 
Trade down?
          

I do not understand this Williams is "slow" he's as fast as aj green. Is aj slow? Also foster is not a good pick at 9 he's a second round talent imo. Watch voch Lombardi breakdown on foster. He relies on his athletic ability to cover up his insanely slow read/react. I don't wanna trade down unless Williams is gone. Get another second rounder. We need center and edge in second round. I'm hoping second round is pat elflien and demarcus walker. Could also end up grabbing tanoj kpassagnon is second. He absolutely destroyed the senior bowl. Solomon Thomas is not a good fit. He did moat of his damage from his dt spot.

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7 hours ago, Jpoore said:


I do not understand this Williams is "slow" he's as fast as aj green. Is aj slow?

AJ Green ran consistently in the 4.45-4.48 range throughout the pre-draft process in 2011.....Mike Williams will never break 4.6.

Green was one of the best deep threats in the country during his years at Georgia, consistently separating from and running by people and making big plays....Mike Williams doesn't separate from or run by anyone, he simply goes over them. 

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Snarkster 2.0 (No McWebb Trade/Guessing @ Comps)

01 (SLB) Rueben Foster (6-1/245) Alabama
02 (DE) Tanoh Kpassagnon (6-7/290) Villinova
3A (WR) Tay Jones (6-1/200) East Carolina
3B (RB) Joe Mixon (6-1/225) Oklahoma (Comp)
3C (CB) Ezra Robinson (6-1/180) Tennessee St. (Comp)
04 (OC) Jon Toth (6-5/310) Kentucky
5A (OT) Julie'n Davenport (6-7/315) Bucknell
5B (DT) Vince Taylor (6-3/310) Oklahoma St. (Comp)
6A (FS) Demetrious Cox (6-1/200) Michigan St.   
6B (WLB) Jaylen Reeves-Maybin (6-0/225) Tennessee (Comp)
07 (PK) Zane Gonzalez (6-1/190) Arizona St. 

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7 hours ago, snarkster said:

Snarkster 2.0 (No McWebb Trade/Guessing @ Comps)

01 (SLB) Rueben Foster (6-1/245) Alabama
02 (DE) Tanoh Kpassagnon (6-7/290) Villinova
3A (WR) Tay Jones (6-1/200) East Carolina
3B (RB) Joe Mixon (6-1/225) Oklahoma (Comp)
3C (CB) Ezra Robinson (6-1/180) Tennessee St. (Comp)
04 (OC) Jon Toth (6-5/310) Kentucky
5A (OT) Julie'n Davenport (6-7/315) Bucknell
5B (DT) Vince Taylor (6-3/310) Oklahoma St. (Comp)
6A (FS) Demetrious Cox (6-1/200) Michigan St.   
6B (WLB) Jaylen Reeves-Maybin (6-0/225) Tennessee (Comp)
07 (PK) Zane Gonzalez (6-1/190) Arizona St. 

I can definitely see the Bengals taking Mixon just a question of where.  If he is still there, their first 3rd rounder and I would not be shocked if we got him in round two.

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9 hours ago, snarkster said:

Snarkster 2.0 (No McWebb Trade/Guessing @ Comps)

01 (SLB) Rueben Foster (6-1/245) Alabama
02 (DE) Tanoh Kpassagnon (6-7/290) Villinova
3A (WR) Tay Jones (6-1/200) East Carolina
3B (RB) Joe Mixon (6-1/225) Oklahoma (Comp)
3C (CB) Ezra Robinson (6-1/180) Tennessee St. (Comp)
04 (OC) Jon Toth (6-5/310) Kentucky
5A (OT) Julie'n Davenport (6-7/315) Bucknell
5B (DT) Vince Taylor (6-3/310) Oklahoma St. (Comp)
6A (FS) Demetrious Cox (6-1/200) Michigan St.   
6B (WLB) Jaylen Reeves-Maybin (6-0/225) Tennessee (Comp)
07 (PK) Zane Gonzalez (6-1/190) Arizona St. 

Decent draft. IMO you end up taking guys a little higher than they are expected to go, but the result is you hit the needs very well with guys I happen to like.

My nit picks would be that we fail to get a WR with true deep speed, the team's biggest stated need at the position. I would personally take two WRs in this draft especially if we don't keep Lafell, but regardless if we do, if we take a great value like Zay jones in the 3rd, then we still need that deep speed player. Someone HAS to go deep to help take the pressure away from AJ. Taywan Taylor could be that guy a little bit later. 

I'd cream myself if Vincent Taylor were there in the 5th but don't think that will happen. 

Oh, and the biggest nit pick of all is that we won't get any 3rd round comps, let alone two. By all accounts (those who get this right every year, we're going to get two 4ths, and two 6ths). It was a big FA year elsewhere and unfortunately, despite the size of Marvin Jones' and Sanu's deals, they just miss the mark to get into the third (which is tragic bc imo this is really a draft where the top 100 spots will get you real instant impact guys.

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The more I look at the talent available in this draft I think the Bengals should take a pass rush specialist with the 9th pick. I would go Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, or Taco Charlton depending on who is available. 

Charlton fits the physical build but the concerns about his consistency worry me and make me think he's not a top 10 pick. Thomas has the intangibles you want but doesn't fit the Bengals physical mold for recent DE picks, although they did bring back Wallace Gilberry and he isn't a 6'6" 280 lb guy. Derek Barnett is probably the most talented guy out of the bunch but he doesn't fit the mold either and doesn't have the intangibles that Thomas brings, but he's a hell of a football player.

Either way I think the Bengals get a great pick at #9 if they decide to go pass rush in the first round, which I think is the biggest need for young quality depth. I know people want us to LB but I don't see anyone available that is worthy of a top 10 pick and I really like Jarrad Davis from Florida and he should be available in the 9th round. 

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14 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

Never mind the team's "mold", draft BPA and then the coaches figure out how to play them.  Not to pine over Zimmer again but he knew you build your scheme around your players and not the other way around. 

Zimmer was one of the main guys who was all about the 6'6+ DEs and Margus Hunt was a guy he argued in favor of drafting. That "mold" is in place largely due to Zimmer influence...

Quote

 As far as the Vikings and many other NFL teams are concerned, one of the most important things that defensive end prospects have done here at the scouting combine is extend their arms.

Length is something that coach Mike Zimmer covets from his edge rushers, from perennial Pro Bowler Demarcus Ware with the Cowboys to his six years with the Bengals to drafting Danielle Hunter last spring.

So Thursday, I asked him why long arms are so important at that spot.

“A good example would be,” he answered as he looked down at me from the podium, “If I could reach you right now and tackle you, that would be a pretty good advantage, right? As opposed to trying to reach this far.”

“Number one is reach, as far as getting off a block and getting to a guy,” said Zimmer, now in his third year as coach. “Number two is guys that are 10 feet high in the air with their hands, being able to get in the quarterback’s throwing lane, tipped balls and things like that. I think length gives you an advantage that can be important for your defensive football team.”

Zimmer was the defensive coordinator in Dallas when the Cowboys took Ware, who is 6-foot-4 with 34-inch arms, in the first round. When he was in Cincinnati, the Bengals drafted Carlos Dunlap (6-6 with 34 5/8-inch arms), Margus Hunt (6-8 with 33 3/4-inch arms) and our old friend Michael Johnson (no official arm measurement found, but he is 6-foot-7).

 

 

Guenther has specifically said multiple times this offseason that he is fine with a 260 pound DE and wants to add some speed and pass rush to the defense. 

I don't really see the argument here that Guenther has been inflexible and Zimmer was somehow different. 

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it would be extremely nice for us if four offensive players were to get drafted within the top 8 picks, say two QB's and two RB's....if that happens, some defensive stud is bound to be sitting there that we originally didn't think we would get a shot at....maybe someone like Jonathan Allen.

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