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MichaelWeston

Offseason Needs S

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As far as I can tell ignoring the guys that may return in free agency I see our needs as: 2nd WR, LT, C, RG, RT, K, LDT, RDE, SLB, MLB, S, CB, CB, Backup QB, RB Depth. These are at all kinds of different levels. Some can be filled in house, some will be filled with re-signed free agents, some will have to come from the draft or free agency.

·         Shawn Williams 6-0 210, 25

o        81 tackles, 3 ints, 1 sack, 5 passes defensed. Williams didn’t lock down the spot and his coverage skills are questionable. His contract is easy to get out of.

·         Barry Church 6-2 218, 28

o        85 tackles, 2ints, 4 passes defensed. He played in 12 games

·         Tony Jefferson 5-11 212, 25

o        96 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 ints, 5 passes defensed

·         Chris Conte 6-2 203, 27

o        69 tackles, 2ints, 5 passes defensed

·         Bradley McDougald 6-1 209, 26

o        91 tackles, 2ints, 10 passes defensed

·         Donte Whitner 5-10 208, 31

o        66 tackles

·         Michael Thomas-Dolphins 5-11 193, 26

o        58 tackles 1 sack 1 pass defensed

·         Kemal Ishmael 6-0 206, 25

o        52 tackles, 2 passes defensed

·         Baccari Rambo 6-0 221, 26

o        42 tackles, 1int, 3 passes defensed

·         Jordan Poyer 6-0 191, 25

o        39 tackles, 2 passes defensed

·         Rashad Johnson-Titans 5-11 204, 31

o        38 tackles, 1 pass defensed

·         Matt Elam 5-10 208, 25

o        4 tackles

·         Blanton 6-1 200, 27

o        35 tackles

Projections: There are a lot of safeties with experience but this position is the toughest for me to judge above them all. I am not a fan of Shawn Williams but I believe that the Bengals are and won’t make huge moves here. The one guy that stands out is Matt Elam. It’s our MO to sign a guy like that and try to make something out of him. I would stand pat here other than taking a flyer on Elam.

 

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I think Shawn and George are locked in this year.  Williams only makes 3.8 million and we would have 1.6 dead money if we released him.  He doesn't make over 4 million a year until the last year of his deal (2020).

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1 hour ago, fredtoast said:

I think Shawn and George are locked in this year.  Williams only makes 3.8 million and we would have 1.6 dead money if we released him.  He doesn't make over 4 million a year until the last year of his deal (2020).

 

I'm fine with that, Iloka is pretty good and Williams was improving.  Have Smith or Fejedelem done anything? Those are our backup safeties, FYI, a couple of late-round draft picks (6/7) with a dozen or so tackles between them.  Maybe one of them is great but some competition there couldn't hurt.  Not sold on Williams yet and it's a tough position, good safeties are in almost every play - if not in on the tackle they're in the pile.  If this draft is good for DB's a mid-rounder with some speed might be nice.  One of those dudes with some talent that didn't go to a football factory but led a good defense and can run. 

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Yeah, both are locked up for the next 2 or 3 years.  And by the end of the year they were playing better as a tandem.  

As much as I would like to add Malik Hooker, 1, I don't think he makes it to them, and 2 I'm not convinced they would take him (or Adams) at 9 if he did (I don't think they value the position enough to take a safety at 9 no matter how good he is).  I could see them drafting a backup safety sometime on Saturday but I don't see them taking one before that unless someone too good to pass up falls to round 3.

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Yeah, both are locked up for the next 2 or 3 years.  And by the end of the year they were playing better as a tandem.  
As much as I would like to add Malik Hooker, 1, I don't think he makes it to them, and 2 I'm not convinced they would take him (or Adams) at 9 if he did (I don't think they value the position enough to take a safety at 9 no matter how good he is).  I could see them drafting a backup safety sometime on Saturday but I don't see them taking one before that unless someone too good to pass up falls to round 3.

Hooker was probably gonna gonna go around 7, but with surgery I could see him falling to 10. But ur right were not gonna pick a safety that high. Anyways the reason Williams played poorly early in the year was due to the fact he was a ss trying to convert to a fs. It took a while to learn the new position but once he did he played a lot better.

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(post Super Bowl comment)

Team's biggest need: a heart

(post Super Bowl editorial comment: Not a chance in Hell of getting one with this piss poor excuse for a coach.)

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I like Ohio State, but their fans are annoying as hell, 

That said I would jump at Hooker if he is there.... nfl.com comparison is to Reggie Nelson.... I'm sorry but our 2ndary missed Nelson this year, biggest mistake we made was letting him walk. 

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6 hours ago, Jamie_B said:

I like Ohio State, but their fans are annoying as hell

That said I would jump at Hooker if he is there.... nfl.com comparison is to Reggie Nelson.... I'm sorry but our 2ndary missed Nelson this year, biggest mistake we made was letting him walk. 

Yes, you are. 

 

:lol: 

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Just now, Jason said:

Yes, you are. 

 

:lol: 

:glare:

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I do ask how much people Like Iloka here? He seems like an average to decent safety, I'm just not sure how much upside he actually has. 

Ideally, you'd like to have at least one player on the backend who can make game changing plays. I've just never seen Iloka as that type of player. He's forced two fumbles, picked off 8 passes, and has zero career sacks in 67 games. That's not enough. Not to mention we still can't cover a damn TE worth a lick. 

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1 minute ago, Madieu Superstar said:

I do ask how much people Like Iloka here? He seems like an average to decent safety, I'm just not sure how much upside he actually has. 

Ideally, you'd like to have at least one player on the backend who can make game changing plays. I've just never seen Iloka as that type of player. He's forced two fumbles and picked off 8 passes in 67 games. That's not enough. 

He was quietly a GREAT safety for a couple of seasons with Reggie. Not so much last year.

I believe there was a statistic in either 2014 or 2015 where for the first half of the season Iloka gave up a small handful of catches total and was leading the league in passer rating against of all safeties and corners combined. He had some impressive in depth coverage statistics while Reggie was here with him. It looks like he needs a great safety in the secondary with him to perform at a high level.

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10 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

He was quietly a GREAT safety for a couple of seasons with Reggie. Not so much last year.

I believe there was a statistic in either 2014 or 2015 where for the first half of the season Iloka gave up a small handful of catches total and was leading the league in passer rating against of all safeties and corners combined. He had some impressive in depth coverage statistics while Reggie was here with him. It looks like he needs a great safety in the secondary with him to perform at a high level.

Turnovers matter though. This team is beyond abysmal at forcing and recovering fumbles since 2014, when Guenther took over.  

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I do ask how much people Like Iloka here? He seems like an average to decent safety, I'm just not sure how much upside he actually has. 
Ideally, you'd like to have at least one player on the backend who can make game changing plays. I've just never seen Iloka as that type of player. He's forced two fumbles, picked off 8 passes, and has zero career sacks in 67 games. That's not enough. Not to mention we still can't cover a damn TE worth a lick. 

The deal we got was a steal when we signed Iloka. When we have a legit fs he's a top 10 safety in the NFL.

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I think Williams will continue to improve and we should go with that. Coz if we draft another safety, it won't be high methinks, and we'll probably have to coach him up just like we did Wiliiams anyway. Wash rinse repeat!

One thing different we could try would be to do a 'Thomas Davis' on Shawn Williams. That is, turn him into a LB and start Derron Smith at FS (who I like).

Someone was asking about our backup safeties, I thought both Smith and Fejelum did ok last year in limited snaps. Fejelum surprised me, considering his 7th round draft status.

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9 hours ago, Jpoore said:


The deal we got was a steal when we signed Iloka. When we have a legit fs he's a top 10 safety in the NFL.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app
 

That's the problem.

Would you rather have the guy that needs a top safety next to him to play at a high level or the guy that makes others around him better?

In hindsight, we should have paid Reggie for a couple more years next to Williams and developed another safety for after he retires and let Iloka walk. The team looked like they made the right move when they paid the young guy coming off a great season and let the aging vet go elsewhere, but it didn't pan out, at least as of yet.

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3 hours ago, EnglishBengal said:

I think Williams will continue to improve and we should go with that. Coz if we draft another safety, it won't be high methinks, and we'll probably have to coach him up just like we did Wiliiams anyway. Wash rinse repeat!

One thing different we could try would be to do a 'Thomas Davis' on Shawn Williams. That is, turn him into a LB and start Derron Smith at FS (who I like).

Someone was asking about our backup safeties, I thought both Smith and Fejelum did ok last year in limited snaps. Fejelum surprised me, considering his 7th round draft status.

Williams was better in limited snaps, even if he improves I would like a 3rd guy to reduce Williams's snaps and maybe help improve him even more that way.

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That's the problem.
Would you rather have the guy that needs a top safety next to him to play at a high level or the guy that makes others around him better?
In hindsight, we should have paid Reggie for a couple more years next to Williams and developed another safety for after he retires and let Iloka walk. The team looked like they made the right move when they paid the young guy coming off a great season and let the aging vet go elsewhere, but it didn't pan out, at least as of yet.

He doesn't need a top safety next to him just needs a actual fs im giving them one more year. Switching positions is hard and throws off everything


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1 hour ago, Jpoore said:


He doesn't need a top safety next to him just needs a actual fs im giving them one more year. Switching positions is hard and throws off everything


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Marvin has said numerous times we don't have a free safety and strong safety. They both do the same things here and are interchangeable. According to him.

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And they played a lot better for the most part in the latter half of they year.

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Something tells me blowing the entire positional coaching staff on defense during the offseason may have had something to do with the early season struggles. New coaches, different coaching styles etc. It obviously took more than the preseason for players and the new coaches to get on the same page.

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Maybe just maybe Williams is not very good n the Bengals made a mistake by giving him a large contract.  Missing tackles , dropping int s n taking horrible angles you can't blame on the coaching staff.  He just doesn'tappear to have the instincts of a good football player.  Much like May's.   Just not as bad.  Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane

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3 hours ago, EnglishBengal said:

Something tells me blowing the entire positional coaching staff on defense during the offseason may have had something to do with the early season struggles. New coaches, different coaching styles etc. It obviously took more than the preseason for players and the new coaches to get on the same page.

I think this had a lot to do with it.  And the decision not to play Taze in the preseason.  He wasn't in "football shape" until the season was half over.

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1 hour ago, SocalBengalEd said:

Maybe just maybe Williams is not very good n the Bengals made a mistake by giving him a large contract.  Missing tackles , dropping int s n taking horrible angles you can't blame on the coaching staff.  He just doesn'tappear to have the instincts of a good football player.  Much like May's.   Just not as bad.  Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane

 

I feel like Shawn is a better Mays/worse Iloka. I feel it's a fair comparison for his career right now. He fits the Bengals mold at the position, his style of safety play fits here for sure, he just hasn't been performing at the level that we'd like him to.

 

1 hour ago, Jason said:

I think this had a lot to do with it.  And the decision not to play Taze in the preseason.  He wasn't in "football shape" until the season was half over.

Vontaze looked super slow and large in his first few games back. I hope we don't see that ever again.

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I think Illoka combined with Hooker would be an insane combo. Move Williams to LB.

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