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Possibilities at 9


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59 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

Taco is interesting. He has the size the Bengals like, but I see different opinions of him all over the place. I've seen him listed as the #2 DE in the draft, #10 pass rusher in the draft, and everywhere in between as far as pass rushing and overall DE play in general go.

I'll be beyond pissed off if the Bengals take fucking John Ross with the 9th overall pick.

 

Because you want a Defensive guy or you just don't like Ross?

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36 minutes ago, spicoli said:

Taco Charlton has the size that the Bengals look for.....yippie.

other than that, he's just another guy and he will never see the top 15 and likely not even the top 20......guys like Barnett and Charlton are a dime a dozen in this draft and the people that are putting them in the top ten are greatly overestimating their ability while at the same time greatly underestimating the depth of talented guys on the DL that'll still be available all the way into the 4th round......this draft is LOADED with guys just like Taco Charlton in Derek Barnett, it makes ZERO sense to reach for someone like that early and I really don't think the Bengals will even have them on their radar at 9......maybe in a trade down scenario, but no way at 9......just my 2 cents. 

Oh I agree with a lot of this, I just know Taco has the size they like and has been compared to Carlos Dunlap by some outlets. If there is a trade down made by the Bengals, I agree that these guys could be the target in that case.

I'm not sure you can get Charlton/Barnett ability in the 4th, but the dropoff isn't THAT much in my eyes from those 2 guys to the next tier of DEs.

15 minutes ago, Jpoore said:


Don't know how many but bosa just did.


Sent from my iPhone using Go-Bengals.com

Yeah the point is that not many have done it. Saying that Reddick is going to be a 10+ sack guy as a rookie and beyond each year as a 4-3 edge rusher is VERY bold and unrealistic. It's not common to see 10+ sacks from rookies in general, let alone a guy being considered a project pick by most and without the dominance of some of the actual 10+ sack rookies in the past as far as college production goes.

It's risky to take a tweener from Temple at 9 overall, that's my opinion of Reddick without really getting into it again.

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Just now, Jamie_B said:

 

Because you want a Defensive guy or you just don't like Ross?

I just don't like Ross at 9, not necessarily that I think he's trash or anything. It's similar to my stance on Reddick to be honest.

I feel like the #9 overall pick shouldn't be a tweener, project, one trick pony (unless that happens to be one of your only team needs), or a guy that shot up the "boards" due to spandex day.

I don't want Mike Williams but I'll take him 10 times out of 10 over Ross with the 9th overall draft pick.

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4 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

Similar players? Reddick is 6'1, 237 lb.  He was a first team all-AAC Defensive End in his senior year. Some other guy that I have never heard of was the AAC defensive player of the year.  Reddick is not going to be "used in a similar way" as Miller, Orakpo and Mathews if he is drafted by the Bengals because the Bengals run a 4-3 and all of those guys are 3-4 LBs.

 

Von Miller was a LB in college.  He was the best LB in the country.  He is bigger (6'3, 250 lbs) and faster than Reddick, and played in the SEC.  He ran a 4.5 40 at the combine (same as Reddick), but had a blazing fast 4.06 short shuttle.  Reddick's short shuttle was 4.37  Miller did not have to learn a new position in the pros.  Von Miller plays OLB in a 3-4 in the pros.  

Orakpo is 6'4, 260 lb.  He won every award for defensive players that there was in college.  He was Big 12 freshman of the year in 2005 and kicked massive amounts of ass every year in college.  (first team all american and Big 12 player of year.)  Unlike Reddick who had one good year in a bad conference in college.  Orakpo is a monster compared to Reddick.  Orakpo has played both 4-3 and 3-4 OLB in the pros, and is currently playing in a 3-4 in Tennessee.  

Clay Mathews is 6'3 255lbs.  He played DE one year in college and 3-4 LB for 2 years in college ( in the Pac-10, not the AAC).  He has played 3-4 LB his entire career in GB.  He did not have to learn a new position in the NFL.  

Just a FWIW, but Miller played in the Big 12. Dude pretty much singlehandedly beat our arse in 2010.

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18 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

Quite a few mocks have Malik Mcdowell falling into the 2nd round.  If we could get Howard, McDowell, Zack Cunningham (this is a stretch) and Mixon, I think that would be our ideal draft through 4 rounds.

I think Mixon goes round 2. Probably to us. 

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25 minutes ago, MichaelWeston said:

I think Mixon goes round 2. Probably to us. 

I think Mixon is a beast, but we draft way too high in the 2nd round to take him, IMO.  I think there will be better value at LB, DE or even corner.  It will suck if we miss out on Mixon, but the 2nd is too rich for my blood.  Especially if someone like McDowell or Carl Lawson are available.  

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50 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

Quite a few mocks have Malik Mcdowell falling into the 2nd round.  If we could get Howard, McDowell, Zack Cunningham (this is a stretch) and Mixon, I think that would be our ideal draft through 4 rounds.

McDowell is such a beast.  Reminds me a little of Carlos Dunlop.  

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18 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

McDowell is such a beast.  Reminds me a little of Carlos Dunlop.  

Despite his frame, I look at him more as a run stopper.  He's very disruptive in the running game.  Like most college prospects he needs a few more pass rushing moves, but the ability is there and that's what makes him such an intriguing player; first round talent, 3rd round production.  I think coming out Dunlap was a better pass rusher, but McDowell is head and shoulders above Dunlap vs. the run.

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McDowell is going to bust hard. Very rarely does a guy with no motor in college suddenly turn it on in the NFL.

I don't like his work ethic, I don't like his attitude and I don't like his lack of production. He is the epitome of looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

How one could knock down Reddick as trash and pump up this guy as a beast is beyond me.

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16 minutes ago, akiliMVP said:

McDowell is going to bust hard. Very rarely does a guy with no motor in college suddenly turn it on in the NFL.

I don't like his work ethic, I don't like his attitude and I don't like his lack of production. He is the epitome of looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.

How one could knock down Reddick as trash and pump up this guy as a beast is beyond me.

So you read some scouting report parroting the line that McDowell has a poor motor?  Good job.  

And your premise isn't even true.  It's the type of thing people say without even knowing if it is true because it sounds true.  But history doesn't bear it out.  College teams will frequently play their best DLs too much because good DLs are so hard to come by at the college level.  This leads to many great DLs not getting enough plays off during games and taking a breather on the field.  When these same players get into a rotation in the pros the problem goes away.  I remember Zimmer make this exact point a couple of years ago.  Geno Atkins and Carlos were both knocked for inconsistent motors in college.

 

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49 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

So you read some scouting report parroting the line that McDowell has a poor motor?  Good job.  

And your premise isn't even true.  It's the type of thing people say without even knowing if it is true because it sounds true.  But history doesn't bear it out.  College teams will frequently play their best DLs too much because good DLs are so hard to come by at the college level.  This leads to many great DLs not getting enough plays off during games and taking a breather on the field.  When these same players get into a rotation in the pros the problem goes away.  I remember Zimmer make this exact point a couple of years ago.  Geno Atkins and Carlos were both knocked for inconsistent motors in college.

 

Lose the attitude. Akili has been here much longer than you have. 

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1 hour ago, BlackBengal said:

So you read some scouting report parroting the line that McDowell has a poor motor?  Good job.  

And your premise isn't even true.  It's the type of thing people say without even knowing if it is true because it sounds true.  But history doesn't bear it out.  College teams will frequently play their best DLs too much because good DLs are so hard to come by at the college level.  This leads to many great DLs not getting enough plays off during games and taking a breather on the field.  When these same players get into a rotation in the pros the problem goes away.  I remember Zimmer make this exact point a couple of years ago.  Geno Atkins and Carlos were both knocked for inconsistent motors in college.

 

It's in every scouting report and article ever written about McDowell. It has nothing to do with how many snaps he takes. If you want to hang your hat on his 7.5 career sacks "playing every snap" be my guest.

The dude has all the physical traits but has never put it together because he's lazy and doesn't take well to coaching. 

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The more I think about it and the more information comes out through the draft process, the more I like the idea of grabbing one of the top WRs at 9. 

Now that Solomon Thomas seems pretty locked in as a top 5 pick, I don't see much difference between the DEs likely available at 9 and the ones who should be there at 41. In fact, I might like some of the guys like JJ Watt who are being mocked in the 2nd even better than Barnett, Charlton, etc. Barnett and Charlton seem so boom/bust and are probably pretty big reaches at 9. 

Being able to get a solid starter like Kevin Minter in FA for a relatively cheap price shows how MLB is a non-premium position and if you're taking one in the top 10, he better check all the boxes. With all the off field stuff piling up on Foster (in addition to the lack of size, injury history, etc.), I don't see how you can pull the trigger. It's also not much of a need anymore. I like Reddick, but 9 is probably too high for him too.

That leaves offense and I think the one position where you potentially get a lot of bang for your buck is WR. You're never going to get a guy like Ross in FA for less than $10M. If his medicals check out, he's a heck of an option and a guy who completely changes how opposing defenses have to scheme to stop you. I also like Corey Davis a lot, though I'd love to see him lay down a 4.50 or better if he can get healthy enough to run in the next month. Mike Williams is my least favorite of the top trio, but I wouldn't be mad if they took him either.

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7 hours ago, Le Tigre said:

Lol @ Temple being a "small school". 40k student body is "small"?

When in a discussion about CFB people sometimes use the term "small school" to refer to the program playing in a weaker conference, playing lesser opponents, and/or churning out less NFL talent on a regular basis. 

Small school (in these conversations) doesn't always mean it has a smaller student count. 

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2 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

When in a discussion about CFB people sometimes use the term "small school" to refer to the program playing in a weaker conference, playing lesser opponents, and/or churning out less NFL talent on a regular basis. 

Small school (in these conversations) doesn't always mean it has a smaller student count. 

I think you're overselling the "small school" angle just a bit on Temple. Temple won the AAC, which was at worst the #6 conference and had an argument to be #5 over the Big12 (Houston over Oklahoma for example). AAC has pumped out a decent amount of 1st rounders over the past few years (William Jackson, Byron Jones, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Breshad Perriman, etc.). For 2017, they had one less NFL combine invite than the B12 (18 to the B12's 19). 

It's definitely a step down from the SEC, B1G, but it's not like Temple was playing terrible competition and it's not really "small school." The AAC is solid and Temple has been fine against big time teams. They destroyed Penn State in 2015 and lost a close one at PSU last year. They lost to a pretty good Notre Dame team by just 4 points in 2015 too.

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32 minutes ago, happyrid said:

I think you're overselling the "small school" angle just a bit on Temple. Temple won the AAC, which was at worst the #6 conference and had an argument to be #5 over the Big12 (Houston over Oklahoma for example). AAC has pumped out a decent amount of 1st rounders over the past few years (William Jackson, Byron Jones, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Breshad Perriman, etc.). For 2017, they had one less NFL combine invite than the B12 (18 to the B12's 19). 

It's definitely a step down from the SEC, B1G, but it's not like Temple was playing terrible competition and it's not really "small school." The AAC is solid and Temple has been fine against big time teams. They destroyed Penn State in 2015 and lost a close one at PSU last year. They lost to a pretty good Notre Dame team by just 4 points in 2015 too.

I guess we just have different definitions of competition and disagree on how it makes it more difficult to analyze tape.

Reuben Foster probably had more future NFL players surrounding him to help out, I'll concede that point to anyone that wants to make it, but he also played against 10 ranked teams last year.

Reddick is probably one of the only future NFL players on his team but only played against 1 ranked team. The dude had 0 solo tackles and 0.5 sacks against Stony Brook (who?), I'm hoping he didn't play many snaps that game. He had 9.5 sacks in a weak (IMO) conference/schedule. I'm happy that he did his job and had an okay year overall, but keep him away from the Bengals at 9. He doesn't seem like a 4-3 pass rusher to me at all, I just personally don't see it.

I'm not trying to say it's impossible that the AAC can produce any good NFL players, it's just more risky to take a tweener from the AAC when there's a perfectly good, NFL ready, close to a "can't miss" prospect coming out of a monster conference that happens to play a position that we could use some help at.

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1 hour ago, happyrid said:

I think you're overselling the "small school" angle just a bit on Temple. Temple won the AAC, which was at worst the #6 conference and had an argument to be #5 over the Big12 (Houston over Oklahoma for example). AAC has pumped out a decent amount of 1st rounders over the past few years (William Jackson, Byron Jones, Blake Bortles, Paxton Lynch, Breshad Perriman, etc.). For 2017, they had one less NFL combine invite than the B12 (18 to the B12's 19). 

It's definitely a step down from the SEC, B1G, but it's not like Temple was playing terrible competition and it's not really "small school." The AAC is solid and Temple has been fine against big time teams. They destroyed Penn State in 2015 and lost a close one at PSU last year. They lost to a pretty good Notre Dame team by just 4 points in 2015 too.

Temple is definitely a "small " school however you wanna spin it.   Kinda like Duke or Villanova. Not a,bad thing though. 

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