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MichaelWeston

Possibilities at 9

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Exec: Haason Reddick could go before Reuben Foster in draft

The scoop: "It won't surprise me if (Temple LB Haason) Reddick comes off the board before (Alabama LB Reuben) Foster. I like Foster a lot and I think he's the better player of the two, but Reddick is bigger than Foster and is a legit rusher on the edge, too. Any time you have someone who can rush the quarterback, they get pushed up the board." -- NFC pro personnel director

The skinny: The comment about Reddick being bigger than Foster caught me off-guard, but it's true. Reddick came into the NFL Scouting Combine eight pounds heavier than Foster, but I would say that Foster plays stronger and heavier than Reddick once they hit the grass. Reddick's draft value has continued to soar after strong performances at the Senior Bowl and combine. His ability to rush the passer off the edge was something I saw on tape and in one-on-ones at Senior Bowl practices. With more and more defenses looking for hybrid players who can play a variety of roles, Reddick could be the player who benefits most on Day One of the draft.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000793712/article/exec-haason-reddick-could-go-before-reuben-foster-in-draft

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20 minutes ago, omgdrdoom said:

I just quoted your most recent post so you know that I'm talking directly to you, but this doesn't have anything to do with the Keith Rivers and Dontay Moch comparisons (which are both kinda off IMO).

Do you agree that Reddick is at least somewhat of a "project" draft choice? I'll get into more once I see your answer to that first.

 

if the Dontay Moch comparison is off it is only because Reddick is a lesser player and athlete than Moch.

 

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11 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

 

if the Dontay Moch comparison is off it is only because Reddick is a lesser player and athlete than Moch.

 

Oh I'm totally on your side as far as not drafting Reddick goes, I'm just not 100% sure he compares exactly to Moch. We agree on the main point though which is that Reddick is a gifted athlete, but a project player and that's something I don't want to touch with a top 10 pick. I'm fucking sick of projects with high draft picks. We need immediate impact players.

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1 hour ago, spicoli said:

Exec: Haason Reddick could go before Reuben Foster in draft

The scoop: "It won't surprise me if (Temple LB Haason) Reddick comes off the board before (Alabama LB Reuben) Foster. I like Foster a lot and I think he's the better player of the two, but Reddick is bigger than Foster and is a legit rusher on the edge, too. Any time you have someone who can rush the quarterback, they get pushed up the board." -- NFC pro personnel director

In March and April, when an NFL personnel person tells a member of the media that he really likes a player it means he thinks that player sucks.   If this guy really loved Reddick so much he would keep that shit to himself.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/page/hotread140312/nfl-draft-misinformation-smoke-screens-standard-fare-evaluation-season

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/uniontrib/20080415/news_1s15canepa.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started

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TJ Snedden @TjSnedden
@NDTScouting How could Derek Barnett be a top 5 pick right after the season, and now fall in the 20's? Are people over thinking him?

Kyle Crabbs‏ @NDTScouting 
Not in my opinion. Think people saw production and splash plays but didn't do their full HW on his strengths/weaknesses. 20's is good value

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As I see it, the signing of Minter means that Foster never caught their eye, and I can't see them making a semi-reach for Reddick if LB isn't a priority.

If that theory holds water - We realistically could be looking to shore up the D-Line or looking to add an explosive playmaker to the Offense.

My gut feel is that the Bengals are happy with their secondary, and feel good about their LB's with Minter in. With Hunt and Peko both gone, they can upgrade the D-Line.

O-Line doesn't have anyone worthy of the #9, when there will be potentially game-changing players available. A guy like OJ Howard would provide much of Eifert's promised skill set. He can be good insurance in a position that sees a lot of injuries, or open up the playbook. A speedy play maker like Ross might make AJ and Andy's lives a lot easier. A back like Fournette can make a bad line look better.

Their scouting and pro-day visits have seen a lot of RB's looked at, some TE's, and some mid-round D-Linemen. They did attend Reddick's pro-day.

My gut says that they value the pass rush enough to take the best available DE/DT on their board at #9. Experience tells me that they prefer "skill" players at higher draft positions. This is Eifert's final year, he's going to be a hard one to re-sign next year. He's an essential cog in our scheme, and the whole offense suffers when he's out.

The need for Foster is reduced... Charlton and Barnett don't thrill me. Assuming that we get no offers to trade down, I still want the best pass rusher I can get. I'll pick up my NT in a later round. But I would not be surprised if the Bengals picked OJ Howard, nor would I disagree with the pick.

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23 minutes ago, LostInDaJungle said:

As I see it, the signing of Minter means that Foster never caught their eye, and I can't see them making a semi-reach for Reddick if LB isn't a priority.

If that theory holds water - We realistically could be looking to shore up the D-Line or looking to add an explosive playmaker to the Offense.

My gut feel is that the Bengals are happy with their secondary, and feel good about their LB's with Minter in. With Hunt and Peko both gone, they can upgrade the D-Line.

O-Line doesn't have anyone worthy of the #9, when there will be potentially game-changing players available. A guy like OJ Howard would provide much of Eifert's promised skill set. He can be good insurance in a position that sees a lot of injuries, or open up the playbook. A speedy play maker like Ross might make AJ and Andy's lives a lot easier. A back like Fournette can make a bad line look better.

Their scouting and pro-day visits have seen a lot of RB's looked at, some TE's, and some mid-round D-Linemen. They did attend Reddick's pro-day.

My gut says that they value the pass rush enough to take the best available DE/DT on their board at #9. Experience tells me that they prefer "skill" players at higher draft positions. This is Eifert's final year, he's going to be a hard one to re-sign next year. He's an essential cog in our scheme, and the whole offense suffers when he's out.

The need for Foster is reduced... Charlton and Barnett don't thrill me. Assuming that we get no offers to trade down, I still want the best pass rusher I can get. I'll pick up my NT in a later round. But I would not be surprised if the Bengals picked OJ Howard, nor would I disagree with the pick.

 

If we draft Howard, that also lessens the need for another WR.  We could activate 4 TEs on gameday (Eifert, Howard, Kroft and Uzzi), while maybe only 3 or 4 WRs (Green, Lafell, Boyd, Core).  This would help our running game, red zone offense and pass blocking all at the same time.  I think Howard is a very smart pick if we decide to go offense at #9.  I'm starting to doubt he'll be available as it seems more teams are looking at him, specifically the Jags.

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6 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

I just quoted your most recent post so you know that I'm talking directly to you, but this doesn't have anything to do with the Keith Rivers and Dontay Moch comparisons (which are both kinda off IMO).

Do you agree that Reddick is at least somewhat of a "project" draft choice? I'll get into more once I see your answer to that first.

Yes, but not as much as most people think. He plays the Sam his first year in college and was moved to DE to give him a chance to rush the passer more often than not. He seems highly capable of playing LB at a high level and proved it at the Senior Bowl. 

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6 hours ago, omgdrdoom said:

Oh I'm totally on your side as far as not drafting Reddick goes, I'm just not 100% sure he compares exactly to Moch. We agree on the main point though which is that Reddick is a gifted athlete, but a project player and that's something I don't want to touch with a top 10 pick. I'm fucking sick of projects with high draft picks. We need immediate impact players.

If he can rush the passer and get you sack 10+ sacks a year then that's an impact. With the guys we currently have on the roster a speedy LB/DE hybrid could wreck havoc and really help this defense become a top 10 unit. The Bengals defense struggled getting off the field on 3rd downs last year and only had 33 sacks. Reddick could improve on those numbers while giving the DC versatility to move him around in different positions thus causing match-up issues vs. opposing offenses, he could be a DC's dream if used correctly. 

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5 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

In March and April, when an NFL personnel person tells a member of the media that he really likes a player it means he thinks that player sucks.   If this guy really loved Reddick so much he would keep that shit to himself.  

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/page/hotread140312/nfl-draft-misinformation-smoke-screens-standard-fare-evaluation-season

http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/uniontrib/20080415/news_1s15canepa.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1981056-let-the-games-begin-the-nfl-front-office-lying-season-is-just-getting-started

lol...just because there is information that is counter to your opinion doesn't make it less valid. So when someone says something good about Foster I guess it means the opposite as well. Unfortunately there hasn't been much positive news about him due to his injury and flame out at the combine, so maybe that means he's going #1 overall. 

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34 minutes ago, WRAPradio said:

 

If we draft Howard, that also lessens the need for another WR.  We could activate 4 TEs on gameday (Eifert, Howard, Kroft and Uzzi), while maybe only 3 or 4 WRs (Green, Lafell, Boyd, Core).  This would help our running game, red zone offense and pass blocking all at the same time.  I think Howard is a very smart pick if we decide to go offense at #9.  I'm starting to doubt he'll be available as it seems more teams are looking at him, specifically the Jags.

I  would be excited if the pick were Howard.  I could also see the Bengals taking Corey Davis or Mike Williams.

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3 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

lol...just because there is information that is counter to your opinion doesn't make it less valid. So when someone says something good about Foster I guess it means the opposite as well. Unfortunately there hasn't been much positive news about him due to his injury and flame out at the combine, so maybe that means he's going #1 overall. 

You keep acting like I am this huge Foster fan.  I keep telling you I am not.  I don't want Foster.  I just prefer him (and about 10 other LBs) over Reddick.  

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3 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

I  would be excited if the pick were Howard.  I could also see the Bengals taking Corey Davis or Mike Williams.

I would too, I'm just so torn b/c I still think defense win championships.  But if we got Howard I'd be ecstatic.

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15 hours ago, BlackBengal said:

You keep acting like I am this huge Foster fan.  I keep telling you I am not.  I don't want Foster.  I just prefer him (and about 10 other LBs) over Reddick.  

That's some Silky Johnson type of hate, who is Silky Johnson you ask...

Image result for player haters ball

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12 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

I  would be excited if the pick were Howard.  I could also see the Bengals taking Corey Davis or Mike Williams.

So you would be excited for a second string TE at the 9th pick....lol...ok.

We already have 3 young TE's on the roster(4 if you include Hewitt, which is the position he played in college) and Eifert will be the starter this year; why draft a guy to catch like 30 passes at #9? 

Corey Davis, Mike Williams, Dalvin Cook, John Ross would all be better selections than OJ Howard, imo..since you asked..:ninja:

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22 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

So you would be excited for a second string TE at the 9th pick....lol...ok.

We already have 3 young TE's on the roster(4 if you include Hewitt, which is the position he played in college) and Eifert will be the starter this year; why draft a guy to catch like 30 passes at #9? 

Corey Davis, Mike Williams, Dalvin Cook, John Ross would all be better selections than OJ Howard, imo..since you asked..:ninja:

If they draft Howard it probably means they don't re-sign Eifert, assuming Howard plays to expectations. He would be second string for 1 year.

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56 minutes ago, PatternMaster said:

So you would be excited for a second string TE at the 9th pick....lol...ok.

We already have 3 young TE's on the roster(4 if you include Hewitt, which is the position he played in college) and Eifert will be the starter this year; why draft a guy to catch like 30 passes at #9? 

Corey Davis, Mike Williams, Dalvin Cook, John Ross would all be better selections than OJ Howard, imo..since you asked..:ninja:

 

32 minutes ago, Jason said:

If they draft Howard it probably means they don't re-sign Eifert, assuming Howard plays to expectations. He would be second string for 1 year.

Plus, if they do decide to resign Eifert they'd have the best TE group in the league.  It's totally conceivable they run a 2 TE set more than 60% of the time...and there would be points where Howard is the only TE out there b/c he's a better blocker than Eiftert.  This would help our Oline.

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So we draft Howard and use him or eifert as a wide receiver for 1 year? Then don't resign Eifert?

Or we do we run a 2 tight end set for 1 year until Eifert leaves then go back to a 1 tight end set? 

I just don't see it. Lots invested in 1 position. I have zero faith in the coaches to make it work.

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

If they draft Howard it probably means they don't re-sign Eifert, assuming Howard plays to expectations. He would be second string for 1 year.

 

I am fine with Uzomah/Kroft if that's how it shakes out..  Eifert (& Gio) are both ???, look at them about the same as draft picks right now. Maybe they can play, maybe not. If they take a RB/TE other than Howard/Fournette in the top rounds I'd suspect one of our guys is struggling in rehab or worse.

I still think there will be a defensive player at 9 that grades.  The game is being called for the offense, though, so maybe the smart investment is WR/TE.  Most teams aren't allowed to have a hard-hitting defense.  I guess 13-7 sucks to watch if you're a filthy casual, IDK.

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with Howard here, on any given week they could choose to activate 4 TE/3 WRs or 4 WRs/3 TE's.....with Howard and Eifert pretty much being oversized WR's with the ability to block, that opens up a shit ton of options for an OC and a nightmare for DCs to gameplan against.

I just can't see any downside to drafting a guy that opens up so many possibilities....I really don't understand the angst some people have at the thought of drafting him

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4 hours ago, LostInDaJungle said:

As I see it, the signing of Minter means that Foster never caught their eye, and I can't see them making a semi-reach for Reddick if LB isn't a priority.

If that theory holds water - We realistically could be looking to shore up the D-Line or looking to add an explosive playmaker to the Offense.

My gut feel is that the Bengals are happy with their secondary, and feel good about their LB's with Minter in. With Hunt and Peko both gone, they can upgrade the D-Line.

O-Line doesn't have anyone worthy of the #9, when there will be potentially game-changing players available. A guy like OJ Howard would provide much of Eifert's promised skill set. He can be good insurance in a position that sees a lot of injuries, or open up the playbook. A speedy play maker like Ross might make AJ and Andy's lives a lot easier. A back like Fournette can make a bad line look better.

Their scouting and pro-day visits have seen a lot of RB's looked at, some TE's, and some mid-round D-Linemen. They did attend Reddick's pro-day.

My gut says that they value the pass rush enough to take the best available DE/DT on their board at #9. Experience tells me that they prefer "skill" players at higher draft positions. This is Eifert's final year, he's going to be a hard one to re-sign next year. He's an essential cog in our scheme, and the whole offense suffers when he's out.

The need for Foster is reduced... Charlton and Barnett don't thrill me. Assuming that we get no offers to trade down, I still want the best pass rusher I can get. I'll pick up my NT in a later round. But I would not be surprised if the Bengals picked OJ Howard, nor would I disagree with the pick.

I agree with 90% of this. Only minor disagreement is on Eifert and Howard. The top of the tight end market hasn't caught up to other positions with a lot of the top guys (Kelce, Ertz, Gronk, etc.) locked into slightly below market deals before they hit FA (in the $8-9M range). It means the franchise tag for tight ends has remained at about $9M while WR has sky-rocketed up to $15M. That makes it pretty easy to keep Eifert until 2019 and gives them some leverage for an extension if he has a good 2017.

IMO, it's going to come down to DE or WR. All things being equal, I absolutely think they'd go DE. But I don't know if they are going to like any of these DEs enough and they might think they can get a comparable DE at 41. Which maybe leads back to WR where they can add the deep threat they clearly value 

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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2017-nfl-mock-draft-titans-nab-howard-ross-williams-falls-to-the-cowboys/

Good realistic mock by CBS. Howard goes #5 to Titans. Bengals select:

Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan: Adding a young pass rusher to complement veterans Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap is expected to be among the Bengals’ top draft day priorities. Charlton might lack polish as just a one-year starter, but scouts are enamored with the 6-6, 277-pounder’s burst and bend off the edge. General manager Mike Brown has consistently drafted players based on upside rather than just college production, relying upon Marvin Lewis and his coaching staff to develop the drafted talent.

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ugh I want no part of Taco that early.....hell if they have to take a DE at 9 I'd rather have Charles Harris than Taco.

hopefully if they think they have to get a DE that bad they at least trade down and pick up some value. 

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The possibilities. 

RB-Leonard Fournette, Dalvin Cook

WR-Mike Williams, Corey Davis, John Ross

TE-OJ Howard

DE-Myles Garrett, Johnathan Allen, Solomon Thomas, Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton

LB-Reuben Foster, Hasaan Reddick

S-Jamal Adams, Malik Hooker

CB-Marshon Lattimore

My rank (slightly educated on 3-20)

1-Myles Garrett: I don't need to explain this

2-Solomon Thomas: I am a little rougher on this one. He played a lot of 3-4 end in college and while he did well at the combine he doesn't seem like the type of edge guy we like. The combine numbers don't lie though. 

3-Jamal Adams: Seems like a complete stud who could change our entire defense. Have not had a high end playmaker at safety in a long time. 

4-Johnathan Allen: someone mentioned he can play LE, moving Dunlap to RE and move inside on passing downs which are more often than running downs anymore. He also is there for when 

5-Derek Barnett: I am getting on the train. I heard a podcast that said he was just a snap jumper and that won't fly in the pros. That has changed for me quite a bit the more I look at him. He could really be a stud in a rotation with a what we have now. 

6-Reuben Foster: Seems like a playmaking, havoc producing LB who can help blow things up on the defensive side. He makes a lot of sense given that 2 of our starters at LB will be free agents after 2017

7-Corey Davis: He is my favorite of the WRs and I think will be a mega playmaker pairing very well with AJ Green and Dalton's quick strike offense. 

8-Mike Williams: He ran well and would be an excellent second WR for Dalton. 

9-Leonard Fournette: I don't like to draft RBs this highly, but Fournette is likely to be pretty special. 

10-John Ross: Injuries have him fall for me but you can't ignore the production or speed. 

11-OJ Howard: I think they will resign eifert but if not he's a great option for the offense. I don't value TE highly and this is a deep draft so he falls for me. 

12-Taco Charlton: He has the height and size and 1 year production, but 1 year production always scares me (thanks Akili Smith)

13-Hasaan Reddick: He will be a project at LB but seems to have all the tools. I would avoid him with this much other talent available. 

14-Marshon Lattimore: I think we are loaded at CB and it's not a position of need. 

15-Malik Hooker: Our last 2 picks mean I want immediate impact from our first rounder. His injury situation says that might not work. 

16-Dalvin Cook: Bad combine has me looking the other way for now. 

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