Jump to content

John ross for the 9th pick


Recommended Posts

One last point on Ross, I am of the opinion that the 4.22 does matter and boosts him up from a mid-1st to a legit top 10 option (if the injury check is positive). It's not "double-counting" because you already knew he was fast.

Here's why. During the combine ,NFL Network did one of those things where they superimpose two guys 40s together. They did Ross and Marshon Lattimore (who was amongst the fastest CBs with a 4.36). And as you watched them run it at the same time, Ross pulled away and had at least a yard or two separation at the finish line. That kind of stuff translates to real games when you are talking about CB and DBs. Ross running a 4.2 and not a 4.35ish type time is actually important.  Lattimore has about as elite a physical skill set as you can ask for and you can see how Ross is actually fast enough to run right by him. As an opposing D Coordinator, if you can't put your super talented 4.36 CB out there against Ross on an island without fear of him burning you for a long TD, it totally changes how your defense has to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude has elite speed no question about it. The 4.22 is without pads and nobody checking him at the line, just running in a straight line. I read he does run good routes and has good hands. Only thing that really concerns me is his injury history. Im not a fan of him at 9 personally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally, I'm on board with WR at 9. Seems like the best combination of value and team need (unless Solomon Thomas or maybe one of the Safeties falls). 
I don't have a real strong take on which WR I like the best yet.
The big unknown on Ross is the doctor reports and how likely they think future injuries would be. If the doctors give thumbs up, I think he's a great pick. He is a heck of a route runner and very good after the catch. I was impressed that he scored 12 touchdowns inside the red zone in 2016. That's pretty strong evidence that he's not just a deep threat and I've seen comparisons to Antonio Brown, Amari Cooper and Desean Jackson who have all been impactful players worthy of top 10 selection.
Corey Davis would probably leap to the top of my list if he is able to run before the draft and can run a sub-4.5. It's hard to tell on tape just how fast he really is, especially matched up against mostly MAC opponents. Seems like a very good all-around receiver and good guy too. But in terms of bang for the buck at #9, I'd want a confirmed time that showed he has the speed to threaten NFL corners deep. 
I like Mike Williams quite a bit as a player and think he's a pretty safe choice. He's proven it in big spots against top competition and should be a good NFL player in the mold of Deandre Hopkins. I just worry about his value to the Bengals specifically. Boyd is already here as the underneath and over the middle guy. Eifert is already here as the jump ball red zone guy. AJ does a little bit of everything, all at a high level. I've always felt like the offense's best chance of going to that next level is getting a bona fide deep threat across from AJ and I don't think Williams is that guy. 

Well thought out props to you, but heres a couple of things. 1. Ross will never get the thumbs up because doctors unanimously say that microfracture surgery is a "ticking time bomb". couple that with 4 other surgeries in 2 years and its a hard pass. Thats my only problem with ross.
2. I have davis just a hair behind williams. I really like davis, he can run the entire route tree better than anyone in the class and hes probably around zay jones speed 4.46. 3. Williams is my top pick for a variety or reasons. First off aj green will be getting double covered, leaving williams on the other side 1 on 1. Also hes slightly faster than aj green and slightly slower than jones.(jones ran 4.46 at 200 williams 4.49 at 218). He uses his size to body the corner out of the play, or goes up and over him. Hes also fearless going over the middle, something lafell lacks. Player comps are plaxico burress or keenan allen, i would take them both. The way he fits into the offense is he still has that deep threat bc he is elite at getting late seperation as well as having a fast second gear. The man is better at this than anyone ive seen over the last 5 years. When the ball is 7-10 yards away cb step by step with him all of a sudden hes 2 steps behind when the balls there. This is why williams is my favorite juat a hair over davis.but davis or williams at 9 i would be estatic. One thing we do know is williams is clutch.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One last point on Ross, I am of the opinion that the 4.22 does matter and boosts him up from a mid-1st to a legit top 10 option (if the injury check is positive). It's not "double-counting" because you already knew he was fast.
Here's why. During the combine ,NFL Network did one of those things where they superimpose two guys 40s together. They did Ross and Marshon Lattimore (who was amongst the fastest CBs with a 4.36). And as you watched them run it at the same time, Ross pulled away and had at least a yard or two separation at the finish line. That kind of stuff translates to real games when you are talking about CB and DBs. Ross running a 4.2 and not a 4.35ish type time is actually important.  Lattimore has about as elite a physical skill set as you can ask for and you can see how Ross is actually fast enough to run right by him. As an opposing D Coordinator, if you can't put your super talented 4.36 CB out there against Ross on an island without fear of him burning you for a long TD, it totally changes how your defense has to play.

Thats if your running in a straight line. On regular routes, lattimore can get his hips around faster than anyone and will push you to the side. Thats why hes so elite. How many routes do you think well have him run a fly? 2-3 times max? Aftwr that you have to be elite at other aspects with curls, slants, etc. I see davis light years ahead in terms of route running, ross light years ahead of williams. Its like this. Ross wins on fly routes, davis wins on route running, williams wins on size. Pros and cons to each one. Ill take the reciever who proved it against top competition. But i respect your john ross argument and can underatand your side of it as well, though i dont agree.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, happyrid said:

How do you know what teams thought before the combine?

And your comment on the others looking better on film is pure speculation...

I said "if" a team liked Davis/Williams better before the combine then it shouldn't change things.

Don't misquote me then rip me for something I didn't say. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they take Ross, I will be on board and cross my fingers that he can stay healthy.  He projects as a similar player to DeSean Jackson, IMO.  Adding that kind of speed threat to both the receiving and return games could be huge.  It remains to be seen if the Bengals will be willing to take the risk of drafting a player that high with legit injury concerns.  I don't know if rolling the dice on a top 10 pick is a smart move, but I cannot deny the upside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've said it in other threads, but Ross running real fast is cool in spandex but not so much when he's getting jammed the fuck up at the line by a physical DB. 

If the CB plays off and Ross takes a quick slant, he's not taking it to the house, he's getting hurt quick by whoever is in his general area because he doesn't break tackles.

I don't hate Ross, I just don't think he's a top 10 pick, or a first round pick at that. It's not like he magically runs faster now than he did in games a couple of months ago. The tape is out there, watch it. He's a good WR I'm not saying he sucks or anything, but let me grab a guy like that in the 2nd or 3rd round. You take guys like Williams in the top 10. I don't even want a WR but Mike Williams is going to take over games at times in the NFL, especially opposite a top 3 WR in AJ Green. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a ton of WRs that were overdrafted because of super fast 40 times.  Ross strikes me as one of those guys.  And what is the use of running a 4.22 if you can't do it without injuring yourself?  Ross had to bail on the rest of his combine workout because he pulled up lame after his blazing 40.  

Ross is a trap for dumb teams that haven't learned not to over-value a combine workout.  We have seen this one so many times and it never ends well.   Why are people on this board so eager to see the Bengals fall into it?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, BlackBengal said:

There are a ton of WRs that were overdrafted because of super fast 40 times.  Ross strikes me as one of those guys.  And what is the use of running a 4.22 if you can't do it without injuring yourself?  Ross had to bail on the rest of his combine workout because he pulled up lame after his blazing 40.  

Ross is a trap for dumb teams that haven't learned not to over-value a combine workout.  We have seen this one so many times and it never ends well.   Why are people on this board so eager to see the Bengals fall into it?  

And there are just as many "watch the tape" WRs who didn't test well, still got drafted early and busted. Some of the people hyping Williams were saying the exact same things about Laquon Treadwell last draft and he burst out of the gates with 1 catch total as a rookie, spending most of the season as a healthy scratch.  And plenty of others (Mohamed Sanu, maybe Tyler Boyd?) who weren't busts but didn't turn out to be game changers. Just solid possession guys who don't scare defenses. 

And some of the "workout warriors" like Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks, T.Y. Hilton, etc. turned out to be pretty damn good. I'd love to fall into one of those "traps." When you combine blazing speed with big college numbers (like Ross's 18 TDs last year), you end up with a very good NFL player more times than not.

40 time is an important predictor for WRs and CBs. It's easy to forget how many here were super pumped about Darqueze Dennard because "watch the tape" even when there were some glaring concerns about how he'd translate to the NFL with below average size and speed. 

Not to get off topic, but I think the testing vs. production discussion and decision is going to be the story of the draft for the Bengals. Because Derek Barnett is probably the #1 guy they're going to have to make a decision on. Is he the next Jarvis Jones? (Super productive college player, unathletic NFL bust.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of the bengals development at young WR is what they do. Mostly all the WR the bengals drafted became a good wideout in the NFL. Just think of them all. If you have talent at WR the bengals can get it out of you.So if a guy has 4.2 speed i definitely think the bengals can get production out of him.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Go-Bengals.com mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, happyrid said:

And there are just as many "watch the tape" WRs who didn't test well, still got drafted early and busted. Some of the people hyping Williams were saying the exact same things about Laquon Treadwell last draft and he burst out of the gates with 1 catch total as a rookie, spending most of the season as a healthy scratch.  And plenty of others (Mohamed Sanu, maybe Tyler Boyd?) who weren't busts but didn't turn out to be game changers. Just solid possession guys who don't scare defenses. 

And some of the "workout warriors" like Odell Beckham, Brandin Cooks, T.Y. Hilton, etc. turned out to be pretty damn good. I'd love to fall into one of those "traps." When you combine blazing speed with big college numbers (like Ross's 18 TDs last year), you end up with a very good NFL player more times than not.

40 time is an important predictor for WRs and CBs. It's easy to forget how many here were super pumped about Darqueze Dennard because "watch the tape" even when there were some glaring concerns about how he'd translate to the NFL with below average size and speed. 

Not to get off topic, but I think the testing vs. production discussion and decision is going to be the story of the draft for the Bengals. Because Derek Barnett is probably the #1 guy they're going to have to make a decision on. Is he the next Jarvis Jones? (Super productive college player, unathletic NFL bust.)

QFT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, CoachMinich said:

At this point if we want a dynamic offensive player, I'd go Christian McCaffrey

I couldn't agree more......Howard and McCaffrey are my 1 and 1a if we're taking offense at 9. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, kennethmw said:

Well, it wasn't just real fast, it was the fastest recorded time ever.  It was HISTORICALLY fast.  Just saying.

Probably would have been faster if he didn't gimp up. If he comes here I wish nothing but the best, but he has been pretty frail in the past. Just saying.:10_wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ross would be such a Bengals pick. Fast skill player that will sell jerseys and Hobson can write endless puff pieces about. Terrible, terrible decision. WR should not be a priority and an undersized injury prone player at a position that is not a need would be a ridiculous move. John Ross is who Al Davis would pick if he wasn't dead or Mike Brown would pick if he wasn't tied up in the back of the Lumina on draft day.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nfl.com has Ross compared to DeShawn Jackson, the guy I like if we take a WR is Mike Williams who nfl.com compares to Plaxico Burrass

Just a matter of preference but I think Williams would be a better fit in the rough hitting AFCN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, CoachMinich said:

Howard won't open up the offense any more than Eifert

yeah but the two of them together open it up a ton.

who the hell ya gonna stop with Howard, Eifert, Green and Boyd all out there at the same time? especially in the redzone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...