oldschooler Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote][b][size=5][url="http://stripehype.com/2009/03/09/coles-to-make-nearly-10-million-in-2009/"]Coles to Make Nearly $10 Million in 2009[/url][/size][/b] Newly minted Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver [b]Laveranues Coles[/b] will make [url="http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/exnew_york_wide_receiver_coles.html"][color="#f04d23"]nearly $10 million[/color][/url] this year as part of the four-year, $28 million deal he signed last Wednesday. [indent]Coles, who is entering his 10th season, received a $3 million signing bonus, a $4.7 million roster bonus, a $1.9 million base salary and a $100,000 workout bonus all in 2009.[/indent]Coles will earn base salaries of $4.6 million in 2010, $6.4 million in 2011 and $6.4 million in 2012, and is eligible for a $100,000 workout bonus each year as well. The front-loaded deal means that from next year on, the Bengals could cut Coles and free up significant cap space (assuming, of course, that the cap doesn’t go away forever in 2010). For example, Coles would count more than $5.3 million against any 2010 cap, but if he were released, that figure would be reduced to just the remaining unamortized portion of his signing bonus, $2.25 million.[/quote] [url="http://stripehype.com/2009/03/09/coles-to-make-nearly-10-million-in-2009/"]http://stripehype.com/2009/03/09/coles-to-...illion-in-2009/[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote][size=5][b]Laveranues Coles gets paid in Cincinnati[/b][/size] by Dave Hutchinson/The Star-Ledger Monday March 09, 2009, 1:35 PM William Perlman/The Star-Ledger Former Jets receiver Laveranues Coles left $6 million guaranteed on the table when he left the team last month, but signed an even more lucrative deal with the Bengals last week.The numbers are in on Laveranues Coles' contract and they are off the charts. The former Jets wide receiver and his agent, Roosevelt Barnes, gambled and won big. Coles, who walked away from a $6 million guaranteed salary in 2009, signed a four-year, $27.5 million deal with the Cincinnati Bengals that guaranteed him a whopping $9.75 million for the 2009 season. It's an unbelievable take for Coles, who at 31, isn't the player he once was. Coles, who is entering his 10th season, received a $3 million signing bonus, a $4.7 million roster bonus, a $1.9 million base salary and a $100,000 workout bonus all in 2009. Then, he'll earn base salaries of $4.6 million in 2010, $6.4 million in 2011 and $6.4 million in 2012. He gets a $100,000 workout bonus each year as well. Wow. The only problem, however, is that it's the Bengals.[/quote] [url="http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/exnew_york_wide_receiver_coles.html"]http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/e...iver_coles.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scharm Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Is that correct? When is the roster bonus due to be paid? Alot of them are due sometime in March right around the begining of FA. This sounds like it could be a 1 year deal for Coles if that roster bonus is due prior to the FA period next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 how much is TJ making this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='754688' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:19 PM']how much is TJ making this year?[/quote] Exactly. The only thing is that I reckon TJ wanted to move no matter what we offered. The difference between hilarious amounts of money, and obscene amounts isn't great. Whereas new surroundings can make a vast difference to your quality of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote name='scharm' post='754687' date='Mar 9 2009, 04:17 PM']Is that correct? When is the roster bonus due to be paid? Alot of them are due sometime in March right around the begining of FA. This sounds like it could be a 1 year deal for Coles if that roster bonus is due prior to the FA period next year.[/quote] Looks like more of a 2 year deal(9.75 first yr, 4.6 second) 14.35 in first two, with a cap hit of 1.5 after year 2. Covers you if Henry isn't here, or you decide to trade Chad, plus givey you two years to get the other 3 guys (caldwell,simpson, urrita) up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlantNGo Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Now that I see this it looks like a decent deal. TJ got like $15 million guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumble In the Jungle Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 maybe that is also why we're done in Free Agency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalsOwn Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 [quote] The only problem, however, is that it's the Bengals.[/quote Yeah, the Jets have been such a stellar organization the last 10 years, let me tell ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 That's a poorly strucured deal. We could have paid Coles his roster bonus as signing bonus and saved about 3.5 mil on the cap this season. It would still cost the team the same amount and pay Coles the same amount. Actually we would have had to guarantee his second year salary to avoid the 30% raise rule or paid some roster bonus but it's still highly cap inefficient without saving actual cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubdub Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 That money is... Wonder what 85 thinks about his deal...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tigre Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I always love it when the squawking heads talk about cutting someone before he's played a fucking down for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='754761' date='Mar 9 2009, 07:42 PM']That's a poorly strucured deal. We could have paid Coles his roster bonus as signing bonus and saved about 3.5 mil on the cap this season. It would still cost the team the same amount and pay Coles the same amount. Actually we would have had to guarantee his second year salary to avoid the 30% raise rule or paid some roster bonus but it's still highly cap inefficient without saving actual cash.[/quote] I think you're wrong on this one sparky. They recruited a very productive, but older WR, with the thought that he could help their Young guys develop after they lost out on TJ. Either way they do it, yours or theirs, he gets 9.7 this year. now under yours he's got a 4 mill cap cost, but he cost you 6mill of cap next yr, 4 mill in 2, and 2 mill the last. ( i'm overestimating slightly, but you get my drift). With the other way, he costs 7.45 this year, but you can release if you need to with minimal cost, 2.25 next, 1.5 3rd. .75 4th. If he gets hurt, it doesnt hamstring you, if the young boys blow up, you're okay to keep him as mentor and if he stays through the end of the contract he's about 7 mill a year. Like I said earlier its a two year deal, with a good option bonus for years 3 and 4, with an easy out for the team. I think it was a pretty savvy move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeaverHunter Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote]It's an unbelievable take for Coles, who at 31, isn't the player he once was[/quote] I hope he is. They (certain media) have him sounding like a broken down WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='754819' date='Mar 9 2009, 10:15 PM']I think you're wrong on this one sparky. They recruited a very productive, but older WR, with the thought that he could help their Young guys develop after they lost out on TJ. Either way they do it, yours or theirs, he gets 9.7 this year. now under yours he's got a 4 mill cap cost, but he cost you 6mill of cap next yr, 4 mill in 2, and 2 mill the last. ( i'm overestimating slightly, but you get my drift). With the other way, he costs 7.45 this year, but you can release if you need to with minimal cost, 2.25 next, 1.5 3rd. .75 4th. If he gets hurt, it doesnt hamstring you, if the young boys blow up, you're okay to keep him as mentor and if he stays through the end of the contract he's about 7 mill a year. Like I said earlier its a two year deal, with a good option bonus for years 3 and 4, with an easy out for the team. I think it was a pretty savvy move.[/quote] yea, its almost like the people who do this for a living and understand how the cap and rules work did it properly.. and some dumbasses on the internet just like to bitch like 8th grade girls all the time.. weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 From James Walker's blog . . . [quote][list] [*][url="http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2009/03/exnew_york_wide_receiver_coles.html"][color="#666666"]The contract details are in[/color][/url] for Cincinnati Bengals receiver Laveranues Coles, and including bonuses and salary, he will make a whopping $9.75 million for the 2009 season. [/list][i] [b]Morning take:[/b] Front loading the contract likely convinced Coles to come to Cincy. But the Bengals will need Pro Bowl-like numbers from Coles next season to break even on their nearly $10 million investment.[/i][/quote] [url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-207/Morning-take--Bengals--Coles-cashes-in-big.html"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-20...hes-in-big.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Also from James Walker's blog . . . [quote][b]There is a very good chance that the $28 million the [/b][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=cin"][b][color="#666666"]Cincinnati Bengals[/color][/b][/url][b] invested in receiver [/b][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2209"][b][color="#000000"]Laveranues Coles[/color][/b][/url][b] last week was at or around the same money the team offered new [/b][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=tam"][b][color="#000000"]Tampa Bay Buccaneers[/color][/b][/url][b] running back [/b][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5760"][b][color="#000000"]Derrick Ward[/color][/b][/url][b].[/b] The Bengals are usually not major players in free agency but made a push to sign Ward before anyone else. When Ward declined, followed by the loss of receiver [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2753"][color="#000000"]T.J. Houshmandzadeh[/color][/url], Cincinnati still had that money available to spend and offered Coles an average of $7 million per season.[/quote] [url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-205/Inside-the-AFC-North.html"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-20...-AFC-North.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengals1181 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='oldschooler' post='754920' date='Mar 10 2009, 11:05 AM']Also from James Walker's blog . . . [url="http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-205/Inside-the-AFC-North.html"]http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcnorth/0-2-20...-AFC-North.html[/url][/quote] Walker is an idiot. I find it highly unlikely that Ward took $10 million less to play for Tampa over the Bengals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I sure hope the team wasn't offering Ward 7 mil per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='754819' date='Mar 9 2009, 10:15 PM']I think you're wrong on this one sparky. They recruited a very productive, but older WR, with the thought that he could help their Young guys develop after they lost out on TJ. Either way they do it, yours or theirs, he gets 9.7 this year. now under yours he's got a 4 mill cap cost, but he cost you 6mill of cap next yr, 4 mill in 2, and 2 mill the last. ( i'm overestimating slightly, but you get my drift). With the other way, he costs 7.45 this year, but you can release if you need to with minimal cost, 2.25 next, 1.5 3rd. .75 4th. If he gets hurt, it doesnt hamstring you, if the young boys blow up, you're okay to keep him as mentor and if he stays through the end of the contract he's about 7 mill a year. Like I said earlier its a two year deal, with a good option bonus for years 3 and 4, with an easy out for the team. I think it was a pretty savvy move.[/quote] Disagree that it was savvy. My view is that signing Coles was unnecessary unless they're moving Chad. Regardless, Coles is here and let's hope he plays well. As far as his contract structure goes, doing it the team's way gives them less flexibility. The actual cash to Coles is the same either way so he wouldn't care. The difference is that the way it was actually done, the team takes a bigger cap hit this season. The cap is scheduled to go away in 2010 and thereafter. If the cap isn't extended, the team handcuffed itself for 2009. If the cap is extended, the extra cap space the team would have could be rolled forward. There is no circumstance under which taking a larger cap hit this year improves the team's flexibility. It looks to me like they wanted an inflated cap number this year for PR reasons as much as anything else. [quote name='GoBengals' post='754914' date='Mar 10 2009, 10:56 AM']yea, its almost like the people who do this for a living and understand how the cap and rules work did it properly.. and some dumbasses on the internet just like to bitch like 8th grade girls all the time.. weird.[/quote] This will be good. Please tell us Go, how the team is better off taking a bigger cap hit than a smaller one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-GoBengals- Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='754955' date='Mar 10 2009, 12:26 PM']Disagree that it was savvy. My view is that signing Coles was unnecessary unless they're moving Chad. Regardless, Coles is here and let's hope he plays well. As far as his contract structure goes, doing it the team's way gives them less flexibility. The actual cash to Coles is the same either way so he wouldn't care. The difference is that the way it was actually done, the team takes a bigger cap hit this season. The cap is scheduled to go away in 2010 and thereafter. If the cap isn't extended, the team handcuffed itself for 2009. If the cap is extended, the extra cap space the team would have could be rolled forward. There is no circumstance under which taking a larger cap hit this year improves the team's flexibility. It looks to me like they wanted an inflated cap number this year for PR reasons as much as anything else. This will be good. Please tell us Go, how the team is better off taking a bigger cap hit than a smaller one?[/quote] im pretty sure someone already did that.. you must not read well. it frees up space for future years, and reduces cap hit for future years. you know, so the risk involved in signing a over 30 WR to a medium length deal entails. The difference in mnoey year to year on the deal wont effect any signing for this season, and takes less space in future years to either keep OR release him with minimum hit to the cap. please, explain to me, how its negative that the bengals in signing coles vs TJ guaranteed less money, and a decreasing hit for a decreasing talent at that age/position. here is TJ's deal in base salary: 2009 - 5,500,000.00 2010 - 7,000,000.00 2011 - 8,000,000.00 2012 - 8,500,000.00 2013 - 9,000,000.00 makes it pretty attractive to cut his ass instead of keep no matter the production. theyll have a 36 yr old possession receiver counting 10 mil on the cap at the end of his deal.. we will ahve one counting jack shit against the cap. not to mention one who has had an entire career of being more productive with less around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschooler Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote][size=5][b][url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/3/10/788309/breaking-down-laveranues-c"][color="#000000"]Breaking down Laveranues Coles' 2009 contract[/color][/url] [/b][/size] [img]http://cdn2.sbnation.com/profile_images/19467/atari_tiny.gif[/img] [b]by [/b][url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/users/Kirkendall"][b][color="#d8431a"]Kirkendall[/color][/b][/url] on [url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/3/10/788309/breaking-down-laveranues-c"][b][color="#d8431a"]Mar 10, 2009 12:40 PM EDT[/color][/b][/url] in [url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/section/Contracts"][b][color="#d8431a"]Contracts[/color][/b][/url] [img]http://cdn3.sbnation.com/images/icons/comment.v1599.png[/img] 0 comments On Monday, we [url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/3/9/786511/breaking-down-coles-base-s"][b][color="#d8431a"]broke down Laveranues Coles' base salary[/color][/b][/url]. 2009 - $1.9 million 2010 - $4.65 million 2011 - $6.4 million 2012 - $6.4 million We learned a bit later, that Coles would receive $9.75 million in guarantees for 2009. [url="http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=558765"][b][color="#d8431a"]How is that broken down[/color][/b][/url]? Signing Bonus - $3 million Roster Bonus - $4.7 million Base Pay - $1.9 million Workout bonus - $100,000 He will earn a $100,000 workout bonus for each season he's under the existing contract. However, it would seem that a majority of the guarantees that Coles received, is for this season only. If that's the case, then the cap hit is significantly reduced after this year if the Bengals decide to part ways with Coles, essentially making this deal a one-year deal with three option seasons. Hey, it's another way of looking at it.[/quote] [url="http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/3/10/788309/breaking-down-laveranues-c"]http://www.cincyjungle.com/2009/3/10/78830...wn-laveranues-c[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Jeesh. We're paying Coles as much as the Ravens are paying Ray Lewis. Which one will have more impact? I'd rate Lewis as more of an upgrade from Dhani than Coles is from Caldwell or Henry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|kennethmw| Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 [quote name='sparky151' post='754955' date='Mar 10 2009, 01:26 PM']Disagree that it was savvy. My view is that signing Coles was unnecessary unless they're moving Chad. Regardless, Coles is here and let's hope he plays well. As far as his contract structure goes, doing it the team's way gives them less flexibility. The actual cash to Coles is the same either way so he wouldn't care. The difference is that the way it was actually done, the team takes a bigger cap hit this season. The cap is scheduled to go away in 2010 and thereafter. If the cap isn't extended, the team handcuffed itself for 2009. If the cap is extended, the extra cap space the team would have could be rolled forward. There is no circumstance under which taking a larger cap hit this year improves the team's flexibility. It looks to me like they wanted an inflated cap number this year for PR reasons as much as anything else. This will be good. Please tell us Go, how the team is better off taking a bigger cap hit than a smaller one?[/quote] Suprise, suprise, you disagree with me! I wouldn't have expected any different. In fact, when we have something we agree on, I figure that I have screwed up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 [quote name='kennethmw' post='755058' date='Mar 10 2009, 05:31 PM']Suprise, suprise, you disagree with me! I wouldn't have expected any different. In fact, when we have something we agree on, I figure that I have screwed up! [/quote] Actually I enjoy discussing the team with you Kenneth. Go always seems to be in ad hominem mode but you're a sane and reasonable poster. Structuring Coles' contract they way they did minimizes dead money if he is cut during the course of the deal. The name of the game however is maximizing value, not minimizing dead money. It's always better to defer a cap hit if possible. Taking the cap hit earlier than needed is like paying your taxes a year early. It can be done but there are opportunities missed by doing so. Resource allocation is not a strong suit of the team IMO. To me the Coles signing only makes sense if Chad is being moved. If so, we'd need another vet receiver and Coles is certainly better than Furrey or Squirrel. Trading Chad would also free up cap space and in effect reduce the cost of Coles. On the other hand if we keep Coles, I doubt Chad would be happy being the 2nd highest paid WR on the team. There's also the matter of what else we could have done with the money. I'd rather have paid Jason Brown or Ray Lewis the same dollars as Coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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