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Too much isn't enough for Brown


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[quote][size=3][b]Too much isn't enough for Brown[/b][/size]

BY PAUL DAUGHERTY


Here is something you might not have known: It is difficult to be one of 32 monopolists in the most successful, highly profitable league in the history of American sports. It is hard making ends meet in a free stadium that is absolutely filled every time it opens for an NFL game. You think it's easy, scraping by on the proceeds from $8 bottles of beer?

While owners of 30 of the NFL's 32 teams on Monday agreed to share even more money among themselves, Bengals owner Mike Brown voted against it. (The other no vote came from Jacksonville's Wayne Weaver.) It isn't that the Bengals aren't profiting from revenue-sharing; it's that they aren't profiting enough.

The Cincinnati Bengals' logo should not be a tiger; it should be an outstretched hand, palm upturned.

Understand: This was a "supplemental" plan for revenue-sharing. This was sharing on top of sharing. Karl Marx's league just became more generous.

The Bengals don't even know yet how much extra money they'll get on top of the money they already get. All they know is, it's not enough. With the Bengals, it never is.

Because I am not an economist, a capologist or an expert on socialist corporations, maybe I'm not qualified to comment on the Bengals' ongoing cries of poverty. But here's what I do know about our starving little football team:

They sell every seat for every game.

They sell every luxury box, and they keep all the money.

They sell lots of $8 beers, and they keep most of the money.

They're the proud possessors of a Manhattan-for-beads lease that makes them lords of Cincinnati's central riverfront.

The public built them a $600 million stadium our children will be paying for.

And, oh yeah, they've had one winning season in 17 years.

Imagine another business in the free world complaining about this arrangement.

The Bengals' argument boils down to this:

The salary cap is based on a fixed percentage of what the NFL calls gross designated revenues. They come from the national TV contract, ticket and merchandise sales and local sources such as stadium naming rights and advertising. Because the Bengals are in the bottom third of revenues in the league, every time a Washington, New England or New York increases its revenues, the cap rises and the Bengals have to spend a greater portion of their revenues on salaries.

No one should fault Brown for getting the best deal he can. He has to answer to shareholders, even if most of them are related to him. He also feels he has legitimate issues about the long-term financial health of his team.

But consider this:

The Bengals are privately owned. They don't show us their books. They say they're lagging financially and we have to take their word for it.

The list of people sharing in their "poverty" is very short.

If you choose to own a team in a place like Cincinnati, don't expect to make the kind of cash you would in New York. Some owners aren't as wealthy as others, if only because they're located in smaller places and/or they don't work as hard.

So it is that Washington Redskins owner Daniel Snyder, whose team plays in a relatively new stadium that was not publicly funded, gives some of his revenues to an owner like Mike Brown, who has a free stadium. So it is that Jerry Jones, who worked hard to revive the Dallas Cowboys brand, shares equally his merchandise revenues with Brown, who works not at all selling his.

So it is that on Monday, the 15 biggest revenue producers voted to give even more money to the 17 smallest revenue producers. Everyone but Brown and Weaver was fine with that. Again: Fifteen owners agreed to write checks, and two owners said the checks won't be big enough.

Even if I agreed with the Bengals' position that they're heading toward the financial rocks, their constant more-more-more-ing after so much public generosity, faith and good will - and in an industry subsidized like few others, even if you stink - makes me want to lie down in a cool place.

The Reds don't receive nearly the shared revenues the Bengals do. I don't hear Bob Castellini complaining.

E-mail pdaugherty@enquirer.com[/quote]



[url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070328/COL03/703280358/1062/SPT"]Enquirer.com[/url]
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Its an easy fix, if you can't afford to run an NFL franchise then either sell it or shut the fuck up, This crying poverty is flat out laughable.

I was talking to one of the other parents from my sons BB team and he was bitching because it cost him $600 for a tune up on his Hummer, I asked him why would he have a Hummer if he couldn't afford a tune up on it.
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Guest BlackJesus

[quote]it isn't that the Bengals aren't profiting from revenue-sharing; it's that they aren't profiting enough.[/quote]
[b]well since I am a Bengals fan ... I am not objective on this - in the fact that I want Mike Brown to profit more than the other pricks - in the hopes that some of it will aid in the Bengals success & ability to stay in a small market like Cincy till the day I die.[/b]





[quote]The Cincinnati Bengals' logo should not be a tiger; it should be an outstretched hand, palm upturned.[/quote]
[b]And yours should be a fist in your ass .... Mr. "Please Don't Embarrass Us" [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img][/b]





[quote]This was sharing on top of sharing. Karl Marx's league just became more generous.[/quote]
[b]Which is why it is the best sports league in the history of Sports .... talk to "Adam Smiths Major League Baseball" about how their league has been surpassed as the Nations past time. B) [/b]





[quote]Because I am not an economist, a capologist or an expert on socialist corporations, maybe I'm not qualified to comment[/quote]
[b]good then shut the fuck up and write about the weather or a cat stuck in a tree ... dickwad. [/b]





[quote]They sell every seat for every game.[/quote]
[b]Because Marvin has now saved the franchise [/b]





[quote]They sell lots of $8 beers, and they keep most of the money.[/quote]
[b]as does every other NFL team ... except their beers are 10 $ [/b]






[quote]The public built them a $600 million stadium our children will be paying for.[/quote]
[b]"our children" will already be paying for Social Security, the war in Iraq, and fees to half of China who will own half the U.S. in 15 years .... so get used to it. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//23.gif[/img][/b]



[quote]No one should fault Brown for getting the best deal he can.[/quote]
[b]good then shut the fuck up [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//30.gif[/img][/b]





[quote]If you choose to own a team in a place like Cincinnati, don't expect to make the kind of cash you would in New York.[/quote]
[b]Mike Brown is doing the people of Cincinnati a favor by keeping the team in Cincinnati. He could have left to Baltimore for far more money --- if that was his only motivation. [/b]





[quote]So it is that on Monday, the 15 biggest revenue producers voted to give even more money to the 17 smallest revenue producers.[/quote]
[b]Yes ... because the league would blow dick if the 17 smaller teams folded .... you think the NFL would be popular with just the top 15 teams ..... :crazy:

All teams benefit from a healthy, vibrant league ... of 30 competitive teams with a chance at a Superbowl (- Cleveland & Houston). [/b]

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote]The Reds don't receive nearly the shared revenues the Bengals do. I don't hear Bob Castellini complaining.[/quote]
[b]You also won't see Bob in the playoffs this decade or winning a Championship in the following decade either .... + MLB blows ass now because of their economic structure [/b]
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Guest TheBeaverHunter
[quote]They sell every seat for every game.

Because Marvin has now saved the franchise[/quote]

Marvin has NOT saved the franchise. Three 8-8 seasons and one winning season isn't really saving a franchise. He has improved the franchise and gave fans hope. The fact of the matter is Marvin has as many playoff wins as Shula, Coslet, and LeBeau had. I will acknowledge Marvin as our savior when he wins us that trophy.
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[quote name='TheBeaverHunter' post='463572' date='Mar 28 2007, 08:57 AM']Marvin has NOT saved the franchise. Three 8-8 seasons and one winning season isn't really saving a franchise. He has improved the franchise and gave fans hope. The fact of the matter is Marvin has as many playoff wins as Shula, Coslet, and LeBeau had. I will acknowledge Marvin as our savior when he wins us that trophy.[/quote]

Marvin deserves that. He went 8-8. That is his fault.
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I think the revenue sharing is a serious problem for the NFL. As evident by the recent article, Mike Brown has no business being the lead on trying to persuade public, media, and fellow ownership to fix it.


Rooney - votes for it, then says the same things Mike is saying through the local media it comes off completely different and his fan base sees the value in it.

Unfortunately in Cincinnati we've heard this from Mike and even our Baseball team before. 0 zero playoff wins from both and 1 total playoff appearance for a billion dollars worth of stadia.

I'm guessing in pissburgh and other small markets they hear the message and the majority think Baseball. In Cincinnati they hear the message and some think Baseball, some think 90s bengal football.

I do not know what the other owners will respect. I know more consistent winning from both the Reds and Bengals would do alot. They have burnt most of the GOODWILL and TRUST that is necessary between the OWNERS and his FANS.

Winning and Losing effects the preception of the teams. If effects the view of value of having those stadiums. They need to win more.


I'm guessing most Cincinnati fans have had enough of the preaching about the evils of large markets, cash over cap etc. Not saying those aren't legit arguements, but you still can't today say their method is the right way.
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[quote name='scharm' post='463584' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:28 AM']I think the revenue sharing is a serious problem for the NFL. As evident by the recent article, Mike Brown has no business being the lead on trying to persuade public, media, and fellow ownership to fix it.
Rooney - votes for it, then says the same things Mike is saying through the local media it comes off completely different and his fan base sees the value in it.

Unfortunately in Cincinnati we've heard this from Mike and even our Baseball team before. 0 zero playoff wins from both and 1 total playoff appearance for a billion dollars worth of stadia.

I'm guessing in pissburgh and other small markets they hear the message and the majority think Baseball. In Cincinnati they hear the message and some think Baseball, some think 90s bengal football.

I do not know what the other owners will respect. I know more consistent winning from both the Reds and Bengals would do alot. They have burnt most of the GOODWILL and TRUST that is necessary between the OWNERS and his FANS.

Winning and Losing effects the preception of the teams. If effects the view of value of having those stadiums. They need to win more.[/quote]

I like Mike Brown and his family. I like Marvin Lewis. But winning has raised the bar with me and I expect more from both.
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[quote name='Jeb' post='463586' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:32 AM']I like Mike Brown and his family. I like Marvin Lewis. But winning has raised the bar with me and I expect more from both.[/quote]

Coming back strong this season would win them alot of support for the way they are choosing to build a team.

I don't expect people to buy into it on the basis of 3 8-8 seaons and 1 winning season along with their record from the 80's and 90's.
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[quote name='scharm' post='463590' date='Mar 28 2007, 09:35 AM']Coming back strong this season would win them alot of support for the way they are choosing to build a team.

I don't expect people to buy into it on the basis of 3 8-8 seaons and 1 winning season along with their record from the 80's and 90's.[/quote]

We should expect and demand more from both. This team is too good not to deliver.
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First off Doc could have done just a bit of actual research and found out that beers are 6.50 not 8 bucks, some journalist he is :onoudidnt:

Secondly I disagree with his assesment that Mike Brown does nothing to sell his franchise. He hired Marvin, he had a hand in drafting Chad, Rudi, Willie, got lucky and got Carson. He finally gave more control to the coach. All this directly impacts how he sells the team to the city.

When it comes to outside revenue on merchandise they are very high even though their selling opportunity is very low compared to a Dallas, New York, or Washington. Throwing Snyder's name in their is a joke, he does nothing to sell the skins, they sell themselves and so do the cowboys, the boys were "america's team" long before jones got there, him hiring jimmy johnson helped but they were established before him.

The stadium things is comical, why would you not ask for that deal, I guess doc wouldnt want somone else to pay for his house if he had the opportunity. If so many people thought it was a raw deal they should have voted against it and let him move the team to B-more.

The bengals are ok for now but when the cap goes up due to revenue of the higgest grossing teams the bengals will be spending more than the 65% of revenue on player salaires trying to stay level with the cap.

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You can't cry poor if you are unwilling to prove it.

Don't show me you are poor by not signing free agents or retaining good players.

This is how we end up back in the 90's.

Sop is, and always be a penny pinching, tight ass, Lumina driving bastard, that ONLY cares about the bottom line.

If we ever win a big game it will be either because ML is brilliant, we get lucky or Mikey boy is dead and someone who can run a NFL team took over.

I am rooting for the ML is brilliant scenario, but last year raised some doubts.
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[quote name='H.B. Bengal' post='463654' date='Mar 28 2007, 11:33 AM']You can't cry poor if you are unwilling to prove it.

Don't show me you are poor by not signing free agents or retaining good players.

This is how we end up back in the 90's.

Sop is, and always be a penny pinching, tight ass, Lumina driving bastard, [b]that ONLY cares about the bottom line[/b].

If we ever win a big game it will be either because ML is brilliant, we get lucky or Mikey boy is dead and someone who can run a NFL team took over.

I am rooting for the ML is brilliant scenario, but last year raised some doubts.[/quote]

If that were true, they would be the Baltimore Bengals. Or the Los Angeles Bengals.
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[quote]The Reds don't receive nearly the shared revenues the Bengals do. I don't hear Bob Castellini complaining.[/quote]

Whats the Bengals payroll and whats the Reds payroll?
How many people own the Bengals and how many own the Reds?

Also didnt another NFL team (I think it was the Cowboys) want other NFL teams to help pay for a new stadium?
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You may not hear Bob Castellini complaining but nobody is going to confuse their payroll with a large market either.

Give Bob a couple years and if he doesn't improve the overall record of the Reds each year he'll be included in the fan outlash reserved for Mike Brown and Carl Linder.
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[quote name='Jason' post='463792' date='Mar 28 2007, 02:57 PM']If that were true, they would be the Baltimore Bengals. Or the Los Angeles Bengals.[/quote]


WRONG--it just came out that the Baltimore deal wasn't half of what he got here. LA never came a callin. Mike is a putz who wants everything his way and whines about it when he don't get it. If he had invested in the team in coaching and scouting for years, he wouldn't be a "small market" team. City size don't mean squat. Do you hear Green Bay bitchin?? Are they "small market," hell yes. St. Louis, Kansas City, pissburgh, how do these teams make it, being small market and without a 500 million dollar fully tax payer funded stadium. What a jackass is Mike Brown. He is really known as a putz by the rest of the league and an embarassment.
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[quote name='dacow' post='463828' date='Mar 28 2007, 04:46 PM']WRONG--it just came out that the Baltimore deal wasn't half of what he got here. LA never came a callin. Mike is a putz who wants everything his way and whines about it when he don't get it. If he had invested in the team in coaching and scouting for years, he wouldn't be a "small market" team. City size don't mean squat. Do you hear Green Bay bitchin?? Are they "small market," hell yes. St. Louis, Kansas City, pissburgh, how do these teams make it, being small market and without a 500 million dollar fully tax payer funded stadium. What a jackass is Mike Brown. He is really known as a putz by the rest of the league and an embarassment.[/quote]

The Ravens had $26M more in Revenue than the Bengals last year.

Link: [url="http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Revenue.html"]http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_...ns_Revenue.html[/url]
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[quote name='Storm' post='463551' date='Mar 28 2007, 07:43 AM']Its an easy fix, if you can't afford to run an NFL franchise then either sell it or shut the fuck up, This crying poverty is flat out laughable.

[b]I was talking to one of the other parents from my sons BB team and he was bitching because it cost him $600 for a tune up on his Hummer, I asked him why would he have a Hummer if he couldn't afford a tune up on it.[/b][/quote]
[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] nice
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[quote name='dacow' post='463828' date='Mar 28 2007, 04:46 PM']WRONG--it just came out that the Baltimore deal wasn't half of what he got here. LA never came a callin. Mike is a putz who wants everything his way and whines about it when he don't get it. If he had invested in the team in coaching and scouting for years, he wouldn't be a "small market" team. City size don't mean squat. [b]Do you hear Green Bay bitchin?? Are they "small market," hell yes. St. Louis, Kansas City, pissburgh, how do these teams make it, being small market and without a 500 million dollar fully tax payer funded stadium. [/b] What a jackass is Mike Brown. He is really known as a putz by the rest of the league and an embarassment.[/quote]

dacow - this a real issue. Whether your hate for Mike Brown allows you to look at the facts or not is a separate issue.


[quote]That's the opinion of stealers president Art Rooney, who no longer sees the spirit of cooperation from owners that 40 years ago helped launch the NFL's popularity.

"There's no question we have a problem in the league that I'm very concerned about on a going-forth basis," Rooney said during the annual NFL spring meetings. "I think the biggest problem with it really is the attitude of some of the high-revenue teams. I think the only way to say it is that they have a different attitude than some of the big-market people from the old days."

"My fear is that we start to approach things more like some of the other leagues than the way the NFL has approached it," Rooney said. "To me, why change the business model that has been pretty successful? But some of these guys have a different approach to it and that worries me."

"We're in a market that's not growing," Rooney said. "When you look at spendable income statistics in our market, the last time I looked we rank somewhere in the 50s in terms of household spending.

"We're in a market where we have to be concerned about things like this. We look at it as a very serious situation, both in terms of the standpoint of looking at it from a pissburgh situation but also a league-wide standpoint."[/quote]

[url="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07086/772783-66.stm"]pissburgh - Rooney[/url]
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[quote name='Jason' post='463835' date='Mar 28 2007, 04:52 PM']The Ravens had $26M more in Revenue than the Bengals last year.

Link: [url="http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_NFL-Team-Valuations_Revenue.html"]http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_...ns_Revenue.html[/url][/quote]

Oh, and Green Bay had $19M in revenues more then the Bengals.
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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='463555' date='Mar 28 2007, 07:08 AM'][b]You also won't see Bob in the playoffs this decade or winning a Championship in the following decade either .... + MLB blows ass now because of their economic structure [/b][/quote]

MLB has had more diversity of champions than has the NFL. They use different models but baseball is becoming more competitive, even amongst small-market teams.
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[quote name='Jason' post='463792' date='Mar 28 2007, 12:57 PM']If that were true, they would be the Baltimore Bengals. Or the Los Angeles Bengals.[/quote]


He would have moved in a heart beat but he was too cheap to pay the movers and his Lumina can only tow 800 lbs.
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[quote name='H.B. Bengal' post='463864' date='Mar 28 2007, 06:19 PM']He would have moved in a heart beat but he was too cheap to pay the movers and his Lumina can only tow 800 lbs.[/quote]

Also too cheap to build his own stadium, something LA rightfully demands.
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