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Free Agency 08


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Just a brief glance and a chance to start discussion about next years FA's. I know it is premature but this offseason is quiet... [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/32.gif[/img] Bold is the ones who may cost us some money.

UFA (12)
QB Doug Johnson
WR Antonio Chatman
C Alex Stepanovich
[b]G Stacy Andrews[/b]
[b]S Madieu Williams[/b]
CB Keiwan Ratliff
CB Greg Brooks
LB Caleb Miller
LB Landon Johnson
P Kyle Larson
[b]DE Justin Smith[/b]
DE Bryan Robinson

RFA (5)
WR Tab Perry (6)
T Adam Kieft (5)
LB Andre Frazier (?I believe nothing)
DE Jon Fanene (7)
S Indiana Jones (NOTHING)

EFA (4)
WR Glenn Holt
S John Busing
LB Rashad Jeanty
RB Terrence Whitehead
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Guest Tigris
I'm not sold on Madieu. He kind of scared me last season. I think the move to corner would BEST suit him. He just doesn't have the bulk. I still remember Maroney stiff arming him to the ground.
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Guest OzBengal
Landon, Madieu and Larson are the players you would want to extend there.

I think Justin Smith is gone. I think they are keeping him around while Pollack heals and moves to DE.

B-Rob is getting old. I would be surprised if he got extended.

I think Stacy is gone. Some team will give him a ridiculous contract based on the guard market this year and his potential upside.

The rest of the UFAs I couldn't really care about.
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='OzBengal' post='464443' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:45 PM']Landon, Madieu and Larson are the players you would want to extend there.

I think Justin Smith is gone. I think they are keeping him around while Pollack heals and moves to DE.

B-Rob is getting old. I would be surprised if he got extended.

I think Stacy is gone. Some team will give him a ridiculous contract based on the guard market this year and his potential upside.

The rest of the UFAs I couldn't really care about.[/quote]
I'll shit myself is Robinson gets extended. The guy is 30+ and hasn't showed anything worth keeping around... especially while factoring in his age.

If Stacy isn't resigned and goes somewhere else and starts and plays at an all-pro level, I'm going to be pretty bummed. It sucks when you draft a guy, work 4 years on him, coach him up, and then have to watch him walk with nothing in return after you've spent a mid-round draft pick and 4 years of a roster spot for him to get at the level he's at... I really hope he gets extended this season. If not, the Bengals only made another team better with this one.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='464422' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:27 PM']I'm not sold on Madieu. He kind of scared me last season. I think the move to corner would BEST suit him. He just doesn't have the bulk. I still remember Maroney stiff arming him to the ground.[/quote]
how did he scare you? he played solid last year and he would struggle at corner
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Guest OzBengal
[quote name='Tigris' post='464457' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:16 PM']If Stacy isn't resigned and goes somewhere else and starts and plays at an all-pro level, I'm going to be pretty bummed. It sucks when you draft a guy, work 4 years on him, coach him up, and then have to watch him walk with nothing in return after you've spent a mid-round draft pick and 4 years of a roster spot for him to get at the level he's at... I really hope he gets extended this season. If not, the Bengals only made another team better with this one.[/quote]

That is why many teams don't bother with projects. I remember reading stacy's profile from the huddle report (back when it was free) and it said he wouldnt bother to draft him but would try his best to sign him after his rookie contract had expired.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='464457' date='Mar 29 2007, 07:16 PM']I'll shit myself is Robinson gets extended. The guy is 30+ and hasn't showed anything worth keeping around... especially while factoring in his age.[/quote]

for that to happen, someone will have to step up and and prove they can be effective vs. the rush at LDE. no one (including the much celebrated jumpy jr.) has proven they can displace him at this point. we also find ourselves thin at DT with the loss of SS to cleveland. you'd have think that would be a factor in whether he stays. now we KNOW the issue won't be addressed in FA. so do we get another guy (DT) in the draft that's worthy or does the position get passed over again due to that stupid BPA policy that supercedes our glaring needs? i guess only time will tell, but if were you i'd stock up on those "depends" thingies...just for safety's sake. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='bengalsfan850' post='464547' date='Mar 29 2007, 10:11 PM']how did he scare you? he played solid last year and he would struggle at corner[/quote]

The guy was a liability against the run. Madieu is more of a cover guy than a run-supporter. If you'd watch the games, you'd know. Madieu DID make a lot of tackles and did have some flashes of greatness, but the guy had to have had the most missed tackles on the team.

He's more physical than corner, heck I think he's as physical as a safety should be, he just got bullied a little last year. I think he would do well at cornberback. Not a #1, but could be a decent #2 and a very, very good #3.
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='OzBengal' post='464653' date='Mar 30 2007, 05:14 AM']That is why many teams don't bother with projects. I remember reading stacy's profile from the huddle report (back when it was free) and it said he wouldnt bother to draft him but would try his best to sign him after his rookie contract had expired.[/quote]
A lot of teams are going to get that chance. At least ge helped us a little bit last year... hopefully he doesn't play a single down this year (which is near impossible, I know).
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='bengaled' post='464717' date='Mar 30 2007, 10:13 AM']for that to happen, someone will have to step up and and prove they can be effective vs. the rush at LDE. no one (including the much celebrated jumpy jr.) has proven they can displace him at this point. we also find ourselves thin at DT with the loss of SS to cleveland. you'd have think that would be a factor in whether he stays. now we KNOW the issue won't be addressed in FA. so do we get another guy (DT) in the draft that's worthy or does the position get passed over again due to that stupid BPA policy that supercedes our glaring needs? i guess, only time will tell but if were you i'd stock up on those "depends" thingies...just for safety's sake. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img][/quote]

We have Adams, Thornton, Robinson, Fanene, and Peko who can all play DT. Hopefully that can hold for the season and we worry about it next season. I'm seeing a 4th-5th round DT coming in. Maybe we'll draft a Peko clone.
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Guest Master Shake
[quote name='Tigris' post='465149' date='Mar 31 2007, 10:20 AM']The guy was a liability against the run. Madieu is more of a cover guy than a run-supporter. If you'd watch the games, you'd know. Madieu DID make a lot of tackles and did have some flashes of greatness, but the guy had to have had the most missed tackles on the team.

He's more physical than corner, heck I think he's as physical as a safety should be, he just got bullied a little last year. I think he would do well at cornberback. Not a #1, but could be a decent #2 and a very, very good #3.[/quote]

I still think he wasn't 100% back from the shoulder injury the year before. Supposedly shoulder injuries are among the most painful, and it can't be easy to throw your surgically repaired shoulder into a tackle, and imo that, even if it was more psychological, led to many of his missed tackles.

During the second half of 04 and the first half of 05 (before the injury), he wasn't missing those tackles. He was coming up and making plays. I'm hopeful that he can return to that level this year, and I think we'd get a much more favorable deal extending him now after 2 disappointing years rather than wait for him to blow up and cost us millions more to keep.
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='Master Shake' post='465153' date='Mar 31 2007, 10:30 AM']I still think he wasn't 100% back from the shoulder injury the year before. Supposedly shoulder injuries are among the most painful, and [b]it can't be easy to throw your surgically repaired shoulder into a tackle, and imo that, even if it was more psychological, led to many of his missed tackles.[/b]

During the second half of 04 and the first half of 05 (before the injury), he wasn't missing those tackles. He was coming up and making plays. [b]I'm hopeful that he can return to that level this year, and I think we'd get a much more favorable deal extending him now after 2 disappointing years rather than wait for him to blow up and cost us millions more to keep.[/b][/quote]

You're probably right. I can tell you the shoulder injuries suck ass. EVERYTHING you do involved some sort of rotation. I guess the knees are even worst, which you can easily tell why.

That's something the Bengals are going to have to roll the dice on, I think, if they want to get a decent deal from Madieu. Sign him now and hope he pans out and plays better, or do the "wait and see" approach. I would hate to wait, and then see Madieu go to Hawaii. I mean, it would be a good thing in terms of his play and our defense improving, but we'd lose another pro bowler to free agency because he wanted too much $$$.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='465151' date='Mar 31 2007, 10:24 AM']We have Adams, Thornton, Robinson, Fanene, and Peko who can all play DT. Hopefully that can hold for the season and we worry about it next season. I'm seeing a 4th-5th round DT coming in. Maybe we'll draft a Peko clone.[/quote]

wait a minute! you've already cut robinson. that or your pants are getting stinky. so that leaves fanene as the 4th tackle in the rotation...a position he's seen very little time at...not to mention he's spent more time on the IR list than off it.

as i said, we'd be extremely thin at DT if robinson gets cut...not to mention we'd have a hole at DE on rush downs. i'm not saying i like the situation...just that it is the situation.
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='bengaled' post='465167' date='Mar 31 2007, 11:18 AM']wait a minute! you've already cut robinson. that or your pants are getting stinky. so that leaves fanene as the 4th tackle in the rotation...a position he's seen very little time at...not to mention he's spent more time on the IR list than off it.

as i said, we'd be extremely thin at DT if robinson gets cut...not to mention we'd have a hole at DE on rush downs. i'm not saying i like the situation...just that it is the situation.[/quote]
I don't know what you're talking about.

No one cut Robinson. When did I do it? And when did you say we'd be thin at DT of Robinson gets cut?

We're not talking about him getting cut anyway. It's about him getting extended after this season. *That is when I would be surprised if he got EXTENDED and played under another contract.*

No one was talking about him being cut.

If we address our needs this year at DB and LB, we could focus on upgrading the DT position NEXT year. Adams, Thornton would be a year older. Robinson would be no longer under contract (unless extended). It just seems like an opportune time to get better at the position.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='465175' date='Mar 31 2007, 11:31 AM']I don't know what you're talking about.

No one cut Robinson. When did I do it? And when did you say we'd be thin at DT of Robinson gets cut?

We're not talking about him getting cut anyway. It's about him getting extended after this season. *That is when I would be surprised if he got EXTENDED and played under another contract.*

No one was talking about him being cut.

If we address our needs this year at DB and LB, we could focus on upgrading the DT position NEXT year. Adams, Thornton would be a year older. Robinson would be no longer under contract (unless extended). It just seems like an opportune time to get better at the position.[/quote]


alas, we agree, we have JT through 08, peko will replace sam adams as the resident fatty. we can draft a DT next year in the top 2-3 rounds and have him sit behind and share time with JT, and takeover when JT leaves. Peko is signed through 09, which is perfect, he has 2 years under contract after fam adams leaves, so if he does well in his starting role he can be extended before hitting any free agency a year before his deal is up.

out DT situation is actually pretty solid baring any major injures.

JT - BR
SA - PEKO

and i have a feeling we may see adams/peko on some rushing downs if adams is healthy. but thats yet to be seen.
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Guest A-Men-HouseofPain

[quote name='Tigris' post='464422' date='Mar 29 2007, 06:27 PM']I'm not sold on Madieu. He kind of scared me last season. I think the move to corner would BEST suit him. He just doesn't have the bulk.[b] I still remember Maroney stiff arming him to the ground.[/b][/quote]
im really getting sick of hearing this fucking statement. HE FELL DOWN, STOOD UP, TOOK 2 STEPS, AND MARONEY STIFF ARMED HIM. ANY SAFETY IN THE NFL WHO JUST STOOD UP AND TOOK 2 STEPS WILL GET STIFF ARMED BY MARONEY.

"and now i stop being a jackass." :D

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Guest Tigris

[quote name='A-Men-HouseofPain' post='465207' date='Mar 31 2007, 12:28 PM']im really getting sick of hearing this fucking statement. HE FELL DOWN, STOOD UP, TOOK 2 STEPS, AND MARONEY STIFF ARMED HIM. ANY SAFETY IN THE NFL WHO JUST STOOD UP AND TOOK 2 STEPS WILL GET STIFF ARMED BY MARONEY.

"and now i stop being a jackass." :D[/quote]
I could make reference to more, but I'd have to watch the videos. I can't remember specifics. For some reason that one just sticks out to me. It basically sums up our season...

"pretty close, but not close enough"

It was probably a real pivotal (sp.) part of the game where we had to hold them to still have a chance... only reason why I think I remember it so well.

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Guest Tigris
[quote name='GoBengals' post='465203' date='Mar 31 2007, 12:14 PM']alas, we agree, we have JT through 08, peko will replace sam adams as the resident fatty. we can draft a DT next year in the top 2-3 rounds and have him sit behind and share time with JT, and takeover when JT leaves. Peko is signed through 09, which is perfect, he has 2 years under contract after fam adams leaves, so if he does well in his starting role he can be extended before hitting any free agency a year before his deal is up.

out DT situation is actually pretty solid baring any major injures.

JT - BR
SA - PEKO

and i have a feeling we may see adams/peko on some rushing downs if adams is healthy. but thats yet to be seen.[/quote]
unless okoye or branch (im not really sold on either, but the more i see that picture of okoye over tyrone moss just makes me want him to be a bengal more... and i know that is a horrible way of reasoning a draft pick, but i cant help it) falls to us, i dont there is a snowball chance in hell we draft a DT in the first 2 rounds... and if we do, you can say byebye to either JT or Robinson after the season (probably Robinson b/c of his contract situation... but JT's price tag would be EXTREMELY high next season for what he does here - presuming his pay increases from this upcoming season).

1. CB
2. LB
4. S
5. DE
6. TE
7. QB
7. CB

I'm seeing a Casey Bramlet pick in this draft as well as a Bennie Brazell pick (speed, has potential, but for defense) with the 7th rounders.

This is assuming Justin doesn't get dealt on draft day.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='465220' date='Mar 31 2007, 12:51 PM']unless okoye or branch (im not really sold on either, but the more i see that picture of okoye over tyrone moss just makes me want him to be a bengal more... and i know that is a horrible way of reasoning a draft pick, but i cant help it) falls to us, i dont there is a snowball chance in hell we draft a DT in the first 2 rounds... and if we do, you can say byebye to either JT or Robinson after the season (probably Robinson b/c of his contract situation...[b] but JT's price tag would be EXTREMELY high next season for what he does here - presuming his pay increases from this upcoming season)[/b].

1. CB
2. LB
4. S
5. DE
6. TE
7. QB
7. CB

I'm seeing a Casey Bramlet pick in this draft as well as a Bennie Brazell pick (speed, has potential, but for defense) with the 7th rounders.

This is assuming Justin doesn't get dealt on draft day.[/quote]

for what he does here? you mean being the only healthy solid DT the team has had in 4 years?

his pay goes up $250,000 robinsons deal is up, so he will surely be done. i still think we might unload smith on draft day for a 2nd or 3rd rounder...
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Guest Tigris
[quote name='GoBengals' post='465227' date='Mar 31 2007, 01:19 PM']for what he does here? you mean being the only healthy solid DT the team has had in 4 years?

his pay goes up $250,000 robinsons deal is up, so he will surely be done. i still think we might unload smith on draft day for a 2nd or 3rd rounder...[/quote]

Peko put up almost identical numbers to Thornton's last season while playing far less. I'd take Peko's salary and production over JT's salary and production any day. Check out Robinson's, too. Almost identical numbers to JT's, but he is getting payed about half of what he is.

Could it be that JT has been the only solid DT on this team the last 4 years because he's the only DT that has been on this team for the last 4 years? Sam came last year as did Peko. Robinson (and Fanene, if he ends up being a DT) the year before.

A dirty cup of water may look like paradise after drinking piss for years. I think this might be the case with JT. Because the rest of the DTs we've had the last four years have been shitty, it makes Thornton look like a decent player. In my opinion, I don't think Thornton is worth what he is being payed. But until we find someone better to replace him and keep solid depth, he's going to be here and be overpayed (which is fine with me, but I'd sure like to have had that extra cap room to make a move towards a free agent). I think Peko is the best DT we have.

[quote name='GoBengals' post='465227' date='Mar 31 2007, 01:19 PM']for what he does here? you mean being the only healthy solid DT the team has had in 4 years?

[b]his pay goes up $250,000 robinsons deal is up, so he will surely be done. i still think we might unload smith on draft day for a 2nd or 3rd rounder...[/b][/quote]
I hope so... for a 2nd anyway.
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[quote name='Tigris' post='465256' date='Mar 31 2007, 03:02 PM']Peko put up almost identical numbers to Thornton's last season while playing far less. I'd take Peko's salary and production over JT's salary and production any day. Check out Robinson's, too. Almost identical numbers to JT's, but he is getting payed about half of what he is.

[b]Could it be that JT has been the only solid DT on this team the last 4 years because he's the only DT that has been on this team for the last 4 years? [/b]Sam came last year as did Peko. Robinson (and Fanene, if he ends up being a DT) the year before.

A dirty cup of water may look like paradise after drinking piss for years. I think this might be the case with JT. Because the rest of the DTs we've had the last four years have been shitty, it makes Thornton look like a decent player. In my opinion, I don't think Thornton is worth what he is being payed. But until we find someone better to replace him and keep solid depth, he's going to be here and be overpayed (which is fine with me, but I'd sure like to have had that extra cap room to make a move towards a free agent). I think Peko is the best DT we have.
I hope so... for a 2nd anyway.[/quote]

thats exactly why, and there is a reason for it, do you think marvin and the front office forget he is here and ignore his cap number every year and just replace the other guy every year? we have been over this, tere are 64 starting DT's in the league, JT is always amung the top 1/3rd peko did well, doesnt mean jt didnt, chris henry scored more touchdowns than chad johson and his salary is 1.10th what chads it. does that mean henry is better than chad? jojo put up more passes defended than almost any other corner in the league, and gets paid beans, are all other corners in the league dog shit?

Asante Samuel
Chris McAlister
Champ Bailey
Rashean Mathis
Anthony Henry
Charles Woodson

thats a list of CB's who deflected more passes than JOJO. tied with nate clements, who only had 3 picks as a starter, jojo was doing clean up duty.

you can toss meaningless stats at DT around all day and get no where. there is a reason the coaches and team have kept him over every single dt since marvin arrived. didnt draft his replacement, and hasnt cut his playing time.,

if he isnt very good, why would all of that be true? is marvin a retard? the front office LOVES spending hella cash when its not worthwihle?

or common sense?
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