An early look at the Bengals 2008 draft (DDN)

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]An early look at the Bengals 2008 draft[/b][/size]
By Chick Ludwig , Carlos "Big C" Holmes

Staff Writer

Friday, December 07, 2007

CINCINNATI — With the 4-8 Bengals nearing elimination from playoff contention for the 16th time in 17 years, it's time to look ahead to 2008.

The needs are everywhere except quarterback, where Carson Palmer is signed through 2014.

Every position on the 29th-ranked defense must be addressed. The offensive line needs depth. And wide receiver can't be ignored because T.J. Houshmandzadeh's contract expires after the 2008 season.

Here's an early look at the Bengals' 2008 draft:

• Round 1 - Defensive end: With Justin Smith expected to bolt in free agency, the club needs an impact pass rusher to complement Robert Geathers. Smith (2 sacks) hasn't lived up to his $8.6 million salary as the franchise player.

Big C's projection: Ohio State's Vernon Gholston or Virginia's Chris Long. Gholston has the ability to shed blocks, maul the QB and blow up running plays. Long is a hard-try, technically-sound warrior with great bloodlines. He's the son of Hall of Famer Howie Long.

The top free agents: Jared Allen, Chiefs; Terrell Suggs, Ravens; Mike Rucker, Panthers.

• Round 2 - Defensive tackle: LDT Domata Peko has been a pleasant surprise as a fourth-round pick in 2006. Now he needs a run-stuffing, pass-rushing wide body next to him. John Thornton has one-year remaining on his contract, but his price tag ($3.5 million) could make him a cap casualty.

Big C's projection: Texas' Frank Okam. The Longhorns are known for producing top-notch defensive tackles, and Okam (6-5, 320) is in the mold of Shaun Rogers, Casey Hampton and Marcus Tubbs. Okam is a big, mobile, space eater who stuffs the run and pressures the passer.

The top free agents: Albert Haynesworth, Titans; Corey Williams, Packers.

• Round 3 - Offensive tackle: The Bengals locked up their bookends - LT Levi Jones and RT Willie Anderson - through 2012 and 2011. But both are fighting knee injuries and may not be worth their $3 million salaries in 2008. The team needs to re-sign unrestricted free agent Stacy Andrews.

Big C's projection: Pitt's Mike McGlynn is an Eric Steinbach clone. McGlynn is very durable and versatile, having played all positions along the offensive line and not missing a game in three seasons. He's a tenacious blocker who serves as the Panthers' long snapper.

The top free agents: Flozell Adams, Cowboys; Jordan Gross, Panthers; Max Starks, Steelers.

• Round 4 - Safety: FS Madieu Williams is a free agent who will likely test the open market, and SS Dexter Jackson is Mr. Inconsistent. Rookies Chinedum Ndukwe and Marvin White have potential, but the club needs a playmaker to bolster the secondary.

Big C's projection: UTEP's Quintin Demps is a ball hawk who makes plays in centerfield. He's quick, athletic and shows excellent burst in and out of his cuts. Demps is also an explosive kick returner who will give the special teams a boost.

The top free agents: Mike Doss, Vikings; Ken Hamlin, Cowboys.

• Round 5 - Linebacker: The Bengals made a big mistake by not signing Landon Johnson to a long-term deal. He'll test free agency along with Caleb Miller, Lemar Marshall and Dhani Jones. The club can't count on David Pollack (injury) or Odell Thurman (suspension) returning.

Big C's projection: The Bengals can go right across the bridge and snag a tackling-machine in Kentucky's Wesley Woodyard. He's a speedy outside 'backer with the range and cover skills to play every down. Woodyard (6-1, 215) needs to add some bulk so he can hold up at the point of attack.

The top free agents: Lance Briggs, Bears; Karlos Dansby, Cardinals; Demorrio Williams, Falcons.

• Round 6 - Tight end. If the position hasn't been forgotten, it's at least been ignored. The team hasn't drafted a tight end since Matt Schobel in 2002. Hey, it's about time. Reggie Kelly is one of the NFL's finest blockers. He needs a pass-catching complement down the middle of the field.

Big C's projection: Louisville's TE Gary Barnidge is a strong receiver in a pass-happy offense. A good route-runner with soft hands, he has average speed but is seemingly always open. He's Brian Brohm?s go-to guy in the clutch.

The top free agents: L.J. Smith, Eagles; Eric Johnson, Saints; Marcus Pollard, Seahawks.

• Round 7 - Tailback. Rudi Johnson's 2008 salary ($3.2 million) could make him a cap casualty. With Chris Perry and Kenny Irons coming off injuries, Kenny Watson needs a mate. There's plenty of depth...and question marks.

Big C's projection: Ohio U's Kalvin McRae set single-season school records of 1,434 yards, 19 rushing TDs, nine 100-yard games and 294 carries. He doesn't have great speed (4.5) but is a quick, tough, instinctive runner, and a reliable receiver out of the backfield.

The top free agents: Michael Turner, Chargers; Jamal Lewis, Browns; Justin Fargas, Raiders.[/quote]

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]NFL Draft: Time to plan ahead for Bengals[/b][/size]
By Chick Ludwig

Staff Writer

Friday, December 07, 2007

CINCINNATI — It's never too early for Bengals fans to start thinking about the 2008 NFL draft (April 26-27) and free agency period (Feb. 29).

With 11 projected unrestricted free agents (UFAs) populating the roster, major personnel changes are on the horizon.

In addition to punter Kyle Larson, the UFAs are defensive ends Justin Smith and Bryan Robinson; linebackers Landon Johnson, Dhani Jones, Lemar Marshall and Caleb Miller; free safety Madieu Williams; offensive tackle Stacy Andrews; center Alex Stepanovich; and wide receiver Antonio Chatman.

Four others with high 2008 price tags - defensive tackle John Thornton ($3.5 million), tailback Rudi Johnson ($3.2 million), cornerback Deltha O'Neal ($1.6 million) and strong safety Dexter Jackson ($1.3 million) - could become salary cap casualties.

It's time to plan ahead.


Contact this reporter at (937) 225-2253 or cludwig@DaytonDailyNews.com[/quote]

[Lawman]

I caught Parcells I believe it was on NFLAccess/Live

He was saying that there is "alot of meat on the bone in this years Free Agency market". Without knowing if
the Bengals will dip into it (something they seem to avoid in the past) makes it hard to project a mock.

But, if Gholston is there when we pick and we did take him, I would have no problem with that. Yesterday, I stumbled across a replay of last years Ohio State vs Michigan game and he was force in that one like he was this year.

Now with that said, "What is the deal with Rucker?" Fanene has seen some action and I see him going in itseems every time on goal-line situations. But, from a piece I seen, in Ruckers last game he played he was on 7 snaps with 4 tackles and a fumble recovery. Whats the deal?

We need presssure on the QB and I believe moving Gaithers back to an end was one of the smarter things the team has done this year. So we do need a pass rusher on the other end. Will Pollack be healthy?

Additionally,I see little pressure from up the middle. I like Peko and in the pissburgh game, I thought B-Rob played well. But, I did not see much of a push which leads me to believe that this maybe more of an issue to address.

I would like Sedric Ellis to fill that void if he is available, I believe Chris Ellis/Quentin Groves could be available
in the 2nd. Chris Ellis seems more of a fit for us due to our scheme of dropping people into coverage, I seen one game this year (Miami I believe) where he did just that and picked-off a pass for a TD. Heremindsme of the Dolphins Jason Taylor, he does have a high motor and runs well.

I think this is going tobe one crazy off-season for us, due to all of the question marks that surrounds this team.

[Scoutforlife591]

Stupid, bad article by Chick

He picks almost all local teams for the picks, thus to drum up support.

He brings in "a draft expert" because its obvious he and his hall of fame vote don't pay enough attention to every level of the NFL.

He doesn't say where we will likely be drafting (5-15)

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Lawman' post='605810' date='Dec 8 2007, 08:49 AM']I caught Parcells I believe it was on NFLAccess/Live

He was saying that there is "alot of meat on the bone in this years Free Agency market". Without knowing if
the Bengals will dip into it (something they seem to avoid in the past) makes it hard to project a mock.

But, if Gholston is there when we pick and we did take him, I would have no problem with that. Yesterday, I stumbled across a replay of last years Ohio State vs Michigan game and he was force in that one like he was this year.

Now with that said, "What is the deal with Rucker?" Fanene has seen some action and I see him going in itseems every time on goal-line situations. But, from a piece I seen, in Ruckers last game he played he was on 7 snaps with 4 tackles and a fumble recovery. Whats the deal?

We need presssure on the QB and I believe moving Gaithers back to an end was one of the smarter things the team has done this year. So we do need a pass rusher on the other end. Will Pollack be healthy?

Additionally,I see little pressure from up the middle. I like Peko and in the pissburgh game, I thought B-Rob played well. But, I did not see much of a push which leads me to believe that this maybe more of an issue to address.

I would like Sedric Ellis to fill that void if he is available, I believe Chris Ellis/Quentin Groves could be available
in the 2nd. Chris Ellis seems more of a fit for us due to our scheme of dropping people into coverage, I seen one game this year (Miami I believe) where he did just that and picked-off a pass for a TD. Heremindsme of the Dolphins Jason Taylor, he does have a high motor and runs well.

I think this is going tobe one crazy off-season for us, due to all of the question marks that surrounds this team.[/quote]


Moving Geathers back to end only looked so good because it was collosally stupid to move him in the first place (for so long)!

I definately like the idea of Ellis or another top DT in the first round. There are many more DE's out there available.

[fredtoast]

If we look at a free agent safety I want Gibril Wilson. I don't know why he doesn't get more mention as one of the top players available at his position.

[CarsonDaMan]

At this point Chris Long is probably the best option. With Justin hopefully not coming back this would be the perfect guy to replace him. He's been a machine for Virginia this last year, has perfect measurables, and you also have to love the guy's bloodlines.

Couldn't go wrong with Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis either.

Whatever it is that front seven needs to improve.

[cinci1fan1]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='605848' date='Dec 8 2007, 10:59 AM']If we look at a free agent safety I want Gibril Wilson. I don't know why he doesn't get more mention as one of the top players available at his position.[/quote]

May be that helps us to sign him since Mike brown dosent sign any [b]big name[/b] free agent

I support this move.He is one heck of a safety to have.Also fred what about D-line. How good is Frank okam.I seen couple of texas games and he looked good to me.What do you think his number would be in draft

[akiliMVP]

[quote name='cinci1fan1' post='605860' date='Dec 8 2007, 12:45 PM']May be that helps us to sign him since Mike brown dosent sign any [b]big name[/b] free agent

I support this move.He is one heck of a safety to have.Also fred what about D-line. How good is Frank okam.I seen couple of texas games and he looked good to me.What do you think his number would be in draft[/quote]
Okam is a late first early second rounder. Like most big tackles, he can be dominant one play and horrible the next. The word lazy has been tossed around when talking about Okam.

[CTBengalsFan]

I'd take Gibril Wilson too, very underrated

[USN Bengal]

Well here is the problem with the draft and FA... if we are using the same scouts and coaches to evaluate the talent that we have on the D right now... then we are screwed.
Honestly, do we want someone that one of the Hayes brothers likes to be drafted on the D-line?
I sure as hell don't want to take that chance. IMHO, if our current D coaches are still here and we manage to pick a stud DT oe DE... it will be a coincidence or pure blind luck.

Same with any low to mid-level FA that we might possibly pick up... we need different talent evaluators to become successful on defense.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='605881' date='Dec 8 2007, 01:52 PM']Well here is the problem with the draft and FA... if we are using the same scouts and coaches to evaluate the talent that we have on the D right now... then we are screwed.
Honestly, do we want someone that one of the Hayes brothers likes to be drafted on the D-line?
I sure as hell don't want to take that chance. IMHO, if our current D coaches are still here and we manage to pick a stud DT oe DE... it will be a coincidence or pure blind luck.

Same with any low to mid-level FA that we might possibly pick up... we need different talent evaluators to become successful on defense.[/quote]


other than Rucker, Nicholson, Keiwan (and maybe askew), what questionable picks have been made recently with regards to talent?


Thurman they took a chance on
Brooks is a first round talent they used a 3rd on.
Geathers and Peko have been 4th round gems
Ndukwe has been good so far as a 7th.
Leon Hall and Joseph both look to be solid corners for years to come.
Fanene (when he's played) has been decent for a 7th.
Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years.
White and Kilmer and Toeaina are TBD.
Madieu has been a mild disapointment as a 2nd.
Caleb (a 3rd) has been a decent backup, but exposed in a starters role.
Weathersby and Pollack have had unfortunate circumstances.


I don't disagree that I'd like to see some more scouts, but its not like the draft has been the issue with this team lately.

[|Tigers Johnson|]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='605906' date='Dec 8 2007, 03:42 PM']other than Rucker, Nicholson, Keiwan (and maybe askew), what questionable picks have been made recently with regards to talent?


Thurman they took a chance on
Brooks is a first round talent they used a 3rd on.
Geathers and Peko have been 4th round gems
Peko has been good so far as a 7th.
Leon Hall and Joseph both look to be solid corners for years to come.
Fanene (when he's played) has been decent for a 7th.
Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years.
White and Kilmer and Toeaina are TBD.
Madieu has been a mild disapointment as a 2nd.
Caleb (a 3rd) has been a decent backup, but exposed in a starters role.
Weathersby and Pollack have had unfortunate circumstances.


I don't disagree that I'd like to see some more scouts, but its not like the draft has been the issue with this team lately.[/quote]

Peko was a 4th I believe.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Tigers Johnson' post='605908' date='Dec 8 2007, 04:12 PM']Peko was a 4th I believe.[/quote]

that was supposed to say Ndukwe.

[Ochosucko]

Well if they lose M. Williams in free agency, I don't know how they wait until the 4th round to draft a safety. They took two safeties this year, one in the fourth round and he has barely seen the field on D. Now Chick thinks that the Bengals will be okay going into next season with two 4th rounders, a 7th rounder, and Djax. If I were an opposing offensive cordinator I would be creaming my pants to go against that lineup. I think the best thing that could happen if the Bengals get a top ten pick is to trade down a few spots, and then draft Phillips at S from Miami in the first round. I think this will help bolster the Bengals secondary.

[Scoutforlife591]

Um, yeah, I bet Breshnahan creamed his pants when he saw us playing the Patriots and their 7th Rd QB.

More likely the back of his pants and not the front though.

You can't just say two 4ths, a 7th and Dexter.

More like, an athletic inexperienced safety, a rookie 4th Rder, a good hitter in Ndukwe, and an inconsistent Dexter Jackson.

Screw Phillips. I wouldn't mind having him, but if they want to remake this defense, you sign Suggs and draft Ellis. That COMPLETELY changes this defense.

Plus, drafting a talented DT allows us to cut or forcibly restructure Thornton. Giving us more money to sign an impact FA.

[BengalsOwn]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='605906' date='Dec 8 2007, 03:42 PM']other than Rucker, Nicholson, Keiwan (and maybe askew), what questionable picks have been made recently with regards to talent?


Thurman they took a chance on
Brooks is a first round talent they used a 3rd on.
Geathers and Peko have been 4th round gems
Ndukwe has been good so far as a 7th.
Leon Hall and Joseph both look to be solid corners for years to come.
Fanene (when he's played) has been decent for a 7th.
Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years.
White and Kilmer and Toeaina are TBD.
Madieu has been a mild disapointment as a 2nd.
Caleb (a 3rd) has been a decent backup, but exposed in a starters role.
Weathersby and Pollack have had unfortunate circumstances.


I don't disagree that I'd like to see some more scouts, but its not like the draft has been the issue with this team lately.[/quote]

I love how, after leading the league in TD receptions given up, Joseph and Hall look to be solid corners for years to come.

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='605906' date='Dec 8 2007, 03:42 PM']other than Rucker, Nicholson, Keiwan (and maybe askew), what questionable picks have been made recently with regards to talent?


Thurman they took a chance on [b][color="#FF0000"]...and it didn't work.[/color][/b]
Brooks is a first round talent they used a 3rd on....[b][color="#FF0000"]a [i]potential [/i]1st round talent, he hasn't shown it yet.[/color][/b]
Geathers and Peko have been 4th round gems... [b][color="#FF0000"]I agree, although all we have to compare them to is the rest of the nondescript trash we have on the D-line... they might just be average NFL liemen.[/color][/b]
Ndukwe has been good so far as a 7th. [b][color="#FF0000"]I like Ndukwe too, pleasant surprise[/color][/b]
Leon Hall and Joseph both look to be solid corners for years to come.[b][color="#FF0000"]maybe, JJ's woes were [i]hopefully[/i] from the injury, only time will tell[/color][/b]
Fanene (when he's played) has been decent for a 7th. [b][color="#FF0000"]Come on 1181, he can't stay healthy long enough to tell if he's worth a damn[/color][/b]
Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years. [b][color="#FF0000"]Yes, but once again, would he even start on any other NFL team? Before this year, I would've said no[/color][/b]
White and Kilmer and Toeaina are TBD. [b][color="#FF0000"]True[/color][/b]
Madieu has been a mild disapointment as a 2nd. [b][color="#FF0000"]True dat[/color][/b]
Caleb (a 3rd) has been a decent backup, but exposed in a starters role. [b][color="#FF0000"]At best would only be a ST player on any other NFL team[/color][/b]
Weathersby and Pollack have had unfortunate circumstances. [b][color="#FF0000"]Bad Luck Schleprock is Weathersby, and I just want Pollack to be healthy.[/color][/b]


I don't disagree that I'd like to see some more scouts, but its not like the draft has been the issue with this team lately.[/quote]

The ONLY proven 1st round talent above was Odell. I think Hall and JJ will work out eventually, and I have hope for Brooks, Geathers, and Peko.

So that's 6 guys out of 5 years on the defense. Granted, you can't count on the bad luck guys like Pollack and Weathersby... but I think that our trouble area's have been kept a mess by our lack of talent evaluation.
Defense has been the continuous problem for this team. With the different coaches, scheme's, and personnel that have been here... you would've thought by now that we would have been at least consistently mediocre.

We're not though, and what's the ONLY thing that has been consistent during the past 17 years?

The talent evaluators.

'nuff said.

[fredtoast]

[i]Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years. Yes, but once again, would he even start on any other NFL team? Before this year, I would've said no[/i]

That is just crazy. Last season among NFL LBs Landon was 5th in forced fumbles, in the top 20 in tackles nad in the top 30 in passes defended.

In '05 when he played mostly SAM he was 14th in the league among LBs in stuffs (tackles for loss on running plays).

Considering that there are over 100 starting LBs in the NFL, andd Landon has started at three different LB positions I'd say that there are very few teams that he wouldn't be a starter for.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='605917' date='Dec 8 2007, 06:06 PM']I love how, after leading the league in TD receptions given up, Joseph and Hall look to be solid corners for years to come.[/quote]


because every cornerback comes right into the league and is Champ Bailey right? Part of what goes with being a rookie is making mistakes and taking your rookie lumps. If you can't see the talent in those guys, I don't know what to tell you. And I'm sure our lack of pass rush has nothing to do with how they look either. Between them they have 18 pass deflections and 7 INT's.


Out of curiosity, since you CLAIM to know, how many TD's have they given up and how does that compare to other tandems?

[bengalsfan850]

we need to spend 2 of our top 3 picks on guys who can create a pass rush, a DE and a DT

we have 18 sacks in 12 games just 18!!! or 1.5 a game, and out of those 18 FIVE came against the chiefs, so 13 in 11 games or 1.18 per game, if our secondary is going to realize it's potential we need to average about 2 per game, and not only that we need to pressure the QB on plays that we don't get to him and force bad throws which= more picks and less TDs, a healthy brooks would go a long way toward geting more pressure but we need more gusy than geathers and sometimes peko to provide consistant pressure from the front four.

[claptonrocks]

The defensive line is straw the stirs the rest of the drink..

If the line creates Pressure the opposing QB has to unload quicker making the backers and defensive backs jobs easier in containment and coverage...
The team has some decent DT's in run stoppiing but noone who really penetrates or collapses the pocket..

DT Sedric Ellis is a penetrator.. extrememy strong and quick.. creates pressure up the middle.
DT Frank Okam is a guy that clogs the middle ....
so which one would FIT the Bengal scheme more? Ellis is a first rounder .. Okam by all accounts is a high second pick...

DE...Chris Ellis seems to fit the mold of what the team needs from the outside...
DE...Vern Gohlstein is a pass rusher that needs work on run defense but looks strong enough
to adapt..

Gohlstein projects as a middle first rounder and Ellis could go high in the second..

Sedric Ellis and Chris Ellis in the first two rounds would be a good draft imo..
Gohlstein and Okam would help as well although they dont fit all the criteria of what the
teams objective would be and thats penetration up the middle and run containment on the outside....

Thoughts?

[USN Bengal]

[quote name='fredtoast' post='605930' date='Dec 8 2007, 07:56 PM'][i]Landon (a 3rd) has been our most consistent LB the past 4 years. Yes, but once again, would he even start on any other NFL team? Before this year, I would've said no[/i]

That is just crazy. Last season among NFL LBs Landon was 5th in forced fumbles, in the top 20 in tackles nad in the top 30 in passes defended.

In '05 when he played mostly SAM he was 14th in the league among LBs in stuffs (tackles for loss on running plays).

Considering that there are over 100 starting LBs in the NFL, andd Landon has started at three different LB positions I'd say that there are very few teams that he wouldn't be a starter for.[/quote]

So?

In 2005 we had anther LB who actually made plays... Thurman.
I wonder what his placing was since 2005 for tackles for stuffs? I notice you did not quote those.
What do those placings mean when you suck against the run and pass? Where were all those tackles made?
Downfield, after the gains were already made. Where were the fumbles forced... downfield.

Quote all the stats you want, he was/is NOT a top tier LB. If the Bengals ever kept him at one position, maybe he would be... but we'll never know that. Look at our defense...'nuff said.

[dacow]

"At this point Chris Long is probably the best option. With Justin hopefully not coming back this would be the perfect guy to replace him. He's been a machine for Virginia this last year, has perfect measurables, and you also have to love the guy's bloodlines."

MAN you are right on. This dude is the perfect replacement for Bustin. Another Johnny try hard guy who is not big enough, quick enough or good enoughl

[CarsonDaMan]

[quote name='dacow' post='606629' date='Dec 9 2007, 06:34 PM']"At this point Chris Long is probably the best option. With Justin hopefully not coming back this would be the perfect guy to replace him. He's been a machine for Virginia this last year, has perfect measurables, and you also have to love the guy's bloodlines."

MAN you are right on. This dude is the perfect replacement for Bustin. Another Johnny try hard guy who is not big enough, quick enough or good enoughl[/quote]


Oh tis the day when the nation is finally discriminating against white men. On what basis is Chris Long going to be another Justin Smith?

Not big enough?? 6'4, 275 lbs is pretty much the prototype for a 4-3 DE. It's nearly impossible to find a guy with skills AND the desired size.

Not quick enough? 4.7 40 speed isn't shabby for a man of that size. I'd be curious to see how the guy measures out in shuttles drill and what not but the kid surely doesn't lack athleticism.

Not good enough? Puhleeeease. 14 sacks this year...19 tackles for loss...1 interception... 2 forced fumbles... and even throw in a blocked kick this year. If you really think the guy can't play football I want what you're smoking.


So to be honest the only reason i can see that you dislike him is because he looks like Justin Smith. AKA a white kid that plays hard. To sum it up Chris Long is a better athlete and has better instincts than Justin ever will. And that's what's going to make him a pro along the lines of other white men like Jared Allen, Aaron Kampman, and Patrick Kerney.