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We need him. No question about it. Carson is so shaky. The only way to cure that is get him top notch OL. I want to get back to 2005 form.

Levi, Faneca, Bluto (or replacement), Williams and Whit.

That is not asking too much. Sign him. I don't care if you have to cut Rudi, Willie and let TJ go as a FA. A love those guys, but without a confident QB, our future games will all look like the SF game.
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[quote name='sois' post='610244' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:35 PM']We need him. No question about it. Carson is so shaky. The only way to cure that is get him top notch OL. I want to get back to 2005 form.

Levi, Faneca, Bluto (or replacement), Williams and Whit.

That is not asking too much. Sign him. I don't care if you have to cut Rudi, Willie and let TJ go as a FA. A love those guys, but without a confident QB, our future games will all look like the SF game.[/quote]

If we sign Alex Faneca, I will give up being a Bengals fan

The last thing this team needs to do is go out and overpay an offensive lineman this offseason...

Resign Stacey and call it a day...

This might be the worst idea I've ever heard of
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[quote name='bengalsfan850' post='610251' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:43 PM']i'd much rather bring in suggs or haynesworth[/quote]

those guys aren't going to fix jittery carson palmer. get used to the over throws and bad passes and lock in on receivers version of Carson Palmer.
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[quote name='sois' post='610254' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:54 PM']those guys aren't going to fix jittery carson palmer. get used to the over throws and bad passes and lock in on receivers version of Carson Palmer.[/quote]

and a guard is going to fix that?

I think a running game and better defense will be much more beneficial to carson than overpaying to bring in a guard
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a guard more highly correlates with carsons jittery play than a better defense.
in fact, its probably a 100% correlation.

the defense doesn't have anything to do with carson's mechanics or timing or confidence. yes, i would love a better defense too, but we need to compare apples to apples here.
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[quote name='sois' post='610258' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:01 PM']a guard more highly correlates with carsons jittery play than a better defense.
in fact, its probably a 100% correlation.

the defense doesn't have anything to do with carson's mechanics or timing or confidence. yes, i would love a better defense too, but we need to compare apples to apples here.[/quote]

well a better defense, means there are less points being scored by the opposing offense, which means the D cant just drop 8 into a zone, which means it allows us to run the ball better, which means carson will have more time to throw, which means he wont have to lock on to recievers and force things

Also, it would be more money spent on the offensive side of the ball than spending it on the defensive side of the ball


really... signing an offensive lineman would be the WORST thing this team could do this offseason
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Or, we could ask Carson to be a professional and do his fucking job, and use that money more wisely.

Why do people want to coddle our QB and make every excuse for him? Fact is, is that elite QBs dont become terrible QBs because they dont have the greatest running game, or because the have been sacked (ONLY!!) 17 times. Come the fuck on.

Fans want to hand out responsibility as much as Marvin wants to accept it. Never.
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We will NEVER feild a competitive team if we always have to give Carson the best of every position. Ive never heard of a QB who needs so many peices of a puzzle to be perfect in order for him to succeed.

Maybe its time to face the facts:

Either:

1. Carson is fine and is having a bad year (happens) and will be back to the great QB we thought he was next year

or

2. Carson isnt who we thought he was.
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='610257' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:00 PM']and a guard is going to fix that?

I think a running game and better defense will be much more beneficial to carson than overpaying to bring in a guard[/quote]


If you look at the top guard's around the leauge you see that they have good running games, even Jamal Lewis is enjoying playing behind Stiney. I dont care for Whitworth as a Guard, I think he fits as a T much much better. But Faneca is going to be too expensive. (plus hes not that great of a pass blocker). I was worried about losing our ability to pull from the G position with Whitworth, as that was Rudi's favorite play, the "bread and butter" as he called it. Whitworth cant pull, he isnt athletic enough. Add in that Rudi has declined over the past two years, and you see why the running game is so bad. We need a pulling G, but we cant afford Faneca.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='610272' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:34 PM']If you look at the top guard's around the leauge you see that they have good running games, even Jamal Lewis is enjoying playing behind Stiney. I dont care for Whitworth as a Guard, I think he fits as a T much much better. But Faneca is going to be too expensive. (plus hes not that great of a pass blocker). I was worried about losing our ability to pull from the G position with Whitworth, as that was Rudi's favorite play, the "bread and butter" as he called it. Whitworth cant pull, he isnt athletic enough. Add in that Rudi has declined over the past two years, and you see why the running game is so bad. We need a pulling G, but we cant afford Faneca.[/quote]

or we can change our teams offensive play calling or scheme to match personal ... but we already know our "genious" doesn't like to do that...
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='610249' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:43 PM']If we sign Alex Faneca, I will give up being a Bengals fan

The last thing this team needs to do is go out and overpay an offensive lineman this offseason...

Resign Stacey and call it a day...

This might be the worst idea I've ever heard of[/quote]

While I'm not advocating signing Faneca, why do you think that keeping the same 5 we have now will lead to success? I'm not a stats-compiler like the other folks on here, but the 5 we have now we've had since the Jets game. What's our YPC in that game and all games since? How many points has our offense scored per game? How much time does Carson have to find a receiver?

Something is broken with the OL in 2007 (and to a degree, 2006), and "stick with what we got" doesn't seem like a formula to get different results.

-jd
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[quote name='doogles' post='610279' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:52 PM']While I'm not advocating signing Faneca, why do you think that keeping the same 5 we have now will lead to success? I'm not a stats-compiler like the other folks on here, but the 5 we have now we've had since the Jets game. What's our YPC in that game and all games since? How many points has our offense scored per game? How much time does Carson have to find a receiver?

Something is broken with the OL in 2007 (and to a degree, 2006), and "stick with what we got" doesn't seem like a formula to get different results.

-jd[/quote]

Well really we have 6 guys with one of the guys being a probowl RT whose been hurt all year...

If Willie can return to form next year, don't you have to believe our O-Line will be leaps and bounds better?

Not too mention an entire off season for Levi to heal and return to form plus throw in another offseason for Whit and Bluto to get better?


Again... spending more than lets say 2 mil to bring in any offensive lineman would be completely foolish
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='610280' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:57 PM']Well really we have 6 guys with one of the guys being a probowl RT whose been hurt all year...

If Willie can return to form next year, don't you have to believe our O-Line will be leaps and bounds better?

Not too mention an entire off season for Levi to heal and return to form plus throw in another offseason for Whit and Bluto to get better?


Again... spending more than lets say 2 mil to bring in any offensive lineman would be completely foolish[/quote]

Many believe Willie's career as starter to be over. Dude barely played this year at all, he had an entire offseason to recover and he never did. Now he's revealing (claiming?) he sustained a new & different injury. Can we really trust him to come back and be a Pro Bowl RT again? At his age?

Levi, I agree. Maybe the offseason will allow him to come back and play like we know he can.

Bluto, my problem here is that the "give him an offseason to get better!" line was the same one we were using before last year's draft. I think at this point I'm convinced he doesn't have what it takes.

Carson deserves a top-tier offensive line, in order to allow him to work his magic. If we hand him an average OL (or, given this year's performance, worse) I think we're doing him & this team a disservice.

-jd
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='610280' date='Dec 16 2007, 02:57 PM']Well really we have 6 guys with one of the guys being a probowl RT whose been hurt all year...

If Willie can return to form next year, don't you have to believe our O-Line will be leaps and bounds better?

Not too mention an entire off season for Levi to heal and return to form plus throw in another offseason for Whit and Bluto to get better?


Again... spending more than lets say 2 mil to bring in any offensive lineman would be completely foolish[/quote]
How much do you think the Bengals intend to spend of Andrews? You think he'll come cheap?
How much would the team save by letting Adrews walk if the money is unreasonable, cut Thornton's theiveing ass and let Rudi take a hike?
Willie isnt returning to his old form.. He jsut returning to OLD and collect paychecks
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[quote name='bubba' post='610293' date='Dec 16 2007, 03:32 PM']Sign Faneca and move him to center.[/quote]

i could live with that as long he is as good at center as he is at guard, but there are just too many other teams who need a guard more and will outbid us due to it being more of a need for him
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[quote name='sois' post='610254' date='Dec 16 2007, 01:54 PM']those guys aren't going to fix jittery carson palmer. get used to the over throws and bad passes and lock in on receivers version of Carson Palmer.[/quote]


fixing the o-line isn't going to fix jittery carson palmer either. The problem is mental for Palmer. You can put him behind a brick wall and he'll get jittery. The only thing that is going to fix it is for Palmer to continue to play behind the line, and for him to spend the offseason buried in game tape seeing the mistakes he made and the protection he actually WAS getting.
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[quote name='Bengals1181' post='610311' date='Dec 16 2007, 04:03 PM']fixing the o-line isn't going to fix jittery carson palmer either. The problem is mental for Palmer. You can put him behind a brick wall and he'll get jittery. The only thing that is going to fix it is for Palmer to continue to play behind the line, and for him to spend the offseason buried in game tape seeing the mistakes he made and the protection he actually WAS getting.[/quote]
makes sense to me....
Carson has a cannon... aside from that Im beginning to wonder about the rest of his game.
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