THE CHAD THREAD

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]Bengals do not need Johnson - commentary[/b][/size]


By CHRIS HUGHES
Georgetown News-Graphic
02/03/2008



Chad Johnson has not outgrown the Bengals.

The Bengals have outgrown Chad Johnson. And he knows it.

It's the only reason the attention-starved wide receiver ran the gamut of radio row before the Super Bowl this week in Phoenix and openly politicked for a ticket out of Cincinnati going anywhere.

"I'm going to be playing for your team next year," Johnson told a Boston reporter while he folded his hands together in prayer. Before a separate interview, he wrote on a note pad to Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, "Can I play in Seattle?"

Johnson went on Charlotte airwaves and pleaded for Panthers coach John Fox to "come get me," and desperately crowed to a Chicago radio station that he could turn beleaguered Bears quarterback Rex Grossman into a superstar.

"I've worked myself to the point where I make my quarterback look good regardless of what he does," Johnson said.

Yeah, right. Remember how good Johnson made Carson Palmer look this season in San Francisco when he couldn't handle a perfectly lobbed pass in the end zone that would have put the Bengals in position to tie the 49ers with less than three minutes to play in the fourth quarter?

Still, no one really disputes Johnson's talent. The four-time Pro Bowler is the only player to have led either conference in receiving yards four straight seasons. He is the team's all-time leader in receiving yards (8,365) and receptions (559).

And, almost as impressively, he seemed to single-handedly make Cincinnati once again relevant in the NFL.

The only time orange and black was seen on national TV from the mid-1990s to 2003 was in another team's highlight reel until Johnson made good on a guaranteed win against the undefeated Kansas City Chiefs.

His various end zone celebrations captivated fans - at least when it didn't warrant a 15-yard penalty. No. 85 preened for the cameras with his gold teeth and charmed audiences as he anointed himself "Ocho Cinco."

But the more one-liners the receiver uttered, the more evident it became he didn't truly understand the language - he has no substance.

Behavior considered cute early in life rarely appeals later in the maturation process. Johnson's song and dance simply wore thin as his me-first attitude became prevalent.

Chad is only about winning if Chad can make the team a winner. He's a lot like the kid in seventh grade that would rather be a star on the "B" team as opposed to a role player on the stack team.

It's no surprise the team-oriented Patriots are once again in the Super Bowl, and no wonder the Giants found success minus the divisive locker room presence of Tiki Barber and Jeremy Shockey.

The Bengals do not need Johnson to be relevant with one of the league's elite quarterbacks in the fold. Mike Brown needs to build his team around Palmer, and cast off the loud-mouthed receiver for a bounty of draft picks.

Or, if Johnson's recent antics have killed his trade value, keep his rights and shut him down. Don't let him sniff the field. Perhaps an example needs to be made to prevent the next Johnson or Corey Dillon or Carl Pickens or whomever.

Either way, Johnson should never suit up in stripes again. And the Bengals will be better off because of it.

Adios, Ocho Cinco.

[i]Chris Hughes is the News-Graphic's sports editor and can be reached by e-mail at sports@news-graphic.com.[/i][/quote]





[url="http://www.georgetownnews.com/articles/2008/02/03/sports/sports03.txt"]http://www.georgetownnews.com/articles/200...ts/sports03.txt[/url]

[thejungle05]

As much as It kills me to say it, this writer is correct. I love Chad, but the Bengals have outgrown him. He put us back on the map. He was our superstar, or well our atention whore. I love Chad again, i am not a Chad basher. But the question I act myself is, does keeping Chad make us better? I don't think so, it keeps us the same. Does losing Chad make us better? My gut instinct says yes. Everyone says look at the patriots, they won 3 superbowls without a outstanding WR, if Brady can my receivers look awesome, so can Palmer. Give Palmer another speedy tall receiver like Henry, find him in rounds 4-6 and watch as Palmer still throws for 4,000 yards, but with more touchdowns. Would I like to see Chad stay and retire a Bengal, Hell Yes! I think that would be awesome, and I think that with time he will grow up and stop [u][/u]some[u][/u] of his antics. But can we win without Chad? I think yes, because of Carson.


However, Next season is next season, and if Chad is still a Bengal, I think he has another outstanding year. I think he will drop less balls, but still have the same amout of catches within the same amount of yards.

WHO-DEY

[|Harley|]

The Bengals, team of amazing talent and depth, countless post season victories and highly regarded organization has outgrown CJ?!?!? Sounds like short-term memory to me. Yeah, get rid of Chad and we'll watch TJ's production fall off the table and Palmer pleading for another receiver of CJ's caliber.

I don't like CJ's behavior but to say the Bengals have outgrown him is laughable.

[Arkansas Bengal]

[quote name='thejungle05' post='629568' date='Feb 3 2008, 12:31 PM']As much as It kills me to say it, this writer is correct. I love Chad, but the Bengals have outgrown him. He put us back on the map. He was our superstar, or well our atention whore. I love Chad again, i am not a Chad basher. But the question I act myself is, does keeping Chad make us better? I don't think so, it keeps us the same. Does losing Chad make us better? My gut instinct says yes. Everyone says look at the patriots, they won 3 superbowls without a outstanding WR, if Brady can my receivers look awesome, so can Palmer. Give Palmer another speedy tall receiver like Henry, find him in rounds 4-6 and watch as Palmer still throws for 4,000 yards, but with more touchdowns. Would I like to see Chad stay and retire a Bengal, Hell Yes! I think that would be awesome, and I think that with time he will grow up and stop some of his antics. But can we win without Chad? I think yes, because of Carson.


However, Next season is next season, and if Chad is still a Bengal, I think he has another outstanding year. I think he will drop less balls, but still have the same amout of catches within the same amount of yards.

WHO-DEY[/quote]

Without Chad Johnson, let's see who we have left:

1) TJ is just another average receiver who will contantly be double teamed and will never approach the numbers he achieved this season.
2) Henry is one joint away from being permanetly suspended.
3) Tab Perry - will likely never be a factor between his injuries and his iron hands.
4) Holt - too many fumbles and has a hard time getting opened.
5) Antonio Chapman - see Tab Perry (plus he is an unrestricted free agent)
6) Marcus Maxwell - who the fuck is he?

and as far as Tight Ends:

1) Reggie Kelly - great blocker; mediocre receiver
2) Coates - shows some promise; could actually be a factor in the passing game in 2008
3) Nate Lawre - who knows?

For those of you that think we'll fine if Chad leaves, think back to last year when Henry was out. The passing game suffered because we only had 2 viable receiving threats. If Chad leaves, the situation will be MUCH worse because we will have no one to take the heat off TJ. Even if we sign a free agent or get a top receiver in the draft, it will take time for them to be in synch with Palmer.

Bottom Line - if Chad leaves, it will be a LOSE - LOSE situation.

[scharm]

I'm not against trading Chad Johnson. I think it's a good idea (assuming they'll get equal value) I am against ignorance.

Trading Chad will leave them with a huge hole to fill. This destroying the lockeroom is all well and good for radio, but doesn't mean shit once the ball is kicked off.

You make up for Chad by improving the running game. Finding a pass catching TE. Converting 3rd downs. Everything this offense struggled with even with Chad drawing the attention of the opposing safeties just about every game. Good luck Brat!

[Captain Awesome]

A divided locker room does make a difference and playing for yourself and not your team also shows on the field. As people have already stated there is no denying Chad Johnson's talent, but you must weigh how much he brings to the field against how much he may cost the team with his selfish actions (15 yard penalties, unwillingness to block, not running proper routes, the cry baby antics that are dividing the team because he is not a true professional, etc.....)

If Chad were to be sit or be traded there would be a drop off in TJ's production, but there would be a rise in the production of other players as well. Hopefully Chris Henry has finally learned his lesson, and while he may not have been up to his old form this past year but you have to consider his not working out with the team for how long, not playing, not working out with Carson everyday, etc..... there are factors that led to his drop in performance. Chris Henry is talented as well, but his maturity is the question surrounding him.

Another area that production will be expected to be increased from are the running backs, both in the running game as well as catching the ball out of the backfield. Hopefully Chris Perry can get healthy and stay healthy, because when he was, he was a pass catching threat out of the backfield.

I'm not so much worried about a pass catching TE because Daniel Coats did look like he was able to not only catch the ball but also hold onto it after getting hit. But if Chad goes a pass catching TE might be a safety valve the coaching staff would want for Carson, and in the Free Agency market you can look for Ben Troupe or LJ Smith.

As far as going out and getting a veteran WR in Free Agency I would try to bring in Bryant Johnson from Arizona. He has been over shadowed by Boldin and Fitzgerald, but he still seemed to be able to be proeductive when given the chance. The same can be true for Andre Davis from the Texans, when Andre Johnson was hurt Davis stepped in and had a couple of good games.

So the solution for Chad's absence (if it goes that far) would be to simply spread the ball out more and make use of a variety of targets instead of focusing on just one stud WR.

Then of course we would have to draft a WR on the first day to replace Chad, maybe taking one in the 2nd if he slipped, but there is life after Ocho Cinco and the Bengals are bigger than just one player.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='scharm' post='629634' date='Feb 3 2008, 03:04 PM']I'm not against trading Chad Johnson. I think it's a good idea (assuming they'll get equal value) I am against ignorance.

Trading Chad will leave them with a huge hole to fill. This destroying the lockeroom is all well and good for radio, but doesn't mean shit once the ball is kicked off.

You make up for Chad by improving the running game. Finding a pass catching TE. Converting 3rd downs. Everything this offense struggled with even with Chad drawing the attention of the opposing safeties just about every game. Good luck Brat![/quote]


I'm not against it if they plan on re-focusing the offense (i.e. solidifying the running game, and getting a receiving threat at TE). Getting rid of chad and just replacing him with Henry won't cut it. Trading chad means a change in offensive philosphy. Also, it would require the defense to be solidified completely.

[Oldcat]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='629814' date='Feb 3 2008, 07:47 PM']I'm not against it if they plan on re-focusing the offense (i.e. solidifying the running game, and getting a receiving threat at TE). Getting rid of chad and just replacing him with Henry won't cut it. Trading chad means a change in offensive philosphy. Also, it would require the defense to be solidified completely.[/quote]

Except getting rid of chad means that this year we have to draft recievers in case both him and TJ go.
So this would cut into improving the defense considerably

[Bengal Chris]

Chads not leaving and we all know that. Trust me we will see great results from him next year. He will want to prove he is part of the team and all of this will just be a faint memory.

[CO Bengal]

Unfortunately, we can't afford to take the salary cap hit. I would totally be up for shipping Chad out for a good value trade. Let him list some other terrible team out of the gutter and then try to tear them back down. Trade Chad? I wish we could. I'd be happy to take one step back in order to take three steps forwad.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Harley' post='629571' date='Feb 3 2008, 12:42 PM']The Bengals, team of amazing talent and depth, countless post season victories and highly regarded organization has outgrown CJ?!?!? Sounds like short-term memory to me. Yeah, get rid of Chad and we'll watch TJ's production fall off the table and Palmer pleading for another receiver of CJ's caliber.

I don't like CJ's behavior but to say the Bengals have outgrown him is laughable.[/quote]


your right, watching him give up mid season and single handedly kill anything the team attempted to do is a much better option. the fumble holding the ball with one hand, the dropped passes, the SHIT routes.. the guy is a pain in the ass and no good can come of him staying. i was hopefull it was all a ploy and media hype. seems incorrect, chad isnt irreplaceable. and he IS an asshole.

what magic plan do YOU have?

[-GoBengals-]

Since it seems i was wrong (i know, its crazy, but it happens, lets all just move past it) and Ocho Fuck owants a ticket to anywhere... i see two possibilities here...


1. let him rot, spend some cap this year to save it upon his release or trade next year

2. deal him with a good enough trade to benefit us, and perhaps stick him with a shit team in the process.



that brings up the questions for each scenario.



1. will he sit? he doesn't get paid if he doesnt show, we fine him his paychecks for lack of practice and playing, so he makes no money, and lets be honest, degree, godaddy, and fox garbage time shows are about all the commercials he can get, and without stats and a weekly agenda, he isn't even going to get those. I dont think the guy can manage to allow his own stats to vanish, and his camera time deminish, cause frankly, he isnt TO, and not even ESPN will gobble this shit up for more than time filler, a press oncference with drew in front of chads miami home isnt going to air. he hurts no one but himself, his value is almost at rock bottom right this second, he is showing the cancer he is and teams see it, if one thinks they came make him randy moss, go for it, but if randy moss is playing for the 1-15 dolphins, i dont see him smiling so much...

2. trading him, i can imagine getting less than a 1st and 3rd for him, a 1st and 2nd would be ideal. especially with a semi weak WR class in the draft, a team in great need might bite.. and god knows we can use the picks. a young WR, henry, tj, holt, could get us by, but frankly, with a sitting crying chad or a chad cap hit, the year is cashed in as a "lets see how it goes" year anyway.

with NO linebackers, a lame chad, and a grass stained palmer we were 3-4 PLAYS away from being in a playoff hunt. and hell chad was a part of several of those plays. but going into 2009, we have a handful of cap space, and some extra picks who developed in 2008. and can grab another young WR if we dont find a gem in the 2008 draft. chad was a 2nd round pick, so spending an extra first or second could yeild similar results.. and frankly., we have a great QB...

both situations suck, but only one of them still sucks a year from now..


i say put him on the block to shit team like the bills, dolphins, etc.. and no way the dolphins give the 1st overall pick. but the bills or tampa or someone might bite.. and give us a late round 1st and a late 2nd or a third for him...

chad isnt a marvin pick and obviously not a marvin guy... there arent many of those types still around.




thoughts and ideas?

[Oldcat]

I think we should fix the holes we have in the team before blowing us a new one.

We have holes and D line, LB, possibly nickel corner and safety. and an unsure situation at RB and OL due to injuries.
Our #2 may walk after the next year, and after that we got nothing.

When we traded Dillon we had put up with it for years, and had a replacement who was outplaying him right then.
And we got what, a second?

The only way it should even be considered is if we got a current player, of similar level of play, to plug another hole. Any draft
pick could play as often as Chris Perry has, or be a bust. Some big, pro-bowl DE/DT? maybe then.

I don't think Chad has the character to sit out while others are playing. I don't think once he stops being the NFL's class clown
he will get much publicity, either. Certainly not positive publicity. And we've already seen how well he reacts to the slightest negative
press.

But if I'm the Bengals, Id rather make him sit and take the lumps for the good of the league then let someone rape us for a 4th
rounder like the damn Pats did Oakland. If we can't enforce contracts, any player good enough will jump teams and we will never
be able to build a team. And if Goodell wasnt in the Patriots payroll, he would have nixed the trade, or forced it to be something at least
somewhat equitable.

[Tigris]

so he DEFINITELY wants to leave? i know he's been pulling this no straight answer bull shit for a while... but has he really said "hey, i want outta here" yet?

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Oldcat' post='629851' date='Feb 4 2008, 12:42 AM']I think we should fix the holes we have in the team before blowing us a new one.

We have holes and D line, LB, possibly nickel corner and safety. and an unsure situation at RB and OL due to injuries.
Our #2 may walk after the next year, and after that we got nothing.

When we traded Dillon we had put up with it for years, and had a replacement who was outplaying him right then.
And we got what, a second?

The only way it should even be considered is if we got a current player, of similar level of play, to plug another hole. Any draft
pick could play as often as Chris Perry has, or be a bust. Some big, pro-bowl DE/DT? maybe then.

I don't think Chad has the character to sit out while others are playing. I don't think once he stops being the NFL's class clown
he will get much publicity, either. Certainly not positive publicity. And we've already seen how well he reacts to the slightest negative
press.

But if I'm the Bengals, Id rather make him sit and take the lumps for the good of the league then let someone rape us for a 4th
rounder like the damn Pats did Oakland. If we can't enforce contracts, any player good enough will jump teams and we will never
be able to build a team. And if Goodell wasnt in the Patriots payroll, he would have nixed the trade, or forced it to be something at least
somewhat equitable.[/quote]


did you watch him play last year? he IS a hole in this team? but not only is he a hole ON the field, but it seems off the field as well. if we can keep one hole and close two others with extra top end picks, it seems smart. and it would close the off field hole. so it kinda fixes 3 of 4 holes... im all for letting him rot IF we get no good offers, im not willing to ship him off for a 4th rounder either.. i thought i made that clear in the options above... he is a good player, but an asshole, i doubt we get SUPER PRICE stock for him, but NO WAY do we take it in the rear again like we did with dillon...

[quote name='Tigris' post='629852' date='Feb 4 2008, 12:49 AM']so he DEFINITELY wants to leave? i know he's been pulling this no straight answer bull shit for a while... but has he really said "hey, i want outta here" yet?[/quote]
seems that way... i dont think he can come straight out and say it without being in team trouble/fines/etc...

[dustmck]

Mike Brown has to decide between

1) the squeaky wheel getting greased

2) the nail sticking out the most getting hammered

-Decision-

Does it send a positive or negative message?

Does it show weakness or strength?

Are you uniting the locker room or giving power to other whiners?

Will the players/picks we get as compensation outweigh the value of Chad and/or negative cap hit?


Fuck it, I say let him sit. Maybe our team gets better, maybe worse. But another team does not get better and you send a message(a good one i believe), and save money which is something Brown likes to do anyway

[|Elflocko|]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='629854' date='Feb 4 2008, 01:54 AM']did you watch him play last year? he IS a hole in this team? but not only is he a hole ON the field, but it seems off the field as well. if we can keep one hole and close two others with extra top end picks, it seems smart. and it would close the off field hole. so it kinda fixes 3 of 4 holes... im all for letting him rot IF we get no good offers, im not willing to ship him off for a 4th rounder either.. i thought i made that clear in the options above... he is a good player, but an asshole, i doubt we get SUPER PRICE stock for him, but NO WAY do we take it in the rear again like we did with dillon...


[b]seems that way... i dont think he can come straight out and say it without being in team trouble/fines/etc..[/b].[/quote]


Damn.


Looks like I'm going to have to take a dump in my CJ jersey and mail it to him....

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='Elflocko' post='629856' date='Feb 3 2008, 11:02 PM']Damn.


Looks like I'm going to have to take a dump in my CJ jersey and mail it to him....[/quote]

Thats what I was thinking as well. Fuck....only authentic jersey I have and that is only cause I got that great Eastbay deal last year.

[Tigris]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='629854' date='Feb 4 2008, 12:54 AM']did you watch him play last year? he IS a hole in this team? but not only is he a hole ON the field, but it seems off the field as well. if we can keep one hole and close two others with extra top end picks, it seems smart. and it would close the off field hole. so it kinda fixes 3 of 4 holes... im all for letting him rot IF we get no good offers, im not willing to ship him off for a 4th rounder either.. i thought i made that clear in the options above... he is a good player, but an asshole, i doubt we get SUPER PRICE stock for him, but NO WAY do we take it in the rear again like we did with dillon...


seems that way... i dont think he can come straight out and say it without being in team trouble/fines/etc...[/quote]

How would he get fined? TO said he wanted out, didn't he? Moss said he wanted out... Dillon did the same.

I don't think he can actually get in any "team trouble" either for saying he wants to leave... doghouse maybe, but I don't really think he could "get in trouble".

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigris' post='629864' date='Feb 4 2008, 01:52 AM']How would he get fined? TO said he wanted out, didn't he? Moss said he wanted out... Dillon did the same.

I don't think he can actually get in any "team trouble" either for saying he wants to leave... doghouse maybe, but I don't really think he could "get in trouble".[/quote]


TO was suspended and sent home from practice/camp. and fined i think...


something like that...

[Tigris]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='629865' date='Feb 4 2008, 02:06 AM']TO was suspended and sent home from practice/camp. and fined i think...


something like that...[/quote]

so basically you're trying to recall something you cant quite remember?



fuck, it's obvious neither of us is going to look it up. im going to sleep.

[-GoBengals-]

[quote name='Tigris' post='629867' date='Feb 4 2008, 02:16 AM']so basically you're trying to recall something you cant quite remember?



fuck, it's obvious neither of us is going to look it up. im going to sleep.[/quote]


im pretty sure its why they held a press conference outside his house, instead of some sort of football setting...


[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2214754"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=2214754[/url]

[quote]Terrell Owens was suspended by the Philadelphia Eagles on Saturday for conduct detrimental to the team, a catch-all sanction that team officials imposed after deliberating much of Friday over how to address the latest flap involving their loquacious wide receiver.

Owens, who blasted the organization on Thursday for not publicly recognizing his 100th career touchdown catch two weeks ago, will miss the Eagles' key Sunday night game against the Washington Redskins.

It is uncertain when -- or if -- he will return to the team.

Under terms of the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, a player can be suspended for a maximum of four games for conduct detrimental to his team. It remained unclear if the Eagles have fined Owens; a team source declined to address any financial element of the disciplinary action. A fine would cost Owens $191,176 for every game he misses, based on his salary of $3.25 million for this season.

It is not certain if Owens, who was suspended for a week during training camp, will appeal the latest sanction by Eagles officials. Agent Drew Rosenhaus did not immediately return messages Saturday afternoon.[/quote]

[Tigris]

[quote name='GoBengals' post='629869' date='Feb 4 2008, 02:34 AM']im pretty sure its why they held a press conference outside his house, instead of some sort of football setting...


[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2214754"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=2214754[/url][/quote]
ahhh, i see. cool.

i wonder how far chad has to go for it to be considered "detrimental"... this is going to be a fun offseason

[MULLY]

I don't see them benching Chad if he stays. Marvin would have to be a complete fucking moron to bench the guy that gave us 1400 yards this season and led the league in yards the previous 4. Even for disciplinary reasons I don't see it happening. I also don't see a trade coming. Mike Brown has stated, through Marvin I believe, that Chad isn't going to be traded.

Now, as for this latest ESPN article about a source giving them something. I find it funny that when the original trade talk came up back during the season, it came from ESPN mind you, they later retracted what they said and admitted they didn't have anything like that. Now they have "a source" and everyone is taking it as gospel.....knowing they made up that earlier shit. I don't know where I heard it but someone said "believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see." ESPN can write whatever the fuck they want using the "a source told us...." line. Personally, that source can suck on my nuts. I think Chad was airing some frustrations as best as he could without getting in trouble and probably three fourths of it was in jest. He's a total fuck around so why does anyone put any weight into this shit? I also think his hinting at wanting to move was keeping him in the public eye. Which we all know is something that he loves. He can turn right around at any second and say straight to Marvin's face "I didn't say I wanted to be traded. I was just horsing around giving them sound bytes."
MULLY

[scharm]

[quote name='Bengals1181' post='629814' date='Feb 3 2008, 10:47 PM']I'm not against it if they plan on re-focusing the offense (i.e. solidifying the running game, and getting a receiving threat at TE). Getting rid of chad and just replacing him with Henry won't cut it. Trading chad means a change in offensive philosphy. Also, it would require the defense to be solidified completely.[/quote]

Yep, I agree. Probalbly need to do that even if Chad lines up for them next year. Clearly this on paper unstoppable offense isn't translating that way on the field.