[eva4ben-gal]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 12:49 PM, said:

OL would look something like this...

LT whitworth, collins
LG mathis, livings
C cook, luigs
RG bobbie williams, anderson
RT smith, anderson, roland

it could work.

Willie is sitting on the side lines right now for a reason. If anybody in the league thought he could still play he would be getting contract offers or at least some interest. As far as I can tell no team has the slightest bit of interest in his old busted ass. The only way Willie gets a deal this year is if a team's starter goes down in camp and the only replacement is a rookie or a guy with no NFL snaps.
Willie was one of my favorites when he was here but he's shown his true colors and the team owes him nothing.
Willie is asking for a "mentor" role for christ sake. If that's not sign enough that the guy knows he can't even be counted on to spot start then I don't know what is.

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

Fuck Willie... He gave us some excellent years of play.. But in the end he left over being asshurt over a more than reasonable pay cut and went to a division rival for the same amount of money, then proceeded to trash the team on the internetz.

It's not that I hate him, I just feel like he burned the bridge on his way out of town, and now he is even older than he was when he couldn't really pull the load anymore. Whatever desire I had to see him "retire a Bengal" went out the door with his actions leaving town, which TBH, is the only reason I could see to bring him back.

that's an option...to take the hardheaded, bullheaded, kiss my ass, approach.

then another option would be let bygones be bygones, drop some pride, be professional and work through past differences in the hopes of everyone achieving the same goal.

IF that goal is more important than a chapped ass, that is.

obviously, there's two different ways of looking at it.

[Lucid]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 12:56 PM, said:

that's an option...to take the hardheaded, bullheaded, kiss my ass, approach.

then another option would be let bygones be bygones, drop some pride, be professional and work through past differences in the hopes of everyone achieving the same goal.

IF that goal is more important than a chapped ass, that is.

obviously, there's two different ways of looking at it.

Like I said.. It's not about a "chapped ass". I don't think what he has to contribute would compensate for the roster spot. We would have to cut somebody to bring Willie in.

If he had left with more class, sentimentality would push me to call for bringing him back to "Retire a Bengal".. However, I don't have that sentiment anymore.

As you can see, the latter is the "emotional response". With the way Willie left, all I have is cold logic.

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 12:48 PM, said:

Fuck Willie... He gave us some excellent years of play.. But in the end he left over being asshurt over a more than reasonable pay cut and went to a division rival for the same amount of money, then proceeded to trash the team on the internetz.

It's not that I hate him, I just feel like he burned the bridge on his way out of town, and now he is even older than he was when he couldn't really pull the load anymore. Whatever desire I had to see him "retire a Bengal" went out the door with his actions leaving town, which TBH, is the only reason I could see to bring him back.

hmm, sort of sounds like you are harboring some hate for the guy. yes, he's a year older, but as he says, he's had a year to heal up. bring him in for a tryout and see what's in the tank. alexander's eyes wouldn't lie to him. that is, if you can get beyond the hurt pride thing.

[JC]

You really want Willie strolling out onto the field with his walker every possession? He is done. There's a reason no one is calling. Not even the Steelers who are SOL at right tackle.

[Lucid]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

hmm, sort of sounds like you are harboring some hate for the guy. yes, he's a year older, but as he says, he's had a year to heal up. bring him in for a tryout and see what's in the tank. alexander's eyes wouldn't lie to him. that is, if you can get beyond the hurt pride thing.

It has absolutely nothing to do with hate.. Not at all. If I met him in a bar I would buy him a drink and talk about old times. It's about not having "love" for him enough to see him retire here.

Who would you cut to bring in Willie?

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:00 PM, said:

Like I said.. It's not about a "chapped ass". I don't think what he has to contribute would compensate for the roster spot. We would have to cut somebody to bring Willie in.

If he had left with more class, sentimentality would push me to call for bringing him back to "Retire a Bengal".. However, I don't have that sentiment anymore.

As you can see, the latter is the "emotional response". With the way Willie left, all I have is cold logic.

my point is that i'm trying to leave sentiment out of the equation. i'd hate to see a repeat of what we had on the right side last year. if we have to use an extra man over there, that negates everything we attempted to accomplish with the extra wide receivers. i can't see shitcanning that over a chapped ass.

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:05 PM, said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with hate.. Not at all. If I met him in a bar I would buy him a drink and talk about old times. It's about not having "love" for him enough to see him retire here.

Who would you cut to bring in Willie?

i listed an OL depth chart. otis, who's a project and won't play anyway, goes to practice squad and we keep 10 OL.

LT whitworth, collins
LG mathis, livings
C cook, luigs
RG bobbie williams, anderson
RT smith, anderson, roland

[Lucid]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

my point is that i'm trying to leave sentiment out of the equation. i'd hate to see a repeat of what we had on the right side last year. if we have to use an extra man over there, that negates everything we attempted to accomplish with the extra wide receivers. i can't see shitcanning that over a chapped ass.

That is exactly my point.. Because of the way Willie left, there IS no emotion in my POV.. If he had left in a better way, I would be pulled to perhaps sacrifice some depth or fringe player just to see him retire and to give him a chance at a SB ring with the Bengals.

However, I don;t feel that way anymore.. The only reason to bring him back is because he would make the team better and I don't see that.

Again, who would you cut to bring him in?

[eva4ben-gal]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:07 PM, said:

my point is that i'm trying to leave sentiment out of the equation. i'd hate to see a repeat of what we had on the right side last year. if we have to use an extra man over there, that negates everything we attempted to accomplish with the extra wide receivers. i can't see shitcanning that over a chapped ass.

The extra man had as much to do with not having a decent TE as it did with having a less than stellar starter at RT.
If Gresham starts hitting the seams for big gains teams will back off on the blitzes and Carson will have plenty of time to throw. Football is a tricky sport because the outcome of any given play depends on the actions of every man on the field, not just the one you see on TV at home.

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:09 PM, said:

The only reason to bring him back is because he would make the team better and I don't see that.

which is why i brought the subject up. so then, you wouldn't be against paul alexander taking a look at him, then making a determination from there?

[Lucid]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:14 PM, said:

which is why i brought the subject up. so then, you wouldn't be against paul alexander taking a look at him, then making a determination from there?

Of course.

Now can tell me who you would cut to bring him in?

[bengaled]

eva4ben-gal, on 29 July 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:

The extra man had as much to do with not having a decent TE as it did with having a less than stellar starter at RT.
If Gresham starts hitting the seams for big gains teams will back off on the blitzes and Carson will have plenty of time to throw. Football is a tricky sport because the outcome of any given play depends on the actions of every man on the field, not just the one you see on TV at home.

i see. thanks for the lesson.

oh, BTW, did you happen to see any breakdowns at the rt position last year in pass protection. i could use all the help i could get from ya. i'm still learning this stuff.

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:15 PM, said:

Of course.

Now can tell me who you would cut to bring him in?

ok, i'll try for the third time, now.

LT whitworth, collins
LG mathis, livings
C cook, luigs
RG williams, anderson
RT smith, anderson, roland

otis, who's a project and won't see any time anyway, to the practice squad.

[JC]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:15 PM, said:

Of course.

Now can tell me who you would cut to bring him in?

Shoot..i forget his name. The guy that always leads the Bengals out onto the field. Well just let them both be co-rally guys. Except Willie might need one of those motorized scooters to lead them out.

[Lucid]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:20 PM, said:

ok, i'll try for the third time, now.

LT whitworth, collins
LG mathis, livings
C cook, luigs
RG williams, anderson
RT smith, anderson, roland

otis, who's a project and won't see any time anyway, to the practice squad.

I don't think Otis makes the final roster with or without Willie, unless Luigs hip is worse than we know.

[bengaled]

JC, on 29 July 2010 - 01:20 PM, said:

Shoot..i forget his name. The guy that always leads the Bengals out onto the field. Well just let them both be co-rally guys. Except Willie might need one of those motorized scooters to lead them out.

:lol:

[bengaled]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

I don't think Otis makes the final roster with or without Willie, unless Luigs hip is worse than we know.

we'll see. there's many things to work through before we take unit numbers into consideration, but with smith having a banged up wheel, i feel we'll need more than roland. collins gets manhandled at RT and i shudder to think of him there again. that project failed so horribly it was embarrassing. depending on how bad andre's deal is, we might need another body thereand an upgrade over roland wouldn't offend me... tho the guy is a roadgrader in the run game.


grass to cut, chat later.

[Bengals1181]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:20 PM, said:

ok, i'll try for the third time, now.

LT whitworth, collins
LG mathis, livings
C cook, luigs
RG williams, anderson
RT smith, anderson, roland

otis, who's a project and won't see any time anyway, to the practice squad.

we don't typically keep 10 olinemen, though I wouldn't hate it.

Also, I don't know that you take a 35yr old player with an injury history and try and teach him to back up a new position that late in his career.

[kdubdub]

Might as well bring him in for the comp. If most of the bengals fans can forgive 85 after the way he scorched the earth a few years ago then I think Willie will be ok.

[oldschooler]

The Scales, on 29 July 2010 - 12:45 PM, said:

They Resigned Bobby. Thats a move.

They drafted Otis. Thats a move.

They were really Hoping everything would be fine with Andre . . . Even no move is a move.

They addressed the line.

They re-signed a Starter and drafted depth.

They made no moves to replace starters.

And no move is standing pat. Not moving.

[eva4ben-gal]

bengaled, on 29 July 2010 - 01:17 PM, said:

i see. thanks for the lesson.

oh, BTW, did you happen to see any breakdowns at the rt position last year in pass protection. i could use all the help i could get from ya. i'm still learning this stuff.

Apparently you need to attend Marvin's Football 101 class with the ladies.
They probably have a question and answer portion where you could have Marvin explain that the reason the Bengals haven't upgraded over Roland is because there is nobody out there available that is better.
Do you really think that if somebody was sitting on the free agent market right now that was an upgrade over Roland, the Bengals wouldn't sign him? The just signed TO for cryin out loud.
I think it's obvious the team is looking for upgrades anywhere they can get them this offseason and if they didn't bite on any of the RT's out there already, they sure as hell ain't gonna give Willie a sniff.

[oldschooler]

JC, on 29 July 2010 - 01:20 PM, said:

Shoot..i forget his name. The guy that always leads the Bengals out onto the field. Well just let them both be co-rally guys. Except Willie might need one of those motorized scooters to lead them out.

His names is Jimmy Brown. But everyone calls him JB.

[Jamie_B]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

They re-signed a Starter and drafted depth.

They made no moves no replace starters.

And no move is standing pat. Not moving.

Iupati was #3 on their draft board behind Gresham and Bryant.

[Lucid]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

They re-signed a Starter and drafted depth.

They made no moves to replace starters.

And no move is standing pat. Not moving.

Are you saying coaches were counting on having the same starting RT's as last season?

I think you got what he was trying to say there. Why be obtuse?

[oldschooler]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 01:53 PM, said:

Are you saying coaches were counting on having the same starting RT's as last season?

I think you got what he was trying to say there. Why be obtuse?

Obtuse? lol

Didn't Andre start a game last season?
And play in 6 games? Why yes, yes he did.

My whole point of saying they made no moves was to address the
fact that the Bengals think the main problem with the passing game
was the skill position players.

Would Andre Smith help? Well, he should. That is why they drafted him
with the #6 overall pick. But they brought in 3 FA WRs, drafted 2 more
and drafted a 1st round TE. They added depth to the O-line. with late
round picks. Which do you think the Organization thinks was the problem?

[scharm]

I would luv a return of willie, but I think they have depth there.

They have starters as back ups,imo. Not high level but serviceable.

Only if the real PUP list happens that's when I consider big willie.

[JC]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 01:51 PM, said:

His names is Jimmy Brown. But everyone calls him JB.

Can't believe I forgot that. Thanks. Wanted to call him James. Anyways..what a good dude. Been loyal to this team through thick and thin and never bitches. Willie could actually learn something from him if he hopped on board. This might actually work out after all. Bet JB wouldn't give his tricks of getting the team out onto the field in such a professional manner if he was canned.

[bengaled]

Bengals1181, on 29 July 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

we don't typically keep 10 olinemen, though I wouldn't hate it.

Also, I don't knou take a 35yr old player with an injury history and try and teach him to back up a new position that late in his career.

we have kept 10, tho. if andre has something significant, we'll have to account for it some way or another. i really don't think willie would have to stay up late at night learning the RG position, do you?

[bengaled]

eva4ben-gal, on 29 July 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

Apparently you need to attend Marvin's Football 101 class with the ladies.
They probably have a question and answer portion where you could have Marvin explain that the reason the Bengals haven't upgraded over Roland is because there is nobody out there available that is better.
Do you really think that if somebody was sitting on the free agent market right now that was an upgrade over Roland, the Bengals wouldn't sign him? The just signed TO for cryin out loud.
I think it's obvious the team is looking for upgrades anywhere they can get them this offseason and if they didn't bite on any of the RT's out there already, they sure as hell ain't gonna give Willie a sniff.

that's a helluva shot from someone named eva. you got a hair up your ass today?

[Tigers Johnson]

I am starting to get a sinking feeling that Andre Smith is never going to be right....

[Bunghole]

kdubdub, on 29 July 2010 - 01:47 PM, said:

Might as well bring him in for the comp. If most of the bengals fans can forgive 85 after the way he scorched the earth a few years ago then I think Willie will be ok.

Why is Terrell Owens running around with a bomb in your avatar?

[The Scales]

Tigers Johnson, on 29 July 2010 - 02:25 PM, said:

I am starting to get a sinking feeling that Andre Smith is never going to be right....

No! Don't say that.



He just needs to eat his vitamins, his fruits, his veg, and his greens along with the Jelly donuts, 14 pizzas, and gallons of sugar cola.

[Lucid]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 02:02 PM, said:

Obtuse? lol

Didn't Andre start a game last season?
And play in 6 games? Why yes, yes he did.

My whole point of saying they made no moves was to address the
fact that the Bengals think the main problem with the passing game
was the skill position players.

Would Andre Smith help? Well, he should. That is why they drafted him
with the #6 overall pick. But they brought in 3 FA WRs, drafted 2 more
and drafted a 1st round TE. They added depth to the O-line. with late
round picks. Which do you think the Organization thinks was the problem?

I think they believe it was multiple reasons. I know that Marvin and Bob have stated in interviews that we were strong in the running game and not so in pass protection (as far as OL goes).

But your statement that the line will be unchanged isn't exactly true either. I think the coaches were counting on upgrading the RT position from last year by inserting Smith as the starter.. I think they also believed that the Center position would perform better from experience and that they could hope for either Mathis/Livings to step up their game at LG.

Just because they expect the line to be better this year, and felt they had the talent in house to achieve that mark, does not mean they were happy with the overall performance last season.

I would rate the line last season as slightly above average in the running game and slightly below average in pass protection. I think the YPC average that Cedric produced was not indicative of both outstanding run blocking AND outstanding talent at RB.. One of those has to be off.. I am going with the blocking as something that we should hope improves.

I don't want to argue about it because I think overall we agree.. I just don't think if you told the coaches we would have a repeat performance by the oline from last season that they would feel great about that.

[oldschooler]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 02:37 PM, said:

I think they believe it was multiple reasons. I know that Marvin and Bob have stated in interviews that we were strong in the running game and not so in pass protection (as far as OL goes).

But your statement that the line will be unchanged isn't exactly true either. I think the coaches were counting on upgrading the RT position from last year by inserting Smith as the starter.. I think they also believed that the Center position would perform better from experience and that they could hope for either Mathis/Livings to step up their game at LG.

Just because they expect the line to be better this year, and felt they had the talent in house to achieve that mark, does not mean they were happy with the overall performance last season.

They said "early on" as far as not being strong in the pass protection.
Which should be understandable.


I would think they expected to upgrade the RT position last season by drafting Smith.

It is unchanged as far as personnel. Talk about being obtuse?

It was said that the O-line "sucked ass" last season.
I pointed out that that "suck ass" O-line is basically in tact.
And that the Bengals focused on restocking the skill positions.
So of course that means that they think the O-line should be better
with another year under their belts. And the skill positions needed
an overhaul. It's that simple.

[Lucid]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 02:47 PM, said:

They said "early on" as far as not being strong in the pass protection.
Which should be understandable.


I would think they expected to upgrade the RT position last season by drafting Smith.

It is unchanged as far as personnel. Talk about being obtuse?

It was said that the O-line "sucked ass" last season.
I pointed out that that "suck ass" O-line is basically in tact.
And that the Bengals focused on restocking the skill positions.
So of course that means that they think the O-line should be better
with another year under their belts. And the skill positions needed
an overhaul. It's that simple.

WTH? Of course they expected to upgrade last season... That in reality, is not the way it happened. However you want to slice it, if Smith starts the season as our RT, then it WILL be a change over last season.

Spin it however you want, but if everything goes according to plan, we will have an upgraded RT position this year from last.

Are you really going to refuse to admit that?

[oldschooler]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 02:50 PM, said:

WTH? Of course they expected to upgrade last season... That in reality, is not the way it happened. However you want to slice it, if Smith starts the season as our RT, then it WILL be a change over last season.

Spin it however you want, but if everything goes according to plan, we will have an upgraded RT position this year from last.

Are you really going to refuse to admit that?

lol

Where in the fuck did I say it wouldn't change?

Follow along carefully before responding.

Someone in this thread blamed the passing game struggles on the shitty O-line.
I said they made no moves to address it. Even if they do get a player that is already
on the roster to start, 80% of that shitty O-line will remain intact.

Then I went on to say that I personally thought that the skill position players
were more of a reason that the passing game struggled. I pointed out how
they have re-stocked the shelves. I pointed out how the recievers led the NFL
in fumbles last season (while being near the bottom of completions) and
also had a bout 35-40 drops. Do you think if they wouldn't have had all of
those gaffs, that the passing game wouldn't have looked better? Me neither.
And apparently the Bengals feel the same way. They stood pat with what
they had on the roster as far as the O-line goes. And shuffled things up
as far as recievers go.

No slant. No spin. Just saying I think the majority of the problem was not
the "shitty" O-line. And the moves by the team seems to go hand in hand
with what I am saying.

[Lucid]

oldschooler, on 29 July 2010 - 03:01 PM, said:

lol

Where in the fuck did I say it wouldn't change?

Follow along carefully before responding.

Someone in this thread blamed the passing game struggles on the shitty O-line.
I said they made no moves to address it. Even if they do get a player that is already
on the roster to start, 80% of that shitty O-line will remain intact.

Then I went on to say that I personally thought that the skill position players
were more of a reason that the passing game struggled. I pointed out how
they have re-stocked the shelves. I pointed out how the recievers led the NFL
in fumbles last season (while being near the bottom of completions) and
also had a bout 35-40 drops. Do you think if they wouldn't have had all of
those gaffs, that the passing game wouldn't have looked better? Me neither.
And apparently the Bengals feel the same way. They stood pat with what
they had on the roster as far as the O-line goes. And shuffled things up
as far as recievers go.

No slant. No spin. Just saying I think the majority of the problem was not
the "shitty" O-line. And the moves by the team seems to go hand in hand
with what I am saying.

WTF...

I will refrain from following suit and being snide.

You used the fact that the Bengals didn't sign anyone as proof that the line was not a problem last year... I pointed out that is not necessarily the case because they had an "upgrade" over last season already in house.

As far as I know the argument isn't "the OL guys on our roster suck" as opposed to "our OL performance last year left something to be desired".

I put forth that inserting Andre at RT IS an upgrade over our starter at RT from last season, and I believe the coaches expect better play from the C and LG positions through experience and skill advancement.

Is there really anything in what I just said that you take issue with?

[oldschooler]

Andre Smith in the doghouse?
3:56PM ET
Andre Smith | Bengals



Cincinnati Bengals offensive tackle Andre Smith is battling for the starting right tackle job this preseason, and he's not off to a very good start.Joe Reedy of the Cincinnati Enquirer tweeted word from head coach Marvin Lewis on Thursday that it could be two to three weeks before Smith gets on the field. Furthermore, Smith may be placed on the active/PUP list.

Is Lewis pleased with the development from his team's first pick from a year ago? Not exactly.

"Marvin Lewis not happy with rehab that jillionaire OT Andre Smith did in off-season," Sports Illustrated's Peter King tweeted. "Ought to be fully rehabbed from foot injury. He's not."


http://insider.espn....features/rumors

[oldschooler]

Lucid, on 29 July 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

WTF...

I will refrain from following suit and being snide.

You used the fact that the Bengals didn't sign anyone as proof that the line was not a problem last year... I pointed out that is not necessarily the case because they had an "upgrade" over last season already in house.

As far as I know the argument isn't "the OL guys on our roster suck" as opposed to "our OL performance last year left something to be dedired".

I put forth that inserting Andre at RT IS an upgrade over our starter at RT from last season, and I believe the coaches expect better play from the C and LG positions through experience and skill advancement.

Is there really anything in what I just said that you take issue with?

Why stop being snide now?

How in the fuck does them having an upgrade on the roster equate to them being the problem
with the passing game struggles? And how does them expecting a unit that had little experience
together, and in some cases, NFL experience period equate to that? Seriously. How does that
even make sense? You are talking about the future. Them getting better. That should be a given.
I was talking about last season. And how they didn't make any moves that wasn't already on
last year's roster to the "shitty" O-line.

Do YOU get it now?

Or are you going to call me obtuse again? lol