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Guest fredtoast
Doug Johnson and Krenzel are not even close to the quality of Jamie Martin. Kitna is close, but he also is not as good as Martin. Look at their production in the NFL:

[u]CAREER PASSER RATING[/u]
Krenzel.....52.5 (probably one of the lowest of any active QB in the league)
Johnson....69.4 (also terrible. Johnson is so bad he couldn't even make any team last year as a #3)
Kitna........75.3 (below average for an NFL QB, and it does not take into consideration fumbles)
Martin.......81.9 (this number would have placed Martin in the top 15 to 20 in the NFL last season)


There are some thing I like about Kitna, but I don't want to see him back with the Bengals. He has lost whatever skills he used to have. Compare his numbers to Martin's over the last two years

Kitna..........76-133 57.1% 722 yds 5 tds 6 ints 66.1 rating
Martin.......140-207 67.6% 1,465 yds 5 tds 7 ints 81.9 rating

Thes numbers don't include Kitna's pathetic playoff game where he posted a 60.1 passer rating and fumbled twice. If Carson loves him then they can talk on the phone every day if they want. That is not a good enough reason to keep Kitna as the Bengals #2 QB when someone else is available. What if Carson was best friends with Ohaleta?

And I don't want to hear about Kitna being better if he gets more practice snaps. Martin put up his numbers coming off the bench also.
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[quote name='fredtoast' post='231606' date='Mar 14 2006, 10:51 AM']Doug Johnson and Krenzel are not even close to the quality of Jamie Martin. Kitna is close, but he also is not as good as Martin. Look at their production in the NFL:

[u]CAREER PASSER RATING[/u]
Krenzel.....52.5 (probably one of the lowest of any active QB in the league)
Johnson....69.4 (also terrible. Johnson is so bad he couldn't even make any team last year as a #3)
Kitna........75.3 (below average for an NFL QB, and it does not take into consideration fumbles)
Martin.......81.9 (this number would have placed Martin in the top 15 to 20 in the NFL last season)


There are some thing I like about Kitna, but I don't want to see him back with the Bengals. He has lost whatever skills he used to have. Compare his numbers to Martin's over the last two years

Kitna..........76-133 57.1% 722 yds 5 tds 6 ints 66.1 rating
Martin.......140-207 67.6% 1,465 yds 5 tds 7 ints 81.9 rating

Thes numbers don't include Kitna's pathetic playoff game where he posted a 60.1 passer rating and fumbled twice. If Carson loves him then they can talk on the phone every day if they want. That is not a good enough reason to keep Kitna as the Bengals #2 QB when someone else is available. What if Carson was best friends with Ohaleta?

And I don't want to hear about Kitna being better if he gets more practice snaps. Martin put up his numbers coming off the bench also.[/quote]


really money is all that matters, and im pretty sure id rather spend the 1-2 mil a year toward signing a grady jackson or another nasty DT than i would some overrated career backup QB. the dude got hurt twice last season, hes an injury prone bum thats not worth the cash. listen to some of you... hell i even read threads about how much we want tommy maddox! wtf is wrong with you people...
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Guest fredtoast
[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='231617' date='Mar 14 2006, 10:58 AM']wtf is wrong with you people...[/quote]

There is nothing wrong with us. We need a #2 QB. Kitna has SUCKED as a back up the last two years and wants to go someplace else. Who do you recommend we sign? Where can we find a better value than Martin?
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Bengals | Agent plans to talk to team about J. Martin
Tue, 14 Mar 2006 17:27:57 -0800

Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports agent Tom Mills said free agent QB Jamie Martin (Rams) particularly enjoyed getting reacquainted with Cincinnati Bengals quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese during his visit to Cincinnati Tuesday, March 14. Mills has yet to talk to the front office. "I plan to talk to the front office in the morning if they don't get in touch with me," said Tom Mills late Tuesday afternoon, March 14. "He's interested. He felt comfortable and it helps a lot that Ken is there. I don't think it's a surprise that Kitna is gone, but now the situation is clarified."
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isnt jamie martin 38?! holy shit that is old <_< we are wasting are time talking about him all he is gunna do is offer competion during trqining camp if he is signed -_- and i rather have ferotte or aaron brooks or SENACA WALLACE(my favorite back-up QB in the nfl) jus my 2 cents. :wave: WHO DEY~!

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[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='231559' date='Mar 14 2006, 10:09 AM'][quote name='FulcherVulcher33' post='231424' date='Mar 13 2006, 11:56 PM']
[quote name='NASTYNATI' post='231264' date='Mar 13 2006, 08:47 PM']
if we sign this bum ill be pissed![/quote]


This dude is a kitna loving jockstrap rida :1hump: , trust me i know he is my roommate and he almost cried [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//20.gif[/img] when i told him shitna was as good as gone today
[/quote]


this guys a fucktard :685:

i say we work out krenzel (yes i said krenzel even tho he's a buckeye), doug johnson and bank on palmer coming back on time... we signed a veteran safety, and its obvious marvin plans on working on the defense this offseason so with that being said, our offense wont have to work so hard to win every game. we can spend a 4th or 5th round pick on a qb and let him come in and battle for the number 2-3 qb position if need be. i just dont see the point in spending money on a guy like martin who is another jon kitna without the knowledge of this offense, friendship with palmer, or the leadership role he plays with the entire team (hell chad johnson still runs to celebrate with him after each td grab). the relationship between palmer and kitna isnt some bs on camera friendship, i really believe that palmer will be upset without him to look to on the sidelines.

again ill be pissed if we sign martin, but im sure that marvin will do what he thinks is best... if we hadnt signed jackson id say that martin is a shoe in for the job, but im not so sure that marvin and brown are going to start throwing money around this fast.
[/quote]
man i agree to every thing your saying dude, why waste money on QB's play the guys we have on the bench, their getting paid for it other wise i don't know why we have them. work on that defense and were gonna be cool.

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I don't really see his "not having much of an arm" is a negative.

Kitna sliced and diced his way through the Pitt D with those kind of passes, hell he got us a 17-7 lead throwing those 15 yard routes.

But all Pitt had to do was wait for our D to crack, which it did. Once Pitt got the lead they just dropped 8-9 guys back into coverage. End of story.

It's going to be hard for even Peyton Manning to find an open WR with 8 or 9 guys covering his WRs, nonetheless Jon Kitna.

It all comes down to having a goddamn defense. If we had a defense in that PO game, Pitt stays honest on D, never gets the lead and we win.

I really wished he had just handed the ball of to Chris Perry time after time late in that game. It would have slowed down the game, and forced Pitt to either give up the long runs and the threat of Perry taking it to the house, or come up and play honest and picked apart by those 15 yard passes.
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[quote name='TheWretchedMass' post='232266' date='Mar 15 2006, 01:20 AM']I don't really see his "not having much of an arm" is a negative.

Kitna sliced and diced his way through the Pitt D with those kind of passes, hell he got us a 17-7 lead throwing those 15 yard routes.

But all Pitt had to do was wait for our D to crack, which it did. Once Pitt got the lead they just dropped 8-9 guys back into coverage. End of story.

It's going to be hard for even Peyton Manning to find an open WR with 8 or 9 guys covering his WRs, nonetheless Jon Kitna.

It all comes down to having a goddamn defense. If we had a defense in that PO game, Pitt stays honest on D, never gets the lead and we win.

I really wished he had just handed the ball of to Chris Perry time after time late in that game. It would have slowed down the game, and forced Pitt to either give up the long runs and the threat of Perry taking it to the house, or come up and play honest and picked apart by those 15 yard passes.[/quote]
Interesting take on that, TWM. However, it still doesn't explain Kitna leaving the pocket, fumbling the ball, or underthrowing open recievers.

You do bring up a good point, if we had ran the ball more, Kit's average arm would have been enough to salt the game away. We lost what little momentum we had when we blew that field goal. That allowed the Cheaters to take the lead and the game.

But that's beating a dead horse :2dedhorse:

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Jon mental errors were not part of my equation.

He should have just tucked it and took off instead of running around like a panicked chicken.

Jon didn't start REALLY screwing up until we lost the lead, up until that point he did a pretty solid job.

Like I said, he was solid enough to lead us to 17 points.

If our D had kept that lead, Jon would not have been under the kind of pressure he was, he wouldn't have fumbled or run out of the pocket trying to make something happen.

I go back to the Colt/Steeler PO game. Indy was down at the half and came out and just comepletely pounded James 90 some yards for a TD, but then they backed off.

They should have kept at. The more you run James, the more they wear down and then the more you can run James.

Put 2 more TEs on the line, one on each side and that helps to bolster your run blocking.

They could have EASLIY taken that game over with "Steeler ball" but instead choose to go back to the air and lost.

Fuck your ego and passing attack at that point, you're trying to win a goddamn SB.
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Guest Claptonrocks
Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...
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[quote name='MAGICTOUCH' post='232258' date='Mar 15 2006, 12:43 AM'][quote name='Kochman' post='232253' date='Mar 15 2006, 12:37 AM']
I seen another forum throwing around Detmers name. :1violin:[/quote]


Ty or Koy?


Isn't Ty like 50 years old now? j/k

Koy could be a possibility...
[/quote]

Yea Koy.

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Guest oldschooler
[quote][size=5][b]Bengals close in on QB[/b] [/size]
[size=3][b]Veteran Martin may sign deal[/b][/size]

By Kevin Goheen
Post staff reporter

The Bengals are still seeking a backup to quarterback Carson Palmer, but it may not be for much longer.

St. Louis veteran Jamie Martin visited Paul Brown Stadium on Tuesday and could have a contract before he leaves town today. Martin's visit coincided with the announcement out of Detroit that former Bengals backup Jon Kitna had agreed to a four-year deal with the Lions.

"It's been a good day and it's a comfortable situation for Jamie," said Tom Mills, Martin's agent. "It's comfortable because of his familiarity with (quarterbacks coach) Ken Zampese from their days in St. Louis. He knows what the coaches expect and, while he might not know the exact offense he will know some facets of it.

"His learning curve won't be too steep."

If the two sides agree to terms, that is.

Martin has played 11 seasons in the NFL, but he broke into the league in 1993 with the Rams when they still had Los Angeles in their name. He saw the most extensive action of his career last season, playing in eight games, including five starts, and compiling an 83.5 passer rating. He completed 70.1 percent of his passes (124 of 177) for 1,277 yards, five touchdowns and seven interceptions.

The Rams went 4-1 in Martin's five starts.

Tuesday was a busy day for NFL quarterbacks. Along with Kitna's signing in Detroit, Miami traded a second-round draft choice to Minnesota to acquire Daunte Culpepper while New Orleans signed Drew Brees to a six-year deal worth $60 million.

Kitna's departure to the Lions ends what had been a good relationship for both the quarterback and the Bengals. He was signed as an unrestricted free agent from Seattle in 2001 and promptly led the team to a 4-3 record, including an Opening Day victory against eventual Super Bowl champion New England. It was the franchise's first winning mark that late in the season in a decade.

The team slumped and finished 6-10. Gus Frerotte was signed in the offseason and won the starting job in the 2002 training camp but after four games Kitna was re-inserted into the lineup. If there was a silver lining in what turned out to be the worst season (2-14) in franchise history it was how Kitna helped the offense find something of an identity. Kitna threw for 3,178 yards and 16 touchdowns, with wide receiver Chad Johnson catching 69 passes for 1,166 yards and five touchdowns.

Kitna earned Comeback Player of the Year honors in 2003, when he threw for 3,591 yards and 26 touchdowns while guiding the Bengals to an 8-8 record. Even though the Bengals selected Palmer with the No. 1 overall pick in the draft that year, Kitna took every snap that season and the Bengals were in contention for a playoff spot until the final game.

Head coach Marvin Lewis replaced Kitna with Palmer in 2004 but, to his credit, Kitna was never a hindrance to Palmer's development but instead a significant contributing factor in it.

Kitna entered free agency this year seeking an opportunity to compete for a starting job, something that wouldn't happen with the Bengals even with the uncertainty of Palmer's health status. The Bengals expect Palmer to be fully recovered from knee surgery and ready to play in the season opener but no one will truly know that until that time.

In Detroit, Kitna goes to a team with another former high draft pick in Joey Harrington but Harrington has not lived up to his billing as the No. 3 overall pick in the 2002 draft and new head coach Rod Marinelli has no allegiance to play Harrington if he's not the Lions' best option.[/quote]



[url="http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060315/SPT03/603150330/1022/RSS0302"]http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...30/1022/RSS0302[/url]
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[quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232278' date='Mar 15 2006, 02:19 AM']Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...[/quote]

Dude, he was 4-1 with the Rams last year. The Rams! You know, the team that finished 6-10. He can't be all that bad.
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Guest Claptonrocks
[quote name='Jason' post='232322' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:47 AM'][quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232278' date='Mar 15 2006, 02:19 AM']
Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...[/quote]

Dude, he was 4-1 with the Rams last year. The Rams! You know, the team that finished 6-10. He can't be all that bad.
[/quote]
I didnt day he was "all that bad" Im saying he has a slightly below average arm strength...
I dont think defenses fear his ability in the long game... He may be a good dinker...
If not a big Martin fan.. If you like him great ....Dude
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[quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232327' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:56 AM'][quote name='Jason' post='232322' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:47 AM']
[quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232278' date='Mar 15 2006, 02:19 AM']
Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...[/quote]

Dude, he was 4-1 with the Rams last year. The Rams! You know, the team that finished 6-10. He can't be all that bad.
[/quote]
I didnt day he was "all that bad" Im saying he has a slightly below average arm strength...
I dont think defenses fear his ability in the long game... He may be a good dinker...
If not a big Martin fan.. If you like him great ....Dude
[/quote]

I would rather have a guy with an average arm who makes good decisions, than a guy with a big arm who doesn't.
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[quote name='Jason' post='232330' date='Mar 15 2006, 08:15 AM'][quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232327' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:56 AM']
[quote name='Jason' post='232322' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:47 AM']
[quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232278' date='Mar 15 2006, 02:19 AM']
Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...[/quote]

Dude, he was 4-1 with the Rams last year. The Rams! You know, the team that finished 6-10. He can't be all that bad.
[/quote]
I didnt day he was "all that bad" Im saying he has a slightly below average arm strength...
I dont think defenses fear his ability in the long game... He may be a good dinker...
If not a big Martin fan.. If you like him great ....Dude
[/quote]

I would rather have a guy with an average arm who makes good decisions, than a guy with a big arm who doesn't.
[/quote]

Just keep moving the chains down the field ten yards at a time until Carson is ready to play. It looks like our defense will help keep the other teams' offense off the field. This may be the year!
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Guest Claptonrocks
[quote name='Jason' post='232330' date='Mar 15 2006, 08:15 AM'][quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232327' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:56 AM']
[quote name='Jason' post='232322' date='Mar 15 2006, 07:47 AM']
[quote name='Claptonrocks' post='232278' date='Mar 15 2006, 02:19 AM']
Bottom line is you need a QB with at least an average arm to keep defenses honest...
Adding players to the defense will improve it but it doesnt mean your going to have a lead late in games all the time.. The NFL is set up for parity and all teams ( or most ) have a shot at winning late in a game.
A QB with a noodlearm isnt going to lead many comebacks if necessary. Thats why Im not crazy about Martin...[/quote]

Dude, he was 4-1 with the Rams last year. The Rams! You know, the team that finished 6-10. He can't be all that bad.
[/quote]
I didnt day he was "all that bad" Im saying he has a slightly below average arm strength...
I dont think defenses fear his ability in the long game... He may be a good dinker...
If not a big Martin fan.. If you like him great ....Dude
[/quote]

I would rather have a guy with an average arm who makes good decisions, than a guy with a big arm who doesn't.
[/quote]
12 td's and 17 ints in the last three years is an indication that his "good decisions" might not be all that good. .. thats why he's a backup.... the guy is coming cheap...
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I would be pleased if they signed Jamie Martin at this point. He's one of the better options out there for what the Bengals need: someone to run the offense through the off-season and be able to step in for a few games in case Carson is not ready to start the season. I don't see his age as being a huge factor since he hasn't had the wear and tear of being a starter in the league throughout his career. I feel he is definitely better than what we have in Johnson and Krenzel. His asking price shouldn't break the bank either. I think he'd be a nice fit.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest schotzee
Bengals | Team to talk to Mills again about J. Martin
Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:01:30 -0800

Mark Curnutte, of the Cincinnati Enquirer, reports the Cincinnati Bengals will talk again Friday, March 24, to Tom Mills, agent for free agent QB Jamie Martin (Rams). Martin has the ability, price tag and temperament to play if starting QB Carson Palmer is forced to miss any time for the Bengals as he rehabilitates his surgically repaired left knee.
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Guest oldschooler
[quote][size=5][b]Bengals talk with QB Martin[/b][/size]
[size=3][b]Bengals notebook[/b][/size]
BY MARK CURNUTTE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER


The Bengals talked contract Friday with the agent for quarterback Jamie Martin, but Tom Mills said late in the day not to expect a deal any time soon.

"We did exchange contract proposals," Mills said of his conversation with Bengals vice president Troy Blackburn. "There is mutual interest."

But Mills said a possible contract probably won't be completed for a week or two.


Martin was 3-1 in games he started and finished last season for the Rams. He is an unrestricted free agent.

The Bengals had an official visit Thursday with former Ravens quarterback Anthony Wright.

The Bengals are trying to sign a quarterback to compete for a potential part-time starting role if starter Carson Palmer is not ready to return from knee surgery.

The team currently has two healthy quarterbacks, Doug Johnson and Craig Krenzel, under contract.

[b]READY, SET:[/b] The Bengals' offseason strength and conditioning program will begin April 3 at Paul Brown Stadium.

Some players already are working out at the stadium.

[b]SALARY DETAILS:[/b] The Bengals have yet to announce the official re-signing of linebacker Marcus Wilkins, who was an unrestricted free agent.

Wilkins is believed to have agreed to a one-year contract worth $585,000. His agent said Wilkins will receive a $40,000 signing bonus.

The new collective bargaining extension increased minimum salaries $40,000 across the board. The minimum for players with five through seven years of experience is now $585,000.

[b]NO DEAL:[/b] Defensive tackle Lional Dalton, who made a free-agent visit to Cincinnati, has re-signed with the Chiefs. He received a four-year contract.

[b]CANDIDATE?[/b] Former Bengals linebacker Reggie Williams surfaced Friday in a Philadelphia Daily News story as a candidate to replace retiring NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue.

Williams, who is recovering from an infection following knee-replacement surgery, told the Daily News that he has not spoken directly with anyone from the league about the commissioner's job.

"It's very humbling and flattering to be even mentioned as a potential candidate for those very big shoes," Williams told the newspaper. "They're familiar with what I'm doing here with Walt Disney World and Disney's Wide World of Sports. I've had the great fortune to be a part of something very special here."

Finding a replacement for Tagliabue is one of the topics on the agenda for the league meetings in Orlando, Fla., next week.[/quote]


[url="http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060325/SPT02/603250324/1066/rss07"]http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...0324/1066/rss07[/url]
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