Guest oldschooler Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote][size=5][b]Reds acquire righty Arroyo for Pena[/b][/size] By Justice B. Hill / MLB.com SARASOTA, Fla. -- Outfielder Wily Mo Pena had just said his hellos to his Reds teammates Monday and had to then turn around and say his good-byes. Fresh from the World Baseball Classic, Pena arrived in Reds camp and found out before the morning ended that he'd been traded to the Red Sox. "I was surprised when they told me," he said. "It was like when they traded me from the Yankees to here. It's another team. I'll have to focus and be ready for anything." In exchange for the 24-year-old Pena, the Reds picked up right-hander Bronson Arroyo, a pitcher who went 14-10 with a 4.51 ERA last season, and roughly $2 million to offset Arroyo's salary. The trade boiled down to two teams that had excess pieces in one area and willing to trade one of those pieces to strengthen an area of weakness, Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. Krivsky said the trade came about very quickly when the two sides realized that they had mutual interests that could be served. "They've got about seven starting pitchers in their minds, and I would agree with that," he said of the Red Sox. "They're dealing from an area of surplus. They needed a right-handed bat. " He said Pena, long considered a talent that was ready to blossom, would fit in nicely to hitter-friendly Fenway Park, where he'll probably play a platoon role. Adding the 29-year-old Arroyo makes the Reds stronger, because a Major League team never has too much pitching, Krivsky said. "He brings us a proven starting pitcher," Krivksy said. "The last two years, he's averaged roughly 190 innings. He's taken the ball every fifth day. He's never been hurt. "I feel real good about the addition to our rotation." So does manager Jerry Narron. "For us, we get a solid Major League starter that's pitched in big games and knows how to compete," Narron said. "He's a guy who can throw a pitch over on any count. You've got to be able to do that. "He's a guy who can give you 200 innings, which we definitely need. One thing that we've been missing is guys that go deep in the games. We think he's going to be able to do that for us." Narron said he's made no decision on where Arroyo will fit into the rotation. He said Aaron Harang will remain at the front of it, and Arroyo should slide into the No. 2 or No. 3 spot. "Whether he'll pitch that first time out before (Brandon) Claussen or after him, I don't know," Narron said. "But he'll be right there somewhere at the top of it." In trading Pena, Narron will get a more settled situation in left field and at first base. He said Adam Dunn will move to left, and Scott Hatteberg will pick up at-bats at first base. Dunn and Hatteberg improve the defense at both positions. Narron said he hated to see Pena go, but ... "I like Wily Mo," Narron said. "I think everybody here does. But that's just part of the game. We're just trying to do everything we can to get better."[/quote] [url="http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060320&content_id=1356625&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin"]http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...t=.jsp&c_id=cin[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Arroyo's going to tear it up with his 4.5 ERA. Look for that to be hovering around 6.0 after his stint with the Reds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BengalsOwn Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='Lawman' post='235341' date='Mar 20 2006, 02:32 PM'][quote name='Nati Ice' post='235330' date='Mar 20 2006, 02:05 PM'] 1) all indications are that hatteberg will play the majority of 1b 2) just bc some of you have a hard on for big wily does not mean that this was not a good trade. could we have gotten more for him? probably, but we had neither the time nor benefit of selling a proven athelete. wily has all the potential in the world, but he cant field for shit and we already have enough power hitters. potential and longballs dont win games, pitching does... and thats exactly what we dont have, and thats exactly why we traded wily mo.[/quote] There could be a Homer Bailey sighting this year at the GABP [/quote] And yet another ruined young arm, if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 You guys act like Boston isn't a hitters park as well, why? Yeah, the Green Monster...woooo, its 310 feet away from the plate, right field is [size=4]302![/size] away... [url="http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm"]http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm[/url] Plus, there the whole DH thing in the AL...no pitchers batting for easy outs. Plus, Boston's bullpen sucked ass last season...he should have probably had 3 or 4 more wins than he ended up with last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='BengalsOwn' post='235363' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:40 PM']Arroyo's going to tear it up with his 4.5 ERA. Look for that to be hovering around 6.0 after his stint with the Reds.[/quote] Probably closer to 5. GABP will add to his ERA, but at least he will get to pitch to a pitcher a couple of times per game. But I agree in principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted March 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='BengalsOwn' post='235363' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:40 PM']Arroyo's going to tear it up with his 4.5 ERA. Look for that to be hovering around 6.0 after his stint with the Reds.[/quote] ERA is a jaded stat... the real grade on pitchers is WHIP... and arroyo has a very very solid one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 WHIP? Walks and Hits per Innings Pitched? I think ERA is equally valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='235385' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:17 PM'][quote name='BengalsOwn' post='235363' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:40 PM'] Arroyo's going to tear it up with his 4.5 ERA. Look for that to be hovering around 6.0 after his stint with the Reds.[/quote] ERA is a jaded stat... the real grade on pitchers is WHIP... and arroyo has a very very solid one [/quote] What happened to ERA during it's childhood that made him so jaded? Was his dad a deadbeat, was his mom on drugs???? Hopefully ERA can pull it together and realize that the world is a beautiful place filled with many wonderful opportinuities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 all stats are flawed in some way... for instance, w/ ERA: 1. how many were caused by bad defensive plays, that weren't errors? 2. how many bad games did he have? was he up and down all year, or did he have some great games and some bad games? 3. how good was his defense in general behind him? 4. ERA is automatically adjusted for the AL, considered the DH 5. did the stadium effect this ERA either way? same w/ W/L: 1. how many games did he leave w/ a lead, and lose that lead? 2. how much help did he get offensively, when he pitched? 3. how many games did he leave down, and get helped out b/c the red sox came back? WHIP: 1. how many of those hits and walks scored? i like the trade personally, b/c i think arroya is a proven winner and will fit in nicely in our rotation, while we were trying to fit wily mo into our lineup somehow... we were stacked on one end, and understaffed on the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochman Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='235285' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:03 PM'][quote name='#22' post='235283' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:02 PM'] [quote name='bengalrick' post='235272' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:45 PM'] [quote name='#22' post='235268' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:41 PM'] 1.) I agree. The WHIP is dominating. 2.) I just finished talking with my History Prof., who is a diehard Red Sox fan (having spend some time in their farm system). He said it was a great trade for the Reds (much much better than the Casey for Williams trade).[/quote] imo, horrible trade for the red sox... [/quote] It depends. I think he will flourish as a backup in their system behind Coco and he may see some significant time as a DH. Besides, Arroyo has been less than spectacular so far in Spring Training [/quote] behind coco?? he's thier center fielder? Wily Mo will most likely DH instead of Ortiz, and let Ortiz play first, and put thier firstbaseman on the block [/quote] Have you ever seen Ortiz play first he sucks. I think he is afraid of the ball. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochman Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='235399' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:36 PM']yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton.[/quote] Im still pissed about the Milton signing. So Wilson moves to the bullpen now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='Kochman' post='235427' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:19 PM'][quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='235285' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:03 PM'] [quote name='#22' post='235283' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:02 PM'] [quote name='bengalrick' post='235272' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:45 PM'] [quote name='#22' post='235268' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:41 PM'] 1.) I agree. The WHIP is dominating. 2.) I just finished talking with my History Prof., who is a diehard Red Sox fan (having spend some time in their farm system). He said it was a great trade for the Reds (much much better than the Casey for Williams trade).[/quote] imo, horrible trade for the red sox... [/quote] It depends. I think he will flourish as a backup in their system behind Coco and he may see some significant time as a DH. Besides, Arroyo has been less than spectacular so far in Spring Training [/quote] behind coco?? he's thier center fielder? Wily Mo will most likely DH instead of Ortiz, and let Ortiz play first, and put thier firstbaseman on the block [/quote] Have you ever seen Ortiz play first he sucks. I think he is afraid of the ball. LOL [/quote] david ortiz refuses to play first base. 1) because of his knee and 2) because he sucks at it and likes to focus on his hitting Wily Mo Pena will be the LF. Manny Ramirez in RF, Coco in CF and Trot Nixon is on the trade block. They have been lookin to trade him, but wanted to get a replacement first. Until Nixon is gone, Wily is going to split at bats with him. [quote name='Kochman' post='235430' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:24 PM'][quote name='JC' post='235399' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:36 PM'] yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton.[/quote] Im still pissed about the Milton signing. [b]So Wilson moves to the bullpen now?[/b] [/quote] how about to the waiver wire because he fucking blows ass and for some reason our fucking dumbass team has a chub for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochman Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='235431' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:29 PM'][quote name='Kochman' post='235427' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:19 PM'] [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='235285' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:03 PM'] [quote name='#22' post='235283' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:02 PM'] [quote name='bengalrick' post='235272' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:45 PM'] [quote name='#22' post='235268' date='Mar 20 2006, 12:41 PM'] 1.) I agree. The WHIP is dominating. 2.) I just finished talking with my History Prof., who is a diehard Red Sox fan (having spend some time in their farm system). He said it was a great trade for the Reds (much much better than the Casey for Williams trade).[/quote] imo, horrible trade for the red sox... [/quote] It depends. I think he will flourish as a backup in their system behind Coco and he may see some significant time as a DH. Besides, Arroyo has been less than spectacular so far in Spring Training [/quote] behind coco?? he's thier center fielder? Wily Mo will most likely DH instead of Ortiz, and let Ortiz play first, and put thier firstbaseman on the block [/quote] Have you ever seen Ortiz play first he sucks. I think he is afraid of the ball. LOL [/quote] david ortiz refuses to play first base. 1) because of his knee and 2) because he sucks at it and likes to focus on his hitting Wily Mo Pena will be the LF. Manny Ramirez in RF, Coco in CF and Trot Nixon is on the trade block. They have been lookin to trade him, but wanted to get a replacement first. Until Nixon is gone, Wily is going to split at bats with him. [quote name='Kochman' post='235430' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:24 PM'][quote name='JC' post='235399' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:36 PM'] yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton.[/quote] Im still pissed about the Milton signing. [b]So Wilson moves to the bullpen now?[/b] [/quote] how about to the waiver wire because he fucking blows ass and for some reason our fucking dumbass team has a chub for him. [/quote] He did have 2 solid seasons with the Reds before his injury. He is expendable now with Bronson and Williams here now. I think he is making almost to much money to cut. Not sure how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='Kochman' post='235430' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:24 PM'][quote name='JC' post='235399' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:36 PM'] yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton.[/quote] Im still pissed about the Milton signing. So Wilson moves to the bullpen now? [/quote] wilson is still hurt, i think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='235548' date='Mar 20 2006, 08:45 PM'][quote name='Kochman' post='235430' date='Mar 20 2006, 05:24 PM'] [quote name='JC' post='235399' date='Mar 20 2006, 04:36 PM'] yay!!! another guy with a 4+ era!!!! For one of the upcoming hitters in the league! Great Trade. Let's hope he isn't as good as Eric Milton.[/quote] Im still pissed about the Milton signing. So Wilson moves to the bullpen now? [/quote] wilson is still hurt, i think... [/quote] he is expected back for the first time we need 5 SPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 trying to find out more about arroyo.... uh oh......[url="http://www.deadspin.com/sports/boston-red-sox/bronson-arroyo-now-officially-a-rock-star-126520.php"]click here[/url] sort of funny... he's w/ mass bitches, getting fucked up.... and none are w/ his wife!!! also, interesting facts in wikipedia about him [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronson_Arroyo"]wikipedia[/url]: [i] In a six-season career, Arroyo has compiled a 33-33 record with 367 strikeouts and a 4.59 ERA in 588.1 innings. Arroyo's fastball is in the upper 80-MPH and is quite effective considering his excellent command. Nevertheless, his best pitch is a sharp slider, moving away from right-handers. He is good at pulling the string on the curveball, and he has a straight changeup as well. He also is good at holding runners, and he covers his ground well and knows what to do when he gets the ball. Arroyo incorporates a leg kick in his pitching motion that is unique among active major leaguers: he extends his front leg completely straight and lifts it up to a level above his waist before delivering the ball. His kick often appears to reach head level. [/i] [i] Highlight * On August 10, 2003, Arroyo pitched the fourth nine-inning perfect game in the 121-year history of the International League as the Pawtucket Red Sox beat the Buffalo Bisons 7–0 at McCoy Stadium. He needed 101 pitches to throw his masterpiece (73 strikes), struck out nine, and got 10 fly outs and eight ground balls from the Buffalo 27 batters. Amazingly, he went to a three-ball count to just three hitters all game. At the end of the month, he was with the big club for good.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrotos Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='235368' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:46 PM']You guys act like Boston isn't a hitters park as well, why? Yeah, the Green Monster...woooo, its 310 feet away from the plate, right field is [size=4]302![/size] away... [url="http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm"]http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm[/url] Plus, there the whole DH thing in the AL...no pitchers batting for easy outs. Plus, Boston's bullpen sucked ass last season...he should have probably had 3 or 4 more wins than he ended up with last season.[/quote] To go a step further, here's the Park Factors for GABP and Fenway. 1.000 is average, with greater meaning better for hitters and lower being better for pitchers: (I sorted by HR factor) 5. GABP R-0.992, HR-1.222, H-0.998, 2B-1.038, 3B-0.289, BB-0.941 7. Fenway R-1.296, HR-1.204, H-1.344, 2B-1.344, 3B-1.157, BB-1.099 Not alot of difference HR-wise between the two parks.. and Fenway gives up alot more runs. Source: [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?sort=HRFactor&season=2005"]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocScholl Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='scrotos' post='235644' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:06 PM'][quote name='sm00th_kw' post='235368' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:46 PM'] You guys act like Boston isn't a hitters park as well, why? Yeah, the Green Monster...woooo, its 310 feet away from the plate, right field is [size=4]302![/size] away... [url="http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm"]http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm[/url] Plus, there the whole DH thing in the AL...no pitchers batting for easy outs. Plus, Boston's bullpen sucked ass last season...he should have probably had 3 or 4 more wins than he ended up with last season.[/quote] To go a step further, here's the Park Factors for GABP and Fenway. 1.000 is average, with greater meaning better for hitters and lower being better for pitchers: (I sorted by HR factor) 5. GABP R-0.992, HR-1.222, H-0.998, 2B-1.038, 3B-0.289, BB-0.941 7. Fenway R-1.296, HR-1.204, H-1.344, 2B-1.344, 3B-1.157, BB-1.099 Not alot of difference HR-wise between the two parks.. and Fenway gives up alot more runs. Source: [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?sort=HRFactor&season=2005"]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005[/url] [/quote] Red Sox fan here ...and gotta say I love this deal . Being from Ohio myself , I know a lot about Wily Mo . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='235326' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:59 PM'][quote name='dieselman44' post='235316' date='Mar 20 2006, 01:46 PM'] The main thing im displeased about this trade is i think we could have gotten more for wily mo then what we did. Bengalrick you say he is overrated(which i would agree at this point) so what if we would have let him play everyday and he tears it up then the reds are out of it at the allstar break(which they normally are) someone im sure would have overpaid bigtime with some good young pitchers. This is the only concern i have with this trade, i just think we could have gotten more with wily's "potential". Lets face it the reds werent going anywhere this season so we needed to stock up on some young pitchers, which i think Wily was our best assest to do so. But other then that, we did add a decent pitcher which is what we needed.[/quote] we agree that as of now he's overrated... he has mass potential, but you guys know the saying about potential [b](ain't done shit yet!!) [/b] but if we want to build a balanced, solid team, we had to give up a dunn or pena or kearns... preferably dunn or pena b/c their trade value was high, and they are almost identical types of players... all in all, we did the right thing... we are building a solid pitching staff, which is about 10 years over due... and while doing that, we have plenty of backup's to take his place... [/quote] he hasnt had the opportunity to do shit yet. For a stretch when Kearns was hurt, wily mo started for about 2 months. In that 2 month period he hit like 292 with 14 HRs or something. Its odd that we can rip a guy who plays every few days and is just getting spot starts and shit because we are too stupid of a franchise to understand you have to let a guy play everyday b4 he can actually develop. [quote name='Lawman' post='235341' date='Mar 20 2006, 02:32 PM'][quote name='Nati Ice' post='235330' date='Mar 20 2006, 02:05 PM'] 1) all indications are that hatteberg will play the majority of 1b 2) just bc some of you have a hard on for big wily does not mean that this was not a good trade. could we have gotten more for him? probably, but we had neither the time nor benefit of selling a proven athelete. wily has all the potential in the world, but he cant field for shit and we already have enough power hitters. potential and longballs dont win games, pitching does... and thats exactly what we dont have, and thats exactly why we traded wily mo.[/quote] Right on Nati, [b]There could be a Homer Bailey sighting this year at the GABP[/b] at least Chris Sabo thinks he's ready. [/quote] they are lookin for him to come up in late 2007 for a few starts and be up for good in 2008, so i highly doubt we see shit from him this season. [quote name='DocScholl' post='235675' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:51 PM'][quote name='scrotos' post='235644' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:06 PM'] [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='235368' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:46 PM'] You guys act like Boston isn't a hitters park as well, why? Yeah, the Green Monster...woooo, its 310 feet away from the plate, right field is [size=4]302![/size] away... [url="http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm"]http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm[/url] Plus, there the whole DH thing in the AL...no pitchers batting for easy outs. Plus, Boston's bullpen sucked ass last season...he should have probably had 3 or 4 more wins than he ended up with last season.[/quote] To go a step further, here's the Park Factors for GABP and Fenway. 1.000 is average, with greater meaning better for hitters and lower being better for pitchers: (I sorted by HR factor) 5. GABP R-0.992, HR-1.222, H-0.998, 2B-1.038, 3B-0.289, BB-0.941 7. Fenway R-1.296, HR-1.204, H-1.344, 2B-1.344, 3B-1.157, BB-1.099 Not alot of difference HR-wise between the two parks.. and Fenway gives up alot more runs. Source: [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?sort=HRFactor&season=2005"]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005[/url] [/quote] [b]Red Sox fan here ...and gotta say I love this deal . Being from Ohio myself , I know a lot about Wily Mo . [/b] [/quote] i would love this deal. you traded an avg starting pitcher for potentially a star OF. it was worth the risk in the first place considering you gave up a # 3 more like a # 4 starter for him. I hope wily mo becomes amazing so i can feel better about being pissed right now. I will always root for the reds because im a cincy native, but im pretty fucking pissed off about this trade right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 It is a good trade for the Reds. We needed pitching, Arroyo is a winning pitcher even with the lousy bullpen he had stealing 5 or 6 wins from him last year. If he had solid bullpen performances in those games, he would have won 20 games instead of 14. I think it is the Red Sox that got the raw end of the deal on this one. Sure I liked Wily Mo, his power and his....defense? Let's be real...playing every day isn't going to improve his inability to properly judge a flyball much as an OF, nor is it going to improve his inability to find the cutoff man or make any sort of accurate throws whatsoever from the OF. The guy has power, and that is it. We needed pitching, and got a pretty good one in return for a player who we're tired of waiting on to develop, and who became expendable once ot became obvious that Dunn would be moved back into the OF with Hatteberg occupying first. Ya'lls crazy up in here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote name='Bunghole' post='235756' date='Mar 21 2006, 07:21 AM']It is a good trade for the Reds. We needed pitching, Arroyo is a winning pitcher even with the lousy bullpen he had stealing 5 or 6 wins from him last year. If he had solid bullpen performances in those games, he would have won 20 games instead of 14. I think it is the Red Sox that got the raw end of the deal on this one. Sure I liked Wily Mo, his power and his....defense? [b]Let's be real...playing every day isn't going to improve his inability to properly judge a flyball much as an OF, nor is it going to improve his inability to find the cutoff man or make any sort of accurate throws whatsoever from the OF.[/b] The guy has power, and that is it. We needed pitching, and got a pretty good one in return for a player who we're tired of waiting on to develop, and who became expendable once ot became obvious that Dunn would be moved back into the OF with Hatteberg occupying first. Ya'lls crazy up in here...[/quote] the best way to improve your defense is to actually experience it and since he has rarely experienced it he will be just fine. 2 seasons ago Felipe Lopez was considered hte worst fielding SS in the history of the Reds organization and now he is considered a quality defensive SS, kinda odd that he got better, since i guess u cant improve your fielding in the majors... wily mo pena has a cannon for an arm, his problem is fly balls only. He can throw the ball from the wall to home plate with some of the best. He only needs time in the OF and he can become a solid defensive OF. Dunn only has power, look at Dunns avg and k's. The only reason Dunn got alot of walks is because he never had protection behind him cuz casey/kearns/whoever we put behind him sucked ass. If wily mo pena ever got the opportunity that Dunn got he would be hitting higher avg, more walks, more HRs and less k's. If he gets playing time in Boston I bet his 2nd half of the season is fantastic and the following season he will be a monster. As a starter for the Reds the only time he got like CONSECUTIVE games, he fucking dominated. He led the team in avg, HRs and RBIs for a 1.5-2 month stretch that he played consistently every day. People forget that potential cant be achieved if u sit the bench the whole time. Wily Mo has worked his ass off to try and get better and he had an amazing fall/winter ball and really improved, i expected alot from him this coming season since he was going to get full time. I expect the Reds to regret this trade in a year at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [quote][size=5][b]Red Sox make powerful move[/b][/size] [size=3][b]They get slugger Pena for Arroyo[/b][/size] By Chris Snow, Globe Staff | March 21, 2006 FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Someone had to go, either the aging and bellicose lefthander, the talented but unpredictable righthander, or the versatile righty with the Rockette leg-kick and Eddie Vedder vocals. Yesterday, the Red Sox opted to hold on to David Wells and Matt Clement, and instead deal Bronson Arroyo, to the Cincinnati Reds for slugging outfielder Wily Mo Pena, the 24-year-old, 245-pound Dominican so strong that Mike Easler, a former Reds hitting coach, once said he looked as if he'd been ''touched by God." The Sox will pay the $750,000 signing bonus on the three-year, $11.25 million contract Arroyo signed this offseason and will send another $1.5 million in cash to the Reds. That figure represents the difference between Arroyo's 2006 salary ($2.75 million) and Pena's ($1.25 million). Though the Sox indicated they'd also talked with Cincinnati about Austin Kearns (.240, 18 homers, 67 RBIs in '05), Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said ''they were basically on Pena the whole time." Krivsky said the deal was done ''handshake by long distance" Sunday night and approved by the commissioner's office yesterday morning. ''It was a tough decision, in that there were pluses and minuses," said Sox GM Theo Epstein, ''but this was something we all felt we should do." The pluses: The righthanded-hitting Pena brings what Epstein called ''silly power" (he has homered 45 times in only 647 at-bats over the past two seasons). Despite his bulkiness, he possesses an above-average arm and above-average speed, according to the scouting measures the Sox employ. He's only 24, comes cheap this year, and doesn't become a free agent until after the 2008 season. A .248 career hitter, he has hit .272 with 19 homers in only 257 career at-bats vs. lefthanded pitchers, suggesting he can provide considerable pop on days when he spells Trot Nixon. And he also gives the Sox a possible -- perhaps even likely -- successor to Nixon, who's entering the final year of a three-year contract. ''We think he makes sense now and for the future," said Epstein, who would not directly address how this move could affect Nixon. ''Our farm system is really starting to come around, but we don't have a lot of power. He just turned 24 last month, and he has as much power as anyone in the big leagues." Another plus: Pena, despite his size, can play center field. ''In fact," Epstein said, ''there are some scouts who think he's better in center than in the corners. That's unusual for guys that size, but he's a physical freak, with some of the things he can do. He's not the type of athlete who comes around all the time." But he's also raw, both at the plate and in the field. He struck out 116 times in 311 at-bats last year. Epstein acknowledged, ''He's going to strike out a lot. He strikes out on a rate basis more than anyone else in the big leagues. That's something we have to be patient with." Pena has played nearly as many games in center (97) as he has in right (116), and though he has the tools to man either position, Fenway could be a learning experience. Last June, in interleague play vs. the Reds, Manny Ramirez hit a ball down the line in right that popped out of Pena's glove into the stands for a home run as Pena fell and bit some dust. ''He has to translate great physical tools -- run, throw -- into skills," Epstein said. Arroyo, meanwhile, is expected to be slotted behind Eric Milton as the No. 2 starter for the Reds, which should indicate how much Cincinnati needed starting pitching. In Boston, he wouldn't have cracked the rotation, which manager Terry Francona acknowledged yesterday. ''Bronson was such a safety net, which is not bad," Francona said. ''But would we have gotten the most out of him? Probably not. ''We would have had to put Bronson in the bullpen. That's kind of what Theo was talking about [Sunday]. He said, 'A trade like this might go away if Bronson gets in a role where he's not pitching as much.' " Arroyo, in 11 2/3 innings this spring, gave up 13 runs on 17 hits, though that included five shutout innings Sunday vs. Baltimore. Krivsky spoke with Arroyo yesterday and said, ''He's shocked. It probably caught him off-guard. He has real strong feelings for the Boston area, but we hope when he comes here, he'll see how much everybody here wants him." Efforts to reach Arroyo for comment yesterday were unsuccessful. Arroyo, 29, leaves a place where he became a bona fide major league pitcher and a budding rock star. After he went 9-14 with a 5.44 ERA in three seasons with the Pirates, the Sox paid the $25,000 waiver claim fee on Arroyo Feb. 4, 2002. For that, they got 73 appearances, including 61 starts (a number that matched his Sox uniform number), a 24-19 record, and a 4.19 ERA. Last year he went 14-10 with a 4.51 ERA and led the Sox in quality starts with 20. He parlayed that into the three-year, $11.25 million deal, though he signed that extension against the advice of his agent, Gregg Clifton, who believed Arroyo could be losing close to $4 million by giving up the chance to go to arbitration after the 2006 and 2007 seasons. Clifton also believed that by signing for three years at a fixed cost Arroyo would be more attractive to a small-market club. Clifton, upon seeing this reporter's number appear on his phone yesterday, answered, and instead of saying hello, said, ''Carnac. What did I tell you?" Arroyo ignored Clifton's advice, he said at the time, ''simply for the reason I want to play in this town. I love being a Red Sox. I wouldn't have signed this deal in any other [city]." The day the deal was announced, Jan. 19, Arroyo said, ''They didn't give me any guarantees [I won't be traded]. But Jed [Hoyer] and Ben [Cherington] both stated to me there were no deals on the table for me now, and they felt pretty strongly I wouldn't be traded anywhere in the near future." Happy enough, he signed and bought a townhouse in Boston. But things changed for the Sox. For one, Epstein returned as GM. For another, Wells rescinded his trade request earlier this month, leaving the Sox with seven starters. ''I've seen it written that there was some understanding between the club and Bronson with respect to signing this contract and some sort of tacit agreement not to trade him, and that simply wasn't the case," Epstein said yesterday. ''Jed Hoyer was the one who finished the contract. He told Bronson at the time that signing such a contract came with no guarantees about being traded. ''The one thing that he assured Bronson of was at the time there were no active trade discussions with Bronson, and that was certainly true, but that was several months ago and things did change as teams inquired about Bronson this spring. ''But I can assure you all that there was no handshake, there was no gentlemen's agreement, and I think all our players understand that without an express no-trade clause we can't give them any guarantee that they won't be traded at a certain point." Arroyo is expected to be in the Sox clubhouse this morning to say goodbye to teammates. Pena, too, is expected this morning. Out will walk the rail-thin breaking-ball artist. In will walk the 245-pound slugger. [b]''I've never seen anybody hit a ball harder than that guy," David Ortiz said of Pena, his Dominican teammate at the World Baseball Classic. Ortiz was asked: Not even you? ''No," Ortiz said, ''not even."[/b][/quote] Article came from the Boston Globe... 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-Dan_Bengals_FL- Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Very good trade for the Red Sox. I don't like the Reds, so this trade does not effect me at all. However, if I were a fan I would be pissed about this deal. By the time this team comes around in 2-3 years, Arroyo might not even be on the team. A smart move, if you want to give up on Pena, would have been to deal him for a prospect pitcher. Although Arroyo, might have a solid or average year, I do not see how this move, matches the plan of the organization. Maybe that is because I am assuming they have a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 [i]he hasnt had the opportunity to do shit yet. For a stretch when Kearns was hurt, wily mo started for about 2 months. In that 2 month period he hit like 292 with 14 HRs or something. Its odd that we can rip a guy who plays every few days and is just getting spot starts and shit because we are too stupid of a franchise to understand you have to let a guy play everyday b4 he can actually develop.[/i] - thurmanmunster a couple of things... he has played in 80, 110, and 99 games in the last 3 years... he's had 811 at bats in that period of time... its not like he hasn't played much or that we haven't given him a chance... i realize that he COULD become something special, w/ more playing time... that is the definition of potential... but he is still a risk... hell, give me a glove and i can field better than him... how long does he need to develop as a fielder? i guess it took me about 5 years to become a good fielder, but then again, that was in knothole league... he simply isn't a good fielder, and i doubt he will become one... what you need to think about, is instead of thinking about one player, or 9 indiviual players, you think about a team... we had adam dunn and wily mo pena last year... those two did have 59 HR's together last year in 854 at bats (dunn has a HR every 13.575 at bats and pena is at 16.368 at bats)... those are great numbers for pena last year, except that if you average out the SO's, pena would smoke dunn's strike out average... pena struck out 37% of the time last year... in comparison, dunn struck out 30.9% of the time... granted, those numbers might go down for pena w/ more PT, but that isn't the point... do we need two guys that can hit for EXTREME power, but strike out over 1/3 of the time and aren't golden glovers by any stretch of the imagination? we had two players that shouldn't be in the same lineup as each other... they didn't compliment each other, and having both as starters would have hurt us defensively... and having a shitty pitching staff, we at least good defense... pitching and defense is more important than having a power hitter in the lineup... you guys are too stuck on the "wily mo pena" factor and his potential and "will this come back to bite us later"... we can't think that way... we are building a franchise for now and in the future... having pena and dunn on teh same team is not a good way to build a team imo... [quote name='DocScholl' post='235675' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:51 PM'][quote name='scrotos' post='235644' date='Mar 20 2006, 11:06 PM'] [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='235368' date='Mar 20 2006, 03:46 PM'] You guys act like Boston isn't a hitters park as well, why? Yeah, the Green Monster...woooo, its 310 feet away from the plate, right field is [size=4]302![/size] away... [url="http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm"]http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/fenwayse.htm[/url] Plus, there the whole DH thing in the AL...no pitchers batting for easy outs. Plus, Boston's bullpen sucked ass last season...he should have probably had 3 or 4 more wins than he ended up with last season.[/quote] To go a step further, here's the Park Factors for GABP and Fenway. 1.000 is average, with greater meaning better for hitters and lower being better for pitchers: (I sorted by HR factor) 5. GABP R-0.992, HR-1.222, H-0.998, 2B-1.038, 3B-0.289, BB-0.941 7. Fenway R-1.296, HR-1.204, H-1.344, 2B-1.344, 3B-1.157, BB-1.099 Not alot of difference HR-wise between the two parks.. and Fenway gives up alot more runs. Source: [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?sort=HRFactor&season=2005"]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfa...tor&season=2005[/url] [/quote] Red Sox fan here ...and gotta say I love this deal . Being from Ohio myself , I know a lot about Wily Mo . [/quote] whats your take on arroya? any insight you can give us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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