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AN APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS.


Lawman

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A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS.
by NoEvidenceOfGenocide • Friday January 28, 2005 at 07:09 AM


No Evidence Of Genocide [This article has status - HIDDEN - due to it's racist and anti-semetic content - Nazis fuck off! - TBIMC]


The Jews And The Concentration Camps:
A Factual Appraisal By The Red Cross.

There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World War Two and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which is almost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.
This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral source incorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works: Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans les camps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), and Inter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War (Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet, explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in the tradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, and herein lies its great value.

The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention in order to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and Western Europe by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable to gain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify the Convention. The millions of civilian and military internees held in the USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, were completely cut off from any international contact or supervision.

The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies the legitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained in concentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the two categories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the second type as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German, "Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motives because their presence was considered a danger to the State or the occupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues, "were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or imprisoned under common law for security reasons." (P.74).

The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permit supervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating to security, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained important concessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute food parcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and "from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all other camps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon established contact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programme which continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters of thanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.

Red Cross Recipients Were Jews

The Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily. From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with a total weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps" (Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained clothing and pharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald, Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg, Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and in Central and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians, Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews" (Vol. III, p. 83).
In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transfer and distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty million Swiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout the world, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee of New York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted by the German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the American entry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vast relief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans but from the tight Allied blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases of relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.

The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailed at Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April 1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported from various countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p. 75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able to visit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusively for Jews and was governed by special conditions. From information gathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experiment by certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jews the means of setting up a communal life in a town under their own administration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . two delegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. They confirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol. I, p . 642).

The ICRC also had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of Fascist Rumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to 183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aid then ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded "in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The same situation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation" by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail from Auschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of the internees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross to send relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet control were futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to former Auschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald and Oranienburg.

No Evidence Of Genocide

[u]One of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that it clarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred in the camps toward the end of the war.[/u] [b]Says the Report: "In the chaotic condition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of the war, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, the German Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ... In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC and General of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results. Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegate was authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable. [/b]

In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it is important to stress that the delegates of the International Red Cross found no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of a deliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages the Report does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admits that Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours and privations, but its complete silence on the subject of planned extermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like the Vatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross found itself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocide which had become the order of the day. [u]So far as the genuine mortality rate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewish doctors from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the eastern front, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945 broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff[/u]) - [b]Incidentally, it is frequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gas chambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Report makes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, but installations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by the delegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made less primitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594). [/b] -_-

Not All Were Interned

Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian Population) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of the free population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by no means all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, but remained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the free civilian population. This conflicts directly with the "thoroughness" of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in the forged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "every single Jew he could lay his hands on."

In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wisliceny was in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of the Jewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certain periods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge for Jews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained in Slovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end of August 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. While it is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about the internment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in camps where the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where the internees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to those of the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).

Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey. Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupied territories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of the Polish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jews from Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits to the United States were held to be American citizens by the German occupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity of about three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates of South American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).

As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp in southern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jews from Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by the German authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report, "Jews who had the privilege of visas for Palestine were free to leave Hungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the Horthy Government in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the Soviet Union) with a government more dependent on German authority, the emigration of Jews continued.

The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the United States "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews from Hungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a message stating that "The Government of the United States ... now specifically repeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for the care of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed to leave" (Vol. I, p . 649).

Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six Million Really Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and Inter Arma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.

A quote from Charles Biedermann (a delegate of the International Committee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross' International Tracing Service) under oath at the Zündel Trial (February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).

Part of my True Torah vs Zionism studies coupled with claims made by Edgar J. Steele et others.

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So....If I read this right.....(i only read your bolded items to tell the truth)

The Nazi's were taking super awesome care of he Jews. But then the evil allies bombed them and they couldnot get fod to them. The gas chambers really were showers and were quite nice once they added teh massageing heads.


.....wow.
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[quote name='Ben' post='237965' date='Mar 24 2006, 04:38 PM']So....If I read this right.....(i only read your bolded items to tell the truth)

The Nazi's were taking super awesome care of he Jews. But then the evil allies bombed them and they couldnot get fod to them. The gas chambers really were showers and were quite nice once they added teh massageing heads.


.....wow.[/quote]

From other sources; in the mid 1930's; Hitler had aske Spain to take them for approx 10,000 Dutsch marks per head.

I'll get back to you on the shower's; I have to go find it from another source.

Ben, what I am presenting comes from compilations of various sources and the irony is that they are from

different viewpoints/perpsectives with opposing agenda's yet they support each other's claims.
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[quote]The gas chambers really were showers and were quite nice once they added teh massageing heads.[/quote]

A totally seperate site. This one is anti-Jewish. The previous was from a True Torah Jewish site.

What about the Auschwitz gas chambers?" you ask. Per Willis Carto's late, great Spotlight newspaper, none other than Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State Museum, [u]has admitted on film that "Krema 1," the only alleged "homicidal gas chamber" on display to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at Auschwitz, was built after the war by the Soviet Union. [/u]

[b]In 1948, three years after the war ended, formal Allied Commissions of Inquiry concluded that nobody died of poison gas at any of the German concentration camps, a conclusion also reached by modern engineering forensics expert Fred Leuchter after extensive examination of the grounds and buildings. Leuchter lost his business, his job and his reputation simply for telling the truth about his engineering and chemical tests, many of which were repeated by Dr. Germar Rudolf, who confirmed Leuchter's results. That was the major crime for which Dr. Rudolf now sits in a German prison.[/b] And yet the Holocaust myth endures!

"But the confessions..." you splutter. False. Every one of them. All those German officers were tortured by Jews prior to the Nuremburg show trials, most of them having had their [u]testicles crushed in the process[/u], which is why they signed all those confessions. What's more, [u]they signed confessions written mainly in English, a language most of them could neither read nor speak.[/u] You know the torture that Jews inflict upon Palestinians today when they catch them? That's nothing compared to what Jewish interrogators did to their German prisoners at Nuremburg. [u]What's even more telling, all the prosecutors and judges at Nuremburg were Jews.[/u]
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[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238039' date='Mar 24 2006, 07:57 PM']I don't know what to think of this. My husband is a German who moved to Canada in 1980. He is a professor of German studies and knows quite a lot about this stuff and he has seen some camps, as have I.[/quote]

BengalSIS,

This stuff blows my mind too. But, like I said "these are compilations from various sources".

When I was younger I was told Hitler was an atheist; not so.

Look at this and tell me what you think:

[img]http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/images/europefreespeech.jpg[/img]
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Guest BlackJesus
[quote name='Lawman' post='238044' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:09 PM']When I was younger I was told Hitler was an atheist; not so.[/quote]

[size=3]Well fuck I could have told you that wasn't true ....[/size]


[center][img]http://home.earthlink.net/~spiritoftruthministries/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hitler_cardinal4.jpg[/img][/center]

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

- Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

- As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

- Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

- As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

- Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

- Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

- Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

- Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings:


[color="#FF0000"][center][i]“The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” [/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops[/b]


[i]“Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” [/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism[/b]



[i]“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”[/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933[/b]



[i]"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."[/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [/b][/center][/color]
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This post is one of the main reasons I don't read this part of the forums usually. I mean with a title like "A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS" I would hope to actually see the report and not fragments with someone elses commentary trying to get me to see a certain perspective. It does seem a little like revisionist history. If you start from the end and move backwards then you can generally pick and choose what you want to support whatever position you are taking. I would rather read the text myself and make up my own mind. Won't be visiting Jesus and Dubya again....You guys have fun, I'll stick to more lighthearted discussions.
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[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238047' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:12 PM']The "proof" of camps also has compilations from various sources. We'll see I guess.[/quote]

So we honor 6 million dead Jews during WWII, when 75 million people died.

I can't believe, I am saying that -_-

You probably missed some of my other post:

From what I've read, 6 million dead jews is a magic number for Zionist Jews to satisfy what has turned out to be a miss-interpeted prophecy.

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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='238051' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:20 PM'][quote name='Lawman' post='238044' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:09 PM']
When I was younger I was told Hitler was an atheist; not so.[/quote]

[size=3]Well fuck I could have told you that wasn't true ....[/size]


[center][img]http://home.earthlink.net/~spiritoftruthministries/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/hitler_cardinal4.jpg[/img][/center]

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

- Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

- As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

- Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

- As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

- Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

- Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

- Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

- Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings:


[color="#FF0000"][center][i]“The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” [/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops[/b]


[i]“Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” [/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism[/b]



[i]“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.”[/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933[/b]



[i]"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."[/i]
[b]--- Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [/b][/center][/color]
[/quote]

Yeah, but you wasn't a gleam in your popa's eye when I was young :D

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[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='238055' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:29 PM']This post is one of the main reasons I don't read this part of the forums usually. I mean with a title like "A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS" I would hope to actually see the report and not fragments with someone elses commentary trying to get me to see a certain perspective. It does seem a little like revisionist history. If you start from the end and move backwards then you can generally pick and choose what you want to support whatever position you are taking. I would rather read the text myself and make up my own mind. Won't be visiting Jesus and Dubya again....You guys have fun, I'll stick to more lighthearted discussions.[/quote]


[url="http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220"]http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220[/url] :contract:

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[quote name='Lawman' post='238056' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:29 PM'][quote name='BengalSIS' post='238047' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:12 PM']
The "proof" of camps also has compilations from various sources. We'll see I guess.[/quote]

So we honor 6 million dead Jews during WWII, when 75 million people died.

I can't believe, I am saying that -_-

You probably missed some of my other post:

From what I've read, 6 million dead jews is a magic number for Zionist Jews to satisfy what has turned out to be a miss-interpeted prophecy.
[/quote]

I don't believe I was talking about honoring anyone. I'm just saying I don't believe it was a made up story. I've seen personally enough to make me believe. It will take more to change my mind.

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[quote name='Lawman' post='238059' date='Mar 24 2006, 06:33 PM'][quote name='Montana Bengal' post='238055' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:29 PM']
This post is one of the main reasons I don't read this part of the forums usually. I mean with a title like "A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS" I would hope to actually see the report and not fragments with someone elses commentary trying to get me to see a certain perspective. It does seem a little like revisionist history. If you start from the end and move backwards then you can generally pick and choose what you want to support whatever position you are taking. I would rather read the text myself and make up my own mind. Won't be visiting Jesus and Dubya again....You guys have fun, I'll stick to more lighthearted discussions.[/quote]


[url="http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220"]http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220[/url] :contract:
[/quote]


With statements like this "the Report distinguishes the second type " and "Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian Population) deals with the " tells me that someone else is telling me what the report is. They are summarizing and pointing to things in an ACTUAL REDCROSS REPORT. I feel like I'm reading a book report from one of my students. Get it?

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[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238060' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:35 PM'][quote name='Lawman' post='238056' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:29 PM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238047' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:12 PM']
The "proof" of camps also has compilations from various sources. We'll see I guess.[/quote]

So we honor 6 million dead Jews during WWII, when 75 million people died.

I can't believe, I am saying that -_-

You probably missed some of my other post:

From what I've read, 6 million dead jews is a magic number for Zionist Jews to satisfy what has turned out to be a miss-interpeted prophecy.
[/quote]



I don't believe I was talking about honoring anyone. I'm just saying I don't believe it was a made up story. I've seen personally enough to make me believe. It will take more to change my mind.
[/quote]

Anne Frank

Perhaps the best known Auschwitz inmate was Anne Frank, who is known around the world for her famous diary. But few people know that thousands of Jews, including Anne and her father, Otto Frank, "survived" Auschwitz.

The 15-year-old girl and her father were deported from the Netherlands to Auschwitz in September 1944. Several weeks later, in the face of the advancing Soviet army, [u]Anne was evacuated along with many other Jews to the Bergen-Belsen camp, where she died of typhus in March 1945.[/u]

Her father came down with typhus in Auschwitz and was sent to the camp hospital to recover. He was one of thousands of sick and feeble Jews who were left behind when the Germans abandoned the camp in January 1945, shortly before it was overrun by the Soviets. He died in Switzerland in 1980.

If the German policy had been to kill Anne Frank and her father, they would not have survived Auschwitz. Their fate, tragic though it was, cannot be reconciled with the extermination story.

edited: (because they were sick and unable to work)

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Commentary
From Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net
1-30-5

This article was well-written and researched. And it also means that the [u]Shindler's List film is fiction as well[/u], which also depicts countless people being gassed daily. As for the crematories, I completely concur with the commentary in the article.

The Facts: [u]It takes about 70 minutes (according to one furnace manufacturer's spec sheet, see
[1] ) to cremate a body even today[/u]. [u]This is a burner of 400KW. If each crematory furnace were to cremate 20.6 bodies in every 24 hour period running 7 days a week, then to handle 20,000 bodies a day would require more than 971 furnaces running non-stop, AND sufficient fuel to keep them all operating. And all this, in a Germany that was always short on fuel? [/u]

Preposterous of historians to never look at the numbers!
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[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='238080' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:59 PM'][quote name='Lawman' post='238059' date='Mar 24 2006, 06:33 PM']
[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='238055' date='Mar 24 2006, 08:29 PM']
This post is one of the main reasons I don't read this part of the forums usually. I mean with a title like "A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS" I would hope to actually see the report and not fragments with someone elses commentary trying to get me to see a certain perspective. It does seem a little like revisionist history. If you start from the end and move backwards then you can generally pick and choose what you want to support whatever position you are taking. I would rather read the text myself and make up my own mind. Won't be visiting Jesus and Dubya again....You guys have fun, I'll stick to more lighthearted discussions.[/quote]


[url="http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220"]http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2005/01/18220[/url] :contract:
[/quote]


With statements like this "the Report distinguishes the second type " and "Volume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish Civilian Population) deals with the " tells me that someone else is telling me what the report is. They are summarizing and pointing to things in an ACTUAL REDCROSS REPORT. I feel like I'm reading a book report from one of my students. Get it?
[/quote]

well find the report and verify

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[quote name='Bunghole' post='238096' date='Mar 24 2006, 09:20 PM']Lawman, are you anti-Semitic?[/quote]

No. But I am anti-MSM (Main stream media) :D .

A little confused right now, but slowly trying to put things in perspective.

I know that after Jesus was crucified there was a division between Paul and James (brother of jesus).

Paul ministered toward the Gentiles (as directed by Jesus) while James wanted to preserve Jewish rituals.

It came to head with Peter steppining in as an arbritrator. Paul had an individual for conversion, James

wanted him to be circumcised. Peter ruled that the gentiles did not need to heed Jewish traditions.

there is a split here as I am finding out there is now in the Jewish religon; True Torah vs Zionist.

I have a thesis that Hitler (maybe Muhommad) were envoy's sent by god to punish the Jews.

look, Isreal is translated as "one who fights with God".

Isreal was not to be a state until God says it is time (in the Christian religion this would be the 2nd coming of

Christ setting up a New Jerusalem has his Kingdom).

The bottom, they the Jews, were not to setup a state in Isreal. Contrary to my earlier beliefs.

There was a prophecy, I have posted before that was missinterpeted:

The word "holocaust" means [b]burnt offering[/b]: "Amongst different animal offerings in the Jerusalem shrine there was one that was forbidden to be eaten neither by the donators nor by the priests for it had to be burnt entirely. The Hebrew word for this offering was [u]'ola' (literally translated: climbing up). [/u] The Greek translation of the Torah used the word [b]'holocauston' (entirely burnt) instead[/b]. The 'ola' was, as long as offerings were in effect and practised, the highest expression of total devotion to God." [Yehuda Radday in "The Parliament", the official government weekly paper, Bonn, nr. 5, May 24, 1977, p. 19]

[b]For the permission to return to the Promised Land, God allegedly demanded from them a "6-Million-Holocaust-Offering", so the high priests interpreted a Torah prophecy that reads: "You shall return" (due to a spelling mistake the priests interpret it this way "You shall return, minus 6 million")[/b]


In fact, Jewish organisations proclaimed already in 1919 a "6 million-holocaust", taking place in the Ukraine: "Six million men and women are dying; eight-hundred-thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the law of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life ..." [The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, Nbr. 582]

[b]Since the global political situation was such, that the founding of the state of Israel was not possible, the whole "6 million" idea of 1919 was simply put on ice.[/b]

Those "6 million", which must allegedly missing in order to return to the "Promised Land", is said to be Yaweh's way of cleansing the Jewish souls of all sins, since a return of sinful and unclean souls is not permitted. The cleansing of the "chosen" souls was to be administered in "burning ovens": "God said: Could I forget the holocaust-victims? Rabbi Tanchum, Chanilias son said: [u]In the hour, when Hananja, Misael and Asarja stepped out of the burning ovens, the people of the world came together to strike the haters of Israel in the face."[/u] [The Talmud, Goldmann Publishers, Munich 1980, pages 138, 225]

Are we now to understand, that "6 million" had to disappear in the "burning ovens" of Auschwitz (who quiet possibly stepped out of them again, as the Talmud says and as Moshe Peer describes his survival of six gassing procedures at Bergen Belsen albeit Belsen had [u]no gas chambers[/u]),

alot of questions to be answered you see.

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Why would God send envoys to punish the Jews?

In addition to the True Torah vs. Zionist, how do you account for the Jewish people who slot into the Reform and Conservative sects. (besides the Orthodox sect as well)

By the way, I'm not Jewish, but I find some of your stuff borderline anti-semitic. And considering there are some Jewish posters on this board, a little tact might be useful with regards to thread titles and such. But that's just my personal opinion.
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Lawman-

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
I refuse to believe that a merciful God would allow the pretext for jewish extermination you're investigating.
jews are the Biblical Holy People, and the evil-doers simultaneously, hence redemption.
What are you trying to prove?




I thought you supported our F-16 sales to them..... ;)

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[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='238122' date='Mar 24 2006, 10:11 PM']Why would God send envoys to punish the Jews?

In addition to the True Torah vs. Zionist, how do you account for the Jewish people who slot into the Reform and Conservative sects. (besides the Orthodox sect as well)

By the way, I'm not Jewish, but I find some of your stuff borderline anti-semitic. And considering there are some Jewish posters on this board, a little tact might be useful with regards to thread titles and such.[/quote]

You are proposing that I have grouped all Jews together. I do not think I have. I am trying to understand

what are the differences and how did it become that way.I have claimed that my resources have been

derived from various sources. here's a link: [url="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/"]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/[/url]

I have been programmed as a youth to believe certain things to be true (Hitler was an atheist), in my

latter years I have uncovered non-truths. [u]What I have stumbled onto is disturbing to myself.[/u]

Do I simply turn away because I do not want to believe?

People know what this portion GB is about.

Title thread: A FACTUAL APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY [u]THE RED CROSS[/u]

This is a forum, you bring something to the table and discuss, you can choose to partake or not.

[b]It's very simple[/b]
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Guest BlackJesus
[b]Lawman .... as you know I think that Jesus and the Bible is all fictional bullshit ...


but to play along ....




[color="#3333FF"]you are saying that God would send his only begotten son "who was a Jew" knowing all along that he would die and be denied "by Jews" and then knowing that 2,000 years later .... God would send Hitler "A catholic christian" to punish the Jews for denying Jesus ..... even though the Jews denial was what supposedly allows Christians the chance for salvation ....


Shouldn't Christians be thanking Jews for denying Jesus ??? without their betrayal .... none of us recieve salvation ? [/b] [/color]
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