AN APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS.

[Guest steggyD]

Interesting info. I'm going to have to store this in the back of my head. Did you read through the opinions at the bottom of that link Lawman? Some good stuff there.

[Guest steggyD]

I seriously doubt that "God" sent anybody to kill anybody, but I'm sure we can find some other connections. Aren't Muslims just another one of the original tribes, which were foretold to feud into the future.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='238133' date='Mar 24 2006, 10:38 PM']Lawman-

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
I refuse to believe that a merciful God would allow the pretext for jewish extermination you're investigating.
jews are the Biblical Holy People, and the evil-doers simultaneously, hence redemption.
What are you trying to prove?[/quote]

Bung,

I must of been posting when you were. When it came to jews, I was ignorant, to me all Jews were the same

meaning by in their "belief's". Now I am seeing that's not true. First look at this:

[img]http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/images/europefreespeech.jpg[/img]

No one has provided me feedback on this. This a political issue. It is against the Law in Europe to "deny the
Holocaust" Why? People are in jail now because of this Law. Aren't those countries suppose to be Democratic?

on the religous aspect:

"Jesus said (to the Jews): 'You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies'."

John 8, 43-44

This is from Torah Jews, [b]NOT ME[/b]
To The Torah True Jews Adolf Hitler was an [u]envoy[/u] of God, sent to punish the Jews for their sins: "IT IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT ALL THE SAGES AND SAINTS IN EUROPE AT THE TIME OF HITLER'S RISE DECLARED THAT HE WAS A MESSENGER OF DIVINE WRATH, SENT TO CHASTEN THE JEWS BECAUSE OF THE BITTER [u]APOSTASY OF ZIONISM AGAINST THE BELIEF IN THE EVENTUAL MESSIANIC REDEMPTION[/u]."

Where am i going? A close to truth as I can get Everything must be taken into consideration.

I am actually refraining from one little explosive disclosure.

[quote]I thought you supported our F-16 sales to them..... [/quote]

it's funny you say that; I was reviewing something today that showed how much we give to Isreal per year.
I can't remember off hand but it was astounding. I'll get back to you on that.

In closing, I give you this: [url="http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/religion/ah_jc_en.htm"]http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/religion/ah_jc_en.htm[/url]

[Lawman]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='238139' date='Mar 24 2006, 10:49 PM'][b]Lawman .... as you know I think that Jesus and the Bible is all fictional bullshit ...


but to play along ....




[color="#3333FF"]you are saying that God would send his only begotten son "who was a Jew" knowing all along that he would die and be denied "by Jews" and then knowing that 2,000 years later .... God would send Hitler "A catholic christian" to punish the Jews for denying Jesus ..... even though the Jews denial was what supposedly allows Christians the chance for salvation ....


Shouldn't Christians be thanking Jews for denying Jesus ??? without their betrayal .... none of us recieve salvation ? [/b] [/color][/quote]

Yes
We do not understand, why "religious Judaism" [1] hates Jesus Christ as much as Adolf Hitler. The Redeemer of Christianity, if one looks upon it more exactly, is hated even more than Adolf Hitler. Jesus Christ, not Hitler, according to Talmudic curses (which often are taken, mistakenly, as religious prayers), is [u]boiling in Hell in a vat of excrement[/u]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]I only wish that Lawman would devote this much time to looking into the staging of 9/11 and forget all the fables about flying fig tree cursing carpenter man Gods ? [/b]

[Lawman]

[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='238135' date='Mar 24 2006, 10:43 PM']Like I said, it was just [b]my personal opinion[/b]. You are completely free to do and think as you please.[/quote]

Thank you.

[Lawman]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='238153' date='Mar 24 2006, 11:08 PM'][b]I only wish that Lawman would devote this much time to looking into the staging of 9/11 and forget all the fables about flying fig tree cursing carpenter man Gods ? [/b] [/quote]

shit, I almost fellout when I Heard Charlie Sheen talking to Alex Jones, I was awaiting for a cameo
appearance by Jeff Rense.

You know I reported to the Pentagon 6 months after 9/11.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='238153' date='Mar 24 2006, 11:08 PM'][b]I only wish that Lawman would devote this much time to looking into the staging of 9/11 and forget all the fables about flying fig tree cursing carpenter man Gods ? [/b] [/quote]
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick....so we attacked ourselves to initiate an illegitimate war for corporate gain? Do i have it about right?

[Lawman]

[quote name='steggyD' post='238141' date='Mar 24 2006, 10:52 PM']I seriously doubt that "God" sent anybody to kill anybody, but I'm sure we can find some other connections. Aren't Muslims just another one of the original tribes, which were foretold to feud into the future.[/quote]

Steggy,
I didn't say Hitler was envoy to "Kill", I said punish "expose to the world as liars".

To tie in with what bung said about extermination and about chosen people, from the best of my understanding:

as much as the Jews have pissed god off; we 'inhabitants of the earth" are not to harm them. God will do it.

The Bible and History has shown this with their capture and bondage by the egyptians, babylonians, romans
and a few others I can't think of off hand (early tribes I believe).

From what I have researched, they weren't exterminated as we are to believe. I have presented evidence

for the need (to show) 6 million Jews dying in a Holocauston (Greek: for Burnt Offering).

The Torah True Jews have accused the Zionist Jews of lying to god through a missinterpeted prophecy.


I am not sure if you are refering to the Musims as one of the 12 Original tribes of Isreal. I know,
someone ( I think it was the disciples) were forbidden to go east of Nod (wherever that is) unsure.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='238161' date='Mar 24 2006, 11:24 PM'][quote name='BlackJesus' post='238153' date='Mar 24 2006, 11:08 PM']
[b]I only wish that Lawman would devote this much time to looking into the staging of 9/11 and forget all the fables about flying fig tree cursing carpenter man Gods ? [/b] [/quote]
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick....so we attacked ourselves to initiate an illegitimate war for corporate gain? Do i have it about right?

[/quote]

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick

Can we get one of this in an emoticon.

[Lawman]

Once last thing I want to share with you before I go to bed;

all through these post the number 144,000 has been going through my mind

in Revelations ( I am too tired to look upto look up thje chapter and verse), 144,000 will be raised up before

tribulations. Could these be the Torah true jews? I dunno. goodnight all.

[BengalSIS]

Religion and all it's trappings is useless to me. It's 100,000 times worse than trying to figure out my income taxes in two countries.

Screw all of it. I love people. I will love and trust and respect all people until they do something to lose that respect. How freakin hard is that?

Believe what you want and I will not try to change your mind. Do not push beliefs on me or I will turn away from you unless you are in need.

Why can't everybody just get along and use our time on Earth for more productive things than arguing over shit that has been mistranslated, misquoted, and used more for personal gain that any good.

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238263' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:56 AM'][b]Believe what you want and I will not try to change your mind. Do not push beliefs on me or I will turn away from you unless you are in need. [/b]

Why can't everybody just get along and use our time on Earth for more productive things than arguing over shit that has been mistranslated, misquoted, and used more for personal gain that any good.[/quote]


I would say that is one of the biggest things for me as well. I really don't care what anyone believes, but just long as they aren't trying to push beliefs on anyone else (not just me) and that they let me believe what I want. Maybe it is my upbringing, but I think there is probably some value in everyones beliefs and we can all learn from them, but nobodys beliefs are right or correct for everybody else.

I can't say that I really know anyone on this board, but I would like to believe that I would help anyone of you out in a jam.

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='238263' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:56 AM']Religion and all it's trappings is useless to me. It's 100,000 times worse than trying to figure out my income taxes in two countries.[/quote]

Okay Sis,

This is a totally unrelated question, but your first sentence got me really curious for some reason. I'm guessing that you have dual citizenship in both countries. Does that mean you have to pay taxes in both countries, or is it more like when someone moves from Colorado to Montana and you only have to pay in both places for the one year you are a resident in both?

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='238277' date='Mar 25 2006, 12:36 PM'][quote name='BengalSIS' post='238263' date='Mar 25 2006, 09:56 AM']
Religion and all it's trappings is useless to me. It's 100,000 times worse than trying to figure out my income taxes in two countries.[/quote]

Okay Sis,

This is a totally unrelated question, but your first sentence got me really curious for some reason. I'm guessing that you have dual citizenship in both countries. Does that mean you have to pay taxes in both countries, or is it more like when someone moves from Colorado to Montana and you only have to pay in both places for the one year you are a resident in both?
[/quote]


Sorry to hijack everyone, but....

I have to FILE in both places. I have to PAY in Canada. I have a "foreign income exclusion" for the states. So as long as I don't make more than $70,000 US (this figure can change each year), I don't have to pay any taxes to the US. This will only be a problem for me if the Canadian dollar continues to gain ground on the US dollar. Right now I sit comfortably below that level. Well, technically, I'm unemployed, but my previous employment before being layed off wasn't that high, and my new job starting in april is under that.

If I were to make any money from US sources, I would have to pay US taxes on that.

[Guest #22]

Lawman, I work at a Holocaust Center.
I am not the most pro-israeli person on the face of the earth, as most of you probably know.

This article is a travesty and is, quite frankly, sickening.

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='#22' post='238331' date='Mar 25 2006, 03:16 PM']Lawman, I work at a Holocaust Center.
I am not the most pro-israeli person on the face of the earth, as most of you probably know.

This article is a travesty and is, quite frankly, sickening.[/quote]

knowing your views on israel......



this post goes a long way for me... thanks for adding your input...

[Lawman]

[quote name='#22' post='238331' date='Mar 25 2006, 03:16 PM']Lawman, I work at a Holocaust Center.
I am not the most pro-israeli person on the face of the earth, as most of you probably know.

This article is a travesty and is, quite frankly, sickening.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. But do we turn away and ignore what we do not want to believe.

Actually, this started for me a couple months ago.

I still hold skepticism, however when I discovered the True Torah Jews vs Zionism;

1+1+1=3 evertime I tried to add up came up 3. Three various sites.

Here is a serious question that keeps me steadfast:

Why would Germany, fighting a war on two fronts...with fuel scarce...short of all resources...ship millions of Jews by railroad...hundreds and thousands of miles...to camps specially built just to hold them...feed them...clothe them...[b]tattoo them in order to keep track of them[/b]....just to KILL them?

I am merely asking questions, unlike most tha thave replied to this post; I have reviewed the whole site's of the links I have provided. If one would go to the link of the post i have provided, one will see there is a blog of comments and reply's

I assume that you arefully aware of the other Holocaust (with Holocaust the inappropriate word since it is derived from the Greek Word Holocauston meaning "totaly burnt" and the japenese just cut off the heads of the Chinese and did not really burn them).

[url="http://www.gotrain.com/dan/nanking1.htm"]http://www.gotrain.com/dan/nanking1.htm[/url]

Nanking Massacre:
the Forgotten Holocaust

During their occupation of China, the Japanese killed at least [b]fifteen million [/b] Chinese soldiers and civilians.

[Lawman]

I am googleing Red Cross with advance search on the word "Holocaust"

[url="http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm"]http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm[/url]

No Holocaust Order Ever Given
The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no attempt made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were seized in the U.S. Zone of occupation alone. British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in his biography of Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then, anything like a written order signed by Hitler for the extermination of the Jews in Europe."

Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean, then owned by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have been located providing a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing a Jewish homeland on the island of Madagascar. Plans were made for the reimbursement of the 25,000 French citizens who lived there. Even the government of France studied the plan. Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for a Jewish state. He also considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to the Gaza Strip, and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted Palestine.

The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document on the solution to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in regard to the Jews is the emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old Reich."

In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German leadership supported this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the question of Madagascar. Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a witness assures us. After the armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France), the idea was propounded by the Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as well as by Hitler himself."

For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the Central Office for Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war began, this was no longer possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as enemy aliens and deported them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler said: "[u]The Jews must leave Europe. The best thing is that they go to Russia." [/u]

[b]Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In March 1942 Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese men, women and children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed guard towers in the blazing hot desert. [/b]

[Guest bengalrick]

lawman, you threw alot of information out in your first post, and all of it is quoted text... maybe you should lay out your personal views of what you think happened, in a more organized post... therefore, people can disect the thinking better... i'll tell you one thing ahead of time, it will be hard to beat all the stories, documentation, and evidence that has mounted in the time since the holocaust, so you have a hell of an up hill battle...

one thing i want to point out though... you keep saying: [i]Why would Germany, fighting a war on two fronts...with fuel scarce...short of all resources...ship millions of Jews by railroad...hundreds and thousands of miles...to camps specially built just to hold them...feed them...clothe them...tattoo them in order to keep track of them....just to KILL them? [/i]

hitler made it very well known that he believed in solely an "aryan race", so why he wouldn't use jews as soldiers or let them prosper in business, as the war goes on... hate is uncontrollable, and it is well known that hitler was mentally ill along w/ having absolute control of the third reich... it is not a stretch to think that his hate would lead him to totally discount the jews to help him economically or on the war front... he had no respect for their lives...

to go further in this statement of yours, the second part is also easily explained... it actually explains the first part imo... instead of using them as soldiers, he made them into slaves, helping their war front by working... if they didn't work, they were killed... if they couldn't work, they were killed... if they died in anyway, they were cremated...

[Guest #22]

[quote]Why would Germany, fighting a war on two fronts...with fuel scarce...short of all resources...ship millions of Jews by railroad...hundreds and thousands of miles...to camps specially built just to hold them...feed them...clothe them...tattoo them in order to keep track of them....just to KILL them?[/quote]
The Nazi's original intent wasn't to destory all of the Jews. It was to get them out of Europe (especially Germany), or, barring that, to seperate them from the rest of the society.

These concentration camps also had HUGE (I've heard the facilities at Auschwitz described as the size of 2 GE Plants) forced labor centers, where the Jews were making a lot of the supplies used by the Nazi war machine.

Also, (to a lesser extent), Nazi doctors persuaded the ignorant leader Adolf Hitler that modern science required more data in the way of racial science.
There is an excellent exhibit on this here:
[url="http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/"]http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/[/url]


Operation Reinhard began in 1942 as a result of the Wannsee Conference, when the Nazi brass (who were already losing the war on both fronts at this time) decided to exterminate all of the Jews.

here is an excellent site for reference.
www.holocaust-history.org

[Guest #22]

[quote name='Lawman' post='238383' date='Mar 25 2006, 04:21 PM']I am googleing Red Cross with advance search on the word "Holocaust"

[url="http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm"]http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm[/url]
The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no attempt made to destroy wartime records

[b]Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of Japanese descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In March 1942 Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese men, women and children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed guard towers in the blazing hot desert. [/b][/quote]
[size=4]
Lawman, the site that had this is www.stormfront.org. I urge [b]all of you[/b] to visit this page [u]immediately[/u]. That should immediately discredit these lies.
[/size]

As for your first point, historians A.J.P. Taylor and and Karl Dietrich Bracher (far more important figures than Mr. Cross), as well as the German Government, have noted that the Germans destroyed many of their wartime records. I have heard one of America's interviewers for the Nuremburg trial say the same thing.
Think of this: Why would the Germans leave behind such an indicting record to the Russians and the Americans? Nazi clerks and soldiers, if not the higher ups, would have been frantically trying to destroy all of the records left behind to avoid reprcussions.

This last point, which you chose to bold, is really upsetting. Roger Daniels, a local historian who is largely credited for bringing the Internment into the public eye, admits that while the internment of Japanese-Americans was shameful (and threatened civil liberty), it was nothing compared to the atrocity of the Holocaust. Forcible internment is different from Ethnic Cleansing.


Also, where did you come up with the number of 15 Million for the Japanese Occupation?

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='#22' post='238474' date='Mar 25 2006, 05:32 PM'][url="http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/"]http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/deadlymedicine/[/url]


www.holocaust-history.org[/quote]


Just looking at these, the both look like really good sites. I would check out the [i]revisionism[/i] link under denial. Just my 2 cents.

[Lawman]

[quote]lawman, you threw alot of information out in your first post, and all of it is quoted text... maybe you should lay out your personal views of what you think happened, in a more organized post... therefore, people can disect the thinking better... i'll tell you one thing ahead of time, it will be hard to beat all the stories, documentation, and evidence that has mounted in the time since the holocaust, so you have a hell of an up hill battle...[/quote]

BR,

Great idea;My sonhas been playing in a Baseball Tournament this weekend that has kept me away.
Didn't get home until 11:30 last night.

Getting gready to head out now. I should have time later tonight.

"Victors write History"

[Guest Coy Bacon]

My jury is out on Holocaust revisionism. I'm glad to see that people are getting hip to the arguments of True-Torah and other anti-Zionist and non-Zionist Jews. The machinations of the Zionists and the uncritical attitude that they've been able to leverage on their behalf from the Western information establishment beg to be considered in evaluating the claims of Holocaust revisionists. I can't say that these guys' arguments will hold up in the end, but their claims tend to be misrepresented and are not necessarily as outlandish as the Zionists and those with broader agendas that find the Zionists useful would have us think.