AN APPRAISAL OF THE "HOLOCAUST" BY THE RED CROSS.

[Guest Coy Bacon]

[quote name='#22' post='240138' date='Mar 28 2006, 11:11 PM'][quote]
Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about the numerous true holocausts of Gentiles during this century such as:

[b]The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15 million exterminated! [/b]

The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved to death.

The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million perished.

The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million slaughtered.

Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.

[b]What I have bolded; I have found elsewhere.[/b]

[i]No one has corrected me on the fact that the word Holocauston is Greek for "totally burnt".[/i]

I am asking a question here; is this not true?[/quote]
None of these were under eugenic policies.

The Holocaust was first used to refer to the troubles in the 30's and 40's because of its religious significance ot a group of people trying to cope with being targeted and destroyed for their race.

Your idea of a global jewish media conspiracy sounds like an Protocols of the Elders of Zion rant.
with [b]The Holocaust[/b], you had 11-20 million people being systematically killed because of their ethnic (and, in few a cases, sexual and religious) orientations.
evidently you never visited www.holocaust-history.org

Here is a good one you forgot:
Native Americans by Europeans/U.S. (1492-1900) - almost 100 Million people killed.
[/quote]


The Protocols, forgery that they are, echo the ideas of revolutionary groups of the mid 19th century. There were people thinking like that, even if the Protocols themselves were a put-up job. Reading the Jewish references in the Protocols literally is generally the province of the most superficial debunkers or wack jobs in pointy hats. While the hofjuden may have played a significant role in the machinations of the power elite, it is an easy matter to understand that the Machiavellian designs described by the Protocols represent the thinking of a more far reaching element than literal Jews - even the conniving Ashkenazi Finno-Turkish imposters, as some would describe them.

Jewish influence and complicity within the media, banking, academic and at times governmental sectors seems hardly debatable, but I hardly see it as a matter of universal participation on the part of the Jewish masses, nor a matter of purely conscious design rather than defensive reaction. The system binds participants to itself via rewards, threats, sanctions and manipulation of interests.

There are important "Jews in name only" that represent key nodes in the power matrix, like the principles in the House of Rothschild, but I don't see them as being the apex of power. The masses of Jews are like the masses of the United States - sheep being led around by fear and prejudice when they're not becoming conscious to one extent or another and getting pissed off at the powers that be like they ought to be.

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM'][quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?

[Guest #22]

to respond to your E-Mail, Montana Bengal (b/c I'm too lazy to make a message over it):
In my younger days, I was an obsessive San Francisco Giants fan, and, being left-handed, really liked 1B Will Clark (#22).
p.s. what's montana like?


BACK ON TOPIC:

to clarify things:
I am not Jewish. I am, in fact, parts German and misc. I don't really like my job, but I like money. I also like the truth to be preserved over everything else.
You can search over my posts for my clear (and, at times, rabid) anti-Israeli sentiments.
I have no real stake in this argument, but "the most superficial debunkers or wack jobs in pointy hats" seem to be showing themselves here (bless its pointed little head - 2 in the morning).

I realize that I should be spending my collective efforts on Lawman, sense he started this nonsense, but I don't want to wait in vain for his love. I'm more of an instant gratification kind of guy.

unfortunately, "[i]Jewish influence[/i] and complcity" is too soft of a term to attack. Every group in the United States, be they Lutherans or Lesbians, have some kind of influence in the "power centers" of this Country.
I would also be the first to admit that the Jewish people in this country probably have a heavy per capita rate of control in the media and elsewhere, but this is true for more historical and class reasons than anything else.

It's funny that you would mention banking as well, because the Jews got their start in that industry back in the Middle Ages, when they could morally lend Christians money and vice versa, but no lending of money could occur between Christians or between Jews because of some Biblical injuctive bullshit. Anyway, as soon as a local figure of prestige took out quite a bit of money, the local Jews always seemed to get blamed for poisoning wells, killing christ, etc. and they were run out of town, leaving the prince/noble with a meaningless IOU and quite a bit of money.
European Jews would simultaneously become rich one day and scapegoats the next, with the occurences of blame coming far more often than the times when they would hit the jackpot.

[|Montana Bengal|]

[quote name='Lawman' post='239880' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:22 PM'][i]No one has corrected me on the fact that the word Holocauston is Greek for "totally burnt".[/i]

I am asking a question here; is this not true?[/quote]

Sorry that it isn't exacly Holocauston. I don't know Greek. To be not helpful at all, I randomly bolded things because it sometimes seems as if posts need bold things to be significant. So you may find them helpful, maybe not.

Here is a definition of Holocaust from a etymology [url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=holocaust&searchmode=none"]site[/url]: c.1250, "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering," from Gk. [b]holokauston, neut. of holokaustos "burned whole," from holos "whole"[/b] (see safe (adj.)) + kaustos, verbal adj. of kaiein "to burn." Originally a Bible word for [b]"burnt offerings," [/b] given wider sense of "massacre, destruction of a large number of persons" from 1833. The Holocaust "Nazi genocide of European Jews in World War II," first recorded 1957, earlier known in Heb. as Shoah "catastrophe." The word itself was used in Eng. in ref. to Hitler's Jewish policies from 1942, but not as a proper name for them.

[b]And I did a google search on Holocaust brought up many definitions, but here are two. (I didn't post the links, being tired tonight).[/b]

1. Holocaust: From the Greek: [b]"holos" (completely) and "kaustos" (burned sacrificial offering).[/b] When capitalized, the term usually refers to the Shoah, (a.k.a. Shoa and Sho'ah) the killing of five to seven million of European Jews by the Nazi government during World War II. Sometimes used to refer to the total Nazi extermination program, which included Jews, Roma (a.k.a Gypsies), Russians, Poles, other Slavs, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. totaling ten to fourteen million humans. The Roma refer to the event as the Porajmos (devouring).

2. Holocaust The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, [b]meaning complete destruction[/b], usually by fire. [b]By the end of the 17th century, the word came to mean a great slaughter or massacre.[/b] It is now used to describe the genocide against the Jews in Europe by the Nazis.

[Lawman]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240212' date='Mar 29 2006, 02:31 AM'][quote name='Lawman' post='239880' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:22 PM']

[i]No one has corrected me on the fact that the word Holocauston is Greek for "totally burnt".[/i]

I am asking a question here; is this not true?[/quote]

Sorry that it isn't exacly Holocauston. I don't know Greek. To be not helpful at all, I randomly bolded things because it sometimes seems as if posts need bold things to be significant. So you may find them helpful, maybe not.

Here is a definition of Holocaust from a etymology [url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=holocaust&searchmode=none"]site[/url]: c.1250, "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering," from Gk. [b]holokauston, neut. of holokaustos "burned whole," from holos "whole"[/b] (see safe (adj.)) + kaustos, verbal adj. of kaiein "to burn." Originally a Bible word for [b]"burnt offerings," [/b] given wider sense of "massacre, destruction of a large number of persons" from 1833. The Holocaust "Nazi genocide of European Jews in World War II," first recorded 1957, earlier known in Heb. as Shoah "catastrophe." The word itself was used in Eng. in ref. to Hitler's Jewish policies from 1942, but not as a proper name for them.

[b]And I did a google search on Holocaust brought up many definitions, but here are two. (I didn't post the links, being tired tonight).[/b]

1. Holocaust: From the Greek: [b]"holos" (completely) and "kaustos" (burned sacrificial offering).[/b] When capitalized, the term usually refers to the Shoah, (a.k.a. Shoa and Sho'ah) the killing of five to seven million of European Jews by the Nazi government during World War II. Sometimes used to refer to the total Nazi extermination program, which included Jews, Roma (a.k.a Gypsies), Russians, Poles, other Slavs, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. totaling ten to fourteen million humans. The Roma refer to the event as the Porajmos (devouring).

2. Holocaust The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, [b]meaning complete destruction[/b], usually by fire. [b]By the end of the 17th century, the word came to mean a great slaughter or massacre.[/b] It is now used to describe the genocide against the Jews in Europe by the Nazis.
[/quote]

Thanks

[Lawman]

[quote]I think someone ought to quit pussy footin around here and come
out of the closet[/quote].
Ok sneaky,
You got me, I am a Martyr,

on Mar 24th, in the "Good thing we brought "freedom" to Afghanistan, man facing death for converting to Christianity"
I posted this: Martyr-1.n. someone who suffers death than renounce his faith. 2. v.t. to put to death for refusing to renounce the faith // to inflict great suffering upon.

Adding: I have been reading two books with stories of Christian Martyr's.

Most stories derive from Communist Russia and Communist China and various Islamic countries,

One book is called: Jesus Freaks, list of accounts of Christian martyrs throughout history
(I'll provide examples later)

The other Book is called: Torture for Christ, Voices OF Martyers. 30th Anniversary Edition, 1998.

The definition of the greek word for martyr is "witness". (I don't have my reference material with me so I will clarify later), but to stay on topic. I am refering to a martyr [witness] for the cause.

The author of this book, Pastor Richard Wurmbrand spent 14 1/2 years in a Romanian Prison because he was a Christian, Richard Wurmbrand was born a Romanian Jew. He was held and beaten by the Nazis because he was a Protestant Minister; what the Nazi's did (beat him) was in mild comparison to what sadistic torture was committed by the Communist. He was rescued by a Christian Doctor, who got into the Secret Police and found him. Christian donors paid $10,000.00 for his ransom (a common practice with the Romanians selling their citizens).

Remember, I posted this:

The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) - 15 million exterminated!

Under the regimes of the Communist ([b]still going on today[/b]), more Christians have been tortured and murdered than the Jews in Nazi Germany.

Look up Stalin's family lineage.

I am leaving off here, I am at work and distractions prevent me from going into depth and detail at this time, but I leave with this:

The Holocaust was a [u]horrible ordeal for all involved [/u] (Jewish victims/some in the unknowing German population that were going to feel the reprucussion in times to come). But, IMHO the Holocaust (not to be forgotten) has prevented full exposure of what has happened to Christians in the world today in both Communist and Islamic countries. I am curious as to know what was going on behind the scenes with the incident in Afghanistan with the Conversion of the man to Christianity.

[Lawman]

[quote]I am curious as to know what was going on behind the scenes with the incident in Afghanistan with the Conversion of the man to Christianity[/quote]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[b]This site has a good breakdown of American Jewish groups .... who are against Zionism and some of the brutal policies of Israel ....

Also of note it talks about how Likud (Israels CIA) intimidates Jews who speak out against them ....


[url="http://www.againstbombing.com/peacegroups.htm"]http://www.againstbombing.com/peacegroups.htm[/url]



= This isn't related to the Holocaust really (I actually believe that holocaust did happen to the Jews in Europe along with many of the other groups killed (retarded, dwarfs, gays, mentally ill, gypsies etc)

But I think it is good also to realize that there is a difference betwen "Jews" and "Zionist Jews" [/b]

[Lawman]

[quote]This isn't related to the Holocaust really (I actually believe that holocaust did happen to the Jews in Europe along with many of the other groups killed (retarded, [u]dwarfs,[/u] gays, [u]mentally ill,[/u] gypsies etc)[/quote]

I was watching the History Channel. The show was on seven Dwarf family member's (Romania Jews, I believe) whom were muscicans. Josef Mengele got ahold of them and subjected them to various test.

Additionally, that spoke of sterilization of the less desirables as not to infect the Arayan race.

[quote]As for your first point, historians A.J.P. Taylor and and Karl Dietrich Bracher (far more important figures than Mr. Cross), as well as the German Government, have noted that the Germans destroyed many of their wartime records. I have heard one of America's interviewers for the Nuremburg trial say the same thing.
Think of this: Why would the Germans leave behind such an indicting record to the Russians and the Americans? Nazi clerks and soldiers, if not the higher ups, would have been frantically trying to destroy all of the records left behind to avoid reprcussions.[/quote]

On the shows, rows and rows of cabinets of captured documents were displayed and they brought up a document on one of the Dwarf family members. At the bottom of the document, it was signed by Mengele;
he was conducting blood-work on this family member.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240204' date='Mar 29 2006, 01:33 AM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?
[/quote]


I always hate this question because its most of the time used as a set up to show that if you believe that, how is that love? But I dont view it that way, if one believes that to be true wouldnt the ultimate form of love to be the desire to see your fellow man with you on the other side? So rather than me answer it Ill just refer to what Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6).

Now back to our reguarly scheuled program on the holocaust....

[Lawman]

[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240204' date='Mar 29 2006, 01:33 AM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?
[/quote]

As a nontheist, you very well know that the correct answer would be silence or non-response, so I offer this:

When the doctor arrived to remove the arrow, the man grabbed the doctor's hand and asked, "Before you start treating me, Doctor, tell me, who was it that shot me? Was he of warrior class or some other class? Was he tall or was he short? Was he young or was he old? Was he dark skinned or light skinned?" The doctor ignored the questions and removed the arrow. Had he taken the time to answer the questions, the patient would have died. For this reason, said the Buddha, I will not answer your question about God. If I did, you would just spend your time in endless speculation, and never awaken from your current state.

wanna dance

[BengalSIS]

[quote name='Lawman' post='240318' date='Mar 29 2006, 10:51 AM'][quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240204' date='Mar 29 2006, 01:33 AM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?
[/quote]

As a nontheist, you very well know that the correct answer would be silence or non-response, so I offer this:

When the doctor arrived to remove the arrow, the man grabbed the doctor's hand and asked, "Before you start treating me, Doctor, tell me, who was it that shot me? Was he of warrior class or some other class? Was he tall or was he short? Was he young or was he old? Was he dark skinned or light skinned?" The doctor ignored the questions and removed the arrow. Had he taken the time to answer the questions, the patient would have died. For this reason, said the Buddha, I will not answer your question about God. If I did, you would just spend your time in endless speculation, and never awaken from your current state.

wanna dance


[/quote]


I think silence, or ignoring that question is avoiding the very thoughts that would lend itself to the "truth" people are looking for. I see it as avoiding the hard questions and only looking at the information that gives you the answer you want.

[Lawman]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='240323' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:05 AM'][quote name='Lawman' post='240318' date='Mar 29 2006, 10:51 AM']
[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240204' date='Mar 29 2006, 01:33 AM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?
[/quote]

As a nontheist, you very well know that the correct answer would be silence or non-response, so I offer this:

When the doctor arrived to remove the arrow, the man grabbed the doctor's hand and asked, "Before you start treating me, Doctor, tell me, who was it that shot me? Was he of warrior class or some other class? Was he tall or was he short? Was he young or was he old? Was he dark skinned or light skinned?" The doctor ignored the questions and removed the arrow. Had he taken the time to answer the questions, the patient would have died. For this reason, said the Buddha, I will not answer your question about God. If I did, you would just spend your time in endless speculation, and never awaken from your current state.

wanna dance


[/quote]


I think silence, or ignoring that question is avoiding the very thoughts that would lend itself to the "truth" people are looking for. I see it as avoiding the hard questions and only looking at the information that gives you the answer you want.
[/quote]

BengalSiS,

please read up on Nontheism,

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='BengalSIS' post='240323' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:05 AM'][quote name='Lawman' post='240318' date='Mar 29 2006, 10:51 AM']
[quote name='Montana Bengal' post='240204' date='Mar 29 2006, 01:33 AM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='239818' date='Mar 28 2006, 10:45 AM']
[quote name='BengalSIS' post='239811' date='Mar 28 2006, 12:37 PM']
I don't fear or hate Christians. Quite the opposite. I don't fear or hate ANYONE because of their faith. As individuals who might do things I feel is wrong...maybe.

As for finding the truth. By all means, have at it. I just think life and the bettering of mankind is more important than finding out how we got here. Again, that's just my opinion, and it changes from time to time. I have nothing against those who believe differently. But I DON'T like being told how I'm supposed to live by others. Separation of church and state is a must for me.[/quote]


Im certianly not going to tell anyone how they should live. It wouldnt be very christian of me...free will and all. But like I said, it's about sharing the joy. Seperation of church and state is a whole other issue.
[/quote]


Just a random question. So if I'm not a Christian, but I am a Buddist. Do you believe that I will be going to hell?
[/quote]

As a nontheist, you very well know that the correct answer would be silence or non-response, so I offer this:

When the doctor arrived to remove the arrow, the man grabbed the doctor's hand and asked, "Before you start treating me, Doctor, tell me, who was it that shot me? Was he of warrior class or some other class? Was he tall or was he short? Was he young or was he old? Was he dark skinned or light skinned?" The doctor ignored the questions and removed the arrow. Had he taken the time to answer the questions, the patient would have died. For this reason, said the Buddha, I will not answer your question about God. If I did, you would just spend your time in endless speculation, and never awaken from your current state.

wanna dance


[/quote]


I think silence, or ignoring that question is avoiding the very thoughts that would lend itself to the "truth" people are looking for. I see it as avoiding the hard questions and only looking at the information that gives you the answer you want.
[/quote]


Actually for the Buddist his answer is probabally better than mine.

[Guest bengalrick]

that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?

[Lawman]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]

BR,

you have a PM

[Lawman]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='240353' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:49 AM'][quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']
that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?
[/quote]

Jamie B,

You have a PM

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='240353' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:49 AM'][quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']
that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?
[/quote]

i'd love to bust out some prophacy here, but i don't have a certain scripture to quote... but isn't the core principal in christianty, God loves us all the same?

[Lawman]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='240370' date='Mar 29 2006, 12:13 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='240353' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:49 AM']
[quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']
that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?
[/quote]

i'd love to bust out some prophacy here, but i don't have a certain scripture to quote... but isn't the core principal in christianty, God loves us all the same?
[/quote]

Yes, Communist too.

[Lawman]

JamieB,

My apologizes if there were confusion in my PM.

I will bring this forward for all to share and hope it explains, but it can be a little confusing.

[u]No, Jesus is not the same person as the Father.[/u] In the doctrine of the Trinity there are three persons in the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We use the term "person" to describe each of the three because each displays attributes of personhood. Each has a will, speaks, loves, is self aware, and is aware of others. Yet, the Bible teaches that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22). Therefore, the person of the Son is not the same person as the Father. They speak to each other and have their own wills.

Matt. 3:17, "and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.'”

Luke 22:42, "Father, if Thou art willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Thine be done.”

There are, however, [u]Oneness Pentecostal groups who claim that there is only one person in the Godhead: Jesus[/u]. They erringly state that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all the same person, only different in manifestation. This is an error.
The correct doctrine is that there is only one God who is three persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each is not the same person as the other. Yet, there are not three gods, only one.

The error perpertrates from the confusion with Jesus's Dual Divinity.

[Lawman]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='240370' date='Mar 29 2006, 12:13 PM'][quote name='Jamie_B' post='240353' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:49 AM']
[quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']
that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?
[/quote]

i'd love to bust out some prophacy here, but i don't have a certain scripture to quote... but isn't the core principal in christianty, God loves us all the same?
[/quote]

1 John 4

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that [b]we[/b] might live through him.

part of the answer to your previous question.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Lawman' post='240374' date='Mar 29 2006, 12:16 PM'] [quote name='bengalrick' post='240370' date='Mar 29 2006, 12:13 PM']
[quote name='Jamie_B' post='240353' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:49 AM']
[quote name='bengalrick' post='240350' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:46 AM']
that question (and mostly the answer) scares me.... it has shaken my beliefs to the core.... not that i am not a christian or anything anymore, but i am certainly looking for a good way "around" that question... and by around, i mean figuring what i believe to be the truth... i refuse to ignore that key fact, b/c it goes against everything christianity teaches...

i understand the whole "everything comes through me" comment, but that doesn't comfort me, to be honest...[/quote]


Nor does it comfort me, but Jesus said it. Also Im a bit confused as to how it goes against what Christianity teaches?
[/quote]

i'd love to bust out some prophacy here, but i don't have a certain scripture to quote... but isn't the core principal in christianty, God loves us all the same?
[/quote]

Yes, Communist too.
[/quote]




Yes he does, the question is though about loving him in return and how you do so. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//3.gif[/img]

[Guest bengalrick]

what is different from a christian saying: "only those that believe in jesus christ will go to heaven" than a muslim saying: "only those that believe in allah will go to heaven?" who is right? i usually don't believe things unless i can prove it, or i saw it... i can't prove either of these to be true... i can vouch for christianity, that i have witnessed miracles in my life, but is it b/c i'm a christian? what is a similar situation happens to a muslim family in lebanan? did his God help him, or was his just a coincidence and my miracle an act of God? there has to be a bridge between the religions...

another thing, religion is a big problem in todays world... mosly b/c of the divide between islam and christianity... maybe we misinterpretted some things? maybe we were lied to, in the translations of the bible from aramiac to english?

here is my current stance on religion in general... religion is the key to peace... one might say "if we cut religion out of life, things will be better b/c of all the problems religion causes"... i disagree w/ this settiment 100% b/c w/out religion, you cut out alot of engraved morals... imo, the key to the world is finding beliefs that all can agree on... the goal for peace shouldn't be to cut out religion everywhere, but to unite ALL people under one religion... and the current way things are in christianity, this could not happen w/out a shakeup... but wouldn't it be worth it?

i'm not suggesting that it would be possible to unite all people under one religion, but it should be our goal, even if it is an impossible goal... reach for the stars and see how close you can come....

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='240395' date='Mar 29 2006, 12:49 PM']what is different from a christian saying: "only those that believe in jesus christ will go to heaven" than a muslim saying: "only those that believe in allah will go to heaven?" who is right? i usually don't believe things unless i can prove it, or i saw it... i can't prove either of these to be true... i can vouch for christianity, that i have witnessed miracles in my life, but is it b/c i'm a christian? what is a similar situation happens to a muslim family in lebanan? did his God help him, or was his just a coincidence and my miracle an act of God? there has to be a bridge between the religions...

another thing, religion is a big problem in todays world... mosly b/c of the divide between islam and christianity... maybe we misinterpretted some things? maybe we were lied to, in the translations of the bible from aramiac to english?

here is my current stance on religion in general... religion is the key to peace... one might say "if we cut religion out of life, things will be better b/c of all the problems religion causes"... i disagree w/ this settiment 100% b/c w/out religion, you cut out alot of engraved morals... imo, the key to the world is finding beliefs that all can agree on... the goal for peace shouldn't be to cut out religion everywhere, but to unite ALL people under one religion... and the current way things are in christianity, this could not happen w/out a shakeup... but wouldn't it be worth it?

i'm not suggesting that it would be possible to unite all people under one religion, but it should be our goal, even if it is an impossible goal... reach for the stars and see how close you can come....[/quote]

Ill get to this when I have some time, as its pretty busy today...but this idea of people uniting under one religon, is very..."revelations" like.