Guest oldschooler Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 [quote][size=5][b]The Jr impact: Stat from listener Dave [/b] [/size] 1) Reds as a team [b]with [/b] Griffey averaged 7.29 runs per game this year. Without Jr, they have averaged 5.1, a drop of 2.19 runs per game (and this includes 11 and 12 run games w/o Junior). Last 8 games, 4.11 runs per game. 2) Averages of Freel, Lopez, Dunn (regulars at the top of the order most affected by Griffey's presence in the lineup) with and w/o Jr in the lineup: Freel: .438 with Jr, .219 since Lopez: .324 with Jr, .221 since Dunn: .370 with Jr, .212 since[/quote] [url="http://www.lance1360homer.com/blog.asp"]http://www.lance1360homer.com/blog.asp[/url] [quote][size=5][b]Why Freel can't play everyday [/b][/size] Marc Lancaster, Post Wednesday marked the 19th time in 20 games Freel has been in the starting lineup, so he's probably overdue for a rest. In that span, stretching back to the day after Griffey strained the tendon behind his knee, [b]Freel is batting only .216. He hasn't stolen a base since April 18, a span of 13 games.[/b][/quote] [url="http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/SPT05/605040321/1035"]http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../605040321/1035[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest schotzee Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 A healthy Griffey in the lineup is absolutely a + .Anyone that says otherwise,I say is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 that is a glaring difference... griffey simply makes our lineup better... unstoppable might be a better word too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 freel is playing shitty because he needs a day off... hes been an every other day utility player forever and now hes playign every game, give the guy a rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='oldschooler' post='263195' date='May 4 2006, 10:31 AM'][url="http://www.lance1360homer.com/blog.asp"]http://www.lance1360homer.com/blog.asp[/url] [url="http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/SPT05/605040321/1035"]http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../605040321/1035[/url][/quote] its lance, the man is the dumbest mother fucker around. Phillips, Edwin, Aurilias avgs have all increased, along with their production. Why dont we just list the stats that benefit us....Defense has improved since griffey has been hurt. The pitching has been better to, so i guess the lack of Griffey improves our SP.... u cant base this shit over less than a month. The teams been hotter, the SP has been good, and our defense has been much improved. Not to mention Lopez and Phillips have been dominating the base paths now. idk if its actually better with our without, but id rather not have him for the entire season than have him for part of a season and then have to change shit around because he cant stay healthy. Id much rather him be gone and us have 10 million dollars to play with...the lineup is good enough without him and think of how much better this team could be with 10 million to play with. Please dont use Lance Mcallister to argue things. The guy needs to be fired/killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 if griffey can play the rest of the year healthy, then i want him. But i dont want a guy who is gonna play sparingly for us. Either play or retire, quit doing both cuz that doesnt help us. I hope griffey comes back and dominates, but if its not going to be on a consistent basis then i want him gone. i dont think thats too bad of a thought. i own a lot of griffey stuff (seattle and cincinnati) so im not just a griffey hater (i love griffey), i just think its better for the club one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='263595' date='May 4 2006, 08:13 PM']if griffey can play the rest of the year healthy, then i want him. But i dont want a guy who is gonna play sparingly for us. Either play or retire, quit doing both cuz that doesnt help us. I hope griffey comes back and dominates, but if its not going to be on a consistent basis then i want him gone. i dont think thats too bad of a thought. [b] i own a lot of griffey stuff (seattle and cincinnati) so im not just a griffey hater (i love ken (douchbag) griffey), i just think its better for the club one way or the other.[/b][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='263601' date='May 4 2006, 08:19 PM'][/quote] ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 ALRIGHT, i did a little math of my own... Since Griffey has left: Rich Aurilia .346 AVG .407 OBP 3 HRs 6 RBIs 11 Runs 5 Walks out doing what he did with Griffey. Edwin Encarnacion .317 AVG .410 OBP 3 HRs 19 RBIs 14 Runs 10 Walks out doing what he did with Griffey. Austin Kearns .313 AVG .378 OBP 2 HRs 12 RBIs 13 Runs 7 Walks out doing what he did with Griffey. Brandon Phillips .324 AVG .361 OBP 3 HRs 22 RBIs 10 Runs 4 Walks out doing what he did with Griffey and also replaced Griffey in the lineup and definitly out did Griffey. Scott Hatteberg not too much from him in general but his AVG and OBP went up. .319 AVG .407 OBP Javier Valentin not too much from him in general but his AVG and OBP went up. .258 AVG .281 OBP just figured we should have all the #s. As a team 22 Errors this season. 12 Errors while Griffey was here. The team has played 9 games with Griffey here and 19 games without him. Yet 12 errors with him and only 10 without him in way more games... 6-3 record with Griffey and 13-6 record without Griffey. The without Griffey Win % is higher than with Griffey. 6.22 runs allowed with Griffey. 4.26 runs allowed without Griffey. 6.11 runs with Griffey and 5.42 runs without Griffey. So technically we were supposed to be 0-9 with every game we had Griffey because on avg we gave up more than we scored. Without Griffey we have givin up way less runs and scored some less, but not as significant. Now i dont believe these #'s really hold much to them because its not much of a time to judge #s on, BUT everyone wanted to use lances....I think Freel in CF has really helped the team because he can get to way more balls than Griffey and has saved some hits and runs for our team. Having Phillips at 2B has also helped too because that puts Aurilia at 1B over Hatteberg and he is better at 1B than 2B imo. Phillips is our best defensive 2B so thats a plus to have him in the lineup too. Take it for wat its worth, i just figured fairness/intelligence would be to have all the players in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whodey 85 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 If anyone thinks for a second that this team is better without Griffey in the line-up, they are straight up trippin. We average more runs a game, Dunn is a better hitter in the 4 spot with Griffey hittin 3rd, and you see Freel's numbers, he is not an everyday player. He just doesn't have that kind of ability, I think he is crazily overated. Now when he is in the UT role and a spot-starter, I think is a solid guy. But Freel doesn't hold shit to Griffey as an everyday starter in CF. We could do perfectly fine if Phillips and Lopez hit 1 and 2. 1.Brandon Phillips 2B 2.Felipe Lopez SS 3.Ken Griffey CF 4.Adam Dunn LF 5.Eddie E 3B 6.Austin Kearns RF 7.Scott Hatteberg 1B 8.Jason Larue/Javier Valentine C I mean the way some of the guys have been hittin like Eddie and Brandon this lineup would be great. If the pitching keeps up and we pick up some help in the BP, I think we can hang in till October baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='whodey 85' post='263619' date='May 4 2006, 09:06 PM']If anyone thinks for a second that this team is better without Griffey in the line-up, they are straight up trippin. We average more runs a game, Dunn is a better hitter in the 4 spot with Griffey hittin 3rd, and you see Freel's numbers, he is not an everyday player. He just doesn't have that kind of ability, I think he is crazily overated. Now when he is in the UT role and a spot-starter, I think is a solid guy. But Freel doesn't hold shit to Griffey as an everyday starter in CF. We could do perfectly fine if Phillips and Lopez hit 1 and 2. 1.Brandon Phillips 2B 2.Felipe Lopez SS 3.Ken Griffey CF 4.Adam Dunn LF 5.Eddie E 3B 6.Austin Kearns RF 7.Scott Hatteberg 1B 8.Jason Larue/Javier Valentine C I mean the way some of the guys have been hittin like Eddie and Brandon this lineup would be great. If the pitching keeps up and we pick up some help in the BP, I think we can hang in till October baby. [/quote] read the stats above u, they hold much more water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whodey 85 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 here are Freel's stats so far this year as an everyday starter .258 avg, 0 HR, 4 RBI, and is 2nd on the team in steals with 8 Yeah, a real fuckin MVP, who needs Griffey when you can have that kind of production in CF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='whodey 85' post='263630' date='May 4 2006, 09:24 PM']here are Freel's stats so far this year as an everyday starter .258 avg, 0 HR, 4 RBI, and is 2nd on the team in steals with 8 Yeah, a real fuckin MVP, who needs Griffey when you can have that kind of production in CF.[/quote] phillips replaced griffey in the lineup technically, jackass. freel went to CF to upgrade defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoBengal9 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 correlation doesn't mean causation [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/26.gif[/img] , Griff has nothing to do with Pitching stats or errors (unless he commits them), he does have an impact on the offense. When he is in the line up we have been scoring more runs. He changes the dynamic of the batting order and how pitchers face every hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whodey 85 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='263634' date='May 4 2006, 09:27 PM']phillips replaced griffey in the lineup technically, jackass. freel went to CF to upgrade defense.[/quote] u could look at it that way, but I can garuntee u that Freel's ass heads straight to the bench when Griffey comes back cause there is no way in hell Narron would be stupid enough to bench Phillips so Freel can start at 2B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whodey 85 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='TecmoBengal9' post='263644' date='May 4 2006, 09:30 PM']correlation doesn't mean causation [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/26.gif[/img] , Griff has nothing to do with Pitching stats or errors (unless he commits them), he does have an impact on the offense. When he is in the line up we have been scoring more runs. He changes the dynamic of the batting order and how pitchers face every hitter.[/quote] exactly, I don't care if you find these little percentages and all this bullshit, all I know is Griffey is a bonafide slugga and this lineup is better with him in CF and hittin 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='whodey 85' post='263654' date='May 4 2006, 09:36 PM']exactly, I don't care if you find these little percentages and all this bullshit, all I know is Griffey is a bonafide slugga and this lineup is better with him in CF and hittin 3rd[/quote] ill give u with his bat, u will enver convince with his glove. This is where people leave their 1990s glasses on. Griffey fucking sucks in the field now. He cant get to all the flyballs that Freel does and he allows a lot of hits in compared to what he would 5-10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Thurman i think you are missing what the point of this is. The article is showing how Griffey effects the players around him in the lineup. Grifs not going to be effecting people like hatteburg or valentin in the lineup. Before when you argued about griffey i did respect your opnion but right now you are sounding like a complete idoit. Why the fuck are you including errors and pitching in this? They have nothing to do with griffey, he doesnt have a error this season. The more and more you use irrelevant stats to back up your point, the more you look like you know nothing about baseball. PLease get off the griffey hatetrain and come back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='TecmoBengal9' post='263644' date='May 4 2006, 09:30 PM']correlation doesn't mean causation [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/26.gif[/img] , Griff has nothing to do with Pitching stats or errors (unless he commits them), he does have an impact on the offense. When he is in the line up we have been scoring more runs. He changes the dynamic of the batting order and how pitchers face every hitter.[/quote] he doesnt impact every hitter in this fucking lineup. Ive never heard of the guy in the 5th hole affecting the guy in the 6th. Its the guy in the 6 affects the guy in the 5. Griffey doesnt have an effect on everyone in the lineup. And he does affect the pitching stats. I saw atleast 7 balls this year go into CF that a younger griffey and Freel would catch that Griffey didnt. Thats extra base runners and ive seen a few balls also that a younger griffey or freel coulda cut off that allowed more runs. The argument id like to hear is...is this team better with Griffey or better without Griffey and an extra 10 million dollars to use? Id take a Freel/Denorfia platoon with 10 million dollars to spend > Griffey back. Our defense is better and think of what we could get our hands on with 10 mill free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whodey 85 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='263676' date='May 4 2006, 09:58 PM']ill give u with his bat, u will enver convince with his glove. This is where people leave their 1990s glasses on. Griffey fucking sucks in the field now. He cant get to all the flyballs that Freel does and he allows a lot of hits in compared to what he would 5-10 years ago.[/quote] I'm not sayin he's the Gold Glover he used to be, but he does a decent job and he may not track the ball down as much as Freel, but he still doesn't commit many errors and will have more assists on throws than Freel would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 If we got rid of Griffey we would have 10 mil to play with. No team will pick up 10mil in a trade, period. Freel may be quicker to balls these days then griffey but Freel couldnt throw someone out at home to save his life. The ONLY thing Freel does better then Griffey would be his speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoBengal9 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='263676' date='May 4 2006, 09:58 PM']ill give u with his bat, u will enver convince with his glove. This is where people leave their 1990s glasses on. Griffey fucking sucks in the field now. He cant get to all the flyballs that Freel does and he allows a lot of hits in compared to what he would 5-10 years ago.[/quote] I'm with you on this one, plus he is injury prone and he gets hurt in the field. Is it time for the Griffey to 1st debate because if I got my wish we would have sent his ass there years ago. We could come up with a hell of a line up with Griffey playing first most days. Lopez Phillips Griffey Dunn Kearns Edwin Somebody who plays great defense in outfield catcher pitcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='dieselman44' post='263691' date='May 4 2006, 10:13 PM']If we got rid of Griffey we would have 10 mil to play with. No team will pick up 10mil in a trade, period. Freel may be quicker to balls these days then griffey but Freel couldnt throw someone out at home to save his life. The ONLY thing Freel does better then Griffey would be his speed.[/quote] heh, marty mentioned the other day how Freel has a better arm than Griffey....Griffeys arm isnt that great and Freel has thrown some great balls from CF since he moved there. AND I never said trade Griffey (altho some teams have wanted him). i want him to fucking retire. id rather him retire and us have that 10 mill than him comeback here and there. He doenst help this team by playing randomly. if he cant play everyday than retire because ur only an inconvience when it comes to that. [quote name='TecmoBengal9' post='263692' date='May 4 2006, 10:15 PM']I'm with you on this one, plus he is injury prone and he gets hurt in the field. Is it time for the Griffey to 1st debate because if I got my wish we would have sent his ass there years ago. We could come up with a hell of a line up with Griffey playing first most days. Lopez Phillips Griffey Dunn Kearns Edwin Somebody who plays great defense in outfield catcher pitcher[/quote] thats what i want but Griffey has too big of an ego. Griffey to LF is more of my wish and Dunn to 1B. But either of them going to 1B makes me happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Griffey played in 8 games this year and is batting .258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='263772' date='May 4 2006, 11:43 PM']Griffey played in 8 games this year and is batting .258 [/quote] and he is getting 10 million dollars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.