Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='268503' date='May 15 2006, 07:43 PM']Should have traded Dunn instead of Wily Mo. He just hit a two run homer with Boston.[/quote] hitting 333 on the year. its amazing what u can do when u get to play everday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 Penas career average is .254 Dunns career average is .247 They are both power hitters and probably will never hit for average. Pena has a chance to prove himself now, but hitting .321 right now doesnt mean you will be hitting over .300 at the end of the season. Both strikeout way to much and Pena still hasnt figured out how to take a walk. Both suck at fielding and are perfect for being a DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 If you do look at the numbers Dunn has 131 total AB's and 29 hits Wily Mo has 81 AB's and 27 hits 215<316 Wily mo's average (probably went up after tonight) Wily is 25 and Dunn is 27 Dunn has 47 so's and wily mo only has 25. I no it was Krivisky's only mistake but damn. We could have had such a better threat....Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='268593' date='May 15 2006, 10:41 PM']If you do look at the numbers Dunn has 131 total AB's and 29 hits Wily Mo has 81 AB's and 27 hits 215<316 Wily mo's average (probably went up after tonight) Wily is 25 and Dunn is 27 Dunn has 47 so's and wily mo only has 25. I no it was Krivisky's only mistake but damn. We could have had such a better threat....Damn.[/quote] Pena(84 at bats): .321 AVG, 27 Hits, 4 HR, 17 RBI, 7 BB, 27 K ...... .368 OBP Dunn(131 at bats): .221 AVG, 29 Hits, 13 HR, 26 RBI, 33 BB, 45 K ..... .377 OBP Dunn hits .100 points lower in average but gets on base more than Pena. Dunns walked more in 1 year than Pena has walked in his whole major league career. Whats surprising is Dunn has 32 more stolen bases in his career than Pena does. Dunn has 2402 total at bats in his career, 495 walks & 780 strikeouts Pena has 914 total at bats in his career, 61 walks & 315 strikeouts At the end of the year they will both be around there career averages of .247 and .255 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 If we would have traded Dunn for Arroyo, reds fans would have burnt down Great American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='268589' date='May 15 2006, 10:36 PM']Penas career average is .254 Dunns career average is .247 They are both power hitters and probably will never hit for average. Pena has a chance to prove himself now, but hitting .321 right now doesnt mean you will be hitting over .300 at the end of the season. Both strikeout way to much and Pena still hasnt figured out how to take a walk. Both suck at fielding and are perfect for being a DH.[/quote] yes but Pena hasnt gotten a legit shot either and neither has Kearns imo. We fucked both of them by making them platoon because ur not gonna get much better that way. When Kearns got hurt last year Wily Mo hit like 315 in that month or month and a half Kearns didnt play and i think Wily Mo was our top hitter for that stretch too. Wily Mo has shown some bright spots in the OF this year, but he has also had some bad blunders. He is a better fielder overall than Dunn, altho thats like comparing diarrhea and solid shit. Wily Mo has attempted to start hitting the ball opposite field, unlike Dunn and its paying off for him now. Dunn had more value so i woulda like to have traded him but like diesel said the fans would have gone nuts over it. I think everyone will bitch when he leaves after his contract about why we didnt trade him or when they finally see past the long HRs that he cant do anything else and then bitch we had him. At 27 years old i dont see Dunn making too many changes anymore. He seems content in his ways and why wouldnt he everyone worships him for a long solo HR and thats about it. I would have loved Pena-Griffey-Kearns in the OF. Just think of the core of guys we would have 26 and under in the lineup with Kearns-Pena-Phillips-Lopez-Edwin (and i really like denorfia). That woulda been a group of guys all with solid power and pretty clutch bats and all of them potentially 300 hitters. I dont blame them for not trading Dunn because he is a money maker but i wish they would trade him while he still has value on the market because his value to this team success and win wise is very minimal. [quote name='dieselman44' post='268628' date='May 16 2006, 12:43 AM']If we would have traded Dunn for Arroyo, reds fans would have burnt down Great American.[/quote] i woulda masterbated for hours. i would of felt like BJ if the bengals signed Sam Adams, Grady Jackson, Lavar Arrington, and drafted Gabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='268606' date='May 15 2006, 11:25 PM']Pena(84 at bats): .321 AVG, 27 Hits, 4 HR, [b]17 RBI[/b],[b] 7 BB, 27 K[/b] ...... [b].368 OBP[/b] Dunn(131 at bats): .221 AVG, 29 Hits, 13 HR, [b]26 RBI[/b], [b]33 BB, 45 K[/b] ..... [b].377 OBP[/b] Dunn hits .100 points lower in average but gets on base more than Pena. Dunns walked more in 1 year than Pena has walked in his whole major league career. Whats surprising is Dunn has 32 more stolen bases in his career than Pena does. Dunn has 2402 total at bats in his career, 495 walks & 780 strikeouts Pena has 914 total at bats in his career, 61 walks & 315 strikeouts At the end of the year they will both be around there career averages of .247 and .255[/quote] the only numbers that matter, are the ones i bolded... why do we even care what somebodies batting average is? if they have a .280 BA, it sound great as long as they don't have a .280 OBP... dunn is a better hitter, a better fielder, better eye, and more power than wily mo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='268642' date='May 16 2006, 03:49 AM']yes but Pena hasnt gotten a legit shot either and neither has Kearns imo. We fucked both of them by making them platoon because ur not gonna get much better that way. When Kearns got hurt last year Wily Mo hit like 315 in that month or month and a half Kearns didnt play and i think Wily Mo was our top hitter for that stretch too. Wily Mo has shown some bright spots in the OF this year, but he has also had some bad blunders. He is a better fielder overall than Dunn, altho thats like comparing diarrhea and solid shit. Wily Mo has attempted to start hitting the ball opposite field, unlike Dunn and its paying off for him now. Dunn had more value so i woulda like to have traded him but like diesel said the fans would have gone nuts over it. I think everyone will bitch when he leaves after his contract about why we didnt trade him or when they finally see past the long HRs that he cant do anything else and then bitch we had him. At 27 years old i dont see Dunn making too many changes anymore. He seems content in his ways and why wouldnt he everyone worships him for a long solo HR and thats about it. I would have loved Pena-Griffey-Kearns in the OF. Just think of the core of guys we would have 26 and under in the lineup with Kearns-Pena-Phillips-Lopez-Edwin (and i really like denorfia). That woulda been a group of guys all with solid power and pretty clutch bats and all of them potentially 300 hitters. I dont blame them for not trading Dunn because he is a money maker but i wish they would trade him while he still has value on the market because his value to this team success and win wise is very minimal.[/quote] Pena can play good if he is allowed to play everyday and there is no guarantee that he will play everyday once Coco Crisp returns. The Redsox should consider letting Pena stay in CF and having Crisp move to RF when he comes back. Pena has always looked better playing in CF than in RF even when he played with the Reds. The guy the Reds should have delt and didnt is Griffey. They had a chance to trade him to a team like the White Sox last year and the old owners turned it down. They could have flipped Griffey for pitching and had an outfield of Dunn-Pena-Kearns. The Reds could have then used the money the saved from Griffeys contract and went out and bought some bullpen help. After Casey was traded Dunn even agreed to move to 1B so Pena could get everyday playing time in the outfield. I know people dont want to hear about Dunn moving to 1B, but he could be good at 1B if he is given a whole spring training to practice over there. It takes time to learn a postion that you havent played in a long time. Soriano of the Nationals is a perfect example of someone who was moved to a position he has never played and has made noticable errors and misplays. To me it wouldnt be a big deal if they delt Dunn as long as they recieved good pitching in return, if they dont get pitching then theres no reason to trade him. They have to do something because Denorfia is ready to be in the majors, but he has no place to play right now... unless someone gets hurt or someone changes positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [i]After Casey was traded Dunn even agreed to move to 1B so Pena could get everyday playing time in the outfield. I know people dont want to hear about Dunn moving to 1B, but he could be good at 1B if he is given a whole spring training to practice over there.[/i] he has been given 3 fucking years in left field (easiest postion to play on the field) and he has gotten worse, i think... he's played one game there this year, and he had an error... he has 5 errors already this year in a month, than kearns has had in the past 3 years... this is something that for me to change my mind, i'd have to see it... hell, i'd have to see some sort of improvement, and quite honestly, i haven't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='268827' date='May 16 2006, 12:34 PM']the only numbers that matter, are the ones i bolded... why do we even care what somebodies batting average is? if they have a .280 BA, it sound great as long as they don't have a .280 OBP... dunn is a better hitter, a better fielder, better eye, and more power than wily mo...[/quote] dunn is a worse hitter, worse fielder, better eye and power is even (wily mo has more, but he needs the opp. to show it). Wily Mo also has only 9 less RBIs in 47 less ABs. Wily is also batting 7th and 8th instead of 3rd and 4th, yet he gets more RBIs per at bat than Dunn and Dunn bats in the order where its much easier to attain RBIs. Wily Mo has 0 errors altho that HR he gave up i would have called one, BUT Dunn had atleast 2, id say 3 errors on opening day that were counted as hits. Dunn has 5 errors on the year and Wily Mo has 0, even tho Wily Mo is playing a much harder position in CF. Dunn is like worst fielding % in the Majors right now with his 949 in LF and 889 at 1B. Wily Mo is a steady 1000. Also by ESPNs profiles i got these #'s: Adam Dunn: At Bats: 117 | Flyball: 34.2% | Groundball: 25.6% | Strikeout: 40.2% | GIDP: 1.7% Wily Mo Pena: At Bats: 77 | Flyball: 39.0% | Groundball: 26.0% | Strikeout: 35.1% | GIDP: 0.0% So Dunn K's a bigger % of at bats and grounds into more double plays than Wily Mo...interesting. Atleast Wily Mo puts the ball into the field more often. With RISP over the last 3 years Adam Dunn is a 225 hitter and Wily Mo is a 239 hitter. This year Wily Mo is a 300 hitter and Adam Dunn is hitting a massive 172 this year with RISP. For 8 million dollars cheaper Wily Mo is arguably a better player and if u dont want to give that then u can atleast admit that Adam Dunn is not 8 million dollars a season better than Wily Mo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='268859' date='May 16 2006, 01:29 PM']Pena can play good if he is allowed to play everyday and there is no guarantee that he will play everyday once Coco Crisp returns. The Redsox should consider letting Pena stay in CF and having Crisp move to RF when he comes back. Pena has always looked better playing in CF than in RF even when he played with the Reds. The guy the Reds should have delt and didnt is Griffey. They had a chance to trade him to a team like the White Sox last year and the old owners turned it down. They could have flipped Griffey for pitching and had an outfield of Dunn-Pena-Kearns. The Reds could have then used the money the saved from Griffeys contract and went out and bought some bullpen help. After Casey was traded Dunn even agreed to move to 1B so Pena could get everyday playing time in the outfield. I know people dont want to hear about Dunn moving to 1B, but he could be good at 1B if he is given a whole spring training to practice over there. It takes time to learn a postion that you havent played in a long time. Soriano of the Nationals is a perfect example of someone who was moved to a position he has never played and has made noticable errors and misplays. To me it wouldnt be a big deal if they delt Dunn as long as they recieved good pitching in return, if they dont get pitching then theres no reason to trade him. They have to do something because Denorfia is ready to be in the majors, but he has no place to play right now... unless someone gets hurt or someone changes positions.[/quote] Manny Ramirez plays RF, so Crisp would have to go to left, which is his natural position. Pena was originally a 3B and 1B in high school, but when he got drafted he played all around in the minors and when he got to the majors teams put him in the OF, he hasnt had any legit experience in one position, but his natural OF position seems to be CF and he has the speed to play that position and a very strong arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='268894' date='May 16 2006, 01:59 PM']Manny Ramirez plays RF, so Crisp would have to go to left, which is his natural position. Pena was originally a 3B and 1B in high school, but when he got drafted he played all around in the minors and when he got to the majors teams put him in the OF, he hasnt had any legit experience in one position, but his natural OF position seems to be CF and he has the speed to play that position and a very strong arm.[/quote] Manny plays LF and Trot Nixon plays RF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='268882' date='May 16 2006, 01:45 PM'][i]After Casey was traded Dunn even agreed to move to 1B so Pena could get everyday playing time in the outfield. I know people dont want to hear about Dunn moving to 1B, but he could be good at 1B if he is given a whole spring training to practice over there.[/i] he has been given 3 fucking years in left field (easiest postion to play on the field) and he has gotten worse, i think... he's played one game there this year, and he had an error... he has 5 errors already this year in a month, than kearns has had in the past 3 years... this is something that for me to change my mind, i'd have to see it... hell, i'd have to see some sort of improvement, and quite honestly, i haven't...[/quote] Hes never going to be good in LF, the best position for him is either 1B or DH. Dunn is a huge target and he showed the other day how much further he can stretch out to catch the ball from the other infielders. He lacks experience at the 1B position and he could have gotten a bunch of time in at 1B over spring training if the Reds had the guts to tell him hes going to play 1B instead of letting Dunn decide were he wants to play. Hes eventually going to end up a 1B whether its with the Reds or another team. To me its not a big deal if Dunn gets traded, because Denorfia would likely get called up and get plenty of playing time. The Reds are stacked with outfielders and the guy they drafted last year (Jay Bruce - plays Center Field) is showing more power in the minors than Dunn or Kearns did when they were in the same league. Bruce has about 143 at bats and already has 12 doubles, 2 triples and 7 homeruns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='268906' date='May 16 2006, 02:24 PM']Manny plays LF and Trot Nixon plays RF.[/quote] interesting, when did they move manny? all the cleveland/boston games i ever used to watch/go to manny was always in RF, altho its been 2-3 years since ive seen/been to one with him playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 16, 2006 Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='268931' date='May 16 2006, 03:04 PM']interesting, when did they move manny? all the cleveland/boston games i ever used to watch/go to manny was always in RF, altho its been 2-3 years since ive seen/been to one with him playing.[/quote] Manny has been playing leftfield for the duration of his career in Boston. where the fuck have you been? Manny being Manny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 [quote name='dieselman44' post='268994' date='May 16 2006, 04:41 PM']Manny has been playing leftfield for the duration of his career in Boston. where the fuck have you been? Manny being Manny [/quote] well 1) i hate boston, 2) the one boston game i went to he played RF and he played RF in cleveland so i figured he played RF. I hate Boston and the Yankees. Id love for them to be eliminated from baseball, sadly they are the 2 money makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted May 17, 2006 Report Share Posted May 17, 2006 I just figured that you whould know that because you did tell me back when that you would smoke me in knowledge of pretty much all the sports. You dont seem to know too much about baseball if you didnt know what position one of the best players in the game played. My mom could have told me where manny played and she doesnt even watch baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 18, 2006 Report Share Posted May 18, 2006 [quote name='dieselman44' post='269357' date='May 17 2006, 03:40 PM']I just figured that you whould know that because you did tell me back when that you would smoke me in knowledge of pretty much all the sports. You dont seem to know too much about baseball if you didnt know what position one of the best players in the game played. My mom could have told me where manny played and she doesnt even watch baseball.[/quote] u talk so much fucking shit and that isnt a category of baseball i would care to know. if u asked what position he has seen more games at in his career it would be RF. The man is a shitty ass fielder anyways so it doesnt really matter and i would love for the team located in Boston to just go to hell or somethign and get the hell out of baseball, along with New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='268926' date='May 16 2006, 02:55 PM']Hes never going to be good in LF, the best position for him is either 1B or DH. Dunn is a huge target and he showed the other day how much further he can stretch out to catch the ball from the other infielders. He lacks experience at the 1B position and he could have gotten a bunch of time in at 1B over spring training if the Reds had the guts to tell him hes going to play 1B instead of letting Dunn decide were he wants to play. Hes eventually going to end up a 1B whether its with the Reds or another team. To me its not a big deal if Dunn gets traded, because Denorfia would likely get called up and get plenty of playing time. The Reds are stacked with outfielders and the guy they drafted last year (Jay Bruce - plays Center Field) is showing more power in the minors than Dunn or Kearns did when they were in the same league. Bruce has about 143 at bats and already has 12 doubles, 2 triples and 7 homeruns.[/quote] so your saying that since he can't play the easiest postion, lets put him at one of the hardest positions, while we have a SS and a 3rd baseman who can throw the ball 100 mph but has alot of throwing errors... does this make sense to you, honestly? left field is a pretty easy position to play... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Master Shake Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='270158' date='May 19 2006, 10:11 AM']so your saying that since he can't play the easiest postion, lets put him at one of the hardest positions, while we have a SS and a 3rd baseman who can throw the ball 100 mph but has alot of throwing errors... does this make sense to you, honestly? left field is a pretty easy position to play...[/quote] 1B is not one of the hardest positions C, 2B, SS, 3B & CF are all much harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [quote name='Master Shake' post='270161' date='May 19 2006, 10:15 AM']1B is not one of the hardest positions C, 2B, SS, 3B & CF are all much harder [/quote] i disagree with calling 2B and CF hard. The only difficult thing about 2B at all is range, but u can play far enough back to remove that issue. CF is the easiest OF position to see if hte ball is going to carry or be short and all u need is some decent wheels. I do believe they are all harder than LF and 1B, but i dont consider those 2 real hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted May 19, 2006 Report Share Posted May 19, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='270158' date='May 19 2006, 10:11 AM']so your saying that since he can't play the easiest postion, lets put him at one of the hardest positions, while we have a SS and a 3rd baseman who can throw the ball 100 mph but has alot of throwing errors... does this make sense to you, honestly? left field is a pretty easy position to play...[/quote] who cares? Im not going to change my opinion and your not going to change your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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