Soccer Thread

[JC]

England is working the USA up and down the field right now.


Is anyone else checking this out?

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

Is Spector playing?

Poor guy got so much abuse from West Ham fans this year. Not really his fault, he was played all over the place. And if I can be honest, right now, he is not premier league quality. Good sub. But not a starter. But the dude is young still.

Because of that West Ham USA academy the team set up, we are being linked with quite a few players. One is Bradley who I hope we avoid, the other dude is Bocanegro, who I don't mind, would be ok for depth. And some young US player. Under 20 I think. name escapes me.

[JC]

Nope. No Spector

In the back they have Cherunaldo Gooch Boca and Pearce.

US is playing without Landon which kind of sucks. Jozy Altidore isn't there either, but i doubt he would start over Deuce or EJ.


Becks had a really nice free kick but it was called back.


But England just ran the US up and down the field and are benifiting from calls. The US is just getting punished every time there strikers recieve the ball and aren't getting and shots on goal.

I guess it is England, but im dissapointed. Maybe i shouldn't expect as much without Landon.

[Nati Ice]

this lineup sucks, the ref is taking away every advantage we get, and we are playing like shit

so far its not been a good day

[JC]

Ugly.


I hope we can get better play from our wings against Spain. Possesion in the midfield would help too.

[LudwigVan Kubrick]

[quote name='dieselman44' post='281148' date='Jun 11 2006, 11:49 PM']Ok heres the deal. [b]Ive never played soccer in my life, i always played football and baseball when i was growing up.[/b] I dont find watching Soccer too entertaining because of the low scores and not much action. But i do tend to watch the World Cup because I am an american and i root for my country. Most of you guys seem like you know what your talking about when it comes to this sport. So I will pose a question that somebody might be able to answer or clear up. Why the fuck doesn't the USA have a better team? All I hear is that soccer is the most played sport by our young kids yet our National team sucks balls. I really cant make the connection. Youd figure out of all the young kids we have playing we could put together 11 guys that would kick ass.[/quote]


You answered your own question. Most of the USA's better athletes choose football, baseball or basketball over soccer. All around the world, its the complete opposite. If the Ken Griffey Jr.s, Ray Lewis's and Michael Jordans of the US chose soccer while growing up, I guarantee the US would be right up there with Brazil, Italy, Germany and the other top soccer teams.

[MAGICTOUCH]

My thoughts:

1. I was a fan of our central defense against CONCACAF and inferior European sides, but they got exposed against England.

2. This team right now NEEDS Landon, until the younger guys develop more. Adu, Edu, Altidore, Bradley look to a bright future but we need more.

3. Not only could we not hold the midfield, but we had absolutely nothing going on up top. Either Landon could have played there, or he could have played the right wing and Dempsey could have been up top.

4. The team was flat. The only players that I thought showed any spark was Adu and Hejdek, both subs.

5. England is freaking stacked with a Who's Who of Premiership stars. Look how many starters from Chelsea and Man U there is alone, plus Garrard, James, Crouch, blah blah blah...

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='MAGICTOUCH' post='668782' date='May 30 2008, 05:08 AM']My thoughts:

1. I was a fan of our central defense against CONCACAF and inferior European sides, but they got exposed against England.

2. This team right now NEEDS Landon, until the younger guys develop more. Adu, Edu, Altidore, Bradley look to a bright future but we need more.

3. Not only could we not hold the midfield, but we had absolutely nothing going on up top. Either Landon could have played there, or he could have played the right wing and Dempsey could have been up top.

4. The team was flat. The only players that I thought showed any spark was Adu and Hejdek, both subs.

5. [b]England is freaking stacked with a Who's Who of Premiership stars[/b]. Look how many starters from Chelsea and Man U there is alone, plus Garrard, James, Crouch, blah blah blah...[/quote]
There are English people playing in the premiership?

(I might have to PM VB, just so someone can laugh at this )

[MAGICTOUCH]

[quote name='KangarWhoDey' post='668795' date='May 29 2008, 03:45 PM']There are English people playing in the premiership?

(I might have to PM VB, just so someone can laugh at this )[/quote]



Inside joke or something?

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

[quote name='LudwigVan Kubrick' post='668714' date='May 29 2008, 10:49 AM']You answered your own question. Most of the USA's better athletes choose football, baseball or basketball over soccer. All around the world, its the complete opposite. If the Ken Griffey Jr.s, Ray Lewis's and Michael Jordans of the US chose soccer while growing up, I guarantee the US would be right up there with Brazil, Italy, Germany and the other top soccer teams.[/quote]


There's a big difference in training methods as well. In the US, you've seen the uproar about kids in 9th grade being offered scholarships. No one bats an eyelid about that in Europe (and more so Brazil and South America)

The Brazilians have a reputation of being the most naturally gifted and flamboyant players in the world. But their training system is on a different level. They work harder than any other nation. For example, Robinho, the real madrid winger was practicing at least 3 hours a day from the age of 8 onwards. In those countries, the clubs actually have their own schools, where kids receive room and board from Grade 3 onwards. They study during the day, and then practice afterwards. Their diet is fully monitored etc. Spain does this, Germany does this, the English are beginning to under Fabio Capello. (Manchester United for a long time have run their own football youth school, through their feeder club in Belgium, Royal Antwerp F.C. - the 9 year old they signed...Rhain Davis, will be playing there in two years. )

There was a rumour that Landon Donovan quit his time in Europe with Leverkusen initially because the training was too hard. Not sure if that's true, I think it was more a being young thing. but other players who've made the leap from North America have said the same thing. For example, Canada recently lost Jonathon De Guzman to Holland. (he qualified through a dutch mother) he said there is no comparison in training. Also, English winger Owen Hargreaves is Canadian but left to go to the Bayern Munich youth system to further his game.

The best athletes thing might be a factor, but more kinds in the States play soccer than any other sport. until training is overhauled, I think there will be a bit of a gap in teams.

There is also the difference in coaching cultures. In England for example, you're slotted in early to your position. E.g. usually by age 10 people make the decision, you're a defender, you're a striker etc. The US seems to follow this model. Most of the European nations used to...

Contrast that to the South American system and countries like Spain and Portugal where players really have no set position until at least 16 or so. So that they can develop all the skills and positional sense with all positions.

I think the US's training methods and talent are improving though. The US team at the Under 17 World Cup last year that Canada hosted was very impressive. They will be contenders if they can all stay fit, avoid injuries and keep their motivation up.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='MAGICTOUCH' post='668803' date='May 30 2008, 06:23 AM']Inside joke or something? [/quote]
nah, just that the news in the UK is always that there are not enough English players in the premiership

have to live there to read/hear that stuff every day I guess.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='KangarWhoDey' post='668795' date='May 29 2008, 02:45 PM']There are English people playing in the premiership?

(I might have to PM VB, just so someone can laugh at this )[/quote]

Ha, laugh all you want, but the premiership has become the best because of their imports, and because of investors like Abramovich raising the ante for the rest of the league. I think some of the new regulations FIFA or UEFA are proposing, mandating a certain number of national citizens and/or homegrown players on every team, are pointless and needlessly intrusive.

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

It'd be awesome if the 6/5 rule gets passed for my team West Ham. They have the most English starters of any premier league club. And also arguably the best youth system in the country. I don't think it gets passed. the EU would consider it job discriminatory.


Joe Cole
Frank Lampard
Rio Ferdinand
Michael Carrick
Jermain Defoe
John Terry
Glen Johnson

are all part of the current England squad and are all products of the West Ham youth academy. Besides Terry, all of them played on the same squad years ago. If we just had the rich Icelandic owners we had now, instead of that money grubbing cheap bastard Terence Brown...fuck, they'd be right there in the thick of the premiership title race.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='668813' date='May 30 2008, 06:44 AM']Ha, laugh all you want, but the premiership has become the best because of their imports, and because of investors like Abramovich raising the ante for the rest of the league. I think some of the new regulations FIFA or UEFA are proposing, mandating a certain number of national citizens and/or homegrown players on every team, are pointless and needlessly intrusive.[/quote]


[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='668814' date='May 30 2008, 06:56 AM']It'd be awesome if the 6/5 rule gets passed for my team West Ham. They have the most English starters of any premier league club. And also arguably the best youth system in the country. I don't think it gets passed. the EU would consider it job discriminatory.


Joe Cole
Frank Lampard
Rio Ferdinand
Michael Carrick
Jermain Defoe
John Terry
Glen Johnson

are all part of the current England squad and are all products of the West Ham youth academy. Besides Terry, all of them played on the same squad years ago. If we just had the rich Icelandic owners we had now, instead of that money grubbing cheap bastard Terence Brown...fuck, they'd be right there in the thick of the premiership title race.[/quote]
1- I am a HAMMERS fan (unlike VB who likes those wankers from White Hart Lane)

2- It's not my fault that IN England, the presumption is that there are not enough English folk playing in the premiership. That's the only point I was trying to point out...

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='668814' date='May 29 2008, 03:56 PM']It'd be awesome if the 6/5 rule gets passed for my team West Ham. They have the most English starters of any premier league club. And also arguably the best youth system in the country. I don't think it gets passed. the EU would consider it job discriminatory.


Joe Cole
Frank Lampard
Rio Ferdinand
Michael Carrick
Jermain Defoe
John Terry
Glen Johnson

are all part of the current England squad and are all products of the West Ham youth academy. Besides Terry, all of them played on the same squad years ago. If we just had the rich Icelandic owners we had now, instead of that money grubbing cheap bastard Terence Brown...fuck, they'd be right there in the thick of the premiership title race.[/quote]

Arsenal have a few products of their youth system, but otherwise would have to disband. Hopefully the idea will die off, and you'll be back to blowing bubbles.

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

[quote name='KangarWhoDey' post='668821' date='May 29 2008, 04:05 PM']1- I am a HAMMERS fan (unlike VB who likes those wankers from White Hart Lane)[/quote]

That's three of us now...English Bengal is a Hammers fan as well. We must be masochists, following the Bengals and the Hammers. Talk about an emotional roller coaster.

My family besides me are Spuds fans. It's nauseating, but I think they will do well under Juande Ramos, he's turning them around. Luca Modric is a great signing for them. I was hoping that the $800 mm Joseph Lewis lost on Bear Stearns would mean some tough times at White Hart Lane but no dice unfortunately.


Wait....WhoDeyUK = KangarWhoDey....ahhh I just realised. alright, so we've been over this before.

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='668822' date='May 29 2008, 04:08 PM']Arsenal have a few products of their youth system, but otherwise would have to disband. Hopefully the idea will die off, and you'll be back to blowing bubbles.[/quote]

Really? I can really only think of Niklas Bendtner who has made an impression on the senior team after coming through the juniors? I must be missing some people. I guess Walcott as he's so young, but I still consider him Southampton. And Van Persie as being a product of Feyenoord. The other two recent high profile youth guys they had also haven't seem to have done squat with other teams...(Francis Jeffers, David Nugent)

One of my best friends is a hardcore Gunners fan in London. He swears that a Mexican player on your youth team, Carlos Vela will be setting the premiership alight in two years.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='668828' date='May 30 2008, 07:24 AM']That's three of us now...English Bengal is a Hammers fan as well. We must be masochists, following the Bengals and the Hammers. Talk about an emotional roller coaster.

My family besides me are Spuds fans. It's nauseating, but I think they will do well under Juande Ramos, he's turning them around. Luca Modric is a great signing for them. I was hoping that the $800 mm Joseph Lewis lost on Bear Stearns would mean some tough times at White Hart Lane but no dice unfortunately.[/quote]
I'm not sure if I've shared this tale hear on G-B, but you, at least are sure to appreciate it (my pain)

during the Hammers/Liverpool FA cup final a couple of years back, I was watching the game @ my local (the spread eagle)

I'd learned to be quiet during the matches in the pub from early on in my time in the UK. (the AC Milan/Liverpool matchh in UEFA if memory serves) so I hadn't really chatted with anyone while watching the match...

When the match went to extra time (fucking asshat Gerrard ) the bloke sitting next to me struck up a conversation...

Where ya from? he asked...

Cincinnati, OH, (I O!!!) I replied...

his answer to that...



oh, KIMO VON OLHOFFEN!!!!













this was just months after the playoff game. I saw red like a bull.... pull my fist back... and...


... lol'ed as he looked at me in horror. damn I wanted to kill his ass, but I was so happy to be talking REAL football to someone in a pub (VB lived hours away ) that I just smiled and laughed it off.



fucking liverpool ruined that day, though

[VonBlade]

Dude. Sorry for the delay. On one of my less sociable down-turns at the moment.

Aaanyway. English guys in the Premiership. Jesus wept. The Arse had an average of .3 Englishmen in their team per match. So one english starter every three matches in a 30 match season. There just aren't any good players. Five World-Class guys and that's it.

Which is more than can be said for the US team. You'd have been beaten by San Marino you were so poor. A bit like Louisville beating the GB Team in Baseball.

The English Football team is like the US Basketball dream teams. Three of four superstar "me me me" type guys and only scrubs after them.

Shame Fulham didn't go down though. And a bigger shame the so smug I want to kill him Ferguson got the Champions League to go with the Prem title. Fucker.

Come on you Spuuuuuuuuuuuurs.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='668810' date='May 29 2008, 04:32 PM']There was a rumour that Landon Donovan quit his time in Europe with Leverkusen initially because the training was too hard. Not sure if that's true, I think it was more a being young thing.[/quote]
the reality is that landon donovan is just a fucking pussy who couldnt handle being out of his comfort zone without his comfort select mattress, beach side condo, and actress wife

[Chris Henrys Dealer]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='668869' date='May 29 2008, 07:48 PM']the reality is that landon donovan is just a fucking pussy who couldnt handle being out of his comfort zone without his comfort select mattress, beach side condo, and actress wife[/quote]


Ahhh so there was some truth to that rumour. I've read it in a few places. And it's a favourite tale of anyone trying to bring up reasons why they feel the US will never compete. But like I said, your under 17 team last year looked damn good.

Good to see this thread got going again.

[MAGICTOUCH]

[quote name='KangarWhoDey' post='668811' date='May 29 2008, 04:36 PM']nah, just that the news in the UK is always that there are not enough English players in the premiership

have to live there to read/hear that stuff every day I guess. [/quote]


I gotcha...though from an outsiders POV it seems there are alot of English players in the Premiership. What do some of them want? To be the best league in the world you get the best talent in the world you can.


There's no way that 6/5 rule passes. I read where the EU has already said it would be against their labor laws (or something like that )

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='668858' date='May 29 2008, 07:04 PM']Shame Fulham didn't go down though. And a bigger shame the so smug I want to kill him Ferguson got the Champions League to go with the Prem title. Fucker.[/quote]

Ditto on Ferguson, but I was happy to see Fulham stay up. It wouldn't do the American contingent there much good to be playing in the Championship next year.

I don't know anyone who pays attention to soccer goings-on who likes Donovan. He had the chance to play first team in a good league, but he pussed out when his place in the team wasn't assured. He's content to be a big fish in a little pond instead.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Chris Henrys Dealer' post='668830' date='May 29 2008, 04:32 PM']Really? I can really only think of Niklas Bendtner who has made an impression on the senior team after coming through the juniors? I must be missing some people. I guess Walcott as he's so young, but I still consider him Southampton. And Van Persie as being a product of Feyenoord. The other two recent high profile youth guys they had also haven't seem to have done squat with other teams...(Francis Jeffers, David Nugent)

One of my best friends is a hardcore Gunners fan in London. He swears that a Mexican player on your youth team, Carlos Vela will be setting the premiership alight in two years.[/quote]

Also, the teams they have played in the Carling Cup, and early rounds of the FA, have been mostly youngsters in recent years. (They beat Liverpool with one of these teams last year). Nicklas Bendtner, Denilson, Justin Hoyte, Armand Traore, Johan Djourou, Kerrea Gilbert, and Vela will be coming along soon. Among the recent guys who are now elsewhere, Seb Larsson with Birmingham, Jermaine Pennant with Liverpool, and David Bentley with Blackburn are doing quite well.


I was recently in London for a job interview, and in my few extra days there, I decided to check out some stadiums. I was standing outside Stamford Bridge during the Chelsea-Man U game - almost had an opportunity to sneak in at the end when a guard turned away to look at a TV - and also saw the Emirates, the old shell of Highbury, and Shite Hart Lane. The Emirates is extremely impressive...

[#40]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='668902' date='May 30 2008, 12:21 AM']Also, the teams they have played in the Carling Cup, and early rounds of the FA, have been mostly youngsters in recent years. (They beat Liverpool with one of these teams last year). Nicklas Bendtner, Denilson, Justin Hoyte, Johan Djourou, Kerrea Gilbert, and Vela will be coming along soon. Among the recent guys who are now elsewhere, Seb Larsson with Birmingham, Jermaine Pennant with Liverpool, and David Bentley with Blackburn are doing quite well.


I was recently in London for a job interview, and in my few extra days there, I decided to check out some stadiums. I was standing outside Stamford Bridge during the Chelsea-Man U game - almost had an opportunity to sneak in at the end when a guard turned away to look at a TV - and also saw the Emirates, the old shell of Highbury, and Shite Hart Lane. The Emirates is extremely impressive...[/quote]

The youngsters have massive potential, they have produced great performences in these past few years, and past seasons win at Ewood Park was great. The names you mentioned have proved how much quality they have at the "lower" levels. Justin Hoyte got a chance to play first team action alot this season because of Sagna's injury. He put in some good, decent, and poor performences. I'm looking forward to seeing the youngsters. Apart from the names you mentioned, the main names to look out for are Nacer Barazite, Jack Wilshere, Fran Merida, Henry Lansbury, and Mark Randall. If they go on the pace they are going, they will break into the first team in a few years time. They are quality.

The other names you mentioned still have a lot to prove, along with "regular" first teamers such as Eboue and Senderos. I don't even know what to say about Eboue, the lad is something else...Seb Larsson is a cunt, and I couldn't be happier to see Birmingham go down the drain even if we had "mutual" relationship with them.

Speaking of football, Domenech really is a fool isn't he? Not picking Sagna and Clichy, and having Willy Sagnol and Abidal in front of them (even fucking Evra) is absurd, but their loss is our gain I guess, since they were the teams most consistent players this past year and deservedly need rest. Domenech is believed to be very supersticious and thats the reason he didn't pick Clichy, maybe those were the same reasons he never picked Pires as well. Anyway, looking forward to the Euros, cannot wait acually.