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* Bonds Ties the Babe !


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Guest ThurmanMunster

[quote name='The Scales' post='272260' date='May 23 2006, 06:55 PM']I don't believe that Aaron ate, injected or snorted steroids of any kind.

How about you? You think the Hammer hid in a bathroom stall before a game and rubbed some mystery cream on his ass in an effort to transform those warning track shots into round trippers?[/quote]

idk but babe probably stuck some hotdogs up his ass :blink:

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Guest ThurmanMunster

[quote name='Lawman' post='272512' date='May 24 2006, 09:28 AM']Did anyone hear on 4th&10 yesterday, that a baseball historian stated that if you were to take Ruth's 400 feet/ plus fly-outs and convert to Homeruns, he would of had approx 1,150 HR's :blink:[/quote]

times change and the pitchers werent as good then.

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[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='272636' date='May 24 2006, 02:36 PM']times change and the pitchers werent as good then.[/quote]

Damn Thurman, how old are you :unsure: Did you catch any games at Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds?
Did you see Grover Alexander,Christy Mathewson, Walter "Freight Train" Johnson, Cy Young pitch?

Babe Ruth 1914-1935

Yankee Stadium in 1923

Fair pole to Fair pole (left to right)

L/Corner = 280.5'
L/Short = 395'
L/Deep=[b]500'[/b]
Center=[b]487'[/b]
R/Deep=[b]429'[/b]
R/Short=[b]350'[/b]
R/Corner=[b]294'[/b]

Babe Ruth hit the first Home Run in Yankee Stadium.
Information gathered from the Basebal Almanac website.

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Guest ThurmanMunster

[quote name='Lawman' post='273003' date='May 25 2006, 08:23 AM']Damn Thurman, how old are you :unsure: Did you catch any games at Ebbets Field, the Polo Grounds?
Did you see Grover Alexander,Christy Mathewson, Walter "Freight Train" Johnson, Cy Young pitch?

Babe Ruth 1914-1935

Yankee Stadium in 1923

Fair pole to Fair pole (left to right)

L/Corner = 280.5'
L/Short = 395'
L/Deep=[b]500'[/b]
Center=[b]487'[/b]
R/Deep=[b]429'[/b]
R/Short=[b]350'[/b]
R/Corner=[b]294'[/b]

Babe Ruth hit the first Home Run in Yankee Stadium.
Information gathered from the Basebal Almanac website.[/quote]

times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on...

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[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273160' date='May 25 2006, 02:16 PM']times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on...[/quote]

You need to stop -_-

The mound was higher, their equipment was not as good and the ballparks were bigger.

They never humidified the baseballs back then, they spit on them then mixed in a little dirt.
Another thing, I truly doubt that a ball would be thrown out and never used again if it was fouled
off or merely hitting the ground. -_-

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[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273160' date='May 25 2006, 02:16 PM']times change, pitchers couldnt throw in the high 80s or the 90s at all for the most part and there wasnt nearly as many pitches to fool a hitter on...[/quote]

The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b]
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Guest ThurmanMunster
[quote name='Lawman' post='273169' date='May 25 2006, 02:31 PM']The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b][/quote]

uh oh 1 guy...him and johnson were beasts and so were a few others, but not many IF any have the stuff that is thrown today. Ruth was extrememly good, but he wasnt the greatest. Id take Bonds, Mays, Gibson over him anyday.
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Guest Master Shake
[quote name='Lawman' post='273169' date='May 25 2006, 02:31 PM']The dominant pitcher of his era, [u]Christy Mathewson won more than 20 games for twelve straight years, including winning 30 or more games for three seasons in a row between 1903 and 1905[/u]. [b]In 1908 he won 37 games[/b], a National League record that still stands. A master craftsman, [b]"Matty" was well known for a screwball-type pitch which was referred to as a "fadeaway", often dominating batters for long periods of time with the pitch. However, Mathewson was certainly not a one-pitch pitcher, as he also had an excellent fastball and changeup, or "slowball" as it was called in Christy's time.[/b][/quote]

The reason pitchers won so many games in those days were because of the innings they were able to pitch because in those days most teams had 2 or 3 sluggers surrounded by scrubs. The depth of talent was no where near what it is today. This allowed good pitchers to coast against the scrubs and save their good stuff for the sluggers or for times they were in a jam. But today they couldn't get away with that shit cause even bottom of the order guys like Brandon Larson and Javier Valentin will take a mistake deep in a second.
You can't say the game was harder in the 20's...that just doesn't make sense. The players were slower, weaker, devoted less time to practice, scouting and TV exposure were insignificant. Ruth today would still be able to hit some homers, but with his slow, looping swing, would have a tough time catching up with the gas pitchers throw today. I'd say give him a year to adjust and he could maybe do something like .280 - 35 - 100. Probably could be better if he grew up in the 70s or 80s, since he was no doubt a physical talent. Just the gap between him and your average player would be much smaller today.
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Guest ThurmanMunster
[quote name='dieselman44' post='273657' date='May 26 2006, 01:20 PM']Well said Mastershake, I keep wondering how players would perform if you put them in different eras and Ive concluded that its pretty much worthless to argue this case because its neverending. But I would LOVE to have seen Ruth play today![/quote]

i woulda rather seen Gibson, ive always wanted to.
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[quote]The depth of talent was no where near what it is today. This allowed good pitchers to coast against the scrubs and save their good stuff for the sluggers or for times they were in a jam. But today they couldn't get away with that shit [u]cause even bottom of the order guys like Brandon Larson and Javier Valentin will take a mistake deep in a second.[/quote][/u]

This is were I disagree, IMO some players today would not be able to "GO DEEP" in those gargantuan ballparks and inferior equipment.
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[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='273758' date='May 26 2006, 03:59 PM']i woulda rather seen Gibson, ive always wanted to.[/quote]

I did, he was over-powering like Don Drysdale.; they both played in the pitchers era (higher mounds).

Today's game has evolved to the benefit of hitters.

The ten best pitchers as ranked by Tom Seaver.

10 Nolan Ryan

9 Warren Spahn

8 Bob Gibson

7 Steve Carlton

6 Bob Feller

5 Cy Young

4 Lefty Grove

3 Sandy Koufax

2 Christy Mathewson

1 Walter Johnson

Edit: He did this in 1994; so you would have to add Roger Clemens, maybe Greg Maddux, not sure if Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling would be on there.
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The 50 greatest Sluggers of all-time according to the Sporting News:

50 Fred McGriff

49 Dale Murphy

48 Carl Yastrzemski

47 Andre Dawson

46 Eddie Murray

45 Dave Winfield

44 George Foster

43 Jim Rice

42 Boog Powell

41 Chuck Klein

40 Johnny Bench

39 Frank Thomas

38 Ted Kluszewski

37 Greg Luzinski

36 Dick Allen

35 Roger Maris

34 Ernie Banks

33 Hack Wilson

32 Dave Kingman

31 Cecil Fielder

30 Juan Gonzalez

[b]29 Barry Bonds[/b]

28 Albert Belle

27 Duke Snider

26 Johnny Mize

25 Stan Musial

24 Joe DiMaggio

23 Rocky Colavito

22 Willie Stargell

21 Sammy Sosa

20 Mel Ott

19 Jose Canseco

18 Frank Howard

17 Eddie Mathews

16 Frank Robinson

15 Hank Greenberg

14 Ralph Kiner

13 Lou Gehrig

12 Ken Griffey, Jr.

11 Willie McCovey

10 Mike Schmidt

9 Ted Williams

8 Reggie Jackson

7 Harmon Killebrew

6 Willie Mays

5 Hank Aaron

4 Mickey Mantle

3 Jimmie Foxx

2 Mark McGwire

[b]1 Babe Ruth[/b]
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[b]"The first time I faced him (Walter Johnson) I watched him take that easy windup and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him....every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park." [/b] - Ty Cobb
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[quote]Ruth was extrememly good, but he wasnt the greatest. Id take Bonds, Mays, Gibson over him anyday.[/quote]

The 100 Greatest players of all time; according to the Sporting News.
[i]Disclaimer: This was done in 1998, definately there would be some changes. I would have to move Bonds up the list (within the top ten) barring and steriod issue.[/i]


100Early Wynn
50Roy Campanella

99Paul Molitor
49Tony Gwynn

98Dennis Eckersley
48Reggie Jackson

97Gaylord Perry
47Buck Leonard

96Rollie Fingers
46Charlie Gehringer

95Wade Boggs
45Carl Hubbell

94Dave Winfield
44Jackie Robinson

93Ken Griffey, Jr.
43Al Simmons

92Chuck Klein
42Mel Ott

91Mark McGwire
41Nolan Ryan

90Ralph Kiner
40Yogi Berra

89Goose Goslin
39Greg Maddux

88Frankie Frisch
38Ernie Banks

87Ozzie Smith
37Hank Greenberg

86Kirby Puckett
36Bob Feller

85Dizzy Dean
35Joe Jackson

84Sam Crawford
[b] 34 Barry Bonds[/b]

83Duke Snider
33George Sisler

82Ed Walsh
32Tom Seaver

81Willie Stargell
31Bob Gibson

80Brooks Robinson
30Steve Carlton

79Joe Medwick
29Nap Lajoie

78Cal Ripken, Jr.
28Mike Schmidt

77Eddie Murray
27Tris Speaker

76Al Kaline
26Sandy Koufax

75Willie Keeler
25Pete Rose

74Robin Roberts
24Eddie Collins

73Lefty Gomez
23Lefty Grove

72Carl Yastrzemski
22Frank Robinson

71Juan Marichal
21Warren Spahn

70Pie Traynor
20Roberto Clemente

69Harmon Killebrew
19Satchel Paige

68Eddie Plank
18Josh Gibson

67Oscar Charleston
17Mickey Mantle

66Cool Papa Bell
16Johnny Bench

65 Mickey Cochrane
15Jimmie Foxx

64Jim Palmer
14Cy Young

63Eddie Mathews
13Honus Wagner

62Paul Waner
12Grover Alexander

61Rod Carew
11Joe DiMaggio

60Joe Morgan
10Stan Musial

59Bill Terry
9Rogers Hornsby

58Lou Brock
8Ted Williams

57Bill Dickey
7Christy Mathewson

56Willie McCovey
6Lou Gehrig

55George Brett
5Hank Aaron

54Harry Heilmann
4Walter Johnson

53Roger Clemens
3Ty Cobb

52Whitey Ford
2Willie Mays

51Rickey Henderson
[b]1Babe Ruth[/b]
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[quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='271447' date='May 22 2006, 04:56 PM']well said. I agree with all that, but i pray Pujols doesnt near it cuz i hate that man. He needs to randomly start sucking all of a sudden in a couple of years.
those are interesting figures for all those Bonds haters.[/quote]


People don't hate Bonds because he used steroids they hate him because he is an asshole
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Guest ThurmanMunster

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='271462' date='May 22 2006, 01:28 PM']yea, because obviously mvp is THE guage to go by when assessing talent

mvp is a popularity contest[/quote]

bonds isnt popular, everyone hates him, so thats a dumb statement.


Bonds is better. He did everything and anything and did it better than anyone.

[quote name='Lawman' post='274077' date='May 27 2006, 05:30 PM']I did, he was over-powering like Don Drysdale.; they both played in the pitchers era (higher mounds).

Today's game has evolved to the benefit of hitters.

The ten best pitchers as ranked by Tom Seaver.

10 Nolan Ryan

9 Warren Spahn

8 Bob Gibson

7 Steve Carlton

6 Bob Feller

5 Cy Young

4 Lefty Grove

3 Sandy Koufax

2 Christy Mathewson

1 Walter Johnson

Edit: He did this in 1994; so you would have to add Roger Clemens, maybe Greg Maddux, not sure if Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling would be on there.[/quote]

i was talking about Josh Gibson ;)


but u HAVE to add Maddux cuz he is better than most of that list.

[quote name='Lawman' post='274085' date='May 27 2006, 05:53 PM']The 50 greatest Sluggers of all-time according to the Sporting News:

50 Fred McGriff

49 Dale Murphy

48 Carl Yastrzemski

47 Andre Dawson

46 Eddie Murray

45 Dave Winfield

44 George Foster

43 Jim Rice

42 Boog Powell

41 Chuck Klein

40 Johnny Bench

39 Frank Thomas

38 Ted Kluszewski

37 Greg Luzinski

36 Dick Allen

35 Roger Maris

34 Ernie Banks

33 Hack Wilson

32 Dave Kingman

31 Cecil Fielder

30 Juan Gonzalez

[b]29 Barry Bonds[/b]

28 Albert Belle

27 Duke Snider

26 Johnny Mize

25 Stan Musial

24 Joe DiMaggio

23 Rocky Colavito

22 Willie Stargell

21 Sammy Sosa

20 Mel Ott

19 Jose Canseco

18 Frank Howard

17 Eddie Mathews

16 Frank Robinson

15 Hank Greenberg

14 Ralph Kiner

13 Lou Gehrig

12 Ken Griffey, Jr.

11 Willie McCovey

10 Mike Schmidt

9 Ted Williams

8 Reggie Jackson

7 Harmon Killebrew

6 Willie Mays

5 Hank Aaron

4 Mickey Mantle

3 Jimmie Foxx

2 Mark McGwire

[b]1 Babe Ruth[/b][/quote]

this is a shitty list LOL!!! Mcgwire 2? Bonds is a HELL of a lot better than mcgwire and there is ATLEAST 100 hitters id rather have the Mcgwire. This list is embarassing.

[quote name='Lawman' post='274104' date='May 27 2006, 06:25 PM']The 100 Greatest players of all time; according to the Sporting News.
[i]Disclaimer: This was done in 1998, definately there would be some changes. I would have to move Bonds up the list (within the top ten) barring and steriod issue.[/i]
100Early Wynn
50Roy Campanella

99Paul Molitor
49Tony Gwynn

98Dennis Eckersley
48Reggie Jackson

97Gaylord Perry
47Buck Leonard

96Rollie Fingers
46Charlie Gehringer

95Wade Boggs
45Carl Hubbell

94Dave Winfield
44Jackie Robinson

93Ken Griffey, Jr.
43Al Simmons

92Chuck Klein
42Mel Ott

91Mark McGwire
41Nolan Ryan

90Ralph Kiner
40Yogi Berra

89Goose Goslin
39Greg Maddux

88Frankie Frisch
38Ernie Banks

87Ozzie Smith
37Hank Greenberg

86Kirby Puckett
36Bob Feller

85Dizzy Dean
35Joe Jackson

84Sam Crawford
[b] 34 Barry Bonds[/b]

83Duke Snider
33George Sisler

82Ed Walsh
32Tom Seaver

81Willie Stargell
31Bob Gibson

80Brooks Robinson
30Steve Carlton

79Joe Medwick
29Nap Lajoie

78Cal Ripken, Jr.
28Mike Schmidt

77Eddie Murray
27Tris Speaker

76Al Kaline
26Sandy Koufax

75Willie Keeler
25Pete Rose

74Robin Roberts
24Eddie Collins

73Lefty Gomez
23Lefty Grove

72Carl Yastrzemski
22Frank Robinson

71Juan Marichal
21Warren Spahn

70Pie Traynor
20Roberto Clemente

69Harmon Killebrew
19Satchel Paige

68Eddie Plank
18Josh Gibson

67Oscar Charleston
17Mickey Mantle

66Cool Papa Bell
16Johnny Bench

65 Mickey Cochrane
15Jimmie Foxx

64Jim Palmer
14Cy Young

63Eddie Mathews
13Honus Wagner

62Paul Waner
12Grover Alexander

61Rod Carew
11Joe DiMaggio

60Joe Morgan
10Stan Musial

59Bill Terry
9Rogers Hornsby

58Lou Brock
8Ted Williams

57Bill Dickey
7Christy Mathewson

56Willie McCovey
6Lou Gehrig

55George Brett
5Hank Aaron

54Harry Heilmann
4Walter Johnson

53Roger Clemens
3Ty Cobb

52Whitey Ford
2Willie Mays

51Rickey Henderson
[b]1Babe Ruth[/b][/quote]

this list is pathetic, where does the sporting news find these morons?


[quote name='Storm' post='274156' date='May 27 2006, 10:37 PM']People don't hate Bonds because he used steroids they hate him because he is an asshole[/quote]

i know this, but he is still a badass and i love him for all of his actions towards the media. I back everything Bonds ever did/said to the media.

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[quote]this is a shitty list LOL!!! Mcgwire 2? Bonds is a HELL of a lot better than mcgwire and there is ATLEAST 100 hitters id rather have the Mcgwire. This list is embarassing.[/quote]

If this based on your on personal opinion, to each his own.

I'll use Aaron for comparison.

[u]Aaron[/u]

Years-23; Games-3,298; AB-[b]12,364[/b]; HR's-755; Slug.%-.[b]555[/b]

[u]Mcgwire[/u]

Years-16; Games-1,874; AB-[b]6,187[/b];HR's-583; Slug.%-.[b]588[/b]

So, if you give Mcgwire the same amount of At-Bats as Aaron, Mcgwire would have 6,177 more At-Bats.

Take 6,177 and divide by a [u]conservative[/u] (1HR per 20AB's); Mcgwire would have 309 more HR's.

Mcgwire would of had [b]892[/b] HR's.

BTW, Mcwire's actual At-Bat/HR's ratio for his career was 10.6; Aaron's was 16.4.


[b]"Any time a guy that big steps up to the plate - they're very few and far between, thank God - it's kind of hard not to notice him standing there. The sun just disappears for a while." - Kevin Brown[/b]
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[quote]but u HAVE to add Maddux cuz he is better than most of that list.[/quote]

I like Maddux; Great Pitcher on very good teams (Braves of the 90's).

Ryan and Carlton played on shitty teams, but would dominate.

Who would you place Maddux ahead of on the list; and why?
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[quote]this list is pathetic, where does the sporting news find these morons?[/quote]

[b]The Sporting News is nothing short of the most respected and legendary magazine / newspaper in sports history. Their coverage of baseball has [u]no rival [/u] and they are simply the most respected source of baseball statistics anywhere and magor contributor towards the Baseball Almanac[/b]
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