CTA513 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Heres how I see it: Lopez: 2005 season = career year... he already has 14 errors and is hitting .268 Career average of around .259 and doesnt have too good of range. Im guessing Phillips will probably take over at shortstop and Bergolla/Castro/Aurilia/Clayton/Freel will take over at second. Kearns: Having a good season, but you can still tell his hand is bothering him. Denorfia will replace him and give the Reds about the same defense (arm probably isnt as strong), will likely have less power but hit for average. I liked Kearns, but his average has been dropping and his strike outs arent much lower than Dunns. He was probably the best defender in the outfield and seemed to have a cannon for an arm. Wagner: Had a good rookie season and got pounded every season after that. Hes getting pounded in AAA and will get pounded in the majors unless he adds another pitch. Like I said before, the thing I really dont like about the trade is getting Clayton and Harris. I would have rather seen them pick up Jon Rauch who would really help out the bullpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='293394' date='Jul 13 2006, 04:47 PM']Heres how I see it: Lopez: 2005 season = career year... he already has 14 errors and is hitting .268 Career average of around .259 and doesnt have too good of range. Im guessing Phillips will probably take over at shortstop and Bergolla/Castro/Aurilia/Clayton/Freel will take over at second. Kearns: Having a good season, but you can still tell his hand is bothering him. Denorfia will replace him and give the Reds about the same defense (arm probably isnt as strong), will likely have less power but hit for average. I liked Kearns, but his average has been dropping and his strike outs arent much lower than Dunns. He was probably the best defender in the outfield and seemed to have a cannon for an arm. Wagner: Had a good rookie season and got pounded every season after that. Hes getting pounded in AAA and will get pounded in the majors unless he adds another pitch. Like I said before, the thing I really dont like about the trade is getting Clayton and Harris. I would have rather seen them pick up Jon Rauch who would really help out the bullpen.[/quote] good assessment... i'm with you... i'm pissed about kearns (don't care about lopez much) but the thing i'm most pissed about who we got in this trade... in my eyes as of now, we got nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|BengalsFREAK| Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Obviously you were fan of Dan O'Brien. He would have never pulled the trigger on this one. He'd have been too busy trading nothing to get nothing. I just heard Krivsky on Lance's show and now I believe in this trade even more than I did before. Harris sounds like a steal. He can play 2nd, short, 3rd AND catcher. We got 2 relievers that have eat innings and with E.R.A's that aren't in the stratosphere, a SS that's more consistant defensively (Krivskey made mention that Lopez's inability to consistantly turn the routine plays was a deciding factor) and some nice prospects. Krivskey also said you can't win if you can't pitch and can't play defense......no matter how good your team is hitting. We all like seeing big numbers on the board, but it's the numbers you don't see that win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhoDeyForever Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [size=7]MAN WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON TODAY??????????????ANYBODY BUT FELO AND KEARNS COME ON KRIVSKY WHAT ARE YOU DOING?[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Holy crap. Hmm. Two pretty good pitchers and a couple of whodats, for our best defensive outfielder, a BP pitcher and a dodgy shortstop. Kearns I'll miss the most. But good pitching is what we sorely lack so it's bearable. Plus the Pena for Arroyo trade seemed shitty at the time and look how that's turned out. Benefit of the doubt then. VB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest #22 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Royce Clayton is 35 years old! Why didn't we deal Ross or Larue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselman44 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I like this trade, atfirst i was alittle upset mainly because i thought we could get more. But the more i look at this trade the more it makes sense to me. I think Felo had a career year last year and came back to earth this year. You cant have someone a SS with that much inability to make a routine play. Altought i would have liked to see Kearns alittle more i still think we can insert Denorfia and not lose a step. Wags, well wags must have been drinking the same shit as john rocker. He was lights out for his first year and then somehow forgot how to pitch. Like BengalFreak said. we improved our overall defense and bullpen, meanwhile losing nothing at the plate. I liked Kearns a lot but you cant let you heart get in the way. Dont look at the name look at the stats. Bottomline is we are a better OVERALL team today then we were yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 We didn't deal Larue because no-one's that dumb. VB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='293336' date='Jul 13 2006, 03:40 PM']i heard the name scott williamson so far... that is all... and it was quick on lance's show... he didn't say anything more about it... [b]how the fuck are we trading anyone except dunn right now? [/b] makes zero sense to me... i'd rather have kearns all day and twice on sunday, over dunn....[/quote] Krivsky pretty much said to Andy Furman a bit ago that Dunn was untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='293359' date='Jul 13 2006, 04:08 PM']we traded 2 starters and a guy who had a good chance at being our closer this year, for 4 guys i've never heard of, and one that i have his 1989 topps baseball card... holy shit, this is bad... and kearns is having a great year... dunn is teh streaky one [/quote] sorry man, but you're an idiot. Lopez was completely expendable and a liability on defense. Freel, Aurillia, and Castro will all be able to fill in defensively, along with Clayton. Kearns was not having a great year. Wagner was getting lit up in the minors, and you thought he was going to be our fucking closer this year??? Wagner is done. Bowden and O'Brien fucked him up. Think of it this way people, we traded Kearns defense for two quality relief pitchers and a shortstop. We also got two more prospects as well. Pretty good trade IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 first let me say that at first i was furious, but after closely going over all of the numbers they seem to favor us. now, after thats been said, why in the fuck couldnt we get rid of dunn and someone else? why the fuck did we get rid of lopez and kearns? anyways, we are better off for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='bengalrick' post='293373' date='Jul 13 2006, 04:23 PM']i'm less comfortable now, now that we don't have a quality RF or SS... and our bench just got worse... and who the hell do we have to make up for it[b]? i haven't heard of any of these pitchers... [/b] maybe their performance will change my mind, but we just traded for 5 players from one of the worst teams in MLB...[/quote] ever considered that you don't know much about baseball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starkesn Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I bet we trade one of the catchers here soon for outfield help. We are real thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest schotzee Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I won't complain about most any trade that acquires you some decent pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='293483' date='Jul 13 2006, 06:41 PM']ever considered that you don't know much about baseball?[/quote] you sure are taking a lot of shots at someone who is pretty knowledgable about baseball and the reds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='293522' date='Jul 13 2006, 07:21 PM']you sure are taking a lot of shots at someone who is pretty knowledgable about baseball and the reds...[/quote] its not a shot so much as it is pointing out the fact that just because you dont recognize a name does not guarantee that the players are of inferior quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 [quote name='JC' post='293522' date='Jul 13 2006, 07:21 PM']you sure are taking a lot of shots at someone who is pretty knowledgable about baseball and the reds...[/quote] that remains to be seen, lol. The fact that he thinks Wagner was going to be our closer by the end of the year kills any credibility he may "have" Everyone with the team with the exception of Dunn is very upbeat about this trade. Most true experts have said its a good trade as well. The only considerable thing we gave up in this trade was Kearns' defense, and we'll survive without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 I haven't posted in awhile... But anyone who thinks this trade is bad for the Reds or "terrible" are crazy... Isn't there a thread on the site right now "GET US BULLPEN HELP" and now everyone on here is crying because we gave up a SS who has returned to his shitty defensive form, a cry baby closer in AAA, and Austin Kearns (who we have given more than enough chances to pan out). IN return, we got a 23 old who throws 90-94 with a nasty curve, a 26 year old who was on the US team in this years WBC who throws upper 90s, a sure thing defensively at short (and compare his numbers with Lopez this year and tell me what you see), a young infielder who reminds many of a young Edwin, and a project pitcher. Some people crack me up... This isn't a Sean Casey for No one salary dump type of deal... This is a trade that immediately makes our team better both defensively, and in the pen, and I would argue even at the plate (I personally believe Denorfia will have a better career than Kearns. He is playing unreal in AAA, hits for average, has speed, and has deceptive power). Quit bitching people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='293571' date='Jul 13 2006, 08:21 PM']I haven't posted in awhile... But anyone who thinks this trade is bad for the Reds or "terrible" are crazy... Isn't there a thread on the site right now "GET US BULLPEN HELP" and now everyone on here is crying because we gave up a SS who has returned to his shitty defensive form, a cry baby closer in AAA, and Austin Kearns (who we have given more than enough chances to pan out). IN return, we got a 23 old who throws 90-94 with a nasty curve, a 26 year old who was on the US team in this years WBC who throws upper 90s, a sure thing defensively at short (and compare his numbers with Lopez this year and tell me what you see), a young infielder who reminds many of a young Edwin, and a project pitcher. Some people crack me up... This isn't a Sean Casey for No one salary dump type of deal... This is a trade that immediately makes our team better both defensively, and in the pen, and I would argue even at the plate (I personally believe Denorfia will have a better career than Kearns. He is playing unreal in AAA, hits for average, has speed, and has deceptive power). Quit bitching people...[/quote] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/41.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Entertainer Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 This is a great trade!! We have 2 very good relief pitchers now (time to dump Yan), a great defensive shortstop who can still hit and good prospects. All we gave up is a shortstop who has too many errors, an outfield who was on pace to strikeout 131 times and a pitcher who can't find his way back to majors. Now is the time for Denorfia to step into Kearns' spots. Denorfia has torn it up in AAA and we all know that his time is now. Now, if we can just get rid of Larue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 "THE TRADE" ROUND 1 Felipe vs. Clayton Lopez: 85 games, 343 AB, 55 Runs, 92 hits, 9 bombs, 30 RBIs, .268 avg, .355 OBP, 14 Errors Clayton: 87 games, 305 AB, 36 Runs, 82 hits, 0 bombs, 27 RBIs, .269 avg, .315 OBP, 11 Errors Not losing too much here except Felipe's salary... This allows Phillips to move to SS this offseason Round 1 winner: Lopez (more ABs, plus top of the lineup allows him to score more runs, but still has better power numbers giving him the nod) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest schotzee Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Off topic Reds up 4-1 bottom 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 "THE TRADE" Round 2 Wagner vs. Majewski (stats were from 2005 to be fair to Wagner cry baby ass) Wagner: 6.11 ERA, 42 games, 45.2 innings, 39 ks, 1.60 WHIP Majewski: 2.93 ERA, 79 games, 86 innings, 50 ks, 1.36 WHIP 2006 Majewski 3.58 ERA, 46 games, 55.1 innings, 34 ks, 1.34 WHIP Round 2 winner: Majewski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 ROUND 3 Bray vs. our bullpen Bray: 3.91 ERA, 19 games, 23 innings, 16ks, 1.43 WHIP Bullpen: i can't find average stats for them, but we all know how shitty they are Round 3 winner: Bray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|Bunghole| Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 This is as good as it gets for the mid-market Reds, folks. I for one am happy, as I think we gave up very little on offense for some young, talented relief pitching. GO REDS! It isn't like we were going to get a Trevor Hoffman or anything, we had to take a gamble on young relief pitching, plain and simple.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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