Palmer4HOF Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 I read the game 3 thread where some accused Majewski of sucking because he had a bad outing... Take a look at the other half of the equation: Kearns: 1 for 12, 3 walks, 1 run (12 runners left on base) Lopez: 1 for 13, 3 walks (13 runners left on base) So between them, they have stranded 25 runners left on base, and are 2 for 25 (a .125 batting avg) My point is, you can't judge a guy by 2 or 3 games. You have to look at the rest of this season or even the whole season before you can really say "he sucks, i want kearns and felipe back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnDaMan7 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 To continue on with this thread it seem as though Lopez is doing not much better going 4 for 29 with two runs scored and one stolen base. While Kearns has been hitting a little better going 4 for 21 with 1 run scored. It seems as though there wasn't much of a drop off in production as Kearn's right field replacement Denorfia has gone 4 for 22 with 0 runs, but he had two big RBIs to beat the Rockies. It seems as though this trade has really helped Royce Clayton find his bat as he has gone 9 for 23 with 3 runs scored and 2 SB's. So far this trade seems as though it was worth it just in the offensive numbers. Now I know that Kearns and Lopez will probably heat up and Clayton will cool off, but I think the biggest impact of this trade has been the message that the front office has sent to the players by showing them they are not afraid to make trades if players aren't going to play to their potential. So far it seems to be working, as we are 6-2 and the bullpen has been excellent as of late. I don't have to look any further than the 7 shutout innings pitched by 6 different relievers against the Mets, who are arguably the best offensive team in the NL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 We aren't going to come out of this trade on top offensively...simply impossible. Clayton has been hitting well...its just unfortunate he has negative power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='298574' date='Jul 22 2006, 11:36 AM']We aren't going to come out of this trade on top offensively...simply impossible. Clayton has been hitting well...its just unfortunate he has negative power.[/quote] I don't get why you say that? Can you pull stats that can help proove that? I mean, getting rid of Lopez allows Freel and Aurilia more playing time and both have been hitting well this year. Kearns wasn't doing all that great this year anyways, and has never had a great, full year. He never had a year where we can say, "wow, we are sure going to miss those numbers". I just think it's too hard to say that we won't come out a better offensive team when all is said and done. Felipe is showing his signs of the old times before his allstar year and Kearns is now showing that he swings for the fences with every swing. I think we'll be alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinnDaMan7 Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 I think this trade was necessary, we needed to upgrade and solidify our bullpen for now and for the future. We rid ourselves of a young outfielder with great potential, which is too bad, but we needed to call up Denorfia, because he is another guy with unlimited potential that needed to get major league at-bats. We also rid ourselves of a below average fielding SS who has speed and a decent bat. I think Krivsky will be able to work some of his magic in his first offseason as GM to bring in offensive talent and defense to that position. And don't get me started on losing Ryan Wagner, Bowden screwed that guy's future when he didn't give him time to develop in the minors. Making the majors the same year your drafted is unheard of, this only makes me respect Krivsky more knowing that he is going to leave Bailey in the minors to develop into a more solid pitcher even though it is tempting to bring him up now. Remember Krivsky was part of the front office with the Twins that traded AJ Pierzynski to the Giants for Joe Nathan (all-star) and Liriano (all-star). Krivsky knows what to look for in pitchers and he knows how much work they need in the minors, if Krivsky believes this was a good trade I trust him, he has had nothing but the golden touch with his signings since he started. I live up in North Dakota which is Twins country and I heard the Twins GM Terry Ryan talk about losing Krivsky, he said it is going to be quite a blow to the organization because of all the hard work Krivsky put in, he gave him alot of credit for the Twins excellent minor league system. With Krivky and Castenelli at the helm, all I see is good times in the future for our Reds. A owner who is willing to do what it takes to compete and win, and a tough, smart, and very knowledgeable GM are going to work wonders for our major league club and all of the minor league affiliates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 just as a point of note, we are 7-2 since the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='298964' date='Jul 22 2006, 10:07 PM']just as a point of note, we are 7-2 since the trade.[/quote] and have won many games due to our bullpen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='298657' date='Jul 22 2006, 01:24 PM']I don't get why you say that? Can you pull stats that can help proove that? I mean, getting rid of Lopez allows Freel and Aurilia more playing time and both have been hitting well this year. Kearns wasn't doing all that great this year anyways, and has never had a great, full year. He never had a year where we can say, "wow, we are sure going to miss those numbers". I just think it's too hard to say that we won't come out a better offensive team when all is said and done. Felipe is showing his signs of the old times before his allstar year and Kearns is now showing that he swings for the fences with every swing. I think we'll be alright[/quote] Freedom of Speech is why I can say that. Freel, in his only extended time starting hit in the low .200's (when Griffey was hurt). That's how I can say that. Aurillia is old (has a hot bat right now, but isn't a long term solution on offense or defense or anywhere...plus EE should be playing over him). Lopez is in a slump. Period. The guy has shown he can hit at the major league level. Kearns is better than Aurillia, and no argument could ever be made to justify anything differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='299208' date='Jul 23 2006, 01:33 PM']Freedom of Speech is why I can say that. Freel, in his only extended time starting hit in the low .200's (when Griffey was hurt). That's how I can say that. Aurillia is old (has a hot bat right now, but isn't a long term solution on offense or defense or anywhere...plus EE should be playing over him). Lopez is in a slump. Period. The guy has shown he can hit at the major league level. Kearns is better than Aurillia, and no argument could ever be made to justify anything differently.[/quote] smooth and lopez: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Lopez - 2 for 4 yesterday with a run scored. 2-3 so far today with 2 RBI...almost looks like he's coming out of his slump. Its simply a ludacris and uneducated thought to think we're somehow better offensively because of this trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='299214' date='Jul 23 2006, 01:49 PM']smooth and lopez: [/quote] sm00th_kw Bengals 1181 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='299217' date='Jul 23 2006, 02:02 PM'] sm00th_kw Bengals 1181[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='299216' date='Jul 23 2006, 01:58 PM']Lopez - 2 for 4 yesterday with a run scored. 2-3 so far today with 2 RBI...almost looks like he's coming out of his slump. [b]Its simply a ludacris and uneducated thought to think we're somehow better offensively because of this trade.[/b][/quote] thats not the fuckin point of the trade. We had PLENTY of offense and not enough defense or pitching. So we upgraded our pitching AND defense without giving up our top bats. We gave up 2 guys who strikeout too much, lack clutch abilities and one who wouldnt be a SS in little league cuz his defense sucks ass. We dont need the # 1 offense in the NL to compete. We need a top 5 offense and a top 10 pitching in the NL to compete. We didnt lose enough to knock us out as a top 5 offense. The only way people dont like this trade is either homosexual feelings for Lopez or Kearns or just lack of intelligence. I was one of the biggest Lopez fans in baseball, but atleast i can admit he sucked complete ass in the field and last year was his career year and he will never be that good again. He is a 260-270 hitter with 20 HR potential and a lot of K's with hundreds of errors. He aint worth it. If you hit a groundball to him u had no clue if it was really gonna be an out or not. If you count the # of runs he gives up compared to the # of runs he created, royce clayton is probably better for us and he is just a 1 or 2 year rental. Lopez just wasnt that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Claptonrocks Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I think the trade will pan out in favor of the Reds down the road.. can never have enough decent arms anymore ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 [quote name='ThurmanMunster' post='299240' date='Jul 23 2006, 02:55 PM']thats not the fuckin point of the trade. We had PLENTY of offense and not enough defense or pitching. So we upgraded our pitching AND defense without giving up our top bats. We gave up 2 guys who strikeout too much, lack clutch abilities and one who wouldnt be a SS in little league cuz his defense sucks ass. We dont need the # 1 offense in the NL to compete. We need a top 5 offense and a top 10 pitching in the NL to compete. We didnt lose enough to knock us out as a top 5 offense. The only way people dont like this trade is either homosexual feelings for Lopez or Kearns or just lack of intelligence. I was one of the biggest Lopez fans in baseball, but atleast i can admit he sucked complete ass in the field and last year was his career year and he will never be that good again. He is a 260-270 hitter with 20 HR potential and a lot of K's with hundreds of errors. He aint worth it. If you hit a groundball to him u had no clue if it was really gonna be an out or not. If you count the # of runs he gives up compared to the # of runs he created, royce clayton is probably better for us and he is just a 1 or 2 year rental. Lopez just wasnt that good.[/quote] Oh, oh really? Thanks captain obvious...would've never guessed. Palmer4HOF was trying to convince somebody that our offense is somehow equally as potent without Kearns and Lopez in it because they went through slumps in the first 7 games after the trade. That's almost as dumb as wanting to trade Adam Dunn or to not play Edwin Encarnacion....or to ever have Joe Mays pitch to another batter. You may want to try reading the whole thread next time...we all know the reasons for the trade. You've got to be freaking kidding yourself if you think we've somehow upgraded defensively with this trade. At SS, you either take Lopez (who has maybe five more errors than Clayton this year) and his ability to get to more balls than Clayton could dream of. Or a guy that will make the play (Clayton) IF you hit the ball to him...because he sure as shit ain't going up the middle or in the hole to get anything. He's far to old and slow. Then you take Austin Kearns...potentially one of the best defensive RF's in the game today (with a top 3 arm) and you're gonna sit there and tell me we're better here somehow with what we've got? BULL FUCKING SHIT. You think Kearns has the brain fart Denorfia had in the rubber game against the Mets last Thursday that led to the two runs in a tied 10th inning game? No. And why is that? BECAUSE KEARNS IS BETTER DEFENSIVELY! If you knew half as much as you act like you know about Felipe Lopez and his career you'd realize he obviously wasn't ready when he was rushed to the major's in Toronto and his stats reflected that. At the end of the (mind you, this is AFTER the career threatening Ankle injury he suffered the season before, stunting his development) '04 season, if you remember, is when Felipe started turing things on. He played very well in the spring of '05 but Miley obviously wanted Aurillia to start at SS, and when he got hurt Felipe took his position and never gave it back. This year (yes, I understand he's hitting in the .260's now) he was hitting quite well for most of the first half until he went into a recent slump and now everybody acting like he's never hit a baseball in his life. That is stupid. I'm sorry, it just is. He was not a one year wonder, he hit well when he came up at the end of '04 through '05 and at the start of '06. One slump doesn't change the fact that he's a lot better at the plate than all of you give him credit for. Out of his 1,700+ career AB's, 800+ AB's came when the guy clearly wasn't ready to play in the big's...that'll drag down anybody's career AVG. How many Errors did Barry Larkin commit in 1988? 29....shit happens. Learn the game of baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CincyInDC Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I have already seen Kearns throw dudes out at home plate since coming to the Nats, and he'd have at least one more had Schneider not dropped that ball Saturday afternoon. He has an amazing cannon, and the Reds will miss it dearly. They won't miss the fact that he's pretty fragile, though. I sat in right field Saturday, and a large section of fans were chanting for him--probably on account of that solo home run he hit to dead center. He turned, smiled, and waved. I hope this means he pulls out of that funk now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='299859' date='Jul 24 2006, 02:59 PM']Oh, oh really? Thanks captain obvious...would've never guessed. Palmer4HOF was trying to convince somebody that our offense is somehow equally as potent without Kearns and Lopez in it because they went through slumps in the first 7 games after the trade. That's almost as dumb as wanting to trade Adam Dunn or to not play Edwin Encarnacion....or to ever have Joe Mays pitch to another batter. You may want to try reading the whole thread next time...we all know the reasons for the trade.[/quote] I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything... In other threads, people were blasting this trade because Manjewski had a so called "bad outing" and he "sucks because of that" and we "should have kept lopez and kearns because Manjewski and Clayton suck". My whole point is, you can't judge what this trade is or will be in a 10 game span. Then you responded that our Offense will lessen... My point there was that this trade allows more playing time for guys who have been better offensively this year than Lopez and Kearns (Aurillia and Freel) and also allows Denorfia to get a chance and we can upgrade defensively at short with Castro. Im not a huge fan of you taking my posts and using them out of context... I never once tried to justify anything by Kearns and Lopez being in a slump. I'm talking about them this year and thier careers. Please re-read my posts and then you'll realize what whole point was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='299859' date='Jul 24 2006, 02:59 PM']Then you take Austin Kearns...potentially one of the best defensive RF's in the game today (with a top 3 arm) and you're gonna sit there and tell me we're better here somehow with what we've got? BULL FUCKING SHIT.[/quote] Top 3 arm? I don't even think he has the best arm on his team for right fielders! I would say Guillen has a better arm than his... Also, I would take Franceour, Ichiro, and Vlads arm over Kearns and those are just 4 guys I can think of off the top of my head. I think we are all over rating Kearns a tad bit here because he was on the Reds. He was a good defensive Right Fielder, but hes no all star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTA513 Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Freel is going to play more in right field than Denorfia. Going from Kearns to Freel is not a drop off defensively, but a drop off offensively. Freel has 1 more outfield assist this year than Kearns and hes played over 300 less innings in the outfield. If the Reds want to put out the best offensive line up they would need to let Encarnacion play 3rd more and then have Aurilia play SS that way Hatteberg can still be in the line up and play 1st. I also wouldnt have a problem with Aurilia playing 2nd and Phillips moving back to SS, but I dont see them changing Phillips position till next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengals1181 Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='299982' date='Jul 24 2006, 05:17 PM']Freel is going to play more in right field than Denorfia. Going from Kearns to Freel is not a drop off defensively, but a drop off offensively. Freel has 1 more outfield assist this year than Kearns and hes played over 300 less innings in the outfield. If the Reds want to put out the best offensive line up they would need to let Encarnacion play 3rd more and then have Aurilia play SS that way Hatteberg can still be in the line up and play 1st. I also wouldnt have a problem with Aurilia playing 2nd and Phillips moving back to SS, but I dont see them changing Phillips position till next year.[/quote] I'd argue, all things considered, that Freel is an offensive upgrade over Kearns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmer4HOF Posted July 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 [quote name='Bengals1181' post='300075' date='Jul 24 2006, 07:48 PM']I'd argue, all things considered, that Freel is an offensive upgrade over Kearns.[/quote] For sake of argument: Freel: 271 AB 45 R 82 H 7 HR 20 RBI 33 BB 52 SO 22 SB .390 OBP .461 SLG .303 AVG Kearns353 AB 55 R 95 H 17 HR 51 RBI 43 BB 90 SO 8 SB .356 OBP .486 SLG .270 AVG Power or avg.... pick your favorite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Freel has proven he can't play everyday though...Narron's done a good job with him this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 [quote name='CTA513' post='299982' date='Jul 24 2006, 05:17 PM']Freel has 1 more outfield assist this year than Kearns and hes played over 300 less innings in the outfield.[/quote] Freel is very good on the defensive side of the ball, however, as a third base coach, if Austin Kearns is out there picking up the ball readying to throw you throw up the stop sign far more often than when you see Ryan Freel pick up that same ball. Also doesn't help the fact that David Ross made it a habit of dropping throws to home from the outfield on seeminly a fair amount of Kearns' throws home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThurmanMunster Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 [quote name='sm00th_kw' post='300200' date='Jul 24 2006, 10:12 PM']Freel is very good on the defensive side of the ball, however, as a third base coach, if Austin Kearns is out there picking up the ball readying to throw you throw up the stop sign far more often than when you see Ryan Freel pick up that same ball. Also doesn't help the fact that David Ross made it a habit of dropping throws to home from the outfield on seeminly a fair amount of Kearns' throws home...[/quote] kearns may have a strong arm but his accuracy is horrid. Freel has a much better overall arm than him and he can get to balls much quicker than him to get the good angles to make even better throws and to prepare himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm00th_kw Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 Freel is quicker, yes. The rest, if you actually believe that Ryan Freel (you know who this is, right?) has a BETTER arm than Austin Kearns, you can't be serious...nobody that knows anything about baseball would agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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