|BengalsFREAK| Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 First off, I am a non smoker. I've never even tried a cigarette and I am 30 years old. However, I do work in 3 different bars and clubs as a DJ. I don't like cigarette smoke, but it IS something that smokers like to do FREQUENTLY when they drink. Welllll, the state of Ohio voters just approved a law that says you cannot smoke inside of ANY business. Restuarants, bars, hotels....none of them. As much as the non-smoker in me celebrates this, the businessman in me has some issues. Will this slow down my places of employment? Will this in the end affect my job and how I am paid (which in all 3 clubs, my pay is based on the clubs performance). I always saw second hand smoke as a necessary evil when I worked in clubs....I knew it was there before I started, and if it was so bad, I could have left at any time. I really feel violated by our own voters and government that they're going to make that decision for me. What's next? Making it a law for me to not eat as much so that I don't get even fatter? lol. Also, I wonder how long this law will last? I wonder how many lobbyists and special interest groups are going to try to work their magic in order to get an appeal? Or will they just accept defeat and move on to the next battleground? I'm extremly shocked that this actually passed! There was a more leniant smokers bill up for passage that didn't even come close to passing. Were all the smokers too winded to walk to the polls today? lol Anyhoo, in closing, this seems like a personal liberty violation to me. Especially in a bar, where secondhand smoke is likely the least of your worries. (Johnny might get drunk and kill 4 people on the way home, but by God he didn't take 2 second off their lives with his cigarette!!) I can understand it in an Airplane where ventilation is hard to come by without sucking your fellow passengers out of the window.....but in a bar? Enlighten me people....I welcome your opinions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nati Ice Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 i dont like this, simply because its just another big brother approach to a simple question that needed a simple answer. what the fuck ever happened to choice? i dont even smoke, but ill be damned. theres gonna be a hell of a lot of small businesses hurting because of this dumbfuck law. you go to a bar to get fucked up, if youre so worried about inhaling smoke as you poison your liver then either dont go out or stick with bars who choose to limit inside smoking. on the plus side, dewines no longer in office, strickland got elected over blackwell, and minimum wage will be increased for the first time in a decade to $6.85 starting in the new year. so, adding all of that up with the dems gaining the house and pretty much splitting the senate, i couldnt be happier. im more of a blue dog dem if anything, so, personally, i am really pleased with how all of this turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 When I was in Key West last year the bars were smoke free, didn't seem to affect their business, everyone had to go outside to lite up. I guess bars are going to designate an outdoor smoking area should make it easier to sneak outside and fire up a fattie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatScratchFever Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 The way the law is written, bars and restaurants cannot allow smoking in a place where smoke can even drift inside, meaning any outdoor smoking areas must be away from doors and windows. The bars that I frequent will have a difficult time complying with that. I am horrified that the voters of Ohio have allowed the government to take away our freedom of choice in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CincyInDC Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Columbus, Cleveland, Athens, Oxford small businesses will be fine. Bars may lose patrons, but they will gain just as many if not more. Cincinnati will probably be fine, but there is the risk of people going across the river to hit an establishment where they can light up. But consider the Montgomery County (Maryland) smoking ban, or the Lexington, KY smoking ban--it hasn't negatively affected their economies like many decried, and there are smoking jurisdictions within a reasonable distance. As for big brother and choice I have mixed emotions; yeah, it's pretty authoritarian getting told by the govenment how to behave, but to say a smoking ban will lead to a fascist state is a slippery slope fallacy (no one here was saying that). I don't smoke and I like not stinking like an ashtray after a night of drinking. So the selfish part of me rejoices. I don't have a choice when it comes to higher medical insurance premiums that help pay for smokers' cancer, emphysema, etc. treatments. DC is going smoke free on January 1st, and I'm looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Whats next? thats what I'm worried about, I'm sure that someone can find a stat that being around people that consume alcohol is risky behavior and possibly dangerous to your health, won't be long that you won't be able to consume alcohol at a bar or restaurant When they start taking your freedoms away they don't have a stopping point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CincyInDC Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Storm' post='381520' date='Nov 8 2006, 08:08 AM']Whats next? thats what I'm worried about, I'm sure that someone can find a stat that being around people that consume alcohol is risky behavior and possibly dangerous to your health, won't be long that you won't be able to consume alcohol at a bar or restaurant When they start taking your freedoms away they don't have a stopping point[/quote] Smoking in a bar isn't the stolen freedom we really need to be worrying about. So many other stolen freedoms take the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='381521' date='Nov 8 2006, 01:13 PM']Smoking in a bar isn't the stolen freedom we really need to be worrying about. So many other stolen freedoms take the cake.[/quote] Thats my point, any freedom taken away is something we should be worrying about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steggyD Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Welcome to the 21st century Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_dish Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 They say this wont hurt Ohio, as the 13 other states that have passed this law have not seen a decline in bar business. Well, how many other fucking states have entertainment districts in other states just 300 yards away? There is no way this should have been passed without Kentucky passing one first. I dont smoke, but that is bullshit. I have no problem with people going outside, and I think they should, but this is kinda kicking a dog while its down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I like this for selfish reasons, but the liberitarian inside me cries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodey319 Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 i dont think this is really a big brother kind of thing. Big brother is when the legislature passes the laws not when the majority of voters vote on it. this wasnt even something i care about because cigarette smoke doesnt bother me. And bars dont worry, ive been enough places that dont allow smoking and it didnt affect business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bengalrick Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Ben' post='381554' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:24 AM']I like this for selfish reasons, but the liberitarian inside me cries.[/quote] i live in northern kentucky and just quit smoking, so yeah... i also like it for personal reasons... kentucky, especially newport and covington should benefit well from this.... but they just voted for something that bends them over and fucks them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Call me old fashioned, but if YOU pay taxes on YOUR business, YOU should be allowed to say whether or not YOU want to allow people to smoke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CincyInDC Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='oldschooler' post='381583' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:58 AM']Call me old fashioned, but if YOU pay taxes on YOUR business, YOU should be allowed to say whether or not YOU want to allow people to smoke...[/quote] Businesses paying taxes is a fantasy. They pass the cost to the consumer. Business owners who know what they're doing pay less personal income tax than you would think. They have their businesses own their cars, homes, boats, timeshares, etc. then they officially pay themselves enough for the rest of their budget. Well...that's what the smart ones do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='381590' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:18 AM']Businesses paying taxes is a fantasy. They pass the cost to the consumer. Business owners who know what they're doing pay less personal income tax than you would think. They have their businesses own their cars, homes, boats, timeshares, etc. then they officially pay themselves enough for the rest of their budget. Well...that's what the smart ones do.[/quote] So ? If they pass the cost on to the consumer, and the consumer doesn`t want to go there because they allow smoking, then how does any of that affect YOU ? It shouldn`t be up to the Government or voters to decide. Ecspecially seeing how the majority of voters are non-smokers. It`s kind of like a Mob Rules mentality. I don`t like to smoke or go anywhere where smoking is allowed, so YOU shouldn`t either. It`s bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CincyInDC Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='oldschooler' post='381602' date='Nov 8 2006, 10:33 AM']So ? If they pass the cost on to the consumer, and the consumer doesn`t want to go there because they allow smoking, then how does any of that affect YOU ? It shouldn`t be up to the Government or voters to decide. Ecspecially seeing how the majority of voters are non-smokers. It`s kind of like a Mob Rules mentality. I don`t like to smoke or go anywhere where smoking is allowed, so YOU shouldn`t either. It`s bullshit.[/quote] I agree that it's bullshit, but my selfishness doesn't care that it's bullshit. Chalk it up to "life's not fair." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='381607' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:38 AM']I agree that it's bullshit, but my selfishness doesn't care that it's bullshit. Chalk it up to "life's not fair."[/quote] Selfish would be if there is a bar or resturant that you love to go to, but they allowed smoking, and now they aren`t allowed to. You benefit from that personally. Being happy that places you have no interest in going to, that you`ve never spent a dime in, not even being able to allow smoking, isn`t being selfish, it`s called being an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bengal_Smoov Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I live in NY, you can't smoke in any type of public establishment and it doesn't hurt business, if anything it gives smokers something to bond over. As someone who doesn't smoke cigarettes I don't have any problem with the law, especially given the health risk involved in second hand smoke. 6 months from now you won't even notice and your place of employment won't suffer, trust me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 I find it funny that on some issues people say, "Well... The voters have spoken", then on others everyone gets pissed off, "The voters shouldnt decide!!!!" /against issue 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='CincyInDC' post='381607' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:38 AM']I agree that it's bullshit, but my selfishness doesn't care that it's bullshit. Chalk it up to "life's not fair."[/quote] This line just ran right through me. I guess you`re so self centered that you only give a fuck about shit that affects you ? My point at the beginning about business owners that pay taxes should be able to say what they will allow in their business still stands. If you hate being around smoke so much, then avoid the places that allow smoking. If a business owner hates smoking so much, then ban it from your establishment. For people that don`t smoke telling business owners they don`t have a right or choice to decide is beyond bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Ben' post='381614' date='Nov 8 2006, 09:53 AM']I find it funny that on some issues people say, "Well... The voters have spoken", then on others everyone gets pissed off, "The voters shouldnt decide!!!!" /against issue 5[/quote] So you`re equating Gay marriage to whether or not a business owner should be allowed to decide if he should allow smoking ? We`re not talking about a business owner allowing a crime to be commited. Last time I checked. it`s still legal to buy, possess and use tobacco... for now anyway. Anyway, I have never said "the voters have spoken." I don`t agree with Gay marriages. Hell, I don`t agree with Marriage at all. I`ve been married, it was the worst 3 years of my life. I think gay couples should have the rights though. But I also think straight couples should have rights too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='oldschooler' post='381620' date='Nov 8 2006, 11:10 AM']So you`re equating Gay marriage to whether or not a business owner should be allowed to decide if he should allow smoking ? We`re not talking about a business owner allowing a crime to be commited. Last time I checked. it`s still legal to buy, possess and use tobacco... for now anyway. Anyway, I have never said "the voters have spoken." I don`t agree with Gay marriages. Hell, I don`t agree with Marriage at all. I`ve been married, it was the worst 3 years of my life. I think gay couples should have the rights though. But I also think straight couples should have rights too...[/quote] Wow i never even said the words Gay Marriage... But that is a good example of the flip flopping [quote]It shouldn`t be up to the Government or voters to decide. Ecspecially seeing how the majority of voters are non-smokers. It`s kind of like a Mob Rules mentality.[/quote] It should not be up to the voters or government to decide on gay marriage. Especially since the majority are niether gay or married. btw, i wasnt personally going after you old. This entire board seems to be guilty of this.....democracy is great! as long as the voters agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldschooler Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='Ben' post='381626' date='Nov 8 2006, 10:19 AM']Wow i never even said the words Gay Marriage... But that is a good example of the flip flopping It should not be up to the voters or government to decide on gay marriage. Especially since the majority are niether gay or married.[/quote] Marriage is a legal binding of two people. You have to go to court to end it. You have to go to a public office and get a marriage liscence to even start it. I don`t have to go get a liscence to buy a pack of cigarettes. Smoking isn`t illegal, being gay isn`t illegal. But smoking at a public place is now as illegal as two gays fucking on a table in a bar or resturant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooky Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 [quote name='BengalsFREAK' post='381479' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:43 AM']First off, I am a non smoker. I've never even tried a cigarette and I am 30 years old. However, I do work in 3 different bars and clubs as a DJ. I don't like cigarette smoke, but it IS something that smokers like to do FREQUENTLY when they drink. Welllll, the state of Ohio voters just approved a law that says you cannot smoke inside of ANY business. Restuarants, bars, hotels....none of them. As much as the non-smoker in me celebrates this, the businessman in me has some issues. Will this slow down my places of employment? Will this in the end affect my job and how I am paid (which in all 3 clubs, my pay is based on the clubs performance). I always saw second hand smoke as a necessary evil when I worked in clubs....I knew it was there before I started, and if it was so bad, I could have left at any time. I really feel violated by our own voters and government that they're going to make that decision for me. What's next? Making it a law for me to not eat as much so that I don't get even fatter? lol. Also, I wonder how long this law will last? I wonder how many lobbyists and special interest groups are going to try to work their magic in order to get an appeal? Or will they just accept defeat and move on to the next battleground? I'm extremly shocked that this actually passed! There was a more leniant smokers bill up for passage that didn't even come close to passing. Were all the smokers too winded to walk to the polls today? lol Anyhoo, in closing, this seems like a personal liberty violation to me. Especially in a bar, where secondhand smoke is likely the least of your worries. (Johnny might get drunk and kill 4 people on the way home, but by God he didn't take 2 second off their lives with his cigarette!!) I can understand it in an Airplane where ventilation is hard to come by without sucking your fellow passengers out of the window.....but in a bar? Enlighten me people....I welcome your opinions![/quote] Couldn't agree more. I don't smoke and I hate cigarette smoke, but I voted no on 4 and 5. This has nothing to do with smoking and everything to do with telling private business owners what to do. If it's about the smoke, don't go to the joint. How hard is it? This is just a matter of bossing people around. It should be up to the owner to have as much or little smoke in his place as he wants. Why should it be up to voters that are never going to step foot in his place? If you voted yes, you're saying "I don't like smoke so everywhere i go should be free of it. I also don't like beer, so where ever i go, there shouldn't be any. I also don't like pizza, so I shouldn't have to smell it if I go to a restraunt to eat something else. Or you voted yes because second hand smoke kills people. If you work in a bar and are afraid of dying from second hand smoke, don't work there. If you live with someone that's going to kill you with their smoke, don't let them smoke in the house or leave them. Trust me. Smoke is not inescapable. They can dress this up as a health issue or a rights issue, but it's really a power thing. Is it really you're right as a voter to tell someone you're never going to meet how to run their business? Before you answer, private homes could be next on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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