Like to smoke when you drink?

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='sneaky' post='381906' date='Nov 8 2006, 05:59 PM'][img]http://www.csmngt.com/smokers.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.haydennet.com/hidden/images/lungs.jpg[/img]

[b]
Stop smoking the cancer sticks !!![/b][/quote]


[img]http://www.afhlivertransplantsupport.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/CirrhosisLiver.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.siamhealth.net/Disease/picture/cirrhosis.jpg[/img]

[b]Stop drinking !!! [/b]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381907' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:00 PM']Hey look. I was only suggesting that you quit smoking. Of course, I would never force anyone to, or suggest that someone should be forced to. But I do love the fact that I can go into any restaurant in this state of NY, and not have to worry about breathing in someone's smoke.[/quote]


That`s great. I`m sure there are places you could have went anyways though,
without it being FORCED on everyone...including business owners that smoke,
or would like to at least have the choice.

This is America still. And if someone wants to have a place that doesn`t
have non smoking, that should be their choice. It really has nothing to do with
me smoking or not. And If you took away your own selfish reasoning, you might
understand where I`m coming from...

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='381908' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:02 PM'][img]http://www.afhlivertransplantsupport.co.uk/mediac/400_0/media/CirrhosisLiver.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.siamhealth.net/Disease/picture/cirrhosis.jpg[/img]

[b]Stop drinking !!! [/b][/quote]

[b]I agree.[/b]

Luckily I dont drink or smoke.

But if the Surgeon General says masturbation can kill.......then I'm in trouble.
It's a bad habit I have not been able to break since high school.

[|Bunghole|]

I smoke and drink heavily. I never have a problem not smoking in places where it isn't allowed. My parents quit 20 years ago and can't stand it....and so I don't smoke in their house, I have to go outside, and I must admit it does curtail how much I smoke when I'm over there, especially since my Dad is fond of drinking too many martinis and whipping out his heart bypass scar and saying "Look what it did to me!".
I am an addict, I can freely admit it. I want to quit smoking, and yet....the only problem I have with this law isn't that non-smokers don't deserve clean air in public places, because they do.
It's a simple matter of government getting involved in something that they shouldn't. Smokers already pay higher health insurance premiums, are already subjected to insane taxes on a legal product, are already legislated against....I just don't think this was necessary, as many, many establishments were already smoke-free AS A CHOICE OF THE BUSINESS OWNER. Now they have no choice in the matter.
I know a couple people that have a cigar and martini bar atop their restaurants, and they are very profitable, until now. The funny thing is, those guys plopping down $10 for a martini and $8 for a cigar after a $200 meal aren't really smokers in the cigarette sense....and now they are fucked too.
And forget about that owning a bowling alley dream....

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='sneaky' post='381920' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:13 PM'][b]I agree.[/b]

Luckily I dont drink or smoke.

But if the Surgeon General says masturbation can kill.......then I'm in trouble.
It's a bad habit I have not been able to break since high school. [/quote]


Actually it can kill... or at least put an eye out or cause blindness ...

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='ONYX' post='381920' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:13 PM'][b]I agree.[/b]

Luckily I dont drink or smoke.

But if the Surgeon General says masturbation can kill.......then I'm in trouble.
It's a bad habit I have not been able to break since high school. [/quote]
The reason you're masturbating is because you don't drink...you need some alcohol to lower your standards a little....

[Guest steggyD]

But you don't get it Old. There is a freedom in this country, but sometimes freedom can oppress others, or infringe upon others. And sometimes that freedom is smoking. Any smoke that comes out of a cigarette will drift around and go into my lungs. That's affecting me, directly. That is like giving somebody the right to just go up and punch another person in the mouth. That's not really allowed either, now, is it?

[Guest ONYX]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='381924' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:15 PM']The reason you're masturbating is because you don't drink...you need some alcohol to lower your standards a little.... [/quote]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='381924' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:15 PM']The reason you're masturbating is because you don't drink...you need some alcohol to lower your standards a little.... [/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381925' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:17 PM']But you don't get it Old. There is a freedom in this country, but sometimes freedom can oppress others, or infringe upon others. And sometimes that freedom is smoking. Any smoke that comes out of a cigarette will drift around and go into my lungs. That's affecting me, directly. That is like giving somebody the right to just go up and punch another person in the mouth. That's not really allowed either, now, is it?[/quote]
These restaurants yo umention better not allow a fireplace to release toxic wood-burning smoke into the dining room, or cooking smoke....hell, while we're at it, we need to vote against the production of electricity by coal-fired power plants because you're breathing those emissions too...and do you drive a car? Your exhaust is impacting my health directly....

[Guest steggyD]

That's fine and dandy Bung, but I'm not even talking about the cancer causing part of cigarettes. I'm talking about the direct effect. It directly makes breathing difficult. I can handle the fireplace, the smoke is going up a chimney. If the food were to begin burning up and smoke up the place, then that would be a pain in the ass too. But smoke from a cigarette goes right into my lungs, even from across a room. And the smell is hard to bear. Like I said, it's like punching someone in the face, or more like the lungs and nose in this case.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381925' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:17 PM']But you don't get it Old. There is a freedom in this country, but sometimes freedom can oppress others, or infringe upon others. And sometimes that freedom is smoking. Any smoke that comes out of a cigarette will drift around and go into my lungs. That's affecting me, directly. That is like giving somebody the right to just go up and punch another person in the mouth. That's not really allowed either, now, is it?[/quote]


No Steggy I DO get it.

If I own a business, pay taxes, smoke, and pay taxes on those cigarettes,
Who the fuck are YOU or anyone else to tell me that
I can not smoke in my own building or allow others to smoke there ?

This "problem" that non smokers have could have easliy been remedied.
Business owners that want to allow smoking, could have put warning signs
on the door saying "Warning, this establisment allows smoking and you could
come in contact with second hand smoke. Enter at your own risk."
You don`t have to go where smoking is allowed. But now everywhere
I go smoking isn`t allowed. Why don`t you see the wrong in that way
of thinking ?

And I guess we should ban all forms of smoke now. Because it will get in your lungs.
I guess we need to make all cars have zero emissions, because not everyone
drives cars, but everyone has to breath and deal with their emissions...

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='381921' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:14 PM']I know a couple people that have a [b]cigar and martini bar atop [/b]their restaurants, and they are very profitable, until now. The funny thing is, those guys plopping down $10 for a martini and $8 for a cigar after a $200 meal aren't really smokers in the cigarette sense....and now they are fucked too.
And forget about that owning a bowling alley dream.... [/quote]

I can't speak to the Ohio law since I don't vote there anymore, but the DC smoking ban that takes effect soon exempts cigar bars, tobacco stores, and hotel rooms (but not hotel lounges) from the ban. There is also a procedure for bar owners to claim financial hardship exemption, but the man who was just elected mayor of Washington (Adrian Fenty) was the council member who pushed the smoking ban through, which means his health department probably won't be granting too many exemptions.

Are there no exemptions in the Ohio referendum?

[Guest steggyD]

Yes, Old, they are trying to make cars have fewer emissions. Is that really such a bad thing? Do we all need to go around killing everyone for the sake of our own selfish lifestyles?

These are not bad changes. A little healthy air can go a long way at curing many ailments.

Maybe I feel like I should be allowed to go out and shoot people, because dammitt, I bought this gun and these bullets. Who's place is it to tell me not to use them how I please, or where I please?

[|BengalsFREAK|]

Here is the law for everyone to dissect.


[quote]State Issue 5: Text of Proposed Law
Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Ohio.

Section 1.

3794.01 Definitions.

As used in this chapter:

(A) "Smoking" means inhaling, exhaling, burning, or carrying any lighted cigar, cigarette, pipe, or other lighted smoking device for burning tobacco or any other plant. "Smoking" does not include the burning of incense in a religious ceremony.

( "Public place" means an enclosed area to which the public is invited or in which the public is permitted and that is not a private residence.

© "Place of employment" means an enclosed area under the direct or indirect control of an employer that the employer's employees use for work or any other purpose, including but not limited to, offices, meeting rooms, sales, production and storage areas, restrooms, stairways, hallways, warehouses, garages, and vehicles. An enclosed area as described herein is a place of employment without regard to the time of day or the presence of employees.

(D) "Employee" means a person who is employed by an employer, or who contracts with an employer or third person to perform services for an employer, or who otherwise performs services for an employer for compensation or for no compensation.

(E) "Employer" means the state or any individual, business, association, political subdivision, or other public or private entity, including a nonprofit entity, that employs or contracts for or accepts the provision of services from one or more employees.

(F) "Enclosed Area" means an area with a roof or other overhead covering of any kind and walls or side coverings of any kind, regardless of the presence of openings for ingress and egress, on all sides or on all sides but one.

(G) "Proprietor" means an employer, owner, manager, operator, liquor permit holder, or person in charge or control of a public place or place of employment.

(H) "Retail tobacco store" means a retail establishment that derives more than eighty percent of its gross revenue from the sale of cigars, cigarettes, pipes, or other smoking devices for burning tobacco and related smoking accessories and in which the sale of other products is merely incidental. "Retail tobacco store" does not include a tobacco department or section of a larger commercial establishment or of any establishment with a liquor permit or of any restaurant.

(I) "Outdoor patio" means an area that is either: enclosed by a roof or other overhead covering and walls or side coverings on not more than two sides; or has no roof or other overhead covering regardless of the number of walls or other side coverings.

3794.02 Smoking Prohibitions.

(A) No proprietor of a public place or place of employment, except as permitted in section 3794.03 of this chapter, shall permit smoking in the public place or place of employment or in the areas directly or indirectly under the control of the proprietor immediately adjacent to locations of ingress or egress to the public place or place of employment.

( A proprietor of a public place or place of employment shall ensure that tobacco smoke does not enter any area in which smoking is prohibited under this chapter through entrances, windows, ventilation systems, or other means.

© No person or employer shall discharge, refuse to hire, or in any manner retaliate against an individual for exercising any right, including reporting a violation, or performing any obligation under this chapter.

(D) No person shall refuse to immediately discontinue smoking in a public place, place of employment, or establishment, facility or outdoor area declared nonsmoking under section 3794.05 of this chapter when requested to do so by the proprietor or any employee of an employer of the public place, place of employment or establishment, facility or outdoor area.

(E) Lack of intent to violate a provision of this chapter shall not be a defense to a violation.

3794.03 Areas where smoking is not regulated by this chapter.

The following shall be exempt from the provisions of this chapter:

(A) Private residences, except during the hours of operation as a child care or adult care facility for compensation, during the hours of operation as a business by a person other than a person residing in the private residence, or during the hours of operation as a business, when employees of the business, who are not residents of the private residence or are not related to the owner, are present.

( Rooms for sleeping in hotels, motels and other lodging facilities designated as smoking rooms; provided, however, that not more than twenty percent of sleeping rooms may be so designated.

© Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter.

(D) Any nursing home, as defined in section 3721.10(A) of the Revised Code, but only to the extent necessary to comply with section 3721.13(A)(18) of the Revised Code. If indoor smoking area is provided by a nursing home for residents of the nursing home, the designated indoor smoking area shall be separately enclosed and separately ventilated so that tobacco smoke does not enter, through entrances, windows, ventilation systems, or other means, any areas where smoking is otherwise prohibited under this chapter. Only residents of the nursing home may utilize the designated indoor smoking area for smoking. A nursing home may designate specific times when the indoor smoking area may be used for such purpose. No employee of a nursing shall be required to accompany a resident into a designated indoor smoking area or perform services in such area when being used for smoking.

(E) Retail tobacco stores as defined in section 3794.01(H) of this chapter in operation prior to the effective date of this section. The retail tobacco store shall annually file with the department of health by January thirty first an affidavit stating the percentage of its gross income during the prior calendar year that was derived from the sale of cigars, cigarettes, pipes, or other smoking devices for smoking tobacco and related smoking accessories. Any retail tobacco store that begins operation after the effective date of this section or any existing retail tobacco store that relocates to another location after the effective date of this section may only qualify for this exemption if located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the business and smoke from the business does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter.

(F) Outdoor patios as defined in Section 3794.01(I) of this chapter. All outdoor patios shall be physically separated from an enclosed area. If windows or doors form any part of the partition between an enclosed area and the outdoor patio, the openings shall be closed to prevent the migration of smoke into the enclosed area. If windows or doors do not prevent the migration of smoke into the enclosed area, the outdoor patio shall be considered an extension of the enclosed area and subject to the prohibitions of this chapter.

(G) Private clubs as defined in section 4301.01((13) of the Revised Code, provided all of the following apply: the club has no employees; the club is organized as a not for profit entity; only members of the club are present in the club's building; no persons under the age of eighteen are present in the club's building; the club is located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the club; smoke from the club does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter; and, if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4 liquor permit.

3794.04 Construction; other applicable laws.

Because medical studies have conclusively shown that exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco causes illness and disease, including lung cancer, heart disease, and respiratory illness, smoking in the workplace is a statewide concern and, therefore, it is in the best interests of public health that smoking of tobacco products be prohibited in public places and places of employment and that there be a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from the health hazards associated with exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco.

The provisions of this chapter shall be liberally construed so as to further its purposes of protecting public health and the health of employees and shall prevail over any less restrictive state or local laws or regulations. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to permit smoking where it is otherwise restricted by other laws or regulations.

3794.05 Declaration of establishment as nonsmoking.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the owner, manager, operator, or other person in charge or control of an establishment, facility, or outdoor area which does not otherwise qualify as a public place or place of employment may declare such establishment, facility, or outdoor area as a nonsmoking place. Smoking shall be prohibited in any place declared nonsmoking under this section where a sign conforming to the requirements of section 3794.06 is posted.

3794.06 Posting of signs; prohibition of ashtrays; responsibilities of proprietors.

In addition to the prohibitions contained in section 3794.02 of this chapter, the proprietor of a public place or place of employment shall comply with the following requirements:

(A) "No Smoking" signs or the international "No Smoking" symbol (consisting of a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with a red bar across it) shall be conspicuously posted in every public place and place of employment where smoking is prohibited by this chapter, including at each entrance to the public place or place of employment. Signs shall be of sufficient size to be clearly legible to a person of normal vision throughout the areas they are intended to mark. All signs shall contain a telephone number for reporting violations.

( All ashtrays and other receptacles used for disposing of smoking materials shall be removed from any area where smoking is prohibited by this chapter.

3794.07 Duties of the Department of Health.

This chapter shall be enforced by the department of health and its designees. The director of health shall within six months of the effective date of this section:

(A) Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to implement and enforce all provisions of this chapter;

( Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to prescribe a schedule of fines for violations of this chapter designed to foster compliance with the provisions of this chapter. The amount of a fine for a violation of 3794.02 (A) and ( shall not be less than one hundred dollars and the maximum for a violation shall be twenty five hundred dollars. The amount of a fine for a violation of 3794.02 (D) shall be up to a maximum of one hundred dollars per violation. Each day of a violation shall constitute a separate violation. The schedule of fines that apply to a proprietor shall be progressive based on the number of prior violations by the proprietor. Violations which occurred more than two years prior to a subsequent violation shall not be considered if there has been no finding of a violation in the intervening time period. The fine schedule shall set forth specific factors that may be considered to decrease or waive the amount of a fine that otherwise would apply. Fines shall be doubled for intentional violations;

© Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to prescribe a procedure for providing a proprietor or individual written notice of a report of a violation and the opportunity to present in writing any statement or evidence to contest the report, and prescribing procedures for making findings whether a proprietor or individual violated a provision of this chapter and for imposing fines for violations;

(D) Establish a system for receiving reports of violations of the provisions of this chapter from any member of the public, including, but not limited to, by mail and one or more e-mail addresses and toll free telephone numbers exclusively for such purpose. A person shall not be required to disclose his or her identity in order to report a violation;

(E) Inform proprietors of public places and places of employment of the requirements of this chapter and how to comply with its provisions, including, but not limited to, by providing printed and other materials and a toll free telephone number and e-mail address exclusively for such purposes; and

(F) Design and implement a program to educate the public regarding the provisions of this chapter, including, but not limited to, through the establishment of an internet website and how a violation may be reported.

3794.08 Smoke Free Indoor Air Fund.

There is hereby created in the state treasury the smoke free indoor air fund. All fines collected pursuant to this chapter and any grant, contribution, or other moneys received by the department of health for the purposes of this chapter shall be credited to the smoke free indoor air fund and used solely for the purposes of this chapter.

3794.09 Enforcement; Penalties.

(A) Upon the receipt of a first report that a proprietor of a public place or place of employment or an individual has violated any provision of this chapter, the department of health or its designee shall investigate the report and, if it concludes that there was a violation, issue a warning letter to the proprietor or individual.

( Upon a report of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this chapter by a proprietor of a public place or place of employment or an individual, the department of health or its designee shall investigate the report. If the director of health or director's designee concludes, based on all of the information before him or her, that there was a violation, he or she shall impose a civil fine upon the proprietor or individual in accordance with the schedule of fines required to be promulgated under section 3794.07 of this chapter.

© Any proprietor or individual against whom a finding of a violation is made under this chapter may appeal the finding to the Franklin County Court of Common Pleas. Such appeal shall be governed by the provisions of section 119.12 of the Revised Code.

(D) The director of health may institute an action in the court of common pleas seeking an order in equity against a proprietor or individual that has repeatedly violated the provisions of this chapter or fails to comply with its provisions.

Section 2. Severability.

If any provision of this chapter or the application thereof to any person or circumstances shall be held invalid by a court, that invalidity shall not affect the other provisions of this chapter that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to this end the provisions of this chapter are declared to be severable.[/quote]

[|BengalsFREAK|]

I didn't add the smileys btw.....I guess the code for those smileys is triggered a few times in that quote. lol

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381946' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:38 PM']Yes, Old, they are trying to make cars have fewer emissions. Is that really such a bad thing? Do we all need to go around killing everyone for the sake of our own selfish lifestyles?[/quote]

How am I killing you if you don`t go to the places that allow smoking ?
You act like you have to be able to go EVERYWHERE and be away from smoking.
I`m telling you that I should be able to go SOMEWHERE or be allowed
to make a choice if I want to allow people to smoke. But yet, I`m selfish ?


[quote]Maybe I feel like I should be allowed to go out and shoot people, because dammitt, I bought this gun and these bullets. Who's place is it to tell me not to use them how I please, or where I please?[/quote]

Wow, great analogy. I guess if you come into my house or sit in my car, it`s like I got
a liscense to "shoot you" then ?

[Guest steggyD]

[quote]Because medical studies have conclusively shown that exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco causes illness and disease, including lung cancer, heart disease, and respiratory illness, smoking in the workplace is a statewide concern and, therefore, it is in the best interests of public health that smoking of tobacco products be prohibited in public places and places of employment and that there be a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from the health hazards associated with exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco.[/quote]

This right here is good enough for me.

See, guys, here's the difference.

You try to throw unrelated things out there such as driving cars. Well, driving a car is a little bit more important than smoking a cigarette, wouldn't you think? Does a cigarette get you to work? Does a cigarette get you to the grocery store? You need the car. They are making cars burn cleaner exhausts now, which I think is a good thing.

Public transportation. I'm for that too, especially living in NY. I hate the fact that millions of people drive into the city instead of taking one of many different forms of public transportation. Populations are growing. One day, even Cicinnati is going to need better forms of transportation. It will become nearly impossible to get in and out Paul Brown stadium, if your numbers reach those of NY and everyone continues to keep driving.

You see, we understand the necessities of life, and cigarette smoke is not one of those. If you really must smoke, then step outside and smoke it. It's not like you're allowed to drive your exhaust burning car into the restaurant now, are you?

[Guest steggyD]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='381952' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:49 PM']Wow, great analogy. I guess if you come into my house or sit in my car, it`s like I got
a liscense to "shoot you" then ?[/quote]
Why not? You compare driving a car to smoking.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381953' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:50 PM']This right here is good enough for me.

See, guys, here's the difference.

You try to throw unrelated things out there such as driving cars. Well, driving a car is a little bit more important than smoking a cigarette, wouldn't you think? Does a cigarette get you to work? Does a cigarette get you to the grocery store? You need the car. They are making cars burn cleaner exhausts now, which I think is a good thing.

Public transportation. I'm for that too, especially living in NY. I hate the fact that millions of people drive into the city instead of taking one of many different forms of public transportation. Populations are growing. One day, even Cicinnati is going to need better forms of transportation. It will become nearly impossible to get in and out Paul Brown stadium, if your numbers reach those of NY and everyone continues to keep driving.

You see, we understand the necessities of life, and cigarette smoke is not one of those. If you really must smoke, then step outside and smoke it. It's not like you're allowed to drive your exhaust burning car into the restaurant now, are you?[/quote]

Cars aren`t necessities of life. Cars have been around for a little over a hundred years.
I`ve been without a car before. I never died.
There are all kinds of Amish people up here in Wisconsin, they don`t drive cars.
But they have to deal with the effects of their emissions. Why should they be
inconvienced for my own selfishness ?

My main point is, it`s great that you don`t smoke. And I can respect that.
Whenever I go somewhere that doesn`t allow smoking, or am around someone
that doesn`t smoke, I respect them enough to not smoke, unless they say it`s OK.
But I should have the choice of allowing people to smoke or not. I should be able
to have a choice on whether or not I want to go to a bar or resturant that allows
smoking. I should not have that decision taken away from me because YOU don`t
want me to have it.

[Guest steggyD]

Well, then I think if places want to have smoking areas, they should have to build in walled-in areas that do not allow the smoke out. Box all you lung-killers up together. Kinda like they used to have in airports. I know it's kinda sucky that you have to step outside now, but they do it in NY all the time now. It actually makes for a nice little socializing get-together now from what I can see. Walk down a Manhattan street at night and watch all the smokers outside the bars having the time of their lives, even in winter.

It's not going to hurt you smokers, it'll build character.

[Guest CincyInDC]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381960' date='Nov 8 2006, 08:03 PM']Well, then I think if places want to have smoking areas, they should have to build in walled-in areas that do not allow the smoke out. Box all you lung-killers up together. Kinda like they [b]used to[/b] have in airports. I know it's kinda sucky that you have to step outside now, but they do it in NY all the time now. It actually makes for a nice little socializing get-together now from what I can see. Walk down a Manhattan street at night and watch all the smokers outside the bars having the time of their lives, even in winter.

It's not going to hurt you smokers, it'll build character.[/quote]

You haven't been to Louisville or Atlanta lately.

[Guest steggyD]

No, I haven't even been in airports lately. I do remember the one in Atlanta when I used to fly. And I think there was one in Raleigh-Durham too.

[quote name='oldschooler' post='381959' date='Nov 8 2006, 08:00 PM']But I should have the choice of allowing people to smoke or not. I should be able
to have a choice on whether or not I want to go to a bar or resturant that allows
smoking. I should not have that decision taken away from me because YOU don`t
want me to have it.[/quote]
But you can still smoke. Just step outside.

Like I said, in restaurants, I think it's a great idea. Someone doesn't really need to smoke during their meal, you can last that long. Don't even try to tell me that you have to have a cigarette in the time it takes to consume a meal. Once your dinner is done and you step out, then smoke your cigarette. It's not that big a deal. I used to smoke. It's ok, just wait.

The bars banning smoking; I don't necessarily agree with. I just don't view a bar as a clean environment anyway. And it usually requires sitting around for hours at a time. Let someone smoke up, or like I stated in the other post, build them a smoking cubicle, so they at least don't have to freeze in the winter months.

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='steggyD' post='381960' date='Nov 8 2006, 07:03 PM']Well, then I think if places want to have smoking areas, they should have to build in walled-in areas that do not allow the smoke out. Box all you lung-killers up together. Kinda like they used to have in airports. I know it's kinda sucky that you have to step outside now, but they do it in NY all the time now. It actually makes for a nice little socializing get-together now from what I can see. Walk down a Manhattan street at night and watch all the smokers outside the bars having the time of their lives, even in winter.

It's not going to hurt you smokers, it'll build character.[/quote]

I think if places want to allow smoking, and you don`t like it, you should steer clear of the place.

I think they shouldn`t have to conform to you, you should conform to them, or stay out.
It`s that simple really...

[Guest steggyD]

But what about the employees, Old. Can you really tell them they have to steer clear? The fact is, it's even going to be better for the smokers. They now only have to breathe their own smoke, and not everyone else's on top of it.