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Latest Rumor - Marvin to Dallas


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[quote name='BengalsOwn' post='432482' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:37 PM']I don't think Shula can take us to the super bowl, but with all of the talent on this team he sure as hell could have taken us to 8-8 last season.[/quote]

5 wins...MAX.
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Guest IndianaBengal

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432490' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:42 PM']what are you talking about?

I am giving Marv credit.

[color="#FF0000"]Are you 13? unable to read and debate?[/color]
I don't know how many more times I have to say that Marvin is doing a great job but I would take players over him in a heartbeat.

[color="#FF0000"]People need to quit crowning Pollack as some great player too... he did NOTHING so far in his career as a Bengal.[/color] I too think he would be great some day but he's still done NOTHING so far.[/quote]


I'm 33. And how do you call yourself a [i]Whodeyian Diplomat [/i]if your not willing to give time for a 1st round pick to develope.
:1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin:

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[quote name='ONYX' post='432494' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:49 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I believe that the recent rise to mediocrity have allowed you and Own to forget
how bad this franchise was before Marvin arrived.

You want to say Carson is making Marvin, but you fail to recognize how it was Marvin
that decided to sit Carson his rookie year and allow him to watch and learn instead of
throwing him to the wolves.

You fail to recognize how it was Marvin that had enough foresight to bench the
reigning comeback player of the year (Kitna) in 2004 and start Palmer instead,
even when the so called experts and pundits were calling him crazy for doing it.

You fail to recognize how Marvin brought in Ken Zampeese who many believe has
had a greater impact on Carson's developent than Bratkowski.

It's easy to say that Carson makes Marvin now isn't it?

But with the wrong man in charge, Carson could have ended up like a Harrington or
Carr, or Klingler, or Smith, etc, etc.[/b][/color][/quote]

[size=5]TESTIFY!!!!!!!!![/size]


[quote name='TheBZ' post='432496' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:51 PM']5 wins...MAX.[/quote]


4 but the lockerroom has really good catering after the game. :thumbsup:

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[quote name='ONYX' post='432494' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:49 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I believe that the recent rise to mediocrity have allowed you and Own to forget
how bad this franchise was before Marvin arrived.

You want to say Carson is making Marvin, but you fail to recognize how it was Marvin
that decided to sit Carson his rookie year and allow him to watch and learn instead of
throwing him to the wolves.

You fail to recognize how it was Marvin that had enough foresight to bench the
reigning comeback player of the year (Kitna) in 2004 and start Palmer instead,
even when the so called experts and pundits were calling him crazy for doing it.

You fail to recognize how Marvin brought in Ken Zampeese who many believe has
had a greater impact on Carson's developent than Bratkowski.

It's easy to say that Carson makes Marvin now isn't it?

But with the wrong man in charge, Carson could have ended up like a Harrington or
Carr, or Klingler, or Smith, etc, etc.[/b][/color]

Ok... I must not be making my point in words obviously. To this point, Marvin has done so much for this franchise that it's amazing the job that he has done. He has turned Carson into a probowl qb, the bengals into a respectable franchise and has drafted much talent. However, our offense may be maxed out. We have a probowl QB, two probowl WRs, 3 probowl lineman (one lost to FA), a probowl FB, probowl RB, a great backup RB when healthy, and a deep WR core and suitable TEs

However, what the team is missing is many playmakers on D. We have what, maybe 2 playmakers? Madieu and Joseph? We are unsure about Odell and Pollacks future is uncertain. Tory and Deltha are as good as gone, Simmons is slowing down, Smith is gone, I guess Geathers could be consider a playmaker but i still say his future is uncertain without JSMITH, and then just a bunch of good role players.

Think of what that D could be like with 2 first round picks this draft and 2 second round picks. Then think about next year when we could have 2 more first round picks and 2 second round picks. You could draft a great young D to match this great young O.

Now back to Carson... when all is said and done, Marvin helped create Carson, but Carson will be the one who gets the glory (i.e. See God creating Jesus.)[/quote]


[quote name='Bengals_12th_Man' post='432495' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:50 PM']And the award for most useless thread EVER 2007 goes to....[/quote]

It's the offseason... humor us.

[quote name='TheBZ' post='432496' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:51 PM']5 wins...MAX.[/quote]

Doubtful. The talent on offense alone should produce at least 6 wins per year.


[quote name='IndianaBengal' post='432497' date='Jan 24 2007, 06:52 PM']I'm 33. And how do you call yourself a [i]Whodeyian Diplomat [/i]if your not willing to give time for a 1st round pick to develope.
:1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin: :1violin:[/quote]

Ok you must be drunk then. When did I ever say I didn't give time for Pollack to develop? You know he broke his neck right? And his future is still uncertain? Damn ...

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Guest IndianaBengal
[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432503' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:02 PM']Ok you must be drunk then. When did I ever say I didn't give time for Pollack to develop? [size=6]You know he broke his neck right? [/size] And his future is still uncertain? Damn ...[/quote]

no, I don't recall that happening. please tell me when that happened so People could start disregarding Marv as a bi-product of a great qb..
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[quote]Ok... I must not be making my point in words obviously. To this point, Marvin has done so much for this franchise that it's amazing the job that he has done. He has turned Carson into a probowl qb, the bengals into a respectable franchise and has drafted much talent. However, our offense may be maxed out. We have a probowl QB, two probowl WRs, 3 probowl lineman (one lost to FA), a probowl FB, probowl RB, a great backup RB when healthy, and a deep WR core and suitable TEs

However, what the team is missing is many playmakers on D. We have what, maybe 2 playmakers? Madieu and Joseph? We are unsure about Odell and Pollacks future is uncertain. Tory and Deltha are as good as gone, Simmons is slowing down, Smith is gone, I guess Geathers could be consider a playmaker but i still say his future is uncertain without JSMITH, and then just a bunch of good role players.

Think of what that D could be like with 2 first round picks this draft and 2 second round picks. Then think about next year when we could have 2 more first round picks and 2 second round picks. You could draft a great young D to match this great young O.

Now back to Carson... when all is said and done, Marvin helped create Carson, but Carson will be the one who gets the glory (i.e. See God creating Jesus.)[/quote]

And this is where we differ, I only would sniff at it if I was certin that I could bring another coach in with a damn fine resume, because the whole draft isnt certin. Look at it this way, you trade away Marvin for your two 1st rounders and one gets injured and his carreer is now in question and the other misses two drug tests and his carreer is now in question as well. What do you have then? Also unless we did replace Marvin with a damn fine replacement, who makes these players what they are? There isnt a player in the NFL that didnt have someone coach him into what he is. Espesally if Zamp goes to Miami?

I again go back the the Oakland example saying they havent really done anything with their picks, and are again drafting in the top 10. So unless you could bring in a coach that would be able to coach those D players up to make them that good, I dont think its a good idea.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='432508' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:14 PM']And this is where we differ, I only would sniff at it if I was certin that I could bring another coach in with a damn fine resume, because the whole draft isnt certin. Look at it this way, you trade away Marvin for your two 1st rounders and one gets injured and his carreer is now in question and the other misses two drug tests and his carreer is now in question as well. What do you have then? Also unless we did replace Marvin with a damn fine replacement, who makes these players what they are? There isnt a player in the NFL that didnt have someone coach him into what he is. Espesally if Zamp goes to Miami?

I again go back the the Oakland example saying they havent really done anything with their picks, and are again drafting in the top 10. So unless you could bring in a coach that would be able to coach those D players up to make them that good, I dont think its a good idea.[/quote]

You using Oakland as an example for this is like me using New England for the scheduling. Oakland had NOTHING on thier team remaining. They used thier picks to try and start over (by the way, one of those picks was that bad ass corner they have, the dude with the hard name to pronouce Aswogadjiagja)

Obviously I would be opposed to bringing in a new coach that sucked. However, it goes back to the question what is better... talented players or talented coaches?

Listen, the Bengals I expect to still win the superbowl within the next 3 years with Marvin at the helm. The whole point of this thread is what is Marvin worth to you. Obviously many on here picture Marvin as thier own father and wouldn't trade him for the world. I on the other hand would take him for 4 future players.
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Guest IndianaBengal
[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432510' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:15 PM']you must be having a bad day... I'll just leave this one alone.[/quote]
honestly, as I read & post on this thread, I feel like Gus Ferrote. Banging my head against a damn wall.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='432512' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:18 PM']For those of you who need a reminder, go over to the trash talk section and ask any of the ravens fans if they would prefer Billick or Marvin. Im pretty sure I know what their answer will be.[/quote]

While you are at it, ask what would they prefer...

Carson or Boller


I'm pretty sure they would be more than content with Billick and Carson ....

Remember Billick is an offensive genious... think of what he could do with Carson. Marvin is the defense guy. How is Balts defense doing without Marv?
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432513' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:21 PM']You using Oakland as an example for this is like me using New England for the scheduling. Oakland had NOTHING on thier team remaining. They used thier picks to try and start over (by the way, one of those picks was that bad ass corner they have, the dude with the hard name to pronouce Aswogadjiagja)

Obviously I would be opposed to bringing in a new coach that sucked. However, it goes back to the question what is better... talented players or talented coaches?

Listen, the Bengals I expect to still win the superbowl within the next 3 years with Marvin at the helm. The whole point of this thread is what is Marvin worth to you. Obviously many on here picture Marvin as thier own father and wouldn't trade him for the world. I on the other hand would take him for 4 future players.[/quote]


No I get it, and the Oak/NE your right with as far as starting over, and they have put together a decent D, however they have also had a number of QBs that they have passed on with these picks (a position they desperatly need).

My argument is talented coaches make talented players. Do you really think Carson would be as good as he is without the combo of Marvin/Zamp/Brat/Kinta guiding him? I dont.

And yeah I agree that its just for discussion and that neither of us expect it to happen. So the discussion is turning to our diffrence of opinion on is it good players or good coaching and who makes the good players, is it good coaching or were they good already, and just needed experience.

To me Wilkinson is the perfect example of a damn good college player whom we drafted and couldnt coach him into anything, only under Marvin (when Marvin was in DC) did he even sniff a good year.


Thats why I think coaching is THAT important.
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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432515' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:22 PM']While you are at it, ask what would they prefer...

Carson or Boller
I'm pretty sure they would be more than content with Billick and Carson ....

Remember Billick is an offensive genious... think of what he could do with Carson. Marvin is the defense guy. How is Balts defense doing without Marv?[/quote]


Ok, but who made Carson into what he is?

Billick also said when he drafted Boller that he wished he had the option of sitting him behind a player like Kitna, but he didnt.

Balt's D is damn good, and last year when they lost their two best players in Lewis and Reed how did they do? Who brought in Lewis and Reed and coached them up?

;)

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[quote name='Bengals_12th_Man' post='432495' date='Jan 24 2007, 11:50 PM']And the award for most useless thread EVER 2007 goes to....[/quote]
and yet someone has spent 25+ posts trying to convince us that we should trade our coach for draft pics because of some ignorant ass rumor on a bullshit website...

it must be the offseason. :badger:

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[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='432518' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:33 PM']and yet someone has spent 25+ posts trying to convince us that we should trade our coach for draft pics because of some ignorant ass rumor on a bullshit website...

[color="#FF0000"]it must be the offseason[/color]. :badger:[/quote]


:lol: :badger:

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Guest IndianaBengal

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432515' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:22 PM']While you are at it, ask what would they prefer...

Carson or Boller
I'm pretty sure they would be more than content with Billick and Carson ....

Remember Billick is an offensive genious... think of what he could do with Carson. Marvin is the defense guy. How is Balts defense doing without Marv?[/quote]


Ozzie Newsome has a great nose for defensive talent. But that can't make the Bengals better. If there was one thing that we could aggree on here, it is that Ozzie is a fine drafter on defense. Now we don't have to dissaggree all night. But if you still wnat to trade Marv for Dallas pix,,,, :onoudidnt:

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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='432517' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:32 PM']Ok, but who made Carson into what he is?

Billick also said when he drafted Boller that he wished he had the option of sitting him behind a player like Kitna, but he didnt.

Balt's D is damn good, and last year when they lost their two best players in Lewis and Reed how did they do? Who brought in Lewis and Reed and coached them up?

;)[/quote]

Now if you want to say Marvin/Zamp/Brat made kitna the comeback player of the year, I'll give you that. But lets not forget Carson did win the Heisman (and please don't give me a list of all the heisman trophies who sucked in the pros... Carson was can't miss, much like Peyton). Carson with or without those guys would still be a great QB... but he might not be as great as he is today. So Carson would still be Carson I believe. Now did Bellicheck make Brady? Most likely...


But how again did it come to this? Regardless, Carson is already "Made" now and I have commended through this whole topic that Carson is great because of the coaches but what left is there to make him "great-er"? With a Defense this team would win a superbowl....

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='432518' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:33 PM']and yet someone has spent 25+ posts trying to convince us that we should trade our coach for draft pics because of some ignorant ass rumor on a bullshit website...

it must be the offseason. :badger:[/quote]

Its not the rumor... the thread was turned into something different and obviously you haven't voiced your opinion. What would you give up for marvin?

[quote name='IndianaBengal' post='432520' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:40 PM']Ozzie Newsome has a great nose for defensive talent. But that can't make the Bengals better. If there was one thing that we could aggree on here, it is that Ozzie is a fine drafter on defense. Now we don't have to dissaggree all night. But if you still wnat to trade Marv for Dallas pix,,,, :onoudidnt:[/quote]

Huh? How did Ozzie get brought up? Regardless, yes he's a great GM.

and guys, i think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion and I don't think people are really listening to what I'm saying. I love Marv and hope he stays here, but if the trade happened it wouldn't upset me because I think in the next 5 years, the trade would make us a better team.

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[quote]Now if you want to say Marvin/Zamp/Brat made kitna the comeback player of the year, I'll give you that. But lets not forget Carson did win the Heisman (and please don't give me a list of all the heisman trophies who sucked in the pros... Carson was can't miss, much like Peyton). Carson with or without those guys would still be a great QB... but he might not be as great as he is today. So Carson would still be Carson I believe. Now did Bellicheck make Brady? Most likely...


But how again did it come to this? Regardless, Carson is already "Made" now and I have commended through this whole topic that Carson is great because of the coaches but what left is there to make him "great-er"? With a Defense this team would win a superbowl....[/quote]


Ryan Leaf was a 'cant miss' player too. ;)

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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432521' date='Jan 25 2007, 12:50 AM']Its not the rumor... the thread was turned into something different and obviously you haven't voiced your opinion. What would you give up for marvin?[/quote]
what would i demand in a trade for marvin? how about the ghosts of Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Tom Landry, and Bear Bryant?
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='432522' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:52 PM']Ryan Leaf was a 'cant miss' player too. ;)[/quote]

Too bad he didn't have two probowl WRs to throw to, a 3 (4?) time probowl RT, a LT and LG who are probowl alternates, an outstanding center, a probowl FB and a probowl RB to play around either..... ;)

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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432524' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:56 PM']Too bad he didn't have two probowl WRs to throw to, a 3 (4?) time probowl RT, a LT and LG who are probowl alternates, an outstanding center, a probowl FB and a probowl RB to play around either..... ;)[/quote]


I have a secret.


















Brat had a hand in picking several of those players you mention. ;)

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[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='432525' date='Jan 25 2007, 12:57 AM']hmm that might be tough to pull off though....

:D[/quote]
seriously, i would not trade Marvin Lewis for any coach in the league. period.

does he still have some growing to do as an NFL head coach? sure. but that's my guy. has been even prior to him signing in Cincy. i was in fear of the skins signing him to be HC instead of just DC, but luckily dan snyder doesn't know a fucking thing about football...

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