Where's CinciNC?

[Purple Predator]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='438118' date='Feb 6 2007, 09:10 PM']alright pred, here are the mcnair and roethlisberger career numbers:
games
McNair 155
Roethlisberger 41
completion percentage
M 59.9
R 62.4
yards per attempt
M 6.96
R 8.25
tds/ints
M 172/115
R 52/43
rating
M 83.2
R 87.9

The numbers are pretty similar if you ask me. We can compare stats all day long though, games aren't won on paper[/quote]
But this year, when Ben didn't have a tough running back. When his back was shut down, he couldn't respond. That's why you guys lost so much this year. He can't respond when the team really needs him. Roethlisberger lost two weapons, and he had a bad year. Everyone on the offense suffered because of the loss of Randle El. Roethlisberger has had better receivers and guys on offense around him. The two best receivers McNair has ever had were Wycheck and Mason. Roethlisberger has had Plexico Burress, Antwaan Randle El and wines hard. McNair gets it done in the clutch, too. He's good at sparking and keeping comebacks going. I'd take McNair over Roethlisberger any day.

[quote name='Bunghole' post='438152' date='Feb 6 2007, 10:39 PM']Fuck McNair, his best years are behind him (and have been since his ego-crushing defeat in the Super Bowl as a Titan), not to mention the reality of his beat-up body and [b]the lack of a receiving game for the Rats beyond Heap (c'mon, Mason is too short to be [i]really[/i] good...).[/b]
And for that matter, fuck Ben Vaginaberger as well. Yes he has a ring. Whoopee. Youngest QB [i]ever[/i] to do so!
The stealers are in for a decline, the Browns are going to improve, and the Ravens are always going to be that pesky team with a genius coach, a good, if aging defense and a subpar offense until they improve at QB, RB and WR.
The Bengals are stacked up well against our foes in the AFC North. I think they rise up and dominate next year.[/quote]
Demetrius Williams is up-and-coming. Mark Clayton is yet to have his best year, and did great at the end of the year and almost got 1000 yards. The receiving game is about to get help with a running game. Whether that comes from the draft or through free agency, I don't know. But Jamal is DONE...at least being a starter on this team. I don't know who is gonna be the QB of the future, but for the time-being, I'll take McNair. Sure his best years are behind him, but he's not washed up.

[Hooky]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='438152' date='Feb 6 2007, 10:39 PM']Fuck McNair, his best years are behind him (and have been since his ego-crushing defeat in the Super Bowl as a Titan), not to mention the reality of his beat-up body and the lack of a receiving game for the Rats beyond Heap (c'mon, Mason is too short to be [i]really[/i] good...).
And for that matter, fuck Ben Vaginaberger as well. Yes he has a ring. Whoopee. Youngest QB [i]ever[/i] to do so!
The stealers are in for a decline, the Browns are going to improve, and the Ravens are always going to be that pesky team with a genius coach, a good, if aging defense and a subpar offense until they improve at QB, RB and WR.
The Bengals are stacked up well against our foes in the AFC North. I think they rise up and dominate next year.[/quote]

Why are you trolling in the Stealers-Ravens thread?

And nice avitar.

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Purple Predator' post='438530' date='Feb 7 2007, 08:33 PM']But this year, when Ben didn't have a tough running back. When his back was shut down, he couldn't respond. That's why you guys lost so much this year. He can't respond when the team really needs him. Roethlisberger lost two weapons, and he had a bad year. Everyone on the offense suffered because of the loss of Randle El. Roethlisberger has had better receivers and guys on offense around him. The two best receivers McNair has ever had were Wycheck and Mason. Roethlisberger has had Plexico Burress, Antwaan Randle El and wines hard. McNair gets it done in the clutch, too. He's good at sparking and keeping comebacks going. I'd take McNair over Roethlisberger any day.[/quote]
No denying it predator, ben had a shitty year this year. He will be back on track next year, i guarantee it. If he's not, then I swear to you I'll come on this board and say he sucks. Roethlisberger has also lead comebacks and game-winning drives: Jaguars in his rookie year and the Browns this year come to mind off-hand (yeah i know, the Clowns, but still ). To say you would rather have McNair in his prime than Ben I could understand, but to say you would rather have McNair vs Ben at this point in their careers i think is foolish.

By the way, what's your beef with Jamal? Although he's past his prime, he's still a decent back to have on your roster. Maybe cap space?

[JC]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='439047' date='Feb 8 2007, 06:31 PM']No denying it predator, ben had a shitty year this year. He will be back on track next year, i guarantee it. If he's not, then I swear to you I'll come on this board and say he sucks. Roethlisberger has also lead comebacks and game-winning drives: Jaguars in his rookie year and the Browns this year come to mind off-hand (yeah i know, the Clowns, but still ). To say you would rather have McNair in his prime than Ben I could understand, but to say you would rather have McNair vs Ben at this point in their careers i think is foolish.

By the way, what's your beef with Jamal? Although he's past his prime, he's still a decent back to have on your roster. Maybe cap space?[/quote]


Empty can of pop>Roethelisberger.

Oh yeah and i would take Kyle Boller over that trashy piece of shit. He probably could beat the Oakland Raiders.


I'm so glad we have Carson. Not to mention Chad TJ and Chris.

[Purple Predator]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='439047' date='Feb 8 2007, 06:31 PM']No denying it predator, ben had a shitty year this year. He will be back on track next year, i guarantee it. If he's not, then I swear to you I'll come on this board and say he sucks. Roethlisberger has also lead comebacks and game-winning drives: Jaguars in his rookie year and the Browns this year come to mind off-hand (yeah i know, the Clowns, but still ). [b]To say you would rather have McNair in his prime than Ben I could understand, but to say you would rather have McNair vs Ben at this point in their careers i think is foolish.

By the way, what's your beef with Jamal? Although he's past his prime, he's still a decent back to have on your roster. Maybe cap space?[/b][/quote]
I wouldn't call it foolish, but I think it's a tough call. I have seen what Ben does without a running game, though. McNair didn't have a running game all year and he still had a decent year.

My beef with Jamal is mostly the cap space he takes up. He's supposed to have something closer to 10 mil than 5 mil next year. I don't think he's worth that and we let him go. He thinks he's better than he is. At least he sounded like he did early in the season and he sounds like that now, too. He said something like if this team wants to win a Super Bowl, they should keep me. He either doesn't wanna go to free agency or he thinks he's better than he is. Not sure right now, but I think he's done regardless. He left 200+ yards on the field this year.
[quote name='JC' post='439052' date='Feb 8 2007, 06:37 PM']Oh yeah and i would take Kyle Boller over that trashy piece of shit. He probably could beat the Oakland Raiders.[/quote]
With the stealers of this year he couldn't. But with the Ravens this year, he could. Who knows. We lost all 8 road games with him last year.

[Brew Crew Grrl]

I only have one thing to say regarding Roethlisberger vs. Palmer and the whole AFCN QB argument....
[b]Career QB ratings[/b]
Palmer-91.5
Roethlisberger-87.9
McNair-83.2
Frye-72.3

On a side note, one thing I did find amusing. Ben's QB rating of 75.4 in 2006 was nearly as bad as Frye's 72.8 his rookie year [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Brew Crew Grrl' post='439953' date='Feb 11 2007, 02:51 PM']I only have one thing to say regarding Roethlisberger vs. Palmer and the whole AFCN QB argument....
[b]Career QB ratings[/b]
Palmer-91.5
Roethlisberger-87.9
McNair-83.2
Frye-72.3

[b]On a side note, one thing I did find amusing. Ben's QB rating of 75.4 in 2006 was nearly as bad as Frye's 72.8 his rookie year [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img][/b][/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

[Brew Crew Grrl]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='439957' date='Feb 11 2007, 02:59 PM'][img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img][/quote]
Mike Tomlin said he wants to spread out the defenses and use a 4 receiver set. Santonio Holmes, wines hard, Heath Miller...... dang, I don't even think pissburgh HAS 4 receivers We see what happens when Ben throw more INT>TD. Wonder what his rating goal is this year... 69 perhaps??

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Brew Crew Grrl' post='439975' date='Feb 11 2007, 03:55 PM']Mike Tomlin said he wants to spread out the defenses and use a 4 receiver set. Santonio Holmes, wines hard, Heath Miller...... dang, I don't even think pissburgh HAS 4 receivers We see what happens when Ben throw more INT>TD. Wonder what his rating goal is this year... 69 perhaps??[/quote]


I cant wait. I mean look how well they ran the no-huddle.

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]

[Brew Crew Grrl]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440010' date='Feb 11 2007, 05:29 PM']I cant wait. I mean look how well they ran the no-huddle.

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]:rofl:[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img][/quote]
What are you talking about JamieB?!?! They executed the no huddle PERFECTLY...





















FOR THE OTHER TEAM! [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]
Man, you set that one up for the kill!

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Brew Crew Grrl' post='440013' date='Feb 11 2007, 05:33 PM']What are you talking about JamieB?!?! They executed the no huddle PERFECTLY...
FOR THE OTHER TEAM! [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//24.gif[/img]
Man, you set that one up for the kill![/quote]

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Brew Crew Grrl' post='439953' date='Feb 11 2007, 02:51 PM']On a side note, one thing I did find amusing. Ben's QB rating of 75.4 in 2006 was nearly as bad as Frye's 72.8 his rookie year [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img][/quote]
Or just slightly worse than Carson's 77.3 as a rookie, however you look at it. Look, i'm not even gonna try to argue with you about who is the best qb in the north, it's clearly Carson. But i'm happy with Ben as our quarterback, he's a proven winner.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='440041' date='Feb 11 2007, 07:11 PM']Or just slightly worse than Carson's 77.3 as a rookie, however you look at it. Look, i'm not even gonna try to argue with you about who is the best qb in the north, it's clearly Carson. But i'm happy with Ben as our quarterback,[b] he's a proven winner.[/b][/quote]


so long as he isnt asked to pass too much and your running game and D is playing like the steelers are known for, then yes Ben has shown to be able to win games, when not....well.....

[Purple Predator]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440043' date='Feb 11 2007, 07:16 PM']so long as he isnt asked to pass too much and your running game and D is playing like the stealers are known for, then yes Ben has shown to be able to win games, when not....well.....[/quote]
...Exactly. I haven't seen him make plays without a running game. When he does that, I'll view him as a good quarterback.

And I'm pretty sure BCG's point was that Ben did just slightly better than a rookie... or a Browns' QB. :tongue:

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Purple Predator' post='440149' date='Feb 12 2007, 12:59 AM'] ...Exactly. I haven't seen him make plays without a running game. When he does that, I'll view him as a good quarterback.

And I'm pretty sure BCG's point was that Ben did just slightly better than a rookie... or a Browns' QB. :tongue:[/quote]


It just hit me. Toothlessberger is good at rolling out of the pocket and making something happen while running, but isnt a good pocket QB and if his running game is sucking then so is he. You know who else that describes to a tee? Jake Plummer


So yes Toothlessberger = Jake Plummer

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440315' date='Feb 12 2007, 01:58 PM']It just hit me. Toothlessberger is good at rolling out of the pocket and making something happen while running, but isnt a good pocket QB and if his running game is sucking then so is he. You know who else that describes to a tee? Jake Plummer
So yes Toothlessberger = Jake Plummer[/quote]
Jamie, Jamie, Jamie... although i disagree with 95% of what you post on here, i respect your opinions (and a few others) because i must admit you usually have good arguments and back them up. That being said, this is a stupid way of thinking here. By this rationale, since Carson is no good at rolling out of the pocket, then Palmer=Drew Bledsoe. I don't think so in either case, but whatever it's all a matter of opinion
Anyways, answer me this: If Ben is such a shitty quarterback that has no effect on the stealers, then why didn't Kordell or Maddox get this team to the super bowl with virtually the same team? In my mind it is no coincidence. [u]One[/u] bad year. Shit happens. I'll still be around here next season, and I'll eat my crow like a man if Ben has another year like this one. Will everyone here do the same if Ben gets back to his first 2 years (or beyond) ??

[JC]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='440458' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:29 PM']Jamie, Jamie, Jamie... although i disagree with 95% of what you post on here, i respect your opinions (and a few others) because i must admit you usually have good arguments and back them up. That being said, this is a stupid way of thinking here. By this rationale, since Carson is no good at rolling out of the pocket, then Palmer=Drew Bledsoe. I don't think so in either case, but whatever it's all a matter of opinion
Anyways, answer me this: If Ben is such a shitty quarterback that has no effect on the stealers, then why didn't Kordell or Maddox get this team to the super bowl with virtually the same team? In my mind it is no coincidence. [u]One[/u] bad year. Shit happens. I'll still be around here next season, and I'll eat my crow like a man if Ben has another year like this one. Will everyone here do the same if Ben gets back to his first 2 years (or beyond) ??[/quote]
Your right.

Ben isn't like jake...because he doesn't have a kick ass porn star 'stache.


and instead has douschebag facial hair that makes him look ultimately like a douschebag.


P.S. didn't Tommy take Pitt to the playoffs? Ben is slightly better then Tommy but Ben played 2 horrible D's and one mediocre one. (He shouldn't have made it past the first round because i watched Kitna carve that defense the first half. I can't imagine what Carson would have done.)

With that being said...he isn't a great QB and this year showed it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='440458' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:29 PM']Jamie, Jamie, Jamie... although i disagree with 95% of what you post on here, i respect your opinions (and a few others) because i must admit you usually have good arguments and back them up. That being said, this is a stupid way of thinking here. By this rationale, since Carson is no good at rolling out of the pocket, then Palmer=Drew Bledsoe. I don't think so in either case, but whatever it's all a matter of opinion
Anyways, answer me this: If Ben is such a shitty quarterback that has no effect on the stealers, then why didn't Kordell or Maddox get this team to the super bowl with virtually the same team? In my mind it is no coincidence. [u]One[/u] bad year. Shit happens. I'll still be around here next season, and I'll eat my crow like a man if Ben has another year like this one. Will everyone here do the same if Ben gets back to his first 2 years (or beyond) ??[/quote]


Palmer while not the most mobile QB is alot more mobile than Bledsoe, there were several times in the probowl that he he had to move and did, and thats not just the only time he has had to be mobile, yeah this year when the line was sucking he took more sacks than Id like but he moves when he has to, much more than I can say for Bledsoe.

And I never said Ben was a shitty QB, I said he was Average, Dilfer-esque even, Maddox and Kordell? Come on man Maddox had one decent year and sucked the rest of them and Kordell was a poor mans Michael Vick.

[frankie martin]

[quote name='JC' post='440469' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:48 PM']Your right.

Ben isn't like jake...because he doesn't have a kick ass porn star 'stache.
and instead has douschebag facial hair that makes him look ultimately like a douschebag.[/quote]
Wow. heh, not sure how we got to comparin facial hair. anyways.....
[quote name='JC' post='440469' date='Feb 12 2007, 08:48 PM']P.S. didn't Tommy take Pitt to the playoffs? Ben is slightly better then Tommy but Ben played 2 horrible D's and one mediocre one. (He shouldn't have made it past the first round because i watched Kitna carve that defense the first half. I can't imagine what Carson would have done.)
With that being said...he isn't a great QB and this year showed it.[/quote]
Concering Carson, maybe you guys would have won if Carson had been in, we'll never know. But you are correct, Tommy gun and Kordell both took us to the playoffs, but never took us to the big game, which was my whole point. The part about playing two horrible D's and one mediocre one (Bengals, Colts, Broncos) i fully disagree with. Those were the best teams in the league, hence the reason they made the playoffs. Granted maybe some had better O's than D's, but i would hardly call them horrible.

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440490' date='Feb 12 2007, 09:27 PM']Palmer while not the most mobile QB is alot more mobile than Bledsoe, there were several times in the probowl that he he had to move and did, and thats not just the only time he has had to be mobile, yeah this year when the line was sucking he took more sacks than Id like but he moves when he has to, much more than I can say for Bledsoe.[/quote]

Yeah, your boy is more mobile than people give him credit for. Kenny Anderson mustve taught him that, i can just imagine what he's going to teach Ben. (Totally joking about that one before anyone blows a gasket, i dont know why some of my fellow fans are so excited about him, but after last year anything can help) But seriously i know palmer can move

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440490' date='Feb 12 2007, 09:27 PM']And I never said Ben was a shitty QB, I said he was Average, Dilfer-esque even, Maddox and Kordell? Come on man Maddox had one decent year and sucked the rest of them and Kordell was a poor mans Michael Vick.[/quote]
I agree, i was pointing out that ben does in fact at least make a small difference. (ie it is not all the running game and D)

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='440523' date='Feb 12 2007, 10:25 PM']Yeah, your boy is more mobile than people give him credit for. Kenny Anderson mustve taught him that, i can just imagine what he's going to teach Ben. (Totally joking about that one before anyone blows a gasket, i dont know why some of my fellow fans are so excited about him, but after last year anything can help) But seriously i know palmer can move
I agree, i was pointing out that ben does in fact at least make a small difference. (ie it is not all the running game and D)[/quote]


Nor do I think its all the running game, or people would just stack the box and shut down your O every time. Ben at least provides enough of a threat that teams cant do that, but thats about it. Im just saying when the running game shuts down, Ben hasnt shown that he can win games without it, at least consistently.

Oh and Anderson wasnt here for Carson.


I agree I dont know what your fellow fans see in him either, I mean he coached Klinger and Smith and Leftwhich (who is likely out of Jvillie), most likely rampid homerism.

[Purple Predator]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='440539' date='Feb 12 2007, 10:45 PM'][b]Nor do I think its all the running game, or people would just stack the box and shut down your O every time. Ben at least provides enough of a threat that teams cant do that, but thats about it. Im just saying when the running game shuts down, Ben hasnt shown that he can win games without it, at least consistently.[/b]

Oh and Anderson wasnt here for Carson.
I agree I dont know what your fellow fans see in him either, I mean he coached Klinger and Smith and Leftwhich (who is likely out of Jvillie), most likely rampid homerism.[/quote]
Bingo.

I've never seen a quarterback so dependent upon the run as him. Maybe it's the offensive line that can't protect him when linemen are at an all-out pass rush or something, but when a defense isn't respecting the run, he's awful.

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Purple Predator' post='440994' date='Feb 13 2007, 10:01 PM']Bingo.

I've never seen a quarterback so dependent upon the run as him. Maybe it's the offensive line that can't protect him when linemen are at an all-out pass rush or something, but when a defense isn't respecting the run, he's awful.[/quote]
I won't put all the blame on the O-line, but the offensive line was inconsistent this year, which certainly didn't help. I think you guys had like 15 sacks in our 2 games or something ridiculous like that.
But don't fool yourself Pred, your boy has a pretty good running game to help him along, it's not as if he is "independent" on the run.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='frankie martin' post='441203' date='Feb 14 2007, 03:35 PM']I won't put all the blame on the O-line, but the offensive line was inconsistent this year, which certainly didn't help. I think you guys had like 15 sacks in our 2 games or something ridiculous like that.
But don't fool yourself Pred, your boy has a pretty good running game to help him along, it's not as if he is "independent" on the run.[/quote]


McNair has a average running game, frankly I would say that that is the reason they didnt do as well as they could have. Lewis may have had his 1000 yards but he was lackluster and hasnt been the same since he got out of the pen. I really dont know why they resigned him as opposed to drafting a RB.

[Purple Predator]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='441269' date='Feb 14 2007, 05:24 PM']McNair has a average running game, frankly I would say that that is the reason they didnt do as well as they could have. Lewis may have had his 1000 yards but he was lackluster and hasnt been the same since he got out of the pen. I really dont know why they resigned him as opposed to drafting a RB.[/quote]
In preseason, he looked like he was gonna be the back he has been, but it didn't turn out that way. I think the deal they made is pretty smart considering it wasn't that big of a hit this season, but it would be next season. He's basically been told he's not gonna get the $5 million bonus that he would get if the Ravens kept the current contract which they won't. I think he's gone. We'll free up some space to either sign AD to a long term deal or franchise him, or just give us room to sign some draft picks.

McNair's running game was less than average this year. 25th in the league in total yards and 31st in yards per carry. When the run did get going, it was because McNair had the offense running and the defense on their heals.