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Guest BlackJesus

Gays in the military ???

  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. In your opinion .... is homosexuality "immoral" ?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      11
    • Morality doesn't exist
      3
  2. 2. Should gays be allowed to serve in the US military ?

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      5
    • As long as they "don't tell"
      2
  3. 3. The army has lost 9,000 troops and many Arabic translators because of "Don't ask Don't tell" .... is it worth it ?

    • Yes ... we can't have "faggots" in the military
      6
    • No ... war on terror should trump arbitrary morals
      19
  4. 4. Can a gay man be just as good of a soldier as a straight man ?

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      5
    • They make even better soldiers than straight men = (Alexander the Great, Spartans etc)
      1


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Guest BlackJesus
[size=4][u][quote][img]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/archive/ap/peterpace.jpg[/img]
[b]Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral [/b]
Mar 13, 2007
Yahoo News[/u][/size]



WASHINGTON - The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Monday he considers homosexuality to be immoral and the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly, the Chicago Tribune reported.

Marine Gen. Peter Pace likened homosexuality to adultery, which he said was also immoral, the newspaper reported on its Web site.

"I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way," Pace told the newspaper in a wide-ranging interview.

Pace, a native of Brooklyn, N.Y., and a 1967 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, said he based his views on his upbringing.

He said he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay men and women are allowed in the military as long as they keep their sexual orientation private. The policy, signed into law by President Clinton in 1994, prohibits commanders from asking about a person's sexual orientation.

"I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts," Pace said.

The newspaper said Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops, including more than 50 specialists in Arabic, have been discharged because of the policy.

With Democrats in charge of Congress, Rep. Martin Meehan, D-Mass., has introduced legislation to reverse the military's ban on openly serving homosexuals.[/quote]


[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_gays"]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070313/ap_on_...e/military_gays[/url]

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Guest BlackJesus
[color="#0000FF"][b]Ironically the first American who was wounded in the latest Iraq war ..... has now come out of the closet ...[/b] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img][/color]





[size=4][u][quote][img]http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/02/27/PH2007022702193.jpg[/img]
[b]Defending His Country, but Not Its 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Policy[/b]
February 28, 2007
Washington Post[/u][/size]


Once a Marine, always a Marine. That pretty much sums up the life of retired Sgt. Eric Alva, who was sworn into the Marine Corps at 19, stationed in Somalia and Japan and lost his right leg when he stepped on a land mine on March 21, 2003, the first day of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

As the war's first injured soldier, Alva was an instant celebrity. He was on "Oprah." President Bush awarded him the Purple Heart. Donald Rumsfeld visited. And strangers in Alva's native San Antonio still insist on paying for his dinner at Chili's. Last fall Alva, 36, contacted the Human Rights Campaign, the gay rights group, and asked to be involved in its lobbying effort. Today he'll stand alongside Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Mass.) when he introduces a bill to repeal the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy on gay, lesbian and bisexual military personnel.

-- Jose Antonio Vargas

Q. Why didn't you come out sooner?

A.Eventually my notoriety -- "the injured soldier" -- will wear off. And I can almost hear it now -- "Oh, yeah, he's that gay Marine." I'm okay with that. The truth is, something's wrong with this ban. I have to say something. I mean, you're asking men and women to lie about their orientation, to keep their personal lives private, so they can defend the rights and freedoms of others in this country, and be told, "Well, oh, yeah, if you ever decide to really meet someone of the same sex and you want the same rights, sorry, buddy, you don't have the right." That's one factor. The other factor is, we're losing probably thousands of men and women that are skilled at certain types of jobs, from air traffic controllers to linguists, because of this broken policy.

You come from a military family?

I come from a family of servicemen. My dad, Fidelis, is a Vietnam vet. My grandfather, also named Fidelis, was a World War II and Korean War veteran. I was named after them. My middle name is Fidelis. Fidelis means "always faithful."

What does sexual orientation -- gay, straight, bisexual -- have to do with being a soldier? A Marine?

First, thanks for recognizing that I am a Marine. Second, to answer your question, I have tons and tons of friends that were in the military at the time who knew I was gay because I confided in them. Everybody had the same reaction: "What's the big deal?" . . . The respect was still there. Your job is what you're doing at its best. Your personal life, your private life, is something you do after work. What's funny is, when I was based in San Diego, Calif., people would go to a gay club and everyone would have a haircut like mine. They had their dog tags on. But come Monday morning, nobody talked about it, nobody dealt with it, everybody was back to work.

So when you were applying to be a Marine in 1990, before "Don't ask, don't tell" was implemented, the application asked for your sexual orientation?

It did.

What did you put down?

I lied, I lied. The lying is what I hated most -- why I had to do it, why I had to keep on doing it, the toll it took on me.

You're wearing a wedding band. What do you tell people when they ask you about your wife?

That happens all the time. It just happened on my way here to Washington, waiting on the plank as I boarded a plane. This very nice woman next to me said she recognized me. She looked at my ring and asked about my wife. I told her I have a partner. His name is Darrell. She paused and said, "Good for you."[/quote]


[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022701589.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7022701589.html[/url]

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Guest ONYX
[color="#FF0000"][b]As a Christian, it annoys the hell at me when I see homosexuality singled out. In my
belief system, sin is sin to God. No sin is greater or lesser than any other sin.

Is homosexuality wrong? Yes, but there is a hell of a lot of heterosexual sins that are just as bad. (I'm a bad heterosexual sinner)

Where is the same scrutiny from Christians about adultry, or pre-marital fornication?

According to the bible those are sins too, so basically if you are not married, and not a virgin, (such as I)
you are just as much a sinner as a homosexual. Thus, the U.S. Army shouldn't recruit you either.

Pace and many others in this country have a big ass plank in their eyes.
[/b][/color]

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[quote name='ONYX' post='455950' date='Mar 13 2007, 02:06 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b][color="#0000FF"]As a Christian, it annoys the hell at me when I see homosexuality singled out. In my
belief system, sin is sin to God. No sin is greater or lesser than any other sin.

Is homosexuality wrong? Yes, but there is a hell of a lot of heterosexual sins that are just as bad. (I'm a bad heterosexual sinner)

Where is the same scrutiny from Christians about adultry, or pre-marital fornication?

According to the bible those are sins too, so basically if you are not married, and not a virgin, (such as I)
you are just as much a sinner as a homosexual. [/color]Thus, the U.S. Army shouldn't recruit you either.

Pace and many others in this country have a big ass plank in their eyes.
[/b][/color][/quote]


:headbang:

As to wether they should be allowed to openly serve, thats a tough call. The military can be almost a fraternity of sorts and I dont know that it would be in their safest interest to be open about it.

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Guest bengalrick
god you make up the worse polls bj...

is homosexuality wrong imo? yes

should they be able to serve in the miliary? yes

the third question, why has the "don't ask, don't tell" led to 9,000 deaths? this is why i didn't do the poll

can a gay soldier be as good as a straight soldier? of course

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[quote name='bengalrick' post='455959' date='Mar 13 2007, 02:41 PM']god you make up the worse polls bj...

is homosexuality wrong imo? yes

should they be able to serve in the miliary? yes

the third question, why has the "don't ask, don't tell" led to 9,000 deaths? this is why i didn't do the poll

can a gay soldier be as good as a straight soldier? of course[/quote]

It didnt lead to 9000 deaths. That is the number of people(minus arab translators) kicked out of the military for being gay.

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote name='bengalrick' post='455959' date='Mar 13 2007, 01:41 PM']god you make up the worse polls bj...

the third question, why has the "don't ask, don't tell" led to 9,000 deaths? this is why i didn't do the poll[/quote]

:blink:



[b]A prime example of why "reading is fundamental". If you had taken the 1 minute to read the small article you would have seen that the 9,000 # = (In the above article it is actually 10,000 - but I have seen it cited as 9) .... were the number of soldiers that the US army lost for being gay = because of "don't ask Dont tell". They were not deaths .... and I never said they were.


Thus my poll is accurate .... :afropic:



[center]
[img]http://www.cyburbia.org/tmp/you_win_the_prize.jpg[/img]

:wave: [/b][/center]

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Guest BlackJesus
[size=3][quote name='Ben' post='455961' date='Mar 13 2007, 01:43 PM']It didnt lead to 9000 deaths. That is the number of people(minus arab translators) kicked out of the military for being gay.[/quote][/size]


[color="#9932CC"][b]"Now see BRick ..... Ben reads .... Yeah .... Go Ben !!! "[/b] :headbang: [/color]

[center][img]http://www.allsf.net/Images/SFcinema/Death%20to%20Smoochy%2004.jpg[/img][/center]

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[quote name='sneaky' post='455963' date='Mar 13 2007, 02:45 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]I wonder what "Rod Majors" thinks of this?[/b][/color][/quote]

man.....that name just screams male prostitute

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Guest bengalrick
[quote name='BlackJesus' post='455969' date='Mar 13 2007, 03:01 PM'][size=3][/size]
[color="#9932CC"][b]"Now see BRick ..... Ben reads .... Yeah .... Go Ben !!! "[/b] :headbang: [/color]

[center][img]http://www.allsf.net/Images/SFcinema/Death%20to%20Smoochy%2004.jpg[/img][/center][/quote]

in that case, the poll is very good and unbalanced... i picked "Yes ... we can't have "faggots" in the military"...

thanks for the unbiased and thought provoking poll... ;)

i admit, i read the article and the question wrong, but the poll still sucks...

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Guest CincyInDC
A lesbian friend of mine was taught Arabic by the Navy. When she grew weary of military life, she outed herself and went home.

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i have absolutely zero problems with women and gays in the military so long as they are not involved in direct fire combat roles

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[quote name='Nati Ice' post='455994' date='Mar 13 2007, 03:46 PM']i have absolutely zero problems with women and gays in the military so long as they are not involved in direct fire combat roles[/quote]

Are you being serious?

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[quote name='Ben' post='456000' date='Mar 13 2007, 03:56 PM']Are you being serious?[/quote]
whats so hard to understand

women are physically weaker than men, there is no argument against that, and as such men would take priority as better field soldiers, and since i would be wanting to keep any and all relationships and as much favoritism as possible out of our platoons... ergo, no homosexuals or women would be in direct fire roles. preferably they would all be younger physically capable single men. thats not some zany thought process, and is exactly how (the vast majority of) those running todays military see it as well.

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[quote name='Nati Ice' post='456025' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:33 PM']whats so hard to understand

women are physically weaker than men, there is no argument against that, and as such men would take priority as better field soldiers, and since i would be wanting to keep any and all relationships and as much favoritism as possible out of our platoons... ergo, no homosexuals or women would be in direct fire roles. preferably they would all be younger physically capable single men. thats not some zany thought process, and is exactly how (the vast majority of) those running todays military see it as well.[/quote]

So that is why Sgt. Eric Alva was the first to be shot... His inferior homo genes made him weak and an easy target.

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[quote name='Ben' post='456029' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:38 PM']So that is why Sgt. Eric Alva was the first to be shot... His inferior homo genes made him weak and an easy target.[/quote]
wtf are you talking about?

you cant refute what ive said so you attack my motives... good job, sir :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Nati Ice' post='456034' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:41 PM']wtf are you talking about?

you cant refute what ive said so you attack my motives... good job, sir :rolleyes:[/quote]

You said homosexuals make bad frontline soldiers

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote name='crazycat' post='456045' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:55 PM']Pace also said that adultry [u]was a sin[/u] and immoral as well.. sigh[/quote]


[b]Lying is as well ...

so lets discharge the commander and chief [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img] [/b]

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote name='Nati Ice' post='456025' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:33 PM']preferably they would all be younger physically capable single men.[/quote]


[b]Oh oh ... can we breed them and then take them from their mothers at the age of 7 as well .... and then trade them in Ninja warfare before the age of 9 ? What about giving them all a cool Arnold Schwartanazi accent ? and built in head lazer beams ?




:rolleyes:



[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/30.gif[/img][/b]

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[quote name='Ben' post='456042' date='Mar 13 2007, 04:50 PM']You said homosexuals make bad frontline soldiers[/quote]
where did i say that?

all i said was that it was best to keep any and all romantic relationships or favoritism separate from platoons in direct fire roles. there could be some great gay soldiers, as a matter of fact im sure there are, but allowing women and gays to serve alongside of straight males in the line of fire causes more bad than good. political correctness goes out the door when bullets start flying and that is why i totally understand the dont ask dont tell policy and why homosexual intercourse is grounds for a dishonorable discharge while on active duty.

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Guest BlackJesus
[quote name='Nati Ice' post='456051' date='Mar 13 2007, 05:00 PM'][s]political correctness[/s] [b] 2,000 year old desert goat herder myths and their accompanying moral code [/b] go out the door when bullets start flying[/quote]


:whistle:

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Guest BlackJesus
[b]To me it comes down to this ....


= Does Fucking another man in the ass .... make one less of a soldier ... or make you less effective at killing someone ?

No


Also it can't be shown that Gay guys are weaker than straight ones .... or less capable at warfare.


If anything on average - Gay guys stay in better shape than straight men and as a whole on average would probably be better in a combat type environment on the basis of overall fitness.





[color="#8B0000"]Just don't get behind me in the foxhole :ninja:[/b][/color]

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