GUN CONTROL & YOU

[big_dish]

[quote name='Fulcher_33' post='473792' date='Apr 17 2007, 07:40 PM']Japan is a gun free society and well....it works pretty fucking well. Of course the Yakuza have guns but it doesn't really seem to be a problem. I'm all for gun control.
MULLY[/quote]

But, you cant take a society like ours which is inundated with guns, and make them illegal. Then all law abiding citizens are without a means to protect themselves, while criminals still carry guns and wreak havoc. England is gun free as well, and it works over there too. America is much different than both of those countries. Gun Control only works here as a method of trying to keep guns out of the wrong peoples hands at point of purchase, not after 200+ years of free range gun ownership.

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='big_dish' post='473794' date='Apr 18 2007, 12:44 AM']But, you cant take a society like ours which is inundated with guns, and make them illegal. Then all law abiding citizens are without a means to protect themselves, while criminals still carry guns and wreak havoc. England is gun free as well, and it works over there too. America is much different than both of those countries. Gun Control only works here as a method of trying to keep guns out of the wrong peoples hands at point of purchase, not after 200+ years of free range gun ownership.[/quote]
Yeah, here we get a lot of stabbings, instead

[Lawman]

[i]DISCLAIMER: My intent was to post a new topic with Maynard on Income Taxes, but I found this...[/i]

[url="http://www.tammybruce.com/"]http://www.tammybruce.com/[/url]

[b]Gun Registration: An Inconvenient Detail
A Query by Maynard[/b]

[color="#0000FF"]Maynard is not a lawyer, and frankly often finds legal arguments beyond his meager ability to comprehend. So I make no claim that I'm correctly representing the situation here. I phrase this as a question, perhaps to be resolved by one of our more worldly associates.

Does anyone know of this 1968 Supreme Court case, "Haynes v. United States, 390 U.S. 85"? [url="http://supreme.justia.com/us/390/85/case.html"]Here's the legal opinion[/url], which will probably make your eyes glaze over. Somewhat more readably, [url="http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.haynes.html"]here's one man's analysis[/url], and he's not the only one explaining it in these terms.

This is the story: Miles Haynes, a previously-convicted criminal, was prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. So when they found him with a short-barreled shotgun, he was charged with failure to register the weapon. He defended himself by noting the requirement that he register meant he was expected to incriminate himself, and thus his Fifth Amendment rights had been violated ("No person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"). The Supreme Court agreed, ruling that:

We hold that a proper claim of the constitutional privilege against self-incrimination provides a full defense to prosecutions either for failure to register a firearm under sec. 5841 or for possession of an unregistered firearm under sec. 5851
Taking this at face value, it would seem that gun registration laws only apply to law-abiding citizens, but not to criminals.

The Internal Revenue Service faces a similar dilemma. My understanding is their solution is to protect the taxpayer from having his tax forms used to convict him of criminal activity. For example, if you make money selling illicit drugs, you can declare this as taxable income, and you'll face no criminal consequences. This satisfies the IRS, because they get their money, and that's all they wanted from you. But there's no analogous solution with respect to gun registration, where the fundamental idea is to keep guns out of the hands of people who aren't allowed to have them.[/color]

[Storm]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473799' date='Apr 17 2007, 11:45 PM']Yeah, here we get a lot of stabbings, instead [/quote]


I'd rather be shot than stabbed

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='Storm' post='473805' date='Apr 18 2007, 12:54 AM']I'd rather be shot than stabbed[/quote]
I'd rather box, but I don't figure some dipshit thug is gonna give me the choice

It's weird to see even the cops over here without guns. Of course, with all of the eyes in the sky over here, I don't know where a fugitive could run from the cops if he wanted to, but I would have to think that unarmed cops would be less of a crime deterrent for sure.

[staticx682000]

Link [url="http://keyetv.com/local/local_story_107174031.html"]http://keyetv.com/local/local_story_107174031.html[/url]
Nice read for pro gun people.

Luby's Shooting Survivor Addresses VA Tech Massacr

(CBS 42) Before the Virginia Tech massacre, the worst mass shooting was the lunchtime massacre at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen back in 1991.

Watching the Virginia Tech massacre unfold, like other mass shootings across the country, left Suzanna Hupp both sad and angry.

"Every single one of the shootings have occurred in gun free zones,” Hupp said. “I think the politicians have created a shopping list for madmen."

Fifteen and a half years ago she helplessly watched as George Hennard drove his pickup into a crowded restaurant and systematically murdered her parents and 22 others.

"They said my mother was cradling my father, that she looked up at the gunman and he put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger,” Hupp said. “My parents had just celebrated their 47th wedding anniversary."

At the time, carrying a concealed weapon was illegal.

"I reached for my purse on the ground thinking, 'I’ve got him. I've got this guy',” Hupp said.

But her gun was still outside in the car.

"It was a stupid decision. One that I will regret forever,” Hupp said. “I would much rather be sitting in jail with a felony offense on my head and have my parents alive."

Turning anger into action, Hupp says she helped pass a concealed handgun law in Texas to give victims a fighting chance when staring down a killer.

And she's absolutely convinced if Virginia Tech officials had not banned guns on campus, this week's body count would have been much lower.

"It would have been prevented," Hupp said. "In fact, he never would have tried because people like him look for easy targets."

Recently, Virginia Tech officials testified at a legislative hearing against allowing their professors or students over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

Hupp questions, if guns are the problem, why don't any of these mass killings ever take place at a gun show or at a National Rifle Association convention?

[Ben]

This is one of the better polls you have done BJ.


I think the answer is somewhere between the NRA folks and Brady Bill Folks. I have no problem w/ people owning a few guns, but do you need an AK47?

[staticx682000]

[quote name='Ben' post='473816' date='Apr 17 2007, 07:10 PM']This is one of the better polls you have done BJ.
I think the answer is somewhere between the NRA folks and Brady Bill Folks. I have no problem w/ people owning a few guns, but do you need an AK47?[/quote]Why because you have the right,they take one they take all..For one there are a lot of things i dont agree with, but taking someones rights i am not down with that..

[|Bengal Migration|]

[quote name='staticx682000' post='473817' date='Apr 18 2007, 01:14 AM']Why because you have the right,they take one they take all..For one there are a lot of things i dont agree with, but taking someones rights i am not down with that..[/quote]
I often hear this arguement a lot from pro-gun folks, though I don't recall seeing the NRA come out against the Patriot Act....

Pretty ironic, imo.

[staticx682000]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473819' date='Apr 17 2007, 07:17 PM']I often hear this arguement a lot from pro-gun folks, though I don't recall seeing the NRA come out against the Patriot Act....

Pretty ironic, imo.[/quote]Yes i agree. I for one was against it..The reason i was against it, was because i did not know enough about it..

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473819' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:17 PM']I often hear this arguement a lot from pro-gun folks, though I don't recall seeing the NRA come out against the Patriot Act....

Pretty ironic, imo.[/quote]
purely a political reason, on the whole who are the members of the nra?

uneducated, working class, patriotic, conservatives... not exactly those too concerned with "facts"

(yes, thats extremely biased, but from my dealings it is also entirely accurate)

[big_dish]

[quote name='staticx682000' post='473813' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:06 PM']Link [url="http://keyetv.com/local/local_story_107174031.html"]http://keyetv.com/local/local_story_107174031.html[/url]
Nice read for pro gun people.

Luby's Shooting Survivor Addresses VA Tech Massacr

(CBS 42) Before the Virginia Tech massacre, the worst mass shooting was the lunchtime massacre at Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen back in 1991.

Watching the Virginia Tech massacre unfold, like other mass shootings across the country, left Suzanna Hupp both sad and angry.

"Every single one of the shootings have occurred in gun free zones," Hupp said. "I think the politicians have created a shopping list for madmen."

Fifteen and a half years ago she helplessly watched as George Hennard drove his pickup into a crowded restaurant and systematically murdered her parents and 22 others.

"They said my mother was cradling my father, that she looked up at the gunman and he put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger," Hupp said. "My parents had just celebrated their 47th wedding anniversary."

At the time, carrying a concealed weapon was illegal.

"I reached for my purse on the ground thinking, 'I've got him. I've got this guy'," Hupp said.

But her gun was still outside in the car.

"It was a stupid decision. One that I will regret forever," Hupp said. "I would much rather be sitting in jail with a felony offense on my head and have my parents alive."

Turning anger into action, Hupp says she helped pass a concealed handgun law in Texas to give victims a fighting chance when staring down a killer.

And she's absolutely convinced if Virginia Tech officials had not banned guns on campus, this week's body count would have been much lower.

"It would have been prevented," Hupp said. "In fact, he never would have tried because people like him look for easy targets."

Recently, Virginia Tech officials testified at a legislative hearing against allowing their professors or students over the age of 21 to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

Hupp questions, if guns are the problem, why don't any of these mass killings ever take place at a gun show or at a National Rifle Association convention?[/quote]


Thats been my argument for concealed carry for years, and my example Re: Sofa Express in my long post above.

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473811' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:04 PM']I'd rather box, but I don't figure some dipshit thug is gonna give me the choice

It's weird to see even the [s]cops[/s] bobbies over here without guns. Of course, with all of the eyes in the sky over here, I don't know where a fugitive could run from the [s]cops[/s] bobbies if he wanted to, but I would have to think that unarmed [s]cops[/s] bobbies would be less of a crime deterrent for sure.[/quote]
tee he teee he te he te he te he

(or should i say "tea he?")


*giggles for no damn reason*

[Nati Ice]

[quote name='Ben' post='473816' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:10 PM']This is one of the better polls you have done BJ.
I think the answer is somewhere between the NRA folks and Brady Bill Folks. I have no problem w/ people owning a few guns, but do you need an AK47?[/quote]whats the difference between an ak and any other semi-automatic rifle?

id much rather some people have an ak than some of the other more dangerous guns on the market

[big_dish]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473799' date='Apr 17 2007, 07:45 PM']Yeah, here we get a lot of stabbings, instead [/quote]

Yeah, its human nature, its not the guns, its the people. WIthout guns, people would kill with knives. Without knifes, people would kill with clubs. Without clubs, people would kill with fists.... etc etc so on and so forth...

Im just glad there are so many responsible people out there driving cars

Thats the death mongrel...Thats where control needs to be focused, stiffer penalties for DUI, recklessness, etc... somehow.

[Guest LoyalFanInGA]

1 I believe in gun control
2 2nd amendment applies to all US citizens
3 no limit on the # of guns
4 no, everything that isn't a single shot or an automatic weapon is semi-automatic which means it will fire a round as fast as you pull the trigger, a double barrel shotgun is a semiautomatic weapon for two rounds
5 high capacity magazines should be banned
6 background checks and anal cavity search...that will cut down on the # of customers...trust me on this one
7 48 waiting period or longer and must attend and pass a safety course
8 I don't know how registering you gun with the police will help deter crime
9 concealed carry should not be allowed everywhere
10 large # of guns in US makes me feel less safe
11 I own more than one gun
12 2nd amendment shouldn't cover a bazooka, I'm not sure if it actually does, but I'm sure there is a lawyer who will argue it does
13 NRA is too powerful
14 gun ownship is not a way to combat crime, it is a way to protect yourself and family; the police combat crime not private gun owners
15 fingerprint device...is it feasible yet?
16 too many guns

[big_dish]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='473832' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:49 PM']whats the difference between an ak and any other semi-automatic rifle?

id much rather some people have an ak than some of the other more dangerous guns on the market[/quote]
Yeah, an AK really isnt any worse than others, its the name that invokes "danger" for people who are unknowledgeable about guns (not saying anything about you Ben, just in general)... Just Like Mac-10's.... Badass name, but only badass if you really enjoy guns that jam up on you, heavy pistol like shape, and difficulty controlling recoil, thus making it a terrible gun to rely on.

[Jason]

This should stop the gun control arguement.

Check the violent and gun crime rate in Washington DC, which has the toughest gun control laws in the US.

Then do a google search on Kennesaw Georgia.

You may be amazed at what you find.

[Guest LoyalFanInGA]

[quote name='Nati Ice' post='473832' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:49 PM']whats the difference between an ak and any other semi-automatic rifle?

id much rather some people have an ak than some of the other more dangerous guns on the market[/quote]

An AK has a round which is 7.62mm x 39mm

An M4 or M16 has a round which is 5.56mm x ??mm (i don't remember)

The 7.62 makes a much bigger hole

[big_dish]

[quote name='Jason' post='473839' date='Apr 17 2007, 08:56 PM']This should stop the gun control arguement.

Check the violent and gun crime rate in Washington DC, which has the toughest gun control laws in the US.

Then do a google search on Kennesaw Georgia.

You may be amazed at what you find.[/quote]

Without doing this search, I know from research previously done by myself for a thesis on the argument for Concealed Carry, violent crime dropped drastically in every state that legalized concealed carry.... Not sure if thats what you are talking about though.

[CatScratchFever]

Gun control laws do absolutely nothing to keep us safe. Criminals who want guns will get them regardless of whether it is legal or not. That's why we call them criminals. They do illegal things.

The two largest terrorist attacks in the US were performed with box cutters, gasoline, and fertilizer. Not a single gun was involved.

[staticx682000]

If guns are to be banned,start with everything known to man...The gun is a tool take that tool away people will find another...

[big_dish]

[quote name='staticx682000' post='473845' date='Apr 17 2007, 09:05 PM']If guns are to be banned,start with everything known to man...The gun is a tool take that tool away people will find another...[/quote]


Ahem....

[quote name='big_dish']Yeah, its human nature, its not the guns, its the people. WIthout guns, people would kill with knives. Without knifes, people would kill with clubs. Without clubs, people would kill with fists.... etc etc so on and so forth...[/quote]

[Actium]

[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='473799' date='Apr 17 2007, 06:45 PM']Yeah, here we get a lot of stabbings, instead [/quote]

That's even worse than crucifiction! / Life of Brian

[Jason]

[quote name='big_dish' post='473843' date='Apr 17 2007, 09:01 PM']Without doing this search, I know from research previously done by myself for a thesis on the argument for Concealed Carry, violent crime dropped drastically in every state that legalized concealed carry.... Not sure if thats what you are talking about though.[/quote]

No, it's not about concealed carry. Lots of places have that. Kennesaw is fairly unique in what it has done.