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[quote name='Jungle_Boogie85' post='500052' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:25 PM']The Bam Morris lurch posted a thread that said "leon hall has been arrested on possesion charges." I just caught and read it before it was deleted. I was guilty of seeing the topic before what forum it was in. It was just something stupid.[/quote]

He posted similar threads about all the bengals players
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[quote name='oftt4' post='502923' date='Jun 21 2007, 12:06 PM']Carson is a great big game QB!

Am I banned yet?

Just messing with ya. Settle down.[/quote]

Settle down? Why?

That's the greatest thing anyone could say about Palmer at this time. The questioning of "big game" performance is a mark of a future HOF QB.

The questioning of Palmer's big game performances is just a result of not being able to question anything else.
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[quote name='Jungle_Boogie85' post='500052' date='Jun 13 2007, 07:25 PM']The Bam Morris lurch posted a thread that said "leon hall has been arrested on possesion charges." I just caught and read it before it was deleted. I was guilty of seeing the topic before what forum it was in. It was just something stupid.[/quote]

It doesn't matter if he gets banned. He'll just re-surface under some user name like 5SBTrophiesWontBringMyTeethBack.
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[quote name='scharm' post='502927' date='Jun 21 2007, 12:45 PM']Settle down? Why?

That's the greatest thing anyone could say about Palmer at this time. The questioning of "big game" performance is a mark of a future HOF QB.

The questioning of Palmer's big game performances is just a result of not being able to question anything else.[/quote]


Oh, I thought it was just pointing out that he loses every important game that he plays. Not sure how that is the mark of a future hall of fame QB. McNabb puts up good numbers too, but he doesnt perform well in big games. Is he going to the Hall?
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[quote name='oftt4' post='502982' date='Jun 21 2007, 03:12 PM']Oh, I thought it was just pointing out that he loses every important game that he plays. Not sure how that is the mark of a future hall of fame QB. McNabb puts up good numbers too, but he doesnt perform well in big games. Is he going to the Hall?[/quote]


bookmarked
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[quote name='oftt4' post='502982' date='Jun 21 2007, 03:12 PM']Oh, I thought it was just pointing out that he loses every important game that he plays. Not sure how that is the mark of a future hall of fame QB. McNabb puts up good numbers too, but he doesnt perform well in big games. Is he going to the Hall?[/quote]
wow, youre fucking dumb... tell me a game when carson has cost us
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[quote name='oftt4' post='502982' date='Jun 21 2007, 03:12 PM']Oh, I thought it was just pointing out that he loses every important game that he plays. Not sure how that is the mark of a future hall of fame QB. McNabb puts up good numbers too, but he doesnt perform well in big games. Is he going to the Hall?[/quote]

I don't know about McNabb's HOF chances, I do know he's been a pretty good QB for a whole bunch of years.

I don't know about Carson's HOF chances, I do know the only thing people can bring up negative about him is..... "Well he hasn't won the big one, yet"

Not to shabby for a QB going into his 5th season. Which is a whole lot better than Ben having to prove he's not Trent Dilfer.
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[quote name='Nati Ice' post='503005' date='Jun 21 2007, 04:44 PM']wow, youre fucking dumb... tell me a game when carson has cost us[/quote]

Well...I might be fucking dumb...cant argue that I guess

2004 (quotes from game recaps):

Week3 Lost 23-9 (Costly Interceptions)
Palmer was 25-of-52 for 316 yards, but got sacked four times and threw three interceptions, two of them to safety Ed Reed near the end zone. `You can't get greedy,'' Palmer said. ``When you're a young quarterback, you get greedy, and I have to fight that temptation. You need to develop patience. When something isn't there, you don't just throw it up in the air.''

Week 8 Lost 27-20 (Not hanging on to the football)
Still, the Titans nearly blew a 14-point lead as Palmer tried to rally the Bengals in the final 2:35, marching them to the Tennessee 9. But tackle Albert Haynesworth sacked Palmer on first-and-goal, knocking the ball loose, and end Juqua Thomas recovered to seal the victory.

Week 11 Lost 19-14 (Bad penalty)
The clinching play came with 2:38 left and Palmer under heavy pressure in his end zone. He threw the ball away, drawing a grounding call and a safety. Fans tossed three beer bottles onto the field in disgust.


2005

Week 7 Lost 27-13 (Costly INT's)
The last time Palmer struggled was in his last game against the Steelers, a 19-14 loss in Cincinnati last season. It happened again. pissburgh had two interceptions in the third quarter, setting up a decisive 10-point spurt. Palmer hadn't thrown an interception in 20 quarters and 169 attempts. To make matters worse, Palmer got flattened by his former Southern California roommate, safety Troy Polamalu, as he tried to make a tackle on one interception return. Palmer finished 21-of-36 for 227 yards.

Week 16 Lost 37-27 (Costly INT's)
McGee clinched it by picking off Carson Palmer's sideline pass-under-pressure and returning it untouched. Palmer, going to the Pro Bowl in only his second season, went 25-of-36 for 266 yards with two interceptions.
"Just a bad decision," Palmer said. "I was just trying to get the ball out of bounds (after a completion) and stop the clock. He made a good play on the ball. I should have thrown it over his head and into the stands."

2006
Week 9 Lost 26-20 (Costly INT's)
McNair fared far better than Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer, who went 12-of-26 for 195 yards. His first pass was intercepted and returned for a touchdown, and his last pass was also intercepted, ending any hope the Bengals (4-4) had of finishing a comeback from a 17-0 deficit.

Week 15 Lost 34-16 (Just not performing)
And the Colts never let the Bengals' fourth-ranked passing attack hit stride. Dwight Freeney led the defense with three sacks and Carson Palmer was a pedestrian 14-for-28 for 176 yards. "I'm not stunned -- disappointed," Palmer said. "I felt we had an opportunity to win, a chance to extend our season. I played terrible, I missed too many balls."


I will be the first one to say that Ben has cost us games. You asked the question, that was my answer.

Palmer is a great QB. I can admit that, but every QB costs his team some games from time to time.
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I always get a chuckle when you gut bring up '04. 99.9999999999999 percent of QBs in their first year struggle. If Ben comes in next year and plays well passing more then this year for him was a fluke and due to injury (again if so he shouldnt have played), I just dont see it.

Im only going on history of the NFL when talking about Carson in '04 and of Ben's passing attempts when talking about him period.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503158' date='Jun 22 2007, 11:07 AM']I always get a chuckle when you gut bring up '04. 99.9999999999999 percent of QBs in their first year struggle. If Ben comes in next year and plays well passing more then this year for him was a fluke and due to injury (again if so he shouldnt have played), I just dont see it.

Im only going on history of the NFL when talking about Carson in '04 and of Ben's passing attempts when talking about him period.[/quote]


I get a chuckle when you guys say that 04 was Palmer's 1st year.

Does that make last year Rivers first year? He didnt struggle too much (until the end). By your reasoning, Tom Brady won the Superbowl in his first year. I will agree that 99.9999999% of ROOKIE QB's struggle, but players that are groomed for a year or more before they start tend to take off running.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='502982' date='Jun 21 2007, 02:12 PM']Oh, I thought it was just pointing out that he loses every important game that he plays. Not sure how that is the mark of a future hall of fame QB. McNabb puts up good numbers too, but he doesnt perform well in big games. Is he going to the Hall?[/quote]

Carson has usually played well enough for us to win the big games. The game in 05 against the Bills should have been won. That was a failure of special teams and the defense. He played well enough to win 2 of the last 3 games this past season. the other Big Game, the Playoff appearance, he never had the chance to prove what he could do, beyond the 66 yard bomb.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='503203' date='Jun 22 2007, 02:03 PM']I get a chuckle when you guys say that 04 was Palmer's 1st year.

Does that make last year Rivers first year? He didnt struggle too much (until the end). By your reasoning, Tom Brady won the Superbowl in his first year. I will agree that 99.9999999% of ROOKIE QB's struggle, but players that are groomed for a year or more before they start tend to take off running.[/quote]


Did he play in 03? Then yes it was his 1st year PLAYING. I dont care how long you spend on the bench, the majority of QBs still have to adjust to the speed of the game.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503208' date='Jun 22 2007, 02:31 PM']Did he play in 03? Then yes it was his 1st year PLAYING. I dont care how long you spend on the bench, the majority of QBs still have to adjust to the speed of the game.[/quote]

Lets take a run through last year's starters. I consider their first year as a full time starter as the one in which they first led their team in passing yardage. I only list QB's that were drafted and with David Carr and Mark Brunell, there is nothing to compare to, so I left them off.

Drew Brees (2nd round pick, sat one year)
1st year as a full time starter, 76.9 rating, went 8-8 with a team that was 5-11 the year before. 3 game improvement.

Peyton Manning (1st round pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 71.2 rating, went 3-13 with a team that was 3-13 the year before. No change.

Marc Bulger (6th round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 81.4 rating, went 12-4 with a team that was 7-9 the year before. 5 game improvement.

Carson Palmer (1st round pick, sat one year)
1st year as a full time starter, 77.3 rating, went 8-8 with a team that was 8-8 the year before. No change.

Brett Favre (2nd round pick, sat one year)
1st year as a full time starter, 85.3 rating, went 9-7 with a team that was 4-12 the year before. 5 game improvement.

Tom Brady (6th round pick, sat one year)
1st year as a full time starter, 86.5 rating, went 11-5 with a team that was 5-11 the year before. 6 game improvement.

Ben Roethlisberger (1st round pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 98.1 rating, went 15-1 with a team that was 6-10 the year before. 9 game improvement.

Phillip Rivers (1st round pick, sat two years)
1st year as a full time starter, 92.0 rating, went 14-2 with a team that was 9-7 the year before. 5 game improvement.

Chad Pennington (1st round pick, sat two years)
1st year as a full time starter, 104.2 rating, went 9-7 with a team that was 10-6 the year before. 1 game decline.

Eli Manning (1st round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 75.9 rating, went 11-5 with a team that was 6-10 the year before. 5 game improvement.

Rex Grossman (1stround pick, sat/injured three years)
1st year as a full time starter, 73.9 rating, went 13-3 with a team that was 11-5 the year before. 2 game improvement.

JP Losman (1st round pick, sat one and a half years)
1st year as a full time starter, 84.9 rating, went 7-9 with a team that was 5-11 the year before. 2 game improvement.

Steve McNair (1st round pick, sat one and a half years)
1st year as a full time starter, 70.4 rating, went 8-8 with a team that was 8-8the year before. No change.

Alex Smith (1st round pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 40.8 rating, went 4-12 with a team that was 2-14 the year before. 2 game improvement.

Brad Johsnon (9th round pick, sat two years)
1st year as a full time starter, 89.4 rating, went 9-7 with a team that was 8-8 the year before. 1 game improvement.

Donovan McNabb (1st round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 77.8 rating, went 11-5 with a team that was 5-11 the year before. 6 game improvement.

Matt Leinart (1st round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 74.0 rating, went 5-11 with a team that was 5-11 the year before. No change.

Mike Vick (1st round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 81.6 rating, went 9-6-1 with a team that was 7-9 the year before. 2 game improvement.

Charlie Frye (3rd round pick, sat half of first year)
1st year as a full time starter, 72.2 rating, went 4-12 with a team that was 6-10 the year before. 2 game decline.

Matt Hasselbeck (6th round pick, sat two years)
1st year as a full time starter, 70.9 rating, went 9-7 with a team that was 6-10 the year before. 1 game improvement.

Joey Harrington (1st round pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 59.9 rating, went 3-13 with a team that was 2-14 the year before. 1 game improvement.

Vince Young (1stround pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 66.7 rating, went 8-8 with a team that was 4-12 the year before. 4 game improvement.

Jake Plummer (2nd round pick, started as a rookie)
1st year as a full time starter, 73.1 rating, went 4-12 with a team that was 7-9 the year before. 3 game decline.



So, if you look at these 23 QB's, not all of them had great passing numbers, but 16 (70%) of them improved their team's record the first year they started. As a matter of fact, the average improvement over all of them is 2.3 games. I think that shows that the "majority" of QB's do fairly well in their first year as far as wins/losses.
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And how many of them replaced the NFL'c comeback player of the year? In his 1st year playing Carson was already able to put up the same record that Kitna did. That shows 2 things 1. Carson was on his way to being so much better than Kitna, and 2. Kitna was not a QB that could lead a team to the playoffs.

The repainting of history you guys do is too funny. And you all do it, you pull up stats but never ever paint the whole picture because stats never do paint the whole picture.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503449' date='Jun 23 2007, 12:58 PM']The repainting of history you guys do is too funny. And you all do it, you pull up stats but never ever paint the whole picture because stats never do paint the whole picture.[/quote]

Stats and wins/losses. Those are objective. Can't argue with them. Everything else is subjective opinions
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[quote name='frankie martin' post='503456' date='Jun 23 2007, 01:18 PM']Stats and wins/losses. Those are objective. Can't argue with them. Everything else is subjective opinions[/quote]


Wins/losses are team accomplishments. Probowl MVPs are won by the individual.

And my point was that Kitna was good enough to put up 8-8, most of the QBs he had listed didnt have that kind of QB behind them comming in. :wave:

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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503460' date='Jun 23 2007, 01:39 PM']Wins/losses are team accomplishments. Probowl MVPs are won by the individual.

And my point was that Kitna was good enough to put up 8-8, most of the QBs he had listed didnt have that kind of QB behind them comming in. :wave:[/quote]


Probowl MVP's are about as useful to your team as tits on a bull. I would take strong playoff run over a ProBowl any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

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[quote name='oftt4' post='503462' date='Jun 23 2007, 01:54 PM']Probowl MVP's are about as useful to your team as tits on a bull. I would take strong playoff run over a ProBowl any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.[/quote]


It will come, like I said injuries have been the tale tale sign of what the team has done since Carson got hurt till we lost ALOT of players last year. There are only 2 guys that I dont expect to start due to injury this year at the begining of the year in Pollack and Perry. So long as we stay realitivly healthy there is no reason for us not to get in and make a run at it this year. Does that mean Superbowl? I dont see it on paper, but you never know, the best teams on paper dont always win the superbowl.
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[quote name='frankie martin' post='503456' date='Jun 23 2007, 01:18 PM']Stats and wins/losses. Those are objective. Can't argue with them. Everything else is subjective opinions[/quote]


TD 18 INT 23

Yep your right, thats objective. You win. :pointlaff:

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