LOL

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='501905' date='Jun 18 2007, 07:17 PM']Why is it that when you lost in the playoffs (the 1 year you made it since 1980something) it's because Palmer got hurt but when you lost last year it's because the Steelers had a good defense? Actually our defense was a lot worse than 2005.

Please explain.

[/quote]


So then what your saying is that the 05 team isnt the same as the 06 team. Now could you say the same for us? I mean our 05 team had alot less impact players on IR. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//39.gif[/img]

And while I realize that good teams adapt to injury, can you name me one team (preferablly in the AFC as there is better compition there, or if not at least a NFC team that isnt in the bottom tear of playoff teams that get in on 8-8 records) that make the playoffs with 2 of their 3 linebackers missing for the year, both their punt and kick returner missing for the year. As well as many others missing multiple games?

Again what is the line between excuses and reasons? When your team didnt do well in '03 was it because you werent that good or was it due to the multitude of injures? What about last year? You didnt have that many injuires in comparison to us. Why didnt you make the playoffs last year? You only lost 3 starters in Hope, Bettis, and Randel El. I would argue that if you told me in 03 it was due to the # of injuries I might agree, and say our team last year was similar to your '03 team in that way. What about your team last year? Are there good reasons or were the "mighty steelers" who many of you came here saying that you winning the division this year was a lock, because well...your the "mighty steelers".

Keep trying, you know I have valid points and its killing you isnt it?

[|Bunghole|]

We have a few "excuses" for our poor and inconsistent play last season, and they are, in no order of importance:
Carson rehabbing his knee and not being 100% (thanks Steelers!)
The loss of Rich Braham, our vet center, early in the season and having to adapt to a new one that struggled in the early going.
The injury to Levi Jones, our PRO BOWL tackle, that forced a rookie (Whitworth) into action (he did rather well, but still a rookie)
Willie Anderson's perpetual old age and health issues which cost him some games.
So there is the oline injuries alone, our play calling center, and both starting tackles, that helps explain why Carson got harassed and sacked so much (he does need to tuck the ball away better when he knows he's going down, he has horrible fumbleitis when hit from his blindside).
It also explains our inconsistency on offense as the oline was shuffled around like a Puerto Rican whore on a Sunday.

OK, then factor in the suspensions, the massive injuries on defense, and the lapses in our kicking game late in the year, and you have an 8-8 year that bespeaks of underachievement.

I'll admit it....the Steelers defense owned us in that first game and we only won on big plays and the miscue by Colclough was certainly HUGE.
But we should have performed better down the stretch and we failed.
That Denver game sticks in my craw more than anything. We were pushing those guys all over the field and couldn't get it done.

But rest assured Bam, we WILL be more consistent this season, and you have EVERY RIGHT to be concerned not only about your team with a new coach and system that Ben may or may not thrive in, but about your defense's ability to contain our healthy offense.

Our defense? Up in the air. As long as they can get the crucial 3 and outs or turnovers when it matters, than that's all we need provided our offense is on time. See Indianapolis Colts.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='501918' date='Jun 18 2007, 07:29 PM']So then what your saying is that the 05 team isnt the same as the 06 team. Now could you say the same for us? I mean our 05 team had alot less impact players on IR. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img]

And while I realize that good teams adapt to injury, can you name me one team (preferablly in the AFC as there is better compition there, or if not at least a NFC team that isnt in the bottom tear of playoff teams that get in on 8-8 records) that make the playoffs with 2 of their 3 linebackers missing for the year, both their punt and kick returner missing for the year. As well as many others missing multiple games?

Again what is the line between excuses and reasons? When your team didnt do well in '03 was it because you werent that good or was it due to the multitude of injures? What about last year? You didnt have that many injuires in comparison to us. [b]Why didnt you make the playoffs last year?[/b] You only lost 3 starters in Hope, fat fuck bettis, and Randel El. I would argue that if you told me in 03 it was due to the # of injuries I might agree, and say our team last year was similar to your '03 team in that way. What about your team last year? Are there good reasons or were the "mighty steelers" who many of you came here saying that you winning the division this year was a lock, because well...your the "mighty steelers".

Keep trying, you know I have valid points and its killing you isnt it?[/quote]



we got off to a 2-6 start, couldn't stop with the turnovers, Ben played like shit 1st half of the season after all the crazy things that happened to him, Cowher didn't give a shit the whole season, Oline was terrible, Ike Taylor regressed big time.

I guess we shall see. Should be intersting to see what Ben's #'s look like in a non-Cowher offense. I would kill for your WR's though. Got to admit that you all have the best IF Henry ever comes back. Would love to see what Ben could do with WR's like that. Wish we had kept Slaxico. He and Ben would have been a good combo if they could have played together a lot longer. Hines is great and maybe a HOFer after all is said and done but he is known for being a great all-around WR, catching,blocking, vs, having a sepcific athletic skill set such as stretching the field like Henry. Henry in my opinion is better than Johnson and Houshmanzinidaydeh.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='501929' date='Jun 18 2007, 07:55 PM']we got off to a 2-6 start, couldn't stop with the turnovers, Ben played like shit 1st half of the season after all the crazy things that happened to him, Cowher didn't give a shit the whole season, Oline was terrible, Ike Taylor regressed big time.

I guess we shall see. Should be intersting to see what Ben's #'s look like in a non-Cowher offense. I would kill for your WR's though. Got to admit that you all have the best IF Henry ever comes back. Would love to see what Ben could do with WR's like that. Wish we had kept Slaxico. He and Ben would have been a good combo if they could have played together a lot longer. Hines is great and maybe a HOFer after all is said and done but he is known for being a great all-around WR, catching,blocking, vs, having a sepcific athletic skill set such as stretching the field like Henry. Henry in my opinion is better than Johnson and Houshmanzinidaydeh.[/quote]


I do agree that our WRs are good, but how much of that is Carson? TJ was unheard of untill Carson came here. But its not only Carson and the WRs, having a 1400 yard back in Rudi helps, having two of the best T's in the league helps. Having above average G's helps, as Bung said having a solid C when he wasnt hurt last year helps. But none of those cogs work as well without Carson, Kitna isnt in the same league. I mean come on, you saw him drop that ball in that playoff game with nobody around him and he had his full line intact. That is classic Kitna, you dont see Carson making mistakes like that, sure he may make them when his oline is in disaray like it was for several games last year, but you never see him just drop a ball with nobody around him.

Carson is to us what Payton Manning is to the Colts, simply put we are not nearly as good without him. Could Jim Sorgi take the Colts to the playoffs in a competive division like were in with their damn good WRs? I think we both know that answer.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='501929' date='Jun 18 2007, 05:55 PM']we got off to a 2-6 start, couldn't stop with the turnovers, Ben played like shit 1st half of the season after all the crazy things that happened to him, Cowher didn't give a shit the whole season, Oline was terrible, Ike Taylor regressed big time.

I guess we shall see. Should be intersting to see what Ben's #'s look like in a non-Cowher offense. I would kill for your WR's though. Got to admit that you all have the best IF Henry ever comes back. Would love to see what Ben could do with WR's like that. Wish we had kept Slaxico. He and Ben would have been a good combo if they could have played together a lot longer. Hines is great and maybe a HOFer after all is said and done but he is known for being a great all-around WR, catching,blocking, vs, having a sepcific athletic skill set such as stretching the field like Henry. Henry in my opinion is better than Johnson and Houshmanzinidaydeh.[/quote]
I'll give you Hines...he is your Ward to our Houshmanzadeh in terms of making the tough plays over the middle, being dirty and blocking when required.
You guys are better off without Plaxico, imo. He was trying to be Randy Moss before he even put up Moss numbers. That guy is a POS.
But you DO need another playmaker at WR to compliment Ward, and I just don't see Holmes or Nate bailing out Jen like Johnson and co. do for Palmer.
And your RB situation should worry you as well, especially given the Faneca situation.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

I just like giving everyone here a hard time. It's all in good fun. I do want you to know this is probably one of the best sites I have ever seen in regards to football and other things. Stillers.com is pretty "on the edge" like this site is but as far as all the "bells and whistles" this site is real good.

In all honesty I am a little concerned that we are going thru a re-building period but that's what happens in sports. Winning it all a few years ago after coming so close since '92 and being in the top 2 or 3 teams over that period makes the feeling that we may struggle a bit the next few years a TON more torreable. Cowher was what he was. A good coach/great motivator. Made huge mistakes over his career and kicking that field goal against the Pats in 2004 AFCC game was pathetic but he did what he had to do and got a ring so good for him. Can't wait to kick his ass when he is the Brown/Redskin/Panther coach soon.

As long as Ben stays healthy I am thrilled to have him as my QB for the next 8-10 years. I can see him carving out a Jim Plunkett type career meaning he will have gotten a few rings or more while at the same time being one of the better QB's in the NFL over that time with some Pro Bowls here and there.

Tomlin I think will be a great coach. How could he not. Learned under Dungy who learned under Knoll. Should be exciting to see what he and Lebeau have cooked up as they mix Tomlin's 4-3 strategies with the Godfather of the Zone Blitz. Watch out for Kiesel. Could be the next Adalius Thomas type.

My prediction for this year is a 3 headed war as usual for the division. Could easily be something where all 3 teams are between 8-10 wins. I do love the Steelers beginning schedule. No reason we should not be 5-0 with Seattle coming to town.

And regarding my earlier post about Henry. I am biased I admit because I am a Mountaineer fan and always want them to do well. He is a freak. Definatly better than TJ Whosyourmamma and pretty much a dead heat between him and Johnson in my book.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

i just wanna say this for the first time, bammorris your the coolest Steeler fan man
your welcome here anytime, just not after we lose, or someone will lynch you
glad you like the site, it is the best site on the net

[frankie martin]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='501973' date='Jun 18 2007, 09:07 PM']But you DO need another playmaker at WR to compliment Ward, and I just don't see Holmes or Nate bailing out Jen like Johnson and co. do for Palmer.[/quote]
i think Santonio can be a solid #2.....

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='501716' date='Jun 18 2007, 10:38 AM']Im still laughing at this comment.

Kimo and Santonio had ALOT more to do with that than Ben did.

I would even go so far as to say our kicking game snafu in the denver game last year had more to do with that then Ben did.[/quote]

C'mon Jaime. Who threw Holmes the ball? You dont want us to say that Palmer's success is only due to his receivers, do us the same courtesy.

By the way, I havent logged in here for quite a while....and this same argument is still here. What is it going to take to end it?

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='502569' date='Jun 20 2007, 01:48 PM']C'mon Jaime. Who threw Holmes the ball? You dont want us to say that Palmer's success is only due to his receivers, do us the same courtesy.

By the way, I havent logged in here for quite a while....and this same argument is still here. What is it going to take to end it?[/quote]


The majority of NFL QBs can throw a short slant pass. (And if not they arent starting and probally arent backups either)

[oftt4]

[quote name='JC' post='501723' date='Jun 18 2007, 10:53 AM']hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your talking about excuses? when you have the biggest bitcher in the NFL at QB! I think i had a temperature of 103...but i toughed it out once!

Oh my thumb is hurt...i can't throw the ball more then 20 yards.

I didn't play good this year because my off season was shortened..

Get off of it. Ben sucks. Hell Kyle Boller is probably better then jen.[/quote]

1) dont know what happened exactly, but i think he was told it was 103, so that is what he said...he probably misheard.

2) his thumb was broken dumbass. Can YOU throw a football well with a broken thumb? That is like us calling Palmer a pussy because he didnt finish the game when his knee was hurt...it is just stupid.

3) he never bitched about injuries last year, he specifically said he was not using that as a reason for his poor play. I personally dont see how getting in a motorcycle accident that almost killed him, followed by appendicitis, followed by a concussion wouldnt have an effect, but i guess I am just a homer.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='502572' date='Jun 20 2007, 01:53 PM']1) dont know what happened exactly, but i think he was told it was 103, so that is what he said...he probably misheard.

2) his thumb was broken dumbass. Can YOU throw a football well with a broken thumb? That is like us calling Palmer a pussy because he didnt finish the game when his knee was hurt...it is just stupid.

3) he never bitched about injuries last year, he specifically said he was not using that as a reason for his poor play. I personally dont see how getting in a motorcycle accident that almost killed him, followed by appendicitis, followed by a concussion wouldnt have an effect, but i guess I am just a homer.[/quote]


re #2: He shouldnt have started then. and i KNOW i heard the term "noodle knee" about 3 to 400 times. But then most of that was from Aries, Steelerman, Superman, and Dave and the collective intellegence of those four rival corky from life goes on.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='oftt4' post='502572' date='Jun 20 2007, 11:53 AM']1) dont know what happened exactly, but i think he was told it was 103, so that is what he said...he probably misheard.

2) his thumb was broken dumbass. Can YOU throw a football well with a broken thumb? That is like us calling Palmer a pussy because he didnt finish the game when his knee was hurt...it is just stupid.

3) he never bitched about injuries last year, he specifically said he was not using that as a reason for his poor play. I personally dont see how getting in a motorcycle accident that almost killed him, followed by appendicitis, followed by a concussion wouldnt have an effect, but i guess I am just a homer.[/quote]
I guess the reason I resent this issue is the way the media portrays Rothlisberger as some heroic, tragic figure in light of his injuries.
You know, the whole "Wow, simply unbelievable the way he's playing through that 103 degree fever"
"miraculous that he's on the field after that death-defying accident on his motorcycle"
Etcetera.
Injuries are part of the game that nobody likes when they happen to your team or to you, and are either held up as an excuse for poor play (The Bengals) or as a monumental obstacle that can be overcome (Rothlisberger) depending on who's doing the telling.
And honestly, in 2005 it seemed like there was always [i]something[/i] with him to the point where it was ridiculous.
Players play hurt all the time, I guess when you're being portrayed as the next Terry Bradshaw that every nose-hair pluck is hyper examined in the pregame show, while your best offensive lineman is playing with a torn labrum that nobody knows about or talks about.

[JC]

[quote name='oftt4' post='502572' date='Jun 20 2007, 01:53 PM']1) dont know what happened exactly, but i think he was told it was 103, so that is what he said...he probably misheard.

2) his thumb was broken dumbass. Can YOU throw a football well with a broken thumb? That is like us calling Palmer a pussy because he didnt finish the game when his knee was hurt...it is just stupid.

3) he never bitched about injuries last year, he specifically said he was not using that as a reason for his poor play. I personally dont see how getting in a motorcycle accident that almost killed him, followed by appendicitis, followed by a concussion wouldnt have an effect, but i guess I am just a homer.[/quote]

Uh oh...tough guy here. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Ben is a pussy and a very mediocre Quarterback. The motherfucker couldn't hold Carson's jock.

And no one is playing football with a 103 temperature. Your not moving very much if you have a 103 temperature.

[Brew Crew Grrl]

Mannn... you guys had a incredibly entertaining argument thread going and then you go and get all lovey dovey with bammorris Why don't y'all just go and make out in the corner or something

And now to add to this thread, I shall give you my impersonation of Ben...

[oftt4]

[quote name='JC' post='502588' date='Jun 20 2007, 02:22 PM']Uh oh...tough guy here. [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

Ben is a pussy and a very mediocre Quarterback. The motherfucker couldn't hold Carson's jock.

And no one is playing football with a 103 temperature. Your not moving very much if you have a 103 temperature.[/quote]

Opinions are like assholes...

I know 103 is insanely high, I dont argue that. It was 100.3, he misheard, or misspoke, it really doesnt matter. I personally wouldnt have been playing with a 100.3 fever.

Even you guys have to admit that he had a pretty rough year injury-wise.

That said, I am not going to resort to calling Palmer names. I respect him as a player and it is pretty childish.

I will just take Ben's 29-11 regular season record, 5-1 playoff record, and Superbowl win and be happy with it.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='503141' date='Jun 22 2007, 09:29 AM']Opinions are like assholes...

I know 103 is insanely high, I dont argue that. It was 100.3, he misheard, or misspoke, it really doesnt matter. I personally wouldnt have been playing with a 100.3 fever.

Even you guys have to admit that he had a pretty rough year injury-wise.

That said, I am not going to resort to calling Palmer names. I respect him as a player and it is pretty childish.

I will just take Ben's 29-11 regular season record, 5-1 playoff record, and Superbowl win and be happy with it.[/quote]


Then he shouldnt have played, Batch won games for you when he was in. Also I dont blame his injury, I blame his # of passing attempts going up. If hes going to throw more this year it will be interesting to see if I am right.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503154' date='Jun 22 2007, 10:51 AM']Then he shouldnt have played, Batch won games for you when he was in. Also I dont blame his injury, I blame his # of passing attempts going up. If hes going to throw more this year it will be interesting to see if I am right.[/quote]


Maybe we can have another friendly wager? This one would cover the whole season (we can still have our seperate head to head wagers).

How about this....assuming Ben throws about as much as he did last year (30/game) or more...I say his passer rating will go up by 15 points this year (90+).

And for what its worth...I dont think he should have played so early last year .

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='503157' date='Jun 22 2007, 11:05 AM']Maybe we can have another friendly wager? This one would cover the whole season (we can still have our seperate head to head wagers).

How about this....assuming Ben throws about as much as he did last year (30/game) or more...I say his passer rating will go up by 15 points this year (90+).

And for what its worth...I dont think he should have played so early last year .[/quote]


You keep missing my point. I dont think ben is horrible when the running game is clicking, if he has his running game clicking he can put up decent numbers. Its when his running game has been shut down is when he sucks.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503452' date='Jun 23 2007, 01:01 PM']You keep missing my point. I dont think ben is horrible when the running game is clicking, if he has his running game clicking he can put up decent numbers. Its when his running game has been shut down is when he sucks.[/quote]


I dont really follow your logic. You said he sucked last year because his pass attempts went up. Now it is because they didnt have a running game. Any QB has a hard time when the running game sucks, why is it that you only see that fault with Ben? Last year, your Bengals were 3-5 when they didnt rush for at least 100 yards. I guess Palmer cant carry a team without a running game either.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='503467' date='Jun 23 2007, 02:12 PM']I dont really follow your logic. You said he sucked last year because his pass attempts went up. Now it is because they didnt have a running game. Any QB has a hard time when the running game sucks, why is it that you only see that fault with Ben? Last year, your Bengals were 3-5 when they didnt rush for at least 100 yards. I guess Palmer cant carry a team without a running game either.[/quote]


When he has to pass more its because his running game isnt doing as well. When he has to pass more his passing attempts go up, not sure why thats hard to follow.
He has never had to single handly win games or done so with any consisitancy, Palmer has won games single handedly.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='503471' date='Jun 23 2007, 02:34 PM']When he has to pass more its because his running game isnt doing as well. When he has to pass more his passing attempts go up, not sure why thats hard to follow.
He has never had to single handly win games or done so with any consisitancy, Palmer has won games single handedly.[/quote]

I really dont want to get into this all over again. Just go watch the 2005 playoffs. The steelers running game was god awful. They averaged 2.7 yards per carry against Denver and Indi, our defense gave up over 300 yards, and gave up 17+ points in each game. How the hell do you think pissburgh won those games?

Well, I gotta go have a BBQ and get ready for the Ultimate Fighter Finale. Have a good day fellas.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='503487' date='Jun 23 2007, 03:03 PM']I really dont want to get into this all over again. Just go watch the 2005 playoffs. The steelers running game was god awful. They averaged 2.7 yards per carry against Denver and Indi, our defense gave up over 300 yards, and gave up 17+ points in each game. How the hell do you think pissburgh won those games?

Well, I gotta go have a BBQ and get ready for the Ultimate Fighter Finale. Have a good day fellas.[/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img]

You kill me. I have said repeatly that ben played well in those TWO games. Hell Mike Vick looked like steve young against both of our teams last year, that doesnt make him a good QB.

Its pretty simple, if the Bengals D has to play well on a consistant basis to be concidered good (because we played pretty well over a few games last year) then so does Ben.

Im simply playing by the rules your fans seem to have.