Just watched SiCKO

[Lawman]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='508888' date='Jul 9 2007, 11:35 AM']Thanks for your service Lawman... and isn't it also amazing that everyone loves to say what happened at GTMO, but they don't want to know what YOU saw?

Let's not confuse the issue with facts... it isn't sensational enough to incite the masses.[/quote]

[i].. and thank you for yours USNBENGAL; I will be joining you in the retirement ranks soon.

It was not my intent to hijack the thread, but merely to point out the obvious; Moore's hypocrisy.

I have been sitting on this for awhile, with all due respect to Actium[/i]; [url="http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009758"]Gitmo's Guerrilla Lawyers [/url]

[Guest bengalrick]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='508924' date='Jul 9 2007, 01:03 PM']Market forces ? You act like people would stop getting sick and injured.

The money that drives the market would still be there. Imagine if we did
away with the DEA, freed up all of the courts and prisons, freed up law enforcement
so they could focus on "real" crimes. There would be millions, maybe even billions
of dollars to spend on medical care, instead of on the "war on drugs".[/quote]

i didn't act like that.. if you think i did, you were mistaken... i am simply saying that we better be smart about what is and what is not paid for...

what do you think happens if ALL medicine is 100% free to US citizens? you know what happens? fewer newly discovered cures and medicines are created...

you are starting to act like you think the gov't does a good job at stuff... if we stopped enforcing drug laws, and focused on "real" crimes, "real" crimes would shoot out of this world b/c then you got a million crack heads breaking into houses and cars and stealing our shit to get their fix...

[quote]Yes I`ve met plenty of "crackheads". I have a cousin that is a herion addict[/quote]

then how in the hell could you think that legalizing that sort of drug will help a damn thing?

[quote]If all drugs were legalized, then the Government would have control some
sort of control over them. They could supply farmers with seeds and
tax the hell out of it. Right now, it doesn`t matter if you`re over 21
or 12, if you`ve got the money, you can get the drugs you want.[/quote]

some things you are forgetting... 1) the poppy plant (the majority of drugs comes from this) could not be grown in 99% of america (i am making up this number, but when is the last time you heard of poppy plants being grown in america)... in other words, you would have to prop up the country of columbia and literally protect their supplies so that our phening americans would have a nice share of their smack so no revolutions break out of it... 2) why not also say "If you can get the money, you can get high" ??? i mean, how many crack heads work their ass off to get their rocks? crime would shoot out this world, the rich would become either really rich and powerful or become falling stars and waste all their money on drugs... 3) the money that we would "save" would only be wasted trying to combat global warming anyways

[quote]There is an old saying . . . It`s not what you do to yourself that makes
you a "bad" person, it`s what you do to others that makes you a
"bad" person. If someone is doing drugs, they are hurting no one
but themself. If they commit a crime while on drugs, then arrest
them for that. But arresting them for just wanting to buy drugs or
because they`re on them shouldn`t be anymore of a crime than
someone buying alcohol or being drunk is.[/quote]

doing drugs makes you a bad person... not b/c they are evil or something, but b/c it takes a hold of you and makes you make decisions that you shouldn't make... you are not trustworthy... smoking weed normally doesn't do this... and old i know your a smart and senseable dude... you can plainly see the difference between an alcoholic, a pot head, and a drug addict...

[Guest BlackJesus]

[font="Arial Black"][size=6][b]The full film [color="#483D8B"]"Sicko"[/color] [/b][/size][/font]



[center][gVideo]5479371196999991466[/gVideo][/center]

[Jamie_B]

Also I'd bet that leagalization and taxing the hell out of it isnt going to do anything but create a black market for the cheaper product anyway, as people already dont have issue with breaking the law in doing it, they arent going to have issue with breaking the law in getting the cheaper non-federalized stuff either.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[color="#556B2F"][font="Arial Narrow"][size=4][b]Jump to 1:45:20 on the Google Player ... For Fidels close up [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif[/img] [/b][/size][/font][/color]


[center][img]http://www.cubapolidata.com/images/fidel.jpg[/img][/center]

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='USNBENGAL the Original' post='508892' date='Jul 9 2007, 11:49 AM']The man was THERE Homer... what more can you want of the real truth?

He never denied that torture might have taken place, but he didn't see it... which is NOT unusual. Torture is/was/will be a reality in ANY and EVERY war/conflict/skirmish where people try to kill one another.

Deal with it.[/quote]
I've been to GITMO, too, USN--back in 1975. Ask yourself this: why keep a prison there in the first place? Do you think it might have to do with how secure the location is, yet not being US soil? Do you think that no forethought into the Constitutional implications of the locale took place before stuffing folks down there? Just as there was no forethought into the choice of term, "enemy combatant" in lieu of P.O.W? How convenient to avoid the Geneva convention and other treaty obligations the US has entered into.

I first mentioned Geoff Miller on this board in May, 2006. How many of our troops have died since then? How closer are we to winning (or even resolving) this nightmare of a conflict?

What I demand from folks is some critical thinking. So, to claim that torture takes place in every conflict is a reasonable comment. What isn't reasonable is the fact that the [i]orders come from the top[/i]. Is this what your service stands for? [i]Isn't this what we ought be fighting against?[/i]

As a mere citizen-soldier who only devoted four years of my life to service, I think it incumbent upon me to rail against those who would defend, or make excuses for, or passively tolerate the transit of this nation from a fine republican beacon into a quasi-imperialist bully. I know it isn't as simple as that--there are many currents in the ocean--but nonetheless, I'm not going down without a fight.

As for Moore--so what if he makes a few bucks? I didn't know that reaping some reward for one's effort was merely a right-wing thing. If he's a hypocrite, then how? Because he still has some feeling for those who are not as advantaged as he is? Would that make him any better or worse than the thousands of executives who lie, cheat and steal from their fellow citizens?

In the meanwhile, our national economic resources get wasted on mountains of unworthy projects and wars at a critical time when we shouldn't be wasting much, when the social cost of providing health care to all citizens would be much less of a burden in comparison.

Folks don't realize just how close this economy is to tipping over. You think things are brutal now? If we don't change our patterns of behavior soon, we'll really reap what we sow.

[Lawman]

[quote]If he's a hypocrite, then how? [u]Because he still has some feeling for those who are not as advantaged as he is[/u]?[/quote]

[i]My only question, did you make that statement with a straight face[/i]?

[color="#000080"]Michael Moore is a multi-millionaire filmmaker and author of several books. He was born on April 23, 1954 in Davison, Michigan, a white, middle-class suburb ten miles east of Flint.

After eighth grade Moore enrolled in a Catholic seminary. “He admired the Berrigan brothers [radical anti-Vietnam War Catholic priests Daniel Berrigan and Philip Berrigan] and thought that the priesthood was the way to effect social change,” wrote The New Yorker’s Larissa MacFarquhar in February 2004. “This resolve lasted only through his first year, though, after the Detroit Tigers made it to the World Series for the first time in Moore’s life and the seminary wouldn’t allow him to watch the games.”

At age 18, Moore ran for his local city school board on a simple platform: “Fire the Principal.” He won, becoming America’s youngest elected city official.

Moore thereafter began studies at the University of Michigan but soon dropped out. He became a local hippie and hosted a Sunday morning radio show called “Radio Free Flint,” where he developed a reputation for staging whatever stunts and protests would attract media attention.

In 1976 Moore created a small leftist newspaper, the Flint Voice (later called the Michigan Voice), which he edited for ten years. This position gave him access to leftwing activists and fundraisers, and the opportunity to do occasional commentaries for the National Public Radio feature “All Things Considered.”

In 1986 Moore was hired as editor of the San Francisco-based socialist magazine Mother Jones. But his authoritarian arrogance quickly alienated most staff members, and within four months he was fired. Moore responded by suing Mother Jones for $2 million. He eventually pocketed $58,000 from the magazine's tax-exempt Foundation for National Progress; this became seed money for the production of his first film, Roger & Me, an assault on General Motors, its chief executive Roger Smith, and its recent worker layoffs in Flint. With assistance from movie critic Roger Ebert, Moore sold his documentary to Warner Brothers in 1989 for $3 million.

In 1995 Moore released Canadian Bacon, his only non-documentary production (aside from his music videos for groups such as Rage Against the Machine and R.E.M.). Its fictional plot centers on a President of the United States who boosts his popularity by engineering a war with Canada.

Moore also directed and hosted his own television show TV Nation, which aired in 1994 and 1995 before being cancelled due to its small audience.

In 2002 Moore’s anti-gun documentary Bowling for Columbine reached theaters. His depiction of America as a violent, gun-crazed culture was honored at the Cannes Film Festival in France and won the 2003 Academy Award for Documentary Feature. When it was later revealed that the film was replete with staged, concocted, or deceptively edited content, Moore defended his falsehoods by claiming that he was a mere entertainer. When Lou Dobbs of Cable News Network (CNN) pressed Moore about his inaccuracies, Moore dismissed Dobbs’ questions, saying: “You know, look, this is a book of political humor. ... How can there be inaccuracy in comedy?” To deflect another questioner, Moore declared that Roger & Me was not a documentary but “an entertaining movie, like Sophie’s Choice.”

In 2004 Moore released a broadside attack against President George W. Bush, Fahrenheit 9/11, which won the highest award at the Cannes Film Festival. It was later shown, however, that this film too was rife with lies and distortions.

[b]One of Moore’s most strongly held convictions is that, as he declared on the CNN program Crossfire in 2002, “Capitalism is a sin. This is an evil system.” In his 2003 book Dude, Where’s My Country? Moore wrote: “Horatio Alger must die! We’re addicted to this happy myth … that anyone can make it in America, and make it big. … Listen, friends, you have to face the truth: You are never going to be rich. … The system is rigged in favor of the few, and your name is not among them, not now and not ever.” [/b]

[i]The man deplores capitalism, but yet profits nicely from it. Theres your hypocrisy...[/i]

[b]Moore himself is one of these ultra-wealthy few, with a net worth exceeding $50 million[/b]. On November 1, 2005, World Net Daily reported that the anti-capitalist Moore -- who had proudly declared "I don’t own a single share of stock!" -- in fact owned tens of thousands of shares in U.S. stocks. Most notably, Moore owned more than 2,000 shares in Halliburton -- the gas and oil company he excoriated in his film Fahrenheit 9/11.

... and your [b]liar[/b]!!!

[b]Moore is a frequent speaker on college campuses, which pay dearly for his celebrity presence and speeches.[/b] [b]So , why does he not do this for free?[/b] The Federal Election Commission launched an investigation into Moore’s 2004 “Slacker Uprising Tour” of dozens of colleges and universities, most in swing states, during the closing days of that year’s presidential campaign. The filmmaker, who exhorted young voters to support Democratic candidate John Kerry over Republican incumbent George W. Bush, charged the schools or student organizations up to $30,000 per appearance. “The slacker motto,” Moore told one cheering crowd of college students, “is ‘Sleep till noon, drink beer, vote Kerry November 2.’” He added, “‘Pick nose, pick butt, pick Kerry,” and ended with an echo of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels from the Communist Manifesto: “Slackers of the world, unite!”

Moore dedicated his 2003 book Dude, Where’s My Country? to the late Rachel Corrie, an International Solidarity Movement activist who had been accidentally killed by an Israeli bulldozer she was attempting to impede as it destroyed tunnels used by Palestinian terrorists to smuggle weapons. “In their hearts [Israelis] know they are wrong,” wrote Moore “and they know they would be doing just what the Palestinians are doing if the sandal were on the other foot.”

Moore has been honored by the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and Muslim American Public Affairs Council. An affiliate of the Iran-linked terrorist group Hezbollah offered to help promote his film Fahrenheit 9/11 in the Middle East, especially after Moore had tried to prevent the movie from being shown in Israel.

Vis a vis the Iraq War, Moore’s affections are clearly offered to America’s adversaries: “The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation [i.e., against American, British and other coalition forces] are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The Enemy,” said Moore. “They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win.”

Reciprocating Moore’s support for anti-American and anti-Western terrorists, the Indonesian man convicted of the Bali terror bombings of 2002 had his lawyer read to the court excerpts of Moore’s Stupid White Men as justification for his hatred of the West. [/color]

[Lawman]

[quote]I've been to GITMO, too, USN--back in 1975. Ask yourself this: why keep a prison there in the first place? Do you think it might have to do with how secure the location is, yet not being US soil? Do you think that no forethought into the Constitutional implications of the locale took place before stuffing folks down there? Just as there was no forethought into the choice of term, "enemy combatant" in lieu of P.O.W? [u]How convenient to avoid the Geneva convention and other treaty obligations the US has entered into[/u].[/quote]

Myself 2006/2007

[b]America Should be Proud to Expand Guantanamo
By Deroy Murdock
Posted 07/06/2007 ET[/b]

[color="#000080"]President Bush and his appointees should yank their tails from between their legs, stand up, and fight for Guantanamo.

While suspected al-Qaeda associates deployed their Mercedes-Benz bombs in London last week, Congressional Democrats announced plans to halve Gitmo’s funding. June 29, as alleged Muslim terrorists prepared to ignite their Jeep Cherokee bomb the next day at Glasgow’s airport, the Supreme Court announced it would hear fresh Gitmo lawsuits.

While human rights groups holler for Guantanamo’s closure, the Administration whispers the same message.

“The president said he wants to close Guantanamo,” Defense Secretary Robert Gates told journalists hours before the Glasgow attack. “We want to close it as a detainee facility.”

This is pathetic, embarrassing, and potentially fatal.

Team Bush should stop cowering beneath their desks and return fire. Bush should start by uttering a simple sentence: “I am proud of Guantanamo.”

I am proud of Guantanamo, as every American should be.

First, Guantanamo keeps bloodthirsty terrorists surrounded by armed guards, ringed by barbed wire, and encircled by the shark-filled Caribbean. Securing crazed killers there prevents them from coming here.

Second, interrogating Gitmoites yields priceless intelligence. Al-Qaeda bigwig Abu Zubaydah kept mum until interrogators played him the Red Hot Chili Peppers -- at high volume. After they turned down the stereo, Zubaydah unmasked al-Qaeda agents Omar al-Faruq, Rahim al-Nashiri, and Ramzi bin al-Shibh.

Khalid Sheik Mohammed switched from taciturn to talkative after a few minutes of unpleasant but non-fatal waterboarding. With his guidance, counterterrorists nabbed accused Islamo-butchers Majid Khan, Bali bomber Hambali, Rusman “Gun Gun” Gunawan, Yazid Suffat, Jose “Dirty Bomber” Padilla, and Iyman Faris, who conspired to plunge the Brooklyn Bridge into the East River.

Third, Guantanamo’s conditions are beyond humane. Detainees enjoy soccer and volleyball, pray to Mecca five times daily, and eat Allah-ready meals, adding 10 pounds to the typical combatant’s physique. They also receive medical care that even Bush hater Michael Moore praises in his new movie, “SiCKO.”

President Bush constantly should explain why Guantanamo must remain open. In fact, he should announce its EXPANSION. Gitmo should become the global depository where foreign countries may harbor terror convicts and suspects. Call it [b]al-Qatraz[/b].

Keeping Muslim radicals under U.S. supervision will prevent the outrage whereby at least 157 convicted or accused Islamic terrorists have engineered at least 17 escapes from custody since September 11 in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, and four other countries. [u]These murderers collectively have killed at least 328 individuals and wounded 518 more.[/u]

In June, Jordanian Maath Braizat and Iraqi Saad Nuaimat slipped Jordan’s Juweida prison. Braizat was serving 10 years for endeavoring to kill Iraqi police trainees. Nuaimat was doing life for attempting to bomb Jordan’s Queen Alia International Airport.

“We have a vital, vested interest in making sure these figures cannot break free and continue their menacing, violent behavior,” says the Center for Security Policy’s Bryan Hill.

[u]“Reports indicate that at least 30 former Guantanamo detainees have taken part in anti-coalition militant activities after leaving U.S. detention,” says Pentagon spokesman Commander J.D. Gordon. “Some have subsequently been killed in combat in Afghanistan.”[/u]

After eight months in Guantanamo in 2002, for instance, Maulavi Abdul Ghaffar was freed. He soon became Taliban commander of Afghanistan’s Uruzgan and Helmand provinces. Government forces killed Ghaffar and two comrades on September 25, 2003 as they planned to strike Afghan cops.

So, what should America do with these detainees? The term “Texas hold ’em” comes to mind.

[b]“When you capture a lawful enemy combatant and hold them as a prisoner of war,” Pentagon detainee chief Alan Liotta recently said, “you are entitled, under the [Geneva Convention], to hold that individual until the end of the conflict.” Although these non-uniformed detainees fall outside the Convention, [u]America should detain them at least until the War on Terror concludes[/u].[/b]

And when does that happen? Ask Osama bin Laden and his pals when they plan to neutralize their guns, disable their car bombs, and stop taking flight lessons.

Closing Guantanamo buys President Bush nothing. American and global Leftists still will hate his guts, and enemy Islamofascists still will want him and his 300 million constituents dead. So, Bush might as well expand Guantanamo so he can padlock more Muslim fanatics -- even if liberals scream.

New York commentator Deroy Murdock is a columnist with the Scripps Howard News Service and a media fellow with the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace at Stanford University. [/color]


[i]Mr. Murdock, a New York-based commentator to HUMAN EVENTS, is a columnist with the Scripps Howard News Service and a media fellow with the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace at Stanford University.[/i]

[Guest BlackJesus]

[size=3][center][quote name='Lawman' post='509035' date='Jul 9 2007, 05:05 PM']Bush should start by uttering a simple sentence: [u]“I am proud of Guantanamo.”[/u][/quote][/size]





[size=4][i]" I am proud of my Gulags " [/i]

[b]~ Stalin [/b]







[i]"I am proud of my concentration camps" [/i]

[b]~ Hitler [/b]






[i]"I am proud of my nursery" [/i]

[b]~ Michael Jackson [/b][/center][/size]

[Lawman]

[i]For BJ, please read slowly and if there are any hard words, just raise your hand and ask politely.[/i]

[i]Actually, this is one of themostextensivedescripts I have come across.[/i]

[b]My Trip to Gitmo
By Janet Levy
FrontPageMagazine.com | April 2, 2007[/b]


[color="#000080"]The most infamous of the 380 remaining enemy combatants detained at the Joint Task Force-run Guantanamo Bay detention facility (JTF-GTMO) confessed to extensive terrorist activities, according to transcripts of his statements made during a recent hearing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, also known as KSM, admitted masterminding 9/11, planning the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, assisting shoe-bomber Richard Reid in his attempt against American Airlines Flight 63, perpetrating in 2002 the Paradise Hotel car bombing in Kenya and attacks at Paddy’s Bar in Bali, and beheading Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, as well as planning never-executed assassinations of two U.S. presidents and destruction of several major U.S. landmarks.

Some news commentators cast doubt on KSM’s confessions, citing his well-known penchant for braggadocio or arguing his comments were obtained after years of confinement and torture. Indeed, for many on Left, merely mentioning KSM’s detention at Gitmo is enough to conjure images of extensive and outrageous civil rights violations.

But that image is dramatically false as I recently discovered. As a media guest of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay, I toured the base and detention facilities. I saw not the repetitious and stock images of chain link fences and huddled detainees, replayed over and over again in the media, but an efficient, well-run facility that provides care that surpasses even that given our own troops. I was privileged to meet some of the dedicated men and women who serve under the motto “Honor Bound to Defend Freedom” and learned of the stresses and dangers they face daily. Indeed, it is only Gitmo’s past, unfair reputation that keeps it from being considered a model detention center.

My Gitmo trip began on a warm, balmy evening aboard a low-flying 19-seat prop jet. The noisy, three-hour trip from Fort Lauderdale sans air conditioning, restroom facilities and snacks on Air Sunshine, one of only two commuter airlines to Gitmo, was made slightly more bearable with earplugs. About two months prior, I had requested a media visit, submitting a biography, descriptions of my organizational affiliations, copies of recently published articles, an equipment list, photo and vital statistics. Once I received clearance and subjected myself to five vaccinations, I was ready to tour the much-maligned, detention facility on the 45-square-mile U.S. military base in southeast Cuba.

The base at Guantanamo Bay that houses al Qaeda and Taliban-affiliated enemy combatants is run by Joint Task Force Gitmo (JTF-GTMO) in concert with the local Naval Station staff. JTF- GTMO is a combined service operation involving all branches of military service – the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard. Including the active Naval Station, the base population comprises approximately 6,000 service members, dependents, contractors, foreign nationals, civil servants and Cuban exiles. JTF-GTMO oversees detention, intelligence gathering, medical services, staff support and port security. Naval Station personnel provide logistical support to ships and aircraft in the Caribbean, support U.S. drug interdiction activities and conduct migrant surge operations.

Established in 1903, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is the oldest overseas U.S. military base and the only one in a Communist country. Following the Spanish-American War, the Cuban government leased the area to the United States. That lease was later formalized in a treaty that can be terminated only by mutual consent of both countries. Guantanamo has served as a fuel and supply base, a drug interdiction operations center and a migrant assistance and processing facility for Haitian and Cuban refugees. Since 2001, it has been an enemy combatant detention center for the Global War on Terrorism.

On my tour, the only other media representative was a Pakistani who broadcasts in Urdu for the BBC. We were met at the tiny airport by a media relations officer, one of a five-member team that would squire us through Gitmo. A quick ferry ride from the airstrip and we were on our way to what appeared to be a replica of a small U.S. town with a Subway, Starbucks, McDonalds, Navy Exchange, schools, gyms and fields. After checking into our quarters – pleasant two-story, two-bedroom townhouses – we were briefed by an Army lieutenant on permissible reporting and images. Acceptable were empty spaces, including cells, bays, recreation areas and courtrooms. Tight shots of detainees that obscured identifying features were also O.K. Strictly verboten were shots of unoccupied guard towers, radar domes and antenna arrays, as well as photos that indicated locations of sensitive facilities and coastline areas, plus pictures of specific troops, security checkpoints, the airport and military aircraft. Any intelligence gained from witnessing interrogations or interactions with Cuban and Haitian migrant personnel were not to be reported. The BBC reporter and I were informed that our photos would be checked daily to ensure compliance with Gitmo security regulations.

I felt honored to visit Gitmo and looked forward to an early departure next morning. Close to 200 members of Congress and their staff have visited Gitmo, as well as 1,000 journalists from around the world on more than 400 media visits. I was anxious to see for myself how detainees lived and were treated.

The next day, our tour began at Camp 1, a secure facility with 7 x 8 mesh cells equipped with a toilet and metallic sink. We were told Camp 1 detainees wear tan uniforms connoting their higher level of compliance than detainees wearing maximum-security orange. We viewed the clothes and comfort items given Camp 1 inhabitants including a prayer mat, skullcap and Koran in the detainees’ native language, plus a rubberized finger toothbrush, toothpaste in a clear container, soap, shampoo, plastic flip flops, underwear, shorts and shirt. Cups are discretionary items since they can be used for fecal cocktail attacks, our guide said. Meals are delivered through a small opening in each cell door through which detainees periodically try to injure guards by closing the opening or using a sharp object, we were told. In nearby exercise yards with adjacent shower facilities, detainees are permitted to play soccer.

Our tour guide displayed plastic cones with the letter “P.” These are placed on the floor of each detention facility to signify 20 minutes of uninterrupted quiet time during the five times daily broadcast calls to prayer. Guards receive Muslim “sensitivity training” and handle Korans only with gloved hands, our guide said. We saw a Koran hanging inside a surgical mask from the wall of each cell, plus, on each bunk, a painted arrow pointing toward Mecca.

At our next stop, the Camp Library, we met the librarian who periodically visits Gitmo inhabitants. Each detainee selects one book weekly from a surprisingly broad selection in 19 languages that includes fiction, biographies, politics and religious books about Mohammed and the prophets. The BBC journalist audaciously asked if the political books espoused a pro-American viewpoint. Much to his apparent satisfaction, he was told that the library selections include multiple political points of view.

At Camp 4, the detention facility for the most compliant Gitmo residents, good behavior and cooperation with the interrogation process earns detainees admission to this communal living arrangement and its white uniforms. We toured dormitories where detainees eat, sleep and pray together. They can study various subjects and work on gardening projects in separate classrooms. We saw ample recreational areas for board games and team sports and were told that detainees occasionally are permitted to watch Arabic television.

By contrast, the maximum security facilities at Gitmo, two-story structures modeled after U.S. state-of-the-art prisons, house the most dangerous detainees. A raised glass-enclosed control center sits above the cells where touch screens monitor detainee movement and control the facilities, including even shower-water flow. We observed detainees exercising outdoors by themselves in mesh enclosures. In one high-security building, I heard a detainee praying loudly in Arabic and repeatedly invoking the “Yahoud,” or Jew, in Arabic. It was chilling. I knew he couldn’t be saying anything good, and I was thankful he was behind a locked, steel door.

We were informed that all Gitmo detainees were apprehended on Afghanistan battlefields where they were deemed to have intelligence value and then transported to Gitmo for detention and further interrogation. Further, we were told that all Gitmo detainees are categorized as “enemy combatants.” Media relations staff explained that enemy combatants are differentiated from prisoners of war (POWs) in that they are non-state actors who do not belong to a recognized military unit, do not wear a uniform, do not bear arms openly and do not follow accepted rules for the conduct of war, specifically the safeguarding of civilians. The laws of war dictate that POWs are required to provide only their name, rank and ID number and may not be subject to interrogation. Still, the Geneva Conventions that apply to prisoners of war have been followed with detainees since Gitmo began operations.

A lieutenant on the media tour explained that enemy combatants housed at Guantanamo include terrorist recruiters, trainers, facilitators, financiers, explosives makers, Bin Laden associates and avowed martyrs. He told us that among the detainees are medical doctors, lawyers, engineers, pilots and computer specialists. Many have provided critical information that has helped U.S. soldiers in combat and anti-terrorist operations. The information has included the organizational structure and geographic distribution of terrorist groups, terrorist recruitment and training processes, use of explosive devices and poisons, funding of terrorist operations and the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. We were told that approximately one-third of Gitmo detainees are currently undergoing interrogation and are believed to possess intelligence value.

During a meeting with two Gitmo guards, we learned of the month’s worth of training they received before their year’s service at Gitmo. The training emphasizes teamwork and interpersonal skill building and includes role-playing of likely, on-the-job scenarios. The soldiers talked about learning about the cultures of Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other countries from which detainees come. They also described long, stressful shifts filled with personal threats and assaults, during which they rigorously adhered to operating procedures, conducting themselves professionally and maintaining a belief in their mission and the fight against terrorism. We were told that a large number of detainees are dangerous, pose a threat and have said they intend to continue to wage jihad. A diagram of disturbances for the past year showed over 3,000 incidents of detainee misconduct, including threats to military personnel, possession of contraband, assaults with bodily fluids, and physical assaults.

Our tour guide explained how detainees communicate with family and learn about current events. They receive and send mail, over 40,000 pieces since 2002, and read weekly international news reports. He pointed out enclosed bulletin boards in recreational areas, displaying news stories in multiple languages. We were also told of visits every six weeks by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), a worldwide organization that monitors compliance with Geneva Conventions and assists with detainee-to-family communication.

On a behind-the-scenes tour of the commissary led by the head of food services, we were shown ample stores of a wide variety of food, including fresh fruit and vegetables. The area where the halal meat for detainees was stored was separate from the non-halal meat served to troops. Our tour guide told us that detainees receive the same food as Gitmo troops, but with more meal choices and a menu that changes more frequently. The six menu choices for detainees were displayed on a kitchen counter, and we were encouraged to sample the selections. Our guide mentioned that meal schedules and content are modified for Islamic holy periods such as Ramadan. The food was excellent. It was easy to see how detainees had gained an average of 18 pounds each during their detention.

Our next stop was the Gitmo Detention Hospital, a 20-bed, full-service modern medical facility with an outpatient clinic, two operating tables and a dental clinic. Five physicians, 20 nurses, a psychologist and a psychiatrist staff it. Interpreters in five languages assist with communication.

A psychologist led our tour of the modern, spotless medical facilities. We were told that detainees receive the same health care as base soldiers and their families and that the hospital logs 12,000 interactions with detainees per year, dispenses 400 medications per day, and performs 7,000 dental procedures annually, including six-month cleanings. Our guide recounted that when Gitmo first opened wound treatment was the primary care provided. Now, treatment centers on sports injuries, backaches and neck aches. He added that approximately nine percent of detainees use mental health services, which include counseling.

Approximately a dozen detainees are on hunger strikes at Gitmo, which prompts increased medical care, the psychologist said. After nine meals are missed, a detainee is evaluated at the medical clinic, counseled by a psychologist and subject to regular blood work and vital sign and weight checks. When deemed necessary by the medical staff, life support measures, such as insertion of a feeding tube, are initiated. Hunger strikes confer elevated status on detainees amongst their peers, the psychologist said, and once inside the medical facility, hunger strikers willingly consume liquid supplements.

The tour included the opportunity to sit in on the unclassified segment of an administrative review performed by the Office of the Administrative Review of Detention of Enemy Combatants or OARDEC. We were briefed on the detainee review process and informed that all detainees undergo a review process that includes a one-time detainee status classification, the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT), and an annual evaluation before an Administrative Review Board (ARB). The CSRT is used to determine if a detainee should be classified as an enemy combatant. Each detainee, even Al Qaeda operatives who don’t qualify for this procedure, is offered assistance from a military officer to prepare and deliver pertinent information to three neutral, U.S. military officers. CSRT determinations are governed by the “preponderance of evidence” standard.

The ARB process, given to all enemy combatants not pending Military Commission prosecution, assesses if detainees should be released, transferred or detained further. The decision is based on assessment of their intelligence value and the threat they pose. The ARB process, unprecedented in the history of war at a time of ongoing hostilities, is not required by Geneva Conventions.

The ARB that we observed on our tour was convened to consider the status of an enemy combatant affiliated with two groups associated with al Qaeda. The detainee in question refused to attend his review meeting, a not uncommon occurrence, and the evidence of his enemy combatant status was presented by three military officers.

Our guides discussed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and that Gitmo detainees linked to al Qaeda will face military tribunals. We were informed that the purpose of the military commission is to ensure the protection of military personnel, as well as the accused, and to prevent the release of classified and sensitive information. Each Military Commission consists of a presiding officer, who must be a judge advocate, plus three neutral military officers. E ach detainee is provided a full and fair trial with the following provisions: presumption of innocence, proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, counsel provided at no charge, attorney-client privilege and the right to call and cross examine witnesses.

During our Gitmo tour, we heard about specific incidents, such as a planned attack, suicides and allegations of detainee abuse, that have occurred at the facility, despite the extreme precautions taken and the standardized procedures in place. We were told by one of the guards that in May 2006, a group of detainees in the minimum security, communal living section staged a suicide attempt to lure guards into the compound. When guards entered the cell block, they slipped on a floor covered with feces, urine and soap suds and were attacked with makeshift weapons. The guards regained control within six minutes using pepper spray, batons and shotguns with non-lethal rounds, without any reported injuries to detainees.

Also, in June 2006, three detainees with close ties to Middle East terrorist organizations hung themselves in their cells using sheets and clothing. The first detainees to die at the facility, they left suicide notes in Arabic. According to news reports, military officials described the suicides as attempts to gain attention and to manipulate world opinion. Rear Admiral Harry Harris, the prison commander, said at the time that the suicides were “not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetric warfare against us.”

“Detainees are held at JTF-Guantanamo because they are dangerous and continue to pose a threat to the U.S. and our allies,” General Bantz Craddock, head of the U.S. Southern Command, was quoted as saying at the time. “They have expressed a commitment to kill Americans and our friends if released. They are not common criminals, they are enemy combatants being detained because they have waged war against our nation and they continue to pose a threat.”

In a meeting with the Commander of JTF-GTMO, Rear Admiral Harry Harris, we were told that allegations of abusive treatment by Gitmo detainees were investigated by the FBI and detailed in the Schmidt Report, which concluded that over a three-year period “only three interrogation acts” were “in violation of interrogation techniques authorized by Army Field Manual 34-52 and DoD guidance.” The report “found no evidence of torture or inhumane treatment at JTF-GTMO.”


Interestingly, an 18-chapter Al Qaeda manual on waging jihad discovered by police in Manchester, England, which came to be known as the “Manchester document,” exhorts its operatives when in enemy custody to “insist on proving that torture was inflicted” and “to complain of mistreatment while in prison.”

At the time of the charges, Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expressed frustration with these tactics and said, “These detainees are trained to lie, they’re trained to say they were tortured, and the minute we release them or the minute they get a lawyer, very frequently they’ll go out and they will announce that they’ve been tortured.”

he lieutenant who was part of the Media Relations team conducting our tour, mentioned that in 2005, allegations were made by detainees that a U.S. serviceman flushed a Koran down the toilet. He compared the size of the Koran to the toilet opening to demonstrate that this was an impossibility. We were told that an extensive inquiry, including the review of over 30,000 documents and hard drives of both classified and unclassified materials, found no credible evidence of such an incident ever taking place. But the inquiry did uncover 15 incidents in which detainees mishandled the Koran, including using it as a pillow, tearing pages out and urinating on it.

Admiral Harris informed us that although the Geneva Conventions specify that enemy combatants may be warehoused and interrogated until “the cessation of active hostilities,” many Gitmo detainees have been transferred to other countries or released. Of the approximately 770 enemy combatants detained at Gitmo, about 390 have been set free or remanded to such countries as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Morocco, Russia, Britain and France.

In response to my question about released detainees returning to the fight Admiral Harris said that an estimated 30 former detainees, mainly from the upper echelon of terrorist groups, resumed terrorist activities as part of the Taliban or Al Qaeda. This despite signing pledges at the time of release to renounce violence. At least two former detainees are believed to have died fighting in Afghanistan and a third was captured during a raid of a terrorist training camp. One former Gitmo resident murdered a judge outside of a mosque in Afghanistan. A teenaged former detainee was recaptured after returning to fight with the Taliban. One Pakistani former detainee who carried a false Afghan identity card while at Gitmo returned to Pakistan as a Taliban commander.

Although Gitmo has been the site of espionage attempts by Muslim, U.S. military and civilian personnel, information on that was not provided during the tour. My additional research, once I returned home, revealed disturbing attempts to reveal classified information and compromise national security.

In 2003, Army Capt. James Yee, a Chinese-American Muslim convert since 1991 who served as a chaplain at Gitmo, was charged with espionage and pleaded guilty to transporting classified documents and lying to military investigators. To protect national security, charges against Yee were reduced to mishandling classified information and later dropped. According to a list obtained from terrorism expert Steven Emerson, Yee had ordered $26,000 worth of Arabic and English books, many of which espoused a radical Islamic ideology, for detainee use during his assignment to Gitmo.

Yee’s friend, Air Force translator and Syrian-born Muslim Ahmad al-Halabi pleaded guilty to transporting classified documents and lying to military investigators. A civilian interpreter, Ahmed Fathy Mehalba, who had attended an Army intelligence-training program in Arizona, was convicted of removing classified documents from Gitmo containing the names of Al Qaeda operatives mentioned during interrogations. Army Colonel Jack Farr, who formerly headed the prisoner interrogation unit at Gitmo, was charged with “wrongfully transporting classified material without the proper security container.”

When the tour was over and I boarded the ferry to the airport for my return to the States, I thought about how the military detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has been at the center of controversy since it began housing enemy combatants in 2002. From the very start, allegations of torture and inhumane treatment were raised by officials and members of the press who had never visited the facility. Even the United Nations and several countries, including Britain and Germany, called for its closure, claiming human rights violations sight unseen.

Yet, claims that Gitmo is inhumanely holding innocent people who are held indefinitely without legal recourse are patently false. Clearly, the facility houses dangerous enemy combatants who receive balanced meals, appropriate clothing and comfort items, good medical and dental care, generous recreational opportunities, yearly military board reviews, access to attorneys and visits from the Red Cross in a secure environment in strict accordance with Geneva Conventions.

Congressional Democrats who are demanding the closure of Gitmo and advocating that terrorists be held in mainland U.S. prisons are misguided. Ask former New York Metropolitan Correctional Center guard Louis Pepe, who was the unfortunate victim of an al Qaeda terrorist housed in a civilian prison. Pepe was blinded in one eye, partially paralyzed and has difficulty speaking as a result of a brutal one-hour attack with a sharpened comb purchased in the prison commissary.

Terrorists who have the will to decapitate and amputate, blow themselves up, fly planes into buildings, use women and children as human shields and shoot infants in the back are prepared to commit extreme acts of violence to escape confinement. Confining them to an offshore detainment facility in the middle of the ocean with a tyrannical dictator outside the gates is an ideal solution to a difficult problem.[/color]

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='508938' date='Jul 9 2007, 12:44 PM']i didn't act like that.. if you think i did, you were mistaken... i am simply saying that we better be smart about what is and what is not paid for...

what do you think happens if ALL medicine is 100% free to US citizens? you know what happens? fewer newly discovered cures and medicines are created...[/quote]


How do you know if fewer cures and medicines would be created ?

Hell most of the drugs that are illegal were once drugs people commonly took,
and were made illegal for Racists reasons.

[quote]you are starting to act like you think the gov't does a good job at stuff... if we stopped enforcing drug laws, and focused on "real" crimes, "real" crimes would shoot out of this world b/c then you got a million crack heads breaking into houses and cars and stealing our shit to get their fix...[/quote]

I love how you can predict the future.


I don`t see how you can say that real crimes would shoot out of this world,
when you would have all of your police force focused on those crimes.

You wouldn`t have a narcotic squad, court rooms over ran with drug "criminals",
and jail houses that can`t hold people that commit "real" crimes.

I also love how you think every "crack head" steals to get their fix . . .

[quote]then how in the hell could you think that legalizing that sort of drug will help a damn thing?[/quote]


Because we would have some control over it. Right now the only control
we have is calling people criminals and throwing them in jail AFTER
they`ve already did drugs and/or became addicts.


[quote]some things you are forgetting... 1) the poppy plant (the majority of drugs comes from this) could not be grown in 99% of america (i am making up this number, but when is the last time you heard of poppy plants being grown in america)... in other words, you would have to prop up the country of columbia and literally protect their supplies so that our phening americans would have a nice share of their smack so no revolutions break out of it...[/quote]


Wow. I guess you have never heard of hydroponics ? Read into it.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics[/url]

[quote]2) why not also say "If you can get the money, you can get high" ??? i mean, how many crack heads work their ass off to get their rocks? crime would shoot out this world, the rich would become either really rich and powerful or become falling stars and waste all their money on drugs...[/quote]


Actually, ever person I ever met that was a crackhead" had a job, and they worked everyday.

Do you always stereo type people ?

[quote]3) the money that we would "save" would only be wasted trying to combat global warming anyways [/quote]




[quote]doing drugs makes you a bad person... not b/c they are evil or something, but b/c it takes a hold of you and makes you make decisions that you shouldn't make... you are not trustworthy... smoking weed normally doesn't do this... and old i know your a smart and senseable dude... you can plainly see the difference between an alcoholic, a pot head, and a drug addict...[/quote]

I guess you do stereo type people.

I guess alcoholics and pot heads are "trustworthy" and always make "good" decisions ?
Hell I know some Christians that aren`t trustworthy and don`t make good decisions.
I know some people that do drugs and they work harder, and have better hearts
than some Christians I know. Don`t assume that because someone likes to get high
off of drugs other than pot or alcohol, that they are any worse than some people that don`t even do drugs.

Drugs don`t make people bad. And they don`t make people theives or assholes,
anymore than alcohol does. Believe me, I have done every drug there is. I have
never broke into anyone`s house or car. I have never stold a car, or anything to
get my "fix" . . .

[Actium]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='508978' date='Jul 9 2007, 02:11 PM']As a mere citizen-soldier who only devoted four years of my life to service, I think it incumbent upon me to rail against those who would defend, or make excuses for, or passively tolerate the transit of this nation from a fine republican beacon into a quasi-imperialist bully. I know it isn't as simple as that--there are many currents in the ocean--but nonetheless, I'm not going down without a fight.[/quote]

I'm just curious at what point we were a fine republican beacon and not a quasi-imperialist bully. Maybe for about 5 minutes after victory in the War for Independence. After that, there was a long period of expansion, culminating in Manifest Destiny. When we ran out of continent here, we went for elsewhere. Then it continued under other names and methods, such as nation-building in Western Europe and Japan.

[Guest bengalrick]

i'll be honest old... i like you man, but arguing you is like arguing w/ bj sometimes... seriously, do you have to fucking predict the future to know what legalizing heroine would do to the country? if you don't understand that, i have nothing more to add to this thread, and i'm tired of hijacking it... i'm libetarian too, but we need to change that in the ole doctorine, b/c it is the sole reason the libetarian party is a joke...

peace brother

[Guest oldschooler]

[quote name='bengalrick' post='509099' date='Jul 9 2007, 06:46 PM']i'll be honest old... i like you man, but arguing you is like arguing w/ bj sometimes... seriously, do you have to fucking predict the future to know what legalizing heroine would do to the country? if you don't understand that, i have nothing more to add to this thread, and i'm tired of hijacking it... i'm libetarian too, but we need to change that in the ole doctorine, b/c it is the sole reason the libetarian party is a joke...

peace brother[/quote]

Heroin was first cultivated in 3600 BC, and was legal in the U.S. up until 1914.
That was 3 years after Ronald Reagan was born, and 138 years after
this Nation was born. The World didn`t come to an end when it was
legal, and this Nation thrived . . .



Peace, pot, microdot and sweet twat . . .

[USN Bengal]

Homer_Rice' date='Jul 9 2007, 03:11 PM' post='508978']
I've been to GITMO, too, USN--back in 1975. Ask yourself this: why keep a prison there in the first place? Do you think it might have to do with how secure the location is, yet not being US soil? Do you think that no forethought into the Constitutional implications of the locale took place before stuffing folks down there? Just as there was no forethought into the choice of term, "enemy combatant" in lieu of P.O.W? How convenient to avoid the Geneva convention and other treaty obligations the US has entered into.

[b]I served at Gitmo numerous times, from 1983 to 2003, and I ask you this;
The Constitution, UCMJ, and ALL American laws were in effect at Gitmo when I was there, just as they have been while the enemy combatants were/are there.

What makes you think they aren't now?

ACLU reports? The reports of the "12 innocent Kuwaiti bystanders" who went back to Iraq and tried to kill my fellow servicemen, but THANKFULLY got killed instead? I've read many reports as to what happened at Gitmo, and those that I know that have been there are the words that I believe. They did not see torture and did not perform it either. Some of them suspect that the "government observers" may have had different agendas, but they have nothing concrete to go on.[/b]


I first mentioned Geoff Miller on this board in May, 2006. How many of our troops have died since then? How closer are we to winning (or even resolving) this nightmare of a conflict?

What I demand from folks is some critical thinking. So, to claim that torture takes place in every conflict is a reasonable comment. What isn't reasonable is the fact that the [i]orders come from the top[/i]. Is this what your service stands for? [i]Isn't this what we ought be fighting against?[/i]

[b]I won't disagree with you on this point, as I believe that what you say is true. I would also like to point out that we ARE court martialing/imprisoning any of our people found to be guilty of performing these despicable deeds. We ALWAYS have, while hardly anyone else EVER has.
Is anyone else doing this?
Has anyone else done this to the people who tortured OUR troops?[/b]

As a mere citizen-soldier who only devoted four years of my life to service, I think it incumbent upon me to rail against those who would defend, or make excuses for, or passively tolerate the transit of this nation from a fine republican beacon into a quasi-imperialist bully. I know it isn't as simple as that--there are many currents in the ocean--but nonetheless, I'm not going down without a fight.

[b]I applaud you for that good sir, however I must also submit that which you already know... which/whose part are you believing and how much of what you believe do you know to be real?

Believe half of what you see, a quarter of what you hear and a tenth of what you read? [/b]


As for Moore--so what if he makes a few bucks? I didn't know that reaping some reward for one's effort was merely a right-wing thing. If he's a hypocrite, then how? Because he still has some feeling for those who are not as advantaged as he is? Would that make him any better or worse than the thousands of executives who lie, cheat and steal from their fellow citizens?

[b]Do you really think that this multi-millionaire really cares about those less fortunate? Maybe he does, but maybe I'm just too jaded to believe it.

Maybe he doesn't and you just want him to be that "Robin Hood" figure... I do believe that I equated Michael Moorer to the rich government hyocrites that he so roundly abhors... He IS one of them as far as I'm concerned[/b]

In the meanwhile, our national economic resources get wasted on mountains of unworthy projects and wars at a critical time when we shouldn't be wasting much, when the social cost of providing health care to all citizens would be much less of a burden in comparison.

Folks don't realize just how close this economy is to tipping over. You think things are brutal now? If we don't change our patterns of behavior soon, we'll really reap what we sow.

[b]In this last part, you have my total agreement, as I know what you say is true. [/b]

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='508941' date='Jul 9 2007, 01:59 PM'][font="Arial Black"][size=6][b]The full film [color="#483D8B"]"Sicko"[/color] [/b][/size][/font]
[center][gVideo]5479371196999991466[/gVideo][/center][/quote]








i can't wait to get home from work and watch it

[Rumble In the Jungle]

[quote name='Lawman' post='509060' date='Jul 9 2007, 05:53 PM'][i]For BJ, please read slowly and if there are any hard words, just raise your hand and ask politely.[/i]

[i]Actually, this is one of themostextensivedescripts I have come across.[/i]

[b]My Trip to Gitmo
By Janet Levy
FrontPageMagazine.com | April 2, 2007[/b]
[color="#000080"]The most infamous of the 380 remaining enemy combatants detained at the Joint Task Force-run Guantanamo Bay detention facility (JTF-GTMO) confessed to extensive terrorist activities, according to transcripts of his statements made during a recent hearing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, also known as KSM, admitted masterminding 9/11, planning the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, assisting shoe-bomber Richard Reid in his attempt against American Airlines Flight 63, perpetrating in 2002 the Paradise Hotel car bombing in Kenya and attacks at Paddy’s Bar in Bali, and beheading Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, as well as planning never-executed assassinations of two U.S. presidents and destruction of several major U.S. landmarks.

Some news commentators cast doubt on KSM’s confessions, citing his well-known penchant for braggadocio or arguing his comments were obtained after years of confinement and torture. Indeed, for many on Left, merely mentioning KSM’s detention at Gitmo is enough to conjure images of extensive and outrageous civil rights violations.

But that image is dramatically false as I recently discovered. As a media guest of the Joint Task Force at Guantanamo Bay, I toured the base and detention facilities. I saw not the repetitious and stock images of chain link fences and huddled detainees, replayed over and over again in the media, but an efficient, well-run facility that provides care that surpasses even that given our own troops. I was privileged to meet some of the dedicated men and women who serve under the motto “Honor Bound to Defend Freedom” and learned of the stresses and dangers they face daily. Indeed, it is only Gitmo’s past, unfair reputation that keeps it from being considered a model detention center.

My Gitmo trip began on a warm, balmy evening aboard a low-flying 19-seat prop jet. The noisy, three-hour trip from Fort Lauderdale sans air conditioning, restroom facilities and snacks on Air Sunshine, one of only two commuter airlines to Gitmo, was made slightly more bearable with earplugs. About two months prior, I had requested a media visit, submitting a biography, descriptions of my organizational affiliations, copies of recently published articles, an equipment list, photo and vital statistics. Once I received clearance and subjected myself to five vaccinations, I was ready to tour the much-maligned, detention facility on the 45-square-mile U.S. military base in southeast Cuba.

The base at Guantanamo Bay that houses al Qaeda and Taliban-affiliated enemy combatants is run by Joint Task Force Gitmo (JTF-GTMO) in concert with the local Naval Station staff. JTF- GTMO is a combined service operation involving all branches of military service – the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard. Including the active Naval Station, the base population comprises approximately 6,000 service members, dependents, contractors, foreign nationals, civil servants and Cuban exiles. JTF-GTMO oversees detention, intelligence gathering, medical services, staff support and port security. Naval Station personnel provide logistical support to ships and aircraft in the Caribbean, support U.S. drug interdiction activities and conduct migrant surge operations.

Established in 1903, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, is the oldest overseas U.S. military base and the only one in a Communist country. Following the Spanish-American War, the Cuban government leased the area to the United States. That lease was later formalized in a treaty that can be terminated only by mutual consent of both countries. Guantanamo has served as a fuel and supply base, a drug interdiction operations center and a migrant assistance and processing facility for Haitian and Cuban refugees. Since 2001, it has been an enemy combatant detention center for the Global War on Terrorism.

On my tour, the only other media representative was a Pakistani who broadcasts in Urdu for the BBC. We were met at the tiny airport by a media relations officer, one of a five-member team that would squire us through Gitmo. A quick ferry ride from the airstrip and we were on our way to what appeared to be a replica of a small U.S. town with a Subway, Starbucks, McDonalds, Navy Exchange, schools, gyms and fields. After checking into our quarters – pleasant two-story, two-bedroom townhouses – we were briefed by an Army lieutenant on permissible reporting and images. Acceptable were empty spaces, including cells, bays, recreation areas and courtrooms. Tight shots of detainees that obscured identifying features were also O.K. Strictly verboten were shots of unoccupied guard towers, radar domes and antenna arrays, as well as photos that indicated locations of sensitive facilities and coastline areas, plus pictures of specific troops, security checkpoints, the airport and military aircraft. Any intelligence gained from witnessing interrogations or interactions with Cuban and Haitian migrant personnel were not to be reported. The BBC reporter and I were informed that our photos would be checked daily to ensure compliance with Gitmo security regulations.

I felt honored to visit Gitmo and looked forward to an early departure next morning. Close to 200 members of Congress and their staff have visited Gitmo, as well as 1,000 journalists from around the world on more than 400 media visits. I was anxious to see for myself how detainees lived and were treated.

The next day, our tour began at Camp 1, a secure facility with 7 x 8 mesh cells equipped with a toilet and metallic sink. We were told Camp 1 detainees wear tan uniforms connoting their higher level of compliance than detainees wearing maximum-security orange. We viewed the clothes and comfort items given Camp 1 inhabitants including a prayer mat, skullcap and Koran in the detainees’ native language, plus a rubberized finger toothbrush, toothpaste in a clear container, soap, shampoo, plastic flip flops, underwear, shorts and shirt. Cups are discretionary items since they can be used for fecal cocktail attacks, our guide said. Meals are delivered through a small opening in each cell door through which detainees periodically try to injure guards by closing the opening or using a sharp object, we were told. In nearby exercise yards with adjacent shower facilities, detainees are permitted to play soccer.

Our tour guide displayed plastic cones with the letter “P.” These are placed on the floor of each detention facility to signify 20 minutes of uninterrupted quiet time during the five times daily broadcast calls to prayer. Guards receive Muslim “sensitivity training” and handle Korans only with gloved hands, our guide said. We saw a Koran hanging inside a surgical mask from the wall of each cell, plus, on each bunk, a painted arrow pointing toward Mecca.

At our next stop, the Camp Library, we met the librarian who periodically visits Gitmo inhabitants. Each detainee selects one book weekly from a surprisingly broad selection in 19 languages that includes fiction, biographies, politics and religious books about Mohammed and the prophets. The BBC journalist audaciously asked if the political books espoused a pro-American viewpoint. Much to his apparent satisfaction, he was told that the library selections include multiple political points of view.

At Camp 4, the detention facility for the most compliant Gitmo residents, good behavior and cooperation with the interrogation process earns detainees admission to this communal living arrangement and its white uniforms. We toured dormitories where detainees eat, sleep and pray together. They can study various subjects and work on gardening projects in separate classrooms. We saw ample recreational areas for board games and team sports and were told that detainees occasionally are permitted to watch Arabic television.

By contrast, the maximum security facilities at Gitmo, two-story structures modeled after U.S. state-of-the-art prisons, house the most dangerous detainees. A raised glass-enclosed control center sits above the cells where touch screens monitor detainee movement and control the facilities, including even shower-water flow. We observed detainees exercising outdoors by themselves in mesh enclosures. In one high-security building, I heard a detainee praying loudly in Arabic and repeatedly invoking the “Yahoud,” or Jew, in Arabic. It was chilling. I knew he couldn’t be saying anything good, and I was thankful he was behind a locked, steel door.

We were informed that all Gitmo detainees were apprehended on Afghanistan battlefields where they were deemed to have intelligence value and then transported to Gitmo for detention and further interrogation. Further, we were told that all Gitmo detainees are categorized as “enemy combatants.” Media relations staff explained that enemy combatants are differentiated from prisoners of war (POWs) in that they are non-state actors who do not belong to a recognized military unit, do not wear a uniform, do not bear arms openly and do not follow accepted rules for the conduct of war, specifically the safeguarding of civilians. The laws of war dictate that POWs are required to provide only their name, rank and ID number and may not be subject to interrogation. Still, the Geneva Conventions that apply to prisoners of war have been followed with detainees since Gitmo began operations.

A lieutenant on the media tour explained that enemy combatants housed at Guantanamo include terrorist recruiters, trainers, facilitators, financiers, explosives makers, Bin Laden associates and avowed martyrs. He told us that among the detainees are medical doctors, lawyers, engineers, pilots and computer specialists. Many have provided critical information that has helped U.S. soldiers in combat and anti-terrorist operations. The information has included the organizational structure and geographic distribution of terrorist groups, terrorist recruitment and training processes, use of explosive devices and poisons, funding of terrorist operations and the pursuit of weapons of mass destruction. We were told that approximately one-third of Gitmo detainees are currently undergoing interrogation and are believed to possess intelligence value.

During a meeting with two Gitmo guards, we learned of the month’s worth of training they received before their year’s service at Gitmo. The training emphasizes teamwork and interpersonal skill building and includes role-playing of likely, on-the-job scenarios. The soldiers talked about learning about the cultures of Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other countries from which detainees come. They also described long, stressful shifts filled with personal threats and assaults, during which they rigorously adhered to operating procedures, conducting themselves professionally and maintaining a belief in their mission and the fight against terrorism. We were told that a large number of detainees are dangerous, pose a threat and have said they intend to continue to wage jihad. A diagram of disturbances for the past year showed over 3,000 incidents of detainee misconduct, including threats to military personnel, possession of contraband, assaults with bodily fluids, and physical assaults.

Our tour guide explained how detainees communicate with family and learn about current events. They receive and send mail, over 40,000 pieces since 2002, and read weekly international news reports. He pointed out enclosed bulletin boards in recreational areas, displaying news stories in multiple languages. We were also told of visits every six weeks by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), a worldwide organization that monitors compliance with Geneva Conventions and assists with detainee-to-family communication.

On a behind-the-scenes tour of the commissary led by the head of food services, we were shown ample stores of a wide variety of food, including fresh fruit and vegetables. The area where the halal meat for detainees was stored was separate from the non-halal meat served to troops. Our tour guide told us that detainees receive the same food as Gitmo troops, but with more meal choices and a menu that changes more frequently. The six menu choices for detainees were displayed on a kitchen counter, and we were encouraged to sample the selections. Our guide mentioned that meal schedules and content are modified for Islamic holy periods such as Ramadan. The food was excellent. It was easy to see how detainees had gained an average of 18 pounds each during their detention.

Our next stop was the Gitmo Detention Hospital, a 20-bed, full-service modern medical facility with an outpatient clinic, two operating tables and a dental clinic. Five physicians, 20 nurses, a psychologist and a psychiatrist staff it. Interpreters in five languages assist with communication.

A psychologist led our tour of the modern, spotless medical facilities. We were told that detainees receive the same health care as base soldiers and their families and that the hospital logs 12,000 interactions with detainees per year, dispenses 400 medications per day, and performs 7,000 dental procedures annually, including six-month cleanings. Our guide recounted that when Gitmo first opened wound treatment was the primary care provided. Now, treatment centers on sports injuries, backaches and neck aches. He added that approximately nine percent of detainees use mental health services, which include counseling.

Approximately a dozen detainees are on hunger strikes at Gitmo, which prompts increased medical care, the psychologist said. After nine meals are missed, a detainee is evaluated at the medical clinic, counseled by a psychologist and subject to regular blood work and vital sign and weight checks. When deemed necessary by the medical staff, life support measures, such as insertion of a feeding tube, are initiated. Hunger strikes confer elevated status on detainees amongst their peers, the psychologist said, and once inside the medical facility, hunger strikers willingly consume liquid supplements.

The tour included the opportunity to sit in on the unclassified segment of an administrative review performed by the Office of the Administrative Review of Detention of Enemy Combatants or OARDEC. We were briefed on the detainee review process and informed that all detainees undergo a review process that includes a one-time detainee status classification, the Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT), and an annual evaluation before an Administrative Review Board (ARB). The CSRT is used to determine if a detainee should be classified as an enemy combatant. Each detainee, even Al Qaeda operatives who don’t qualify for this procedure, is offered assistance from a military officer to prepare and deliver pertinent information to three neutral, U.S. military officers. CSRT determinations are governed by the “preponderance of evidence” standard.

The ARB process, given to all enemy combatants not pending Military Commission prosecution, assesses if detainees should be released, transferred or detained further. The decision is based on assessment of their intelligence value and the threat they pose. The ARB process, unprecedented in the history of war at a time of ongoing hostilities, is not required by Geneva Conventions.

The ARB that we observed on our tour was convened to consider the status of an enemy combatant affiliated with two groups associated with al Qaeda. The detainee in question refused to attend his review meeting, a not uncommon occurrence, and the evidence of his enemy combatant status was presented by three military officers.

Our guides discussed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and that Gitmo detainees linked to al Qaeda will face military tribunals. We were informed that the purpose of the military commission is to ensure the protection of military personnel, as well as the accused, and to prevent the release of classified and sensitive information. Each Military Commission consists of a presiding officer, who must be a judge advocate, plus three neutral military officers. E ach detainee is provided a full and fair trial with the following provisions: presumption of innocence, proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, counsel provided at no charge, attorney-client privilege and the right to call and cross examine witnesses.

During our Gitmo tour, we heard about specific incidents, such as a planned attack, suicides and allegations of detainee abuse, that have occurred at the facility, despite the extreme precautions taken and the standardized procedures in place. We were told by one of the guards that in May 2006, a group of detainees in the minimum security, communal living section staged a suicide attempt to lure guards into the compound. When guards entered the cell block, they slipped on a floor covered with feces, urine and soap suds and were attacked with makeshift weapons. The guards regained control within six minutes using pepper spray, batons and shotguns with non-lethal rounds, without any reported injuries to detainees.

Also, in June 2006, three detainees with close ties to Middle East terrorist organizations hung themselves in their cells using sheets and clothing. The first detainees to die at the facility, they left suicide notes in Arabic. According to news reports, military officials described the suicides as attempts to gain attention and to manipulate world opinion. Rear Admiral Harry Harris, the prison commander, said at the time that the suicides were “not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetric warfare against us.”

“Detainees are held at JTF-Guantanamo because they are dangerous and continue to pose a threat to the U.S. and our allies,” General Bantz Craddock, head of the U.S. Southern Command, was quoted as saying at the time. “They have expressed a commitment to kill Americans and our friends if released. They are not common criminals, they are enemy combatants being detained because they have waged war against our nation and they continue to pose a threat.”

In a meeting with the Commander of JTF-GTMO, Rear Admiral Harry Harris, we were told that allegations of abusive treatment by Gitmo detainees were investigated by the FBI and detailed in the Schmidt Report, which concluded that over a three-year period “only three interrogation acts” were “in violation of interrogation techniques authorized by Army Field Manual 34-52 and DoD guidance.” The report “found no evidence of torture or inhumane treatment at JTF-GTMO.”


Interestingly, an 18-chapter Al Qaeda manual on waging jihad discovered by police in Manchester, England, which came to be known as the “Manchester document,” exhorts its operatives when in enemy custody to “insist on proving that torture was inflicted” and “to complain of mistreatment while in prison.”

At the time of the charges, Former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expressed frustration with these tactics and said, “These detainees are trained to lie, they’re trained to say they were tortured, and the minute we release them or the minute they get a lawyer, very frequently they’ll go out and they will announce that they’ve been tortured.”

he lieutenant who was part of the Media Relations team conducting our tour, mentioned that in 2005, allegations were made by detainees that a U.S. serviceman flushed a Koran down the toilet. He compared the size of the Koran to the toilet opening to demonstrate that this was an impossibility. We were told that an extensive inquiry, including the review of over 30,000 documents and hard drives of both classified and unclassified materials, found no credible evidence of such an incident ever taking place. But the inquiry did uncover 15 incidents in which detainees mishandled the Koran, including using it as a pillow, tearing pages out and urinating on it.

Admiral Harris informed us that although the Geneva Conventions specify that enemy combatants may be warehoused and interrogated until “the cessation of active hostilities,” many Gitmo detainees have been transferred to other countries or released. Of the approximately 770 enemy combatants detained at Gitmo, about 390 have been set free or remanded to such countries as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Morocco, Russia, Britain and France.

In response to my question about released detainees returning to the fight Admiral Harris said that an estimated 30 former detainees, mainly from the upper echelon of terrorist groups, resumed terrorist activities as part of the Taliban or Al Qaeda. This despite signing pledges at the time of release to renounce violence. At least two former detainees are believed to have died fighting in Afghanistan and a third was captured during a raid of a terrorist training camp. One former Gitmo resident murdered a judge outside of a mosque in Afghanistan. A teenaged former detainee was recaptured after returning to fight with the Taliban. One Pakistani former detainee who carried a false Afghan identity card while at Gitmo returned to Pakistan as a Taliban commander.

Although Gitmo has been the site of espionage attempts by Muslim, U.S. military and civilian personnel, information on that was not provided during the tour. My additional research, once I returned home, revealed disturbing attempts to reveal classified information and compromise national security.

In 2003, Army Capt. James Yee, a Chinese-American Muslim convert since 1991 who served as a chaplain at Gitmo, was charged with espionage and pleaded guilty to transporting classified documents and lying to military investigators. To protect national security, charges against Yee were reduced to mishandling classified information and later dropped. According to a list obtained from terrorism expert Steven Emerson, Yee had ordered $26,000 worth of Arabic and English books, many of which espoused a radical Islamic ideology, for detainee use during his assignment to Gitmo.

Yee’s friend, Air Force translator and Syrian-born Muslim Ahmad al-Halabi pleaded guilty to transporting classified documents and lying to military investigators. A civilian interpreter, Ahmed Fathy Mehalba, who had attended an Army intelligence-training program in Arizona, was convicted of removing classified documents from Gitmo containing the names of Al Qaeda operatives mentioned during interrogations. Army Colonel Jack Farr, who formerly headed the prisoner interrogation unit at Gitmo, was charged with “wrongfully transporting classified material without the proper security container.”

When the tour was over and I boarded the ferry to the airport for my return to the States, I thought about how the military detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, has been at the center of controversy since it began housing enemy combatants in 2002. From the very start, allegations of torture and inhumane treatment were raised by officials and members of the press who had never visited the facility. Even the United Nations and several countries, including Britain and Germany, called for its closure, claiming human rights violations sight unseen.

Yet, claims that Gitmo is inhumanely holding innocent people who are held indefinitely without legal recourse are patently false. Clearly, the facility houses dangerous enemy combatants who receive balanced meals, appropriate clothing and comfort items, good medical and dental care, generous recreational opportunities, yearly military board reviews, access to attorneys and visits from the Red Cross in a secure environment in strict accordance with Geneva Conventions.

Congressional Democrats who are demanding the closure of Gitmo and advocating that terrorists be held in mainland U.S. prisons are misguided. Ask former New York Metropolitan Correctional Center guard Louis Pepe, who was the unfortunate victim of an al Qaeda terrorist housed in a civilian prison. Pepe was blinded in one eye, partially paralyzed and has difficulty speaking as a result of a brutal one-hour attack with a sharpened comb purchased in the prison commissary.

Terrorists who have the will to decapitate and amputate, blow themselves up, fly planes into buildings, use women and children as human shields and shoot infants in the back are prepared to commit extreme acts of violence to escape confinement. Confining them to an offshore detainment facility in the middle of the ocean with a tyrannical dictator outside the gates is an ideal solution to a difficult problem.[/color][/quote]

i never wrote a school paper in my life that was this long, and you just put one up on a message board like it's nothing, lawman...you da man

[Rumble In the Jungle]

if i hooked up a USB from my computer to my TV, would i be able to watch the movie on the TV ?

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='oldschooler' post='509087' date='Jul 9 2007, 05:31 PM']How do you know if fewer cures and medicines would be created ?

Hell most of the drugs that are illegal were once drugs people commonly took,
and were made illegal for Racists reasons.
I love how you can predict the future.
I don`t see how you can say that real crimes would shoot out of this world,
when you would have all of your police force focused on those crimes.

You wouldn`t have a narcotic squad, court rooms over ran with drug "criminals",
and jail houses that can`t hold people that commit "real" crimes.

I also love how you think every "crack head" steals to get their fix . . .
Because we would have some control over it. Right now the only control
we have is calling people criminals and throwing them in jail AFTER
they`ve already did drugs and/or became addicts.
Wow. I guess you have never heard of hydroponics ? Read into it.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics[/url]
Actually, ever person I ever met that was a crackhead" had a job, and they worked everyday.

Do you always stereo type people ?

I guess you do stereo type people.

I guess alcoholics and pot heads are "trustworthy" and always make "good" decisions ?
Hell I know some Christians that aren`t trustworthy and don`t make good decisions.
I know some people that do drugs and they work harder, and have better hearts
than some Christians I know. Don`t assume that because someone likes to get high
off of drugs other than pot or alcohol, that they are any worse than some people that don`t even do drugs.

Drugs don`t make people bad. And they don`t make people theives or assholes,
anymore than alcohol does. Believe me, I have done every drug there is. I have
never broke into anyone`s house or car. I have never stold a car, or anything to
get my "fix" . . .[/quote]
Are you seriously implying that crackheads are better or even EQUAL workers to those that refrain from hard drugs (well, the addictive ones, anyway....you had me at microdot and twat... )?
I appreciate your argument about alcoholics to a degree...I am likely a functioning one of those who keeps promises and responsibilities to family, job and country.
I NEVER met a crackhead that was any of those things after a few months of hard use, ditto for heroin addicts.
I am for the legalization of marijuana, with the govt profits of taxing/selling going to stamping out cocaine, heroin and such FOREVER.
There really aren't productive serious addicts to those drugs. They may be good people at heart, but when smoking crack or shooting dirt becomes your primary focus in life once you're deeply addicted, then I would watch my wallet.
And this isn't just because it's coming from a former addict, because it is, but because IT'S TRUE.

[Jamie_B]

[center][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/shadowhound/tyrone.jpg[/img]

[size=6]It gives me wings![/size][/center]

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Lawman' post='509035' date='Jul 9 2007, 05:05 PM']Myself 2006/2007

[b]America Should be Proud to Expand Guantanamo
By Deroy Murdock
... .[/quote]
Wow! Just wow. Spoken like a true Christofascist.

[Homer_Rice]

[quote name='Actium' post='509092' date='Jul 9 2007, 07:40 PM']I'm just curious at what point we were a fine republican beacon and not a quasi-imperialist bully. Maybe for about 5 minutes after victory in the War for Independence. After that, there was a long period of expansion, culminating in Manifest Destiny. When we ran out of continent here, we went for elsewhere. Then it continued under other names and methods, such as nation-building in Western Europe and Japan.[/quote]

That's a pretty cynical way to look at our history.

[Actium]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='509224' date='Jul 9 2007, 10:41 PM']That's a pretty cynical way to look at our history.[/quote]

maybe. But I'm genuinely curious as to when you think we lost our way. I don't believe we ever really had it--it's just that people used to believe the myths we spun, and now they are becoming frayed and the veil is torn.

[Guest BlackJesus]

[quote name='Actium' post='509229' date='Jul 10 2007, 12:10 AM']maybe. But I'm genuinely curious as to when you think we lost our way. I don't believe we ever really had it--it's just that people used to believe the myths we spun, and now they are becoming frayed and the veil is torn.[/quote]


[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Sadly I think you may be right.

But then again I am an "American Hater" ... so welcome to the club. [/b][/size][/font]

[Lawman]

[quote name='Homer_Rice' post='509221' date='Jul 9 2007, 11:31 PM']Wow! Just wow. Spoken like a true Christofascist.[/quote]
[i]
Homer,

I have said this in the past, but is worth repeating here. The day we can close GTMO for the RIGHT reason will be a great day shared by all. That RIGHT reasons means that the entities that are out to kill Americans (OSAMA bin Laden wants 4 million dead in one attack alone) no longer exist. Unfortunately, I do not think this to be anytime soon.

[i]Admittingly, this piece was a bit extreme, but informative and presented an argument away from the middle of the field wear the grass has been worn an the marking indistinguishable.[/i]

For other's to understand the crux of our argument on habeaus corpus, I offer this [/i][url="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27096"]Affirming Our Constitution[/url]

To best of my understanding, in the afore mentioned piece:

[color="#000080"]The Supreme Court had ruled last year in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld that Congress - not the President alone – had the authority to establish the rules governing military tribunals. “Nothing prevents the President from returning to Congress to seek the authority he believes necessary,” according to Justice Breyer’s concurring opinion. The Supreme Court’s Hamdan decision focused on the separation of powers involving the relative authority of the two political branches – Congress and the President. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Congress’s prerogatives under its legislative war making powers. The issue was solved when Congress passed the Military Commissions Act signed by President Bush into law last October. The President now has the authority that the Supreme Court said he needed from Congress to proceed with his alien enemy combatant detention program. And Congress expressly intended this law to bar the federal courts from considering all pending and future habeas corpus petitions from alien detainees who are designated as unlawful enemy combatants. During wartime, that determination belongs to the President as commander-in-chief under guidelines established by Congress.

In short, Congress and the President are now on the same page - at least until the Democratic majority is able to repeal the law’s restrictions on habeas corpus petitions to the benefit of the terrorists, as some are trying to do.[/color]

[b]Summary[/b]:

[i]One of the things most Americans can readily agree on or actual bitch about is the ineffectiveness of our Government and mostly from the Left on how this Bush Administration (Executive Branch) cannot work with Congress (Legislative Branch). Here's the case were they have, yet not satisfied, they whine to the Supreme Court (Judicial Branch) in order to recieve a decision in their favor.

Where am I wrong? Actium?[/i]