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THE MOST ACCURATE AND REALISTIC COMMENTARY ABOUT MIKE VICK


ONYX

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[color="#FF0000"][b]I know it's the wrong forum, but you hoes need to need to read this.............[/b][/color]

[quote][b]Is the Mike Vick outrage out of proportion?[/b]

When exactly did Mike Vick turn into evil incarnate? Certainly, dogfighting is abhorrent, as are the allegations against Vick that include inhumanely killing his dogs that didn't fight well enough in trials. But has corporate America ever turned against a major star so quickly? Has the court of public opinion ever rendered a guilty verdict so rapidly?

Consider that on Tuesday, Rawlings joined Nike and Reebok in dumping Vick. Even more strikingly, Upper Deck said it was removing Vick trading cards from its NFL sets to be released in October. Basically, Upper Deck has declared him an NFL non-person, like in some Cold War-era Communist regime. Can't the card company at least wait until Vick is suspended by the league, never mind actually convicted of a crime, before pretending that Vick the player doesn't even exist?

Yes, Vick had already eroded some of his benefit of the doubt over the past year or so by flipping off his home fans and showing up at airport security with a souped-up water bottle, though he wasn't charged with anything in the latter case. Still, it seems that the charges of cruelty against man's best friend has stoked the outrage to a nearly unprecedented level.

It wasn't all that long ago, remember, that Kobe Bryant was charged with raping a woman. His sponsors (including Nike) stood by him and the NBA chose not to suspend him until after the justice system had its say. Bryant certainly faced hecklers and intense media scrutiny up until (and after) the charges were ultimately dropped because the accuser did not want to go through with a trial. But he was never buried as thoroughly as Vick is being buried right now.

The NFL, too, has clearly had its share of thugs well before the charges against Vick. This April the San Diego Union-Tribune compiled a list of 308 arrests and citations against NFL players, including some 50 arrests for domestic violence or violence against women just since 2000. Defensive end Leonard Little killed a woman while driving drunk in 1998, and six years later was arrested again for drunken driving, yet never received the public opprobrium that Vick has. (Little even signed a three-year extension with the Rams last winter.) None of those players was run out of the NFL and Madison Avenue on a rail like Vick has been the last few weeks.

Frankly, I don't feel too badly for Vick's "plight." If he's found guilty of the unsettling charges against him, he deserves whatever punishment he's allotted. If the Falcons want to sit him down until his trial is over so he can focus on his defense and the team can focus on football, that sounds reasonable. It doesn't really seem like the NFL's place to sit Vick down now, though Goodell obviously is trying to set a get-tough tone with the league that is generally laudable.

Still, it would be better if society's disgust meter reacted this strongly to violent crimes (or alleged crimes) against humans -- especially women -- as it evidently does to crimes against canines.[/quote]
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[i]Frankly, I don't feel too badly for Vick's "plight." If he's found guilty of the unsettling charges against him, he deserves whatever punishment he's allotted. If the Falcons want to sit him down until his trial is over so he can focus on his defense and the team can focus on football, that sounds reasonable. It doesn't really seem like the NFL's place to sit Vick down now, though Goodell obviously is trying to set a get-tough tone with the league that is generally laudable.[/i]

Frankly, the rest of the article can be discarded as hype because this boils it down for most people, I think...and the article fails to mention that guys like Little were afforded an entirely different set of rules under a different commisioner, so....yeah.
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sneaky...I assume from your post that you think Mike is being treated unfairly and is innocent until found otherwise.If so,I agree with your point.Let it play out.

However, what most people don't recognize is that the feds don't indict on a whim or for political purposes as in then Duke/Lacrosse case .If you've read the 19 page indictment,the feds lay out their case.They appear,until otherwise disproven,to have done their homework and have Mike by the short hairs.These guys are serious litigators who don't shoot blanks.They've tied him to dog fighting and its' ugliness through credit card purchases and phone records .

Furthermore,this indictment will probably be followed by another for gambling charges.IMO,Mike hasn't seen the in the initial indictment the end of his legal problems.Obviously,the NFL considers this to have even greater import than a dog fighting case if in fact it's true.
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[quote name='Patmo' post='520734' date='Aug 3 2007, 03:08 AM']sneaky...I assume from your post that you think Mike is being treated unfairly and is innocent until found otherwise.If so,I agree with your point.Let it play out.

However, what most people don't recognize is that the feds don't indict on a whim or for political purposes as in then Duke/Lacrosse case .If you've read the 19 page indictment,the feds lay out their case.They appear,until otherwise disproven,to have done their homework and have Mike by the short hairs.These guys are serious litigators who don't shoot blanks.They've tied him to dog fighting and its' ugliness through credit card purchases and phone records .

Furthermore,this indictment will probably be followed by another for gambling charges.IMO,Mike hasn't seen the in the initial indictment the end of his legal problems.Obviously,the NFL considers this to have even greater import than a dog fighting case if in fact it's true.[/quote]
I don't think :unsure: even sneaky doubts his guilt. It's just the contrast between the way he's being treated as opposed to Kobe and Little.

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[quote name='Patmo' post='520734' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:08 PM']sneaky...I assume from your post that you think Mike is being treated unfairly and is innocent until found otherwise.If so,I agree with your point.Let it play out.

However, what most people don't recognize is that the feds don't indict on a whim or for political purposes as in then Duke/Lacrosse case .If you've read the 19 page indictment,the feds lay out their case.They appear,until otherwise disproven,to have done their homework and have Mike by the short hairs.These guys are serious litigators who don't shoot blanks.They've tied him to dog fighting and its' ugliness through credit card purchases and phone records .

Furthermore,this indictment will probably be followed by another for gambling charges.IMO,Mike hasn't seen the in the initial indictment the end of his legal problems.Obviously,the NFL considers this to have even greater import than a dog fighting case if in fact it's true.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]It's not that I think that Vick is being unfairly treated, it's just the magnitude of the charges and
the magnitude of the backlash is what I find disproportionate considering what he is accused of.[/b][/color]
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Don Imus was fired, and he didn't even commit a crime.

The reason he lost his job is because the court of public opinion had spoken, and so his sponsers pulled out, which made him a liability.

The same can be said of Vick.

And I'm not losing any sleep over either of those bastards.
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[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='520737' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:15 PM']I don't think :unsure: even sneaky doubts his guilt. It's just the contrast between the way he's being treated as opposed to Kobe and Little.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]BINGO[/b][/color]

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[quote name='sneaky' post='520738' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:19 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]It's not that I think that Vick is being unfairly treated, it's just the magnitude of the charges and
the magnitude of the backlash is what I find disproportionate considering what he is accused of.[/b][/color][/quote]

You make a good case,sneaky.However,like Odell's situation,I suspect there's more to the story than what we've seen as I suggested in the gambling possibility.Keep in mind,that Little's problems were handled by Tagliabue while Goodell's in the position of cleaning up sins of the past and present.I think we'd all agree that under Goodell,Little would get a year suspension at the minimum.
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I don't blame the sponsers. Why stand by someone who can only hurt sales at this point. The difference between Vick and Little, is he obviously meant to do it. Yes, Little chose to drink and drive, but he like many others in this world felt he was okay to drive. It is unfortunate that he was not penalized by the league more, considering Odell's two year DUI, but he was held to the rules of the time. As for Kobe, how many of us believe that was rape over consensual sex? I personally don't, but I wasn't there so I can say for 100%. All I do know is that the accuser there had a lot more to gain the Feds.

It would be nice if innocent until proven guilty worked in the court of public opinion but it doesn't. Vick facing a 96% success ratio by the feds doesn't help either. It is good that at least one person of the media is killing him in the press, but that is a price he will pay for his choices.
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[quote name='sneaky' post='520741' date='Aug 3 2007, 03:23 AM'][color="#FF0000"][b]BINGO[/b][/color][/quote]
I feel NO pity for Vick at all. I've always been a hater as much as a homer, and this mofo has been on the wrong team from the get go. But it is odd to see how quickly folks are stepping back from him. I hadn't really looked at it from the angle of the article, but it makes a good point. But I think the phrase "federal charges" also increases the hype a bit. kinda like

misdemenor < felony < federal charges

It just sounds more daunting. After the Duke debacle, and Kenton County KY, we're used to asshole DAs going on a rampage. I think the fact that this went the other way, with local law seemingly not yet ready to file charges, but the Feds already on the move, makes the crime more sensational as well.
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[quote name='Patmo' post='520742' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:26 PM']You make a good case,sneaky.However,like Odell's situation,I suspect there's more to the story than what we've seen as I suggested in the gambling possibility.Keep in mind,that Little's problems were handled by Tagliabue while Goodell's in the position of cleaning up sins of the past and present.[b]I think we'd all agree that under Goodell,Little would get a year suspension at the minimum.[/b][/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Agreed. But where was the public court of opinion when Little killed a working class mother of
two because he was out drinking and driving? I dont recall the media hammering the nails in
his wrists back then. (when they should have)

It just seems to me that when the powers that be, whether it be the media or whatever, decides
to make someone a super villan, the masses come after that person with a mob mentality.

As far as the gambling aspect of the case, I never looked at it that way, Patmo. You may be on to
something. :mellow: [/b][/color]

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[quote name='WhoDeyUK' post='520737' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:15 PM']I don't think :unsure: [b]even sneaky [/b]doubts his guilt. It's just the contrast between the way he's being treated as opposed to Kobe and Little.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Hey !!!! :angry:

What does, "even sneaky" suppose to mean ? :contract: [/b]


:rant: [/color]

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[quote name='sneaky' post='520747' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:38 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Agreed. But where was the public court of opinion when Little killed a working class mother of
two because he was out drinking and driving. I dont recall the media hammering the nails in
his wrists back then. (when they should have)

It just seems to me that when the powers that be, whether it be the media or whatever, decides
to make someone a super villan, the masses come after that person with a mob mentality.

As far as the gambling aspect of the case, I never looked at it that way, Patmo. You may be on to
something. :mellow: [/b][/color][/quote]


One of the differences is that Vicks behavior (if true) was perpetual criminal behavior. Not a one time lapse of judgement (not that little wasn't probably a repeat offender).

He is also a much bigger name than Little. Vick is quite likely the biggest name in American sports.

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[quote name='Lucid' post='520754' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:49 PM']One of the differences is that Vicks behavior (if true) was perpetual criminal behavior. Not a one time lapse of judgement (not that little wasn't probably a repeat offender).

He is also a much bigger name than Little. [b] Vick is quite likely the biggest name in American sports.[/b][/quote]

I'm going to have to go with the Godsend Ben Roethlisberger on that one.

Geez - the guy sucks so bad it's not even cool to make fun of him anymore. :685:

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[quote name='Lucid' post='520754' date='Aug 2 2007, 10:49 PM']One of the differences is that Vicks behavior (if true) was perpetual criminal behavior. Not a one time lapse of judgement (not that little wasn't probably a repeat offender).

He is also a much bigger name than Little. Vick is quite likely the biggest name in American sports.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]See, thats the problem I have. Who cares if Little is not a bigger name that Vick? Little killed
a human being. But just because Vick has graced the cover of Madden and been in countless
ads and commercials, his brutal treatment and murder of dogs is a bigger deal.

Is it just me or does anybody else see the perversion in that?

BTW, Little is a repeat offender and eveyone knows that driving drunk is a
crime.

Little eventually received a big contract extention from the Rams while many think Vick's career
is over now.[/b][/color]
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[quote name='sneaky' post='520760' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:00 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]See, thats the problem I have. Who cares if Little is not a bigger name that Vick? Little killed
a human being. But just because Vick has graced the cover of Madden and been in countless
ads and commercials, his brutal treatment and murder of dogs is a bigger story.

Is it just me or does anybody else see the perversion in that?

BTW, Little is a repeat offender and not too long ago, and eveyone knows that driving drunk is a
crime.

Little eventually received a big contract extention from the Rams while many think Vick's career
is over now.[/b][/color][/quote]

Of course it's perverse.

Welcome to motherfucking planet earth!

:wave:

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[quote name='claptonrocks' post='520764' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:18 PM']Excuse me for asking but who wrote the article?????[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Oooops. Forgot to post the link.[/b][/color]


[url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/extramustard/10_spot/2007/08/is-mike-vick-outrage-out-of-proportion.html"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/...proportion.html[/url]
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why do people act like he was saving children and funding youth christian crusaides throughout the world before these measly federal indictments came along?

the guy gave half of georgia herpes under the alias RON MEXICO(meh-he-co). then flipped off some hackling fans on national TV. and now 5 years of federal surveillance lands him dickhole deep in the shits.


who cares, he isnt a very good qb, or person, phenomenal athlete is about it. its sad that he ranks higher on the RB charts than the QB ones.
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[quote name='GoBengals' post='520777' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:45 PM']why do people act like he was saving children and funding youth christian crusaides throughout the world before these measly federal indictments came along?

the guy gave half of georgia herpes under the alias RON MEXICO(meh-he-co). then flipped off some hackling fans on national TV. and now 5 years of federal surveillance lands him dickhole deep in the shits.
who cares, he isnt a very good qb, or person, phenomenal athlete is about it. its sad that he ranks higher on the RB charts than the QB ones.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"][b]Im not trying to make Vick a martyr, I am merely pointing out that there have been athletes just as
famous and maybe not so, that have done worse things than killing dogs and the media and the masses
have not shitted on them as much as they have shitted on Vick.

Does Vick deserve shit for what he did, ofcourse, but Kobe raped a chick, Leonard Little killed a chick,
and Ray Lewis was witness to a double homocide and lied about it.

I just see vast discrepancies in the way the public views things. That's all.[/b][/color]
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[quote name='ONYX' post='520786' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:54 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Im not trying to make Vick a martyr, I am merely pointing out that there have been athletes just as
famous and maybe not so, that have done worse things than killing dogs and the media and the masses
have not shitted on them as much as they have shitted on Vick.

Does Vick deserve shit for what he did, ofcourse, but Kobe raped a chick, Leonard Little killed a chick,
and Ray Lewis was witness to a double homocide and lied about it.

I just see vast discrepancies in the way the public views things. That's all.[/b][/color][/quote]


i beleive it was the infamous Creechonomicon who once stated, like two days ago, that none of this branding, sponsor, or merchandise shit has anything to do with nw nfl policy, vicks crime severity, or legal standings what so ever. its money, good business, and ethics. why would nike put with with angry groups of mothers peta groups, political groupns and so on over mike vick? they could give a fuck about a mike vick. cut ties, skip the drama and keep being a multi billion dollar company, and frankly with his herpes, fan flicking off and this, he is all but fucked as an NFL player who didnt do much as far as team success anyway, so its a godsent to these companies that he gave them a reason to drop his ass.

its not racial, political, criminal.. its "peace out bitch" good business.
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[quote name='sneaky' post='520786' date='Aug 2 2007, 11:54 PM'][color="#FF0000"][b]Im not trying to make Vick a martyr, I am merely pointing out that there have been athletes just as
famous and maybe not so, that have done worse things than killing dogs and the media and the masses
have not shitted on them as much as they have shitted on Vick.

Does Vick deserve shit for what he did, ofcourse, but Kobe raped a chick, Leonard Little killed a chick,
and Ray Lewis was witness to a double homocide and lied about it.

I just see vast discrepancies in the way the public views things. That's all.[/b][/color][/quote]

FWIW, in the minds of many, messing with "pets" is worse than many other crimes. You're right, sneaky, there's a problem with proportionality here, but that's the key psychological dynamic involved here. And that's why he'll never play another down in the NFL again.

Unless, of course, he becomes a Vegansexual. :ninja:

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Pets, people, steroids, drugs, blah blah blah. A dirtbag is a dirtbag. I don't need to read an article to sort out proportionality. Neither do most of the people on forums. Exaggerations run amuck in sports in general. People say some terrific athlete sucks ass because he couldn't break a tackle for a first down. Others say someone should get prison raped for being on a certain team. Whatever. If Vick's guilty, he's a douchebag who needs a couple years of quiet time in jail to think about why he's a douchebag. If he's innocent, he's an overrated quarterback who's probably a bit of an ass.
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[quote name='mongo' post='520828' date='Aug 3 2007, 12:44 AM']Pets, people, steroids, drugs, blah blah blah. A dirtbag is a dirtbag. I don't need to read an article to sort out proportionality. Neither do most of the people on forums. [b][i]Exaggerations run amuck[/i][/b] in sports in general. People say some terrific athlete sucks ass because he couldn't break a tackle for a first down. Others say someone should get prison raped for being on a certain team. Whatever. If Vick's guilty, he's a douchebag who needs a couple years of quiet time in jail to think about why he's a douchebag. If he's innocent, he's an overrated quarterback who's [i][b]probably[/b][/i] a bit of an ass.[/quote]


[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img]
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