Ben Stein hates Darwin

[xamination]

[quote name='Lawman' post='533074' date='Aug 24 2007, 07:19 PM'][/quote]
Tired, and don't want to look up verses at this hour - tomorrow though.

[xamination]

[quote name='xamination' post='533199' date='Aug 25 2007, 12:19 AM']Tired, and don't want to look up verses at this hour - tomorrow though.[/quote]
Ok, here's one -
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." -Mark 9:1(NIV)

Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book. -Revelation 22:7(NIV)

There are several more like this.

What you read here are words from Jesus - he talks about his second coming, his return to Earth. Jesus told the people around him that he would be coming soon, very soon, within the lifetimes of some of them. If these are to be taken literally, he meant he was coming in, say, the next 50 years. But after hundreds of generations, he has not come. We are forced then into a couple of reasons of why he has not fulfilled this promise.
1. He said this, but it was metaphorical - it should not be taken literally.
2. He did not say this, leaving the veracity of the whole Bible in question.
3. He said this, but was lying to his followers.
4. He said this, and meant it but was unable to - he is not omnipotent.
5. He said this, but he is not the Son of God.
What would you say is the best answer?

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='xamination' post='533401' date='Aug 25 2007, 04:16 PM']Ok, here's one -
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power." -Mark 9:1(NIV)

Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book. -Revelation 22:7(NIV)

There are several more like this.

What you read here are words from Jesus - he talks about his second coming, his return to Earth. Jesus told the people around him that he would be coming soon, very soon, within the lifetimes of some of them. If these are to be taken literally, he meant he was coming in, say, the next 50 years. But after hundreds of generations, he has not come. We are forced then into a couple of reasons of why he has not fulfilled this promise.
1. He said this, but it was metaphorical - it should not be taken literally.
2. He did not say this, leaving the veracity of the whole Bible in question.
[b]3. He said this, but was lying to his followers.[/b]
4. He said this, and meant it but was unable to - he is not omnipotent.
5. He said this, but he is not the Son of God.
What would you say is the best answer?[/quote]

I like this one.

[DontPushMe]

John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.

Psalms 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Exodus 35:2
For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

religion is funny

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='xamination' post='533194' date='Aug 24 2007, 10:15 PM']Ok, I'm back, I'm pissed as hell(we lost), and I'm tired. If I sound that I'm a little short, its because I am.

As for this thinking, I can't argue against it any more. Somebody else, please explain to him that just because we exist on a hospitable planet is not proof of some divine God.[/quote]
Don't patronize, it's not nice. And we live on FAR MORE than a hospitable planet...it is a PERFECT planet for life to flourish as we know it in all it's forms...
When the "coincedental nature" of our perfect alliance with our average star and uninhabitable fellow planets is as perfect as it is, I see divinity from that, and from the inexplicable nature of the triggering of star formation.
This is without even mentioning the sheer vastness of the Universe, the incalculable distances, the perfectness of it's ordered chaos...this inspires faith and wonderment in me.
That is all I need. I love science [i]and[/i] God. They are intertwined according to my belief. To each his own I guess.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='533461' date='Aug 25 2007, 07:38 PM']Don't patronize, it's not nice. And we live on FAR MORE than a hospitable planet...it is a PERFECT planet for life to flourish as we know it in all it's forms...
When the "coincedental nature" of our perfect alliance with our average star and uninhabitable fellow planets is as perfect as it is, I see divinity from that, and from the inexplicable nature of the triggering of star formation.
This is without even mentioning the sheer vastness of the Universe, the incalculable distances, the perfectness of it's ordered chaos...this inspires faith and wonderment in me.
That is all I need. I love science [i]and[/i] God. They are intertwined according to my belief. To each his own I guess.[/quote]

Things won't seem so perfect here once the sun expands and swallows our solar system!

Also, I agree that conditions on Earth are great for life because of things like the preponderance of liquid water here, considering water's many unique properties which make us possible. I will allow this to be a product of sheer statistics, however, given the number of planets in the universe. Likewise, I wouldn't go too far with claiming that Earth is perfectly suited to us - rather, we have become well-suited to conditions here.

I'd also like to note, in response to an earlier post regarding mutation rates...the atmosphere as it exists today has not always been as protective against UV radiation as it is now. Hell, the existence of oxygen in the atmosphere is a relatively recent phenomenon in itself! I'm not sure what the source's data were considering, but it goes without saying that mutation rates skyrocket in the presence of UV rays.

[CincyInDC]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='533461' date='Aug 25 2007, 07:38 PM']Don't patronize, [color="#FF0000"]it's[/color] not nice. And we live on FAR MORE than a hospitable planet...it is a PERFECT planet for life to flourish as we know it in all [color="#FF0000"]it's[/color] forms...[/quote]

For someone who is all over Jamie's shit for spelling, you should figure out which word above in red you misspelled.


[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='533475' date='Aug 25 2007, 08:31 PM']Things won't seem so perfect here once the sun expands and swallows our solar system![/quote]

At least some people at that point will shut the fuck up.



Here's a serious question: who here has changed their mind on these issues based on what they read on this forum? Just curious.



"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business." --Jesse Ventura

[DontPushMe]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='533475' date='Aug 25 2007, 07:31 PM']Things won't seem so perfect here once the sun expands and swallows our solar system!

Also, I agree that conditions on Earth are great for life because of things like the preponderance of liquid water here, considering water's many unique properties which make us possible. I will allow this to be a product of sheer statistics, however, given the number of planets in the universe. Likewise, I wouldn't go too far with claiming that Earth is perfectly suited to us - rather, we have become well-suited to conditions here.

I'd also like to note, in response to an earlier post regarding mutation rates...the atmosphere as it exists today has not always been as protective against UV radiation as it is now. Hell, the existence of oxygen in the atmosphere is a relatively recent phenomenon in itself! I'm not sure what the source's data were considering, but it goes without saying that mutation rates skyrocket in the presence of UV rays.[/quote]
Nice post man.

To everyone trying to fit science into religion, you need to make up your own religion for that, because if you read the bible, there is no room for science in there. So either you are ignoring certain aspects of christianity so you dont have to accept that it doesnt exist, or you are creating your own religion as you go along.

Me, i just focus on whats real and proveable. Science can answer basically any question you'd ask, i dont need to read books that refer to a flat earth to get my answers.

[Khatmandude]

The Bible, The Quran and Science
by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

I think this would be a good book to check out ......it seems everyone focuses on Christianity when talking about religion.

[Khatmandude]

[url="http://www.quranmiracles.com/"]Quran and Science[/url]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='IKOTA' post='533606' date='Aug 26 2007, 11:45 AM']The Bible, The Quran and Science
by Dr. Maurice Bucaille

I think this would be a good book to check out ......it seems everyone focuses on Christianity when talking about religion.[/quote]


That just has to do with the percentage of our populace that are grown up with it. Im no different and pretty ignorant about the Koran as well.

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='CincyInDC' post='533526' date='Aug 25 2007, 10:15 PM']For someone who is all over Jamie's shit for spelling, you should figure out which word above in red you misspelled.
At least some people at that point will shut the fuck up.

Here's a serious question: who here has changed their mind on these issues based on what they read on this forum? Just curious.
"Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business." --Jesse Ventura[/quote]
"It's" isn't spelled "it's"?

I'ts? No.
Its'? No.


And I only tease Jamie about that, I really don't care one way or another.

And again, I am not trying to fit science into religion, or vice-versa. I personally feel a sense of childlike wonderment at the magnificence of not only the Earth, the Solar System, The Sun, The Moon, but the entire Universe, and that inspires in me thoughts of God, particularly because of the symmetry, ordered chaos, and super intricate structure of it all.
I pray to God often, I don't believe much in organized religion, I do not go to church, etc.

And as far as the Sun becoming a red giant and enveloping the Earth...that is the natural order of things. Stars live a lifespan that to us is impossibly long (some stars much longer or shorter than others, based on mass and luminosity, our star will live pretty long because it is decidedly average).

By that time though, SCIENCE will have found a way for us to leave Earth ahead of that eventuality and repopulate elsewhere.

[Lawman]

[quote]IKOTA,
Well, you're looking at a verse from a book that has been changed so often, [b]that there are many inconsistencies in it[/b]. Dont let that be the determining factor.[/quote]

[quote]Lawman
Care to substantiate your claim? I didn't think so[/quote]

[quote]IKOTA
You can't be serious........wait....you know what, based on your posting history........I think you just may be serious.

Do you know we live on planet Earth? Or do I need to substantiate that claim?[/quote]

[i]So you cannot even name one inconnsistency; like I said: "I didn't think so".[/i]

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='533681' date='Aug 26 2007, 02:22 PM']By that time though, SCIENCE will have found a way for us to leave Earth ahead of that eventuality and repopulate elsewhere.[/quote]

Oh great, your 'repopulation' fantasy again, huh? The one with this girl?

[img]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070820/i/r358947613.jpg[/img]

You must have that dream a lot

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='533688' date='Aug 26 2007, 12:33 PM']Oh great, your 'repopulation' fantasy again, huh? The one with this girl?

[img]http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070820/i/r358947613.jpg[/img]

You must have that dream a lot [/quote]
Ha! No, I have that fantasy with an 18 year old version of Janine Garafolo. Being isolated on a desert island is going to require some conversation, so with her at least it will be spirited...

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='Lawman' post='533683' date='Aug 26 2007, 03:55 PM'][i]So you cannot even name one inconnsistency; like I said: "I didn't think so".[/i][/quote]

Wow, you really were serious.

I honestly don't know what to say to you. Are you denying that the Bible has been changed from time to time? You just may be more whacko than I originally thought. When I have some more time, I will give you over 100 inconsistencies in the Bible that you.....I mean CARM.....will try to debunk. And this is in addition to the inconsistencies that others have posted here over the past year or so. How many editions of the Bible are there these days?

Edit: Also, I hate hijacking threads, either start another one or PM me.......that's disrespectful to the originator of this thread.

[Lawman]

[quote]I honestly don't know what to say to you. [b]Are you denying that the Bible has been changed from time to time? You just may be more whacko than I originally thought. When I have some more time, I will give you over 100 inconsistencies in the Bible that you.....[/b]I mean CARM.....will try to debunk. And this is in addition to the inconsistencies that others have posted here over the past year or so. How many editions of the Bible are there these days?[/quote]

[i]I only asked for one; your avoidance is noted.[/i]

[i]Of course you know I can list aborgations (or in other words, they cancel them, rendering them null and void and no longer applicable) in the Quran.[/i]

[quote]How many editions of the Bible are there these days?[/quote]

[i]And how many versions of the Quran were presented before one was accepted (Four).[/i]

[quote]Edit: Also, I hate hijacking threads, either start another one or PM me.......that's disrespectful to the originator of this thread.[/quote]

[i] I agree we should not hijack the thread and maybe it is time for one on the subject. But, you and WhodeyUK never respond with any substantiated rebuttals.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote]"I tell you the truth, some [u]who are standing here [/u]will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."[/quote]-Mark 9:1(NIV)

[i]First off, you must be careful from where you post. When the NIV was brought online there were many copyist mistakes.[/i]

[i]How it should of read:[/i]

Mark 9.1 [i]Verily I say unto you, That there be [b]some of them that stand here[/b], which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.(KJV)[/i]

[i]So, as we can see Jesus was speaking of people during the time of his return not those that were currently
standing within his presence.[/i]

[quote]Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book. -Revelation 22:7(NIV)

There are several more like this.

What you read here are words from Jesus - he talks about his second coming, his return to Earth. [b]Jesus told the people around him that he would be coming soon, very soon, within the lifetimes of some of them.[/b] [b]If these are to be taken literally, he meant he was coming in, say, the next 50 years.[/b] But after hundreds of generations, he has not come. We are forced then into a couple of reasons of why he has not fulfilled this promise.

1. He said this, but it was metaphorical - it should not be taken literally.
2. He did not say this, leaving the veracity of the whole Bible in question.
3. He said this, but was lying to his followers.
4. He said this, and meant it but was unable to - he is not omnipotent.
5. He said this, but he is not the Son of God.
[b]What would you say is the best answer? [/b][/quote]

[i]I would say the best answer is that you do not understand the context from which he speaks.[/i]

[i]Take a look at what I have bolded; you [b]HAVE NOT[/b] presented any passages that indicated his return
would be within the lifetime of those around him. You do get a pass however due to the NIV miss-type.[/i]

[i]Try again?[/i]

[color="#000080"]In Matt. 24:35-36 Jesus said, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away. 36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah."[/color]

[i]Edit: I failed to mention that Mark was not an eyewitness to the life of Jesus; he was a disciple of Peter.[/i]

[xamination]

For inconsistencies of the Bible, here is a list here: [url="http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/biblical_errancy/47"]http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/ro...ical_errancy/47[/url]
BTW, what version do you think is the inerrant word of god?
As for the return of Jesus, I'll discuss it when I have more time.

[Lawman]

[quote]John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.[/quote]

[i]What does this mean? I'll help you:

If Jesus came and said I am God; who would believe him. Yes, he could of performed a miracle; oh wait a minute he did perform many miracles and people did not believe him even his own disciples doubted.

He needed others to witness and make such a claim. Only once did he come close to saying directly that he was god (the Son/WORD in the Trinity of the Godhead)[/i]: [i]In John 8:58 Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” [/i]

[Lawman]

[quote name='xamination' post='533714' date='Aug 26 2007, 03:52 PM']For inconsistencies of the Bible, here is a list here: [url="http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/rook_hawkins/biblical_errancy/47"]http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/ro...ical_errancy/47[/url]
BTW, what version do you think is the inerrant word of god?
As for the return of Jesus, I'll discuss it when I have more time.[/quote]

[i]"I am a GoBEngals Boardmember; there shall be no forums before thee."[/i]


[i]Just choose one.[/i]

[quote]BTW, what version do you think is the inerrant word of god?[/quote]

[i]I would prefer the original manusripts of the New Testament which there are approx 5600 copies written from about 50-100 AD (less than 100 years difference) conversly Homers Illiad was written approx 900 AD with it's earliest copy recorded around 400 BS (500 year difference) totallying approx 640 copies.[/i]

[i]But, that would be for naught since I can't read greek[/i]

[i]Translation is the issue. Some think that the Bible was translated from greek to another language to another language etc until it finally arrives in English. Therefore the "telephone effect" takes place and hence the claim of corruption takes place.

This is not the case; from a copy of the original manuscript the King James Version was derived. Even though I did take four years of french, but I was a C- student and prefer the English version to read.[/i]

[i]Now, admittingly there are copyist errors in the Bible. What do I mean? Ex:

Where a piece of passage states "the son of god"; "the" may have been ommited.[/i]

[i]But, I bet your probably wondering, "Why would base your sole belief on words written so long ago?"[/i]

[i]I present you this offer, show me evidence that points to facts where Pontious Pilate never existed![/i]

[i]Luke 3:1, "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea..."[/i]

[CincyInDC]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='533681' date='Aug 26 2007, 02:22 PM']"It's" isn't spelled "it's"?

I'ts? No.
Its'? No.


And I only tease Jamie about that, I really don't care one way or another.[/quote]

it's = "it is"
its = the possessive pronoun

examples:
1. It's total farce that the universe was created in six days by an all-knowing entity.
2. CARM can shove creationism up its ass.

See the difference?

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons//26.gif[/img]

[Lawman]

[quote]DontPushMe
To everyone trying to fit science into religion, you need to make up your own religion for that, because if you read the bible, [u]there is no room for science in there[/u][/quote]



[b]From CARM:[/b]

[color="#000080"]To the Christian, science is merely that branch of discovery that categorizes, discovers, and utilizes the knowledge woven into the fabric of the universe by a Sovereign, All Powerful, and Omniscient, Creator. Science is not the end of all things, but merely one of the means by which man may glorify God.[/color]

[b]The Spherical Shape of the Earth [/b]- [i]"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22).
The Hebrew language did not have a word for "sphere." Circle is quite sufficient. [/i]

[i]The book of Isiah was written by the prophet Isiah 740 - 680 B.C. ; what was the mindset of some Europeans in 1492.[/i]

[color="#000080"]The Earth is suspended in nothing - "He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7). [/color]

[i]It is unclear when Job was actually written, since it is the Old Testament it had to be before the time of Christ.[/i]

[color="#000080"][b]The Stars are Innumerable [/b]- "He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be" (Genesis 15:5). [/color]

[i]Written by Moses ??? - 1445 B.C. [/i]

[color="#000080"][b]The Existence of Valleys in the Seas[/b] - "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils" (2 Samuel 22:16).[/color]

[i]Written by Ezra 1011-1004 B.C.[/i]

[color="#000080"][b]The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas[/b] - "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28. [/color]

[color="#000080"]The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas - "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8). [/color]

[color="#000080"][b]The Hydrologic Cycle [/b]- "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight" (Job 26:8).
- "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind" (Job 36:27-28)
- "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7). [/color]

[i]Solomon 935 B.C. [/i]

[color="#000080"][b]The Concept of Entropy [/b]- "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded" (Psalm 102:25-26). [/color]

[i]Sons of Korah wrote Psalms 42, 44-49, 84-85, 87; Asaph wrote Psalms 50, 73-83; Heman wrote Psalm 88; Ethan wrote Psalm 89; Hezekiah wrote Psalms 120-123, 128-130, 132, 134-136;
Solomon wrote Psalms 72, 127. [/i]

[i]This my personal favorite and one of the strongest arguments supporting the christian position vs evolution.[/i]

[i]The second law of thermodynamics states that the amount of energy in a system that is available to do work is decreasing. Entropy increases as available energy decreases. In other words, the purely natural tendency of things is to move toward chaos, not order, and available energy necessary for work is lost (mostly as heat) in this process. Eventually, the universe will run down and all life and motion will cease. This is the natural tendency of all things. Batteries run down, machines break, buildings crumble, roads decay, living things die, etc. Left to the natural state, all things would eventually cease to function. [/i]

[i]My own hypothesis dwelves with the advent of Christ; Entropy will cease to exist upon his return.[/i]

[color="#000080"]The Nature of Health, Sanitation, and Sickness - The listing for this section is too large for this page. But the scriptural references are Leviticus chapters 12 through 14.[/color]

[i]As seen, there are many scientific related information intertwined within passages of the bible.[/i]

[Lawman]

[quote]CincyINDC
2. CARM can shove creationism up its ass[/quote]

[i]If your scared; say your scared.[/i]

[CincyInDC]

[quote name='Lawman' post='533744' date='Aug 26 2007, 05:19 PM'][i]If your scared; say your scared.[/i] [/quote]

I'm scared that freaks who believe this shit are running things. If I were afraid for my immortal soul, I'd probably line up for the Kool-Aid, too.

I'm curious why no one mentioned that end of days will come before our sun turns into a red giant and engulfs the Earth.