Cold Hard Football Predictions

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540535' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:32 PM']Aside from your BS, using all your statistics, etc. and bullshit that you're throwing up hoping something will stick, what do you have to explain your starting qb offering a 22.6 rating in the Super Bowl? 9 of 21, 2 INT's... Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could have generated that stat line.

Is that the kind of guy that is "special"? Didn't think so.[/quote]

Aside from your ignorant, jealous, psycho-babble, what do you have to explain his 100+ rating in the playoffs (including the SB) that same year? One of the highest in NFL history? Thats what I thought....thanks for your input.

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540536' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:38 PM']Actually, not in 05. We beat you at your place in December. That was when TJ used the towel to wipe the shit off his cleats...[/quote]

Check your facts. I said including playoffs...we beat you once in the regular season, once in the PO's.

And that reminds me...using the Terrible Towel to wipe his cleats was funny, but Cowher saying We Dey was offensive, right? You guys make me laugh.

[quote name='Brew Crew Grrl' post='540537' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:38 PM']Ya didn't sweep us in 05. We took the second game 38-31. I still think waay to many people (yourself included) still think of us as the pre-Marvin Bengals. Its a different team , different attitude, a a QB who has the capablility of taking them to the top. Take the black and piss yellow blinders off why don't ya

BTW.... say we've got a piss poor D all you want, but the voters of ESPN thought differently putting roughly 8 or 9 AFC teams below us. We get that D fully functional and the Steeler's jerseys won't be the only thing that looks as though its been urinated on [/quote]

First, I didnt say sweep. I said won two games in the season. Second, see above.

As for the Marvin and the D....here is another fact for ya....straight from CHFF

CINCINNATI
The Bengals have ranked 28th, 22nd, 21st and 17th in total defense since alleged defensive guru Marvin Lewis became head coach in 2003.

What makes you think THIS is the year the D steps up? Your only defense is the "voters" of ESPN? Well, I guess that cements it.

[Jamie_B]

Well shit Ben = Joe Montanna.....


who knew.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='540546' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:03 PM']Well shit Ben = Joe Montanna.....
who knew. [/quote]

Nope, Ben=Ben.

Nobody=Montana but Montana.

I think it is funny that you guys always imply that Palmer is this all powerful QB, that will end up as the greatest of all time, when the simple fact is...he has never been even second best in any year.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='540547' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:09 PM']Nope, Ben=Ben.

Nobody=Montana but Montana.[/quote]


Ben = Jake Plummer v2.0

but I digress.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='oftt4' post='540544' date='Sep 5 2007, 01:57 PM']Aside from your ignorant, jealous, psycho-babble, what do you have to explain his 100+ rating in the playoffs (including the SB) that same year? One of the highest in NFL history? Thats what I thought....thanks for your input.
Check your facts. I said including playoffs...we beat you once in the regular season, once in the PO's.

And that reminds me...using the Terrible Towel to wipe his cleats was funny, but Cowher saying We Dey was offensive, right? You guys make me laugh.
First, I didnt say sweep. I said won two games in the season. Second, see above.[/quote]
So, when the lights come on he shits down his leg and throws a 22.6... Nice.

And I quote "Sure you might do it this year, or we might [b]sweep[/b] you". You said sweep, I didn't...

As for jealous, I'd say of pissburgh's overall football success yes. pissburgh the city, hell no. Roethlisberger, no. And, for the record - winning a Super Bowl the way pissburgh did in 05 is a disgrace so for that one, no, not jealous there either.

Why don't you scurry back to your hole you call a home and wait to see how your rookie head coach handles clock issues, etc. before touting yourself for 12 wins this year. By the sound of your arguments it sounds as though you're more certain of 12 Steeler wins than you are of 9 Bengal wins. Is that correct? If that is the case - what bet did you have with Jamie?

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

Why are you all so obbessed with Big Ben? He is my QB and I wouldn't have it any other way. That doesn't mean I don't respect Carson and his skills.

Never understood why you all have such a "woody" for Ben Bashing

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='oftt4' post='540547' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:09 PM']Nope, Ben=Ben.

Nobody=Montana but Montana.

I think it is funny that you guys always imply that Palmer is this all powerful QB, that will end up as the greatest of all time, when the simple fact is...he has never been even second best in any year.[/quote]
Yet interestingly enough, all the announcers / fellows that follow football and played football when discussing quarterbacks throw Palmer in with Manning and Brady as the games best. But, you never hear Roethlisberger in that discussion...

But, I guess they're all just blind Bengal homers right...

Hoge
Jaworski
Parcells
Woodson
Faulk
etc., etc., etc. But what the hell do they know?

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='540558' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:41 PM']Why are you all so obbessed with Big Ben? He is my QB and I wouldn't have it any other way. That doesn't mean I don't respect Carson and his skills.

Never understood why you all have such a "woody" for Ben Bashing[/quote]
I wasn't even in this conversion until I'm watching dumbass oftt4 throwing up stats telling me that he's on par with Manning, etc.

Don't be ridiculous. But, you're right - you like Roeth. Great. Palmer is mine and I wouldn't have it any other way. So we see eye to eye then.

I guess my next question is: why are pissburgh fans on a Bengals board defending one of their players? Why do you even care what Bengal fans say about your players?

Honestly, it doesn't affect my family or my paycheck so I don't take it personally or get too caught up in it. I just don't get going to another team's site and spouting off. Can you give me some kind of explanation for such behavior?

[Brew Crew Grrl]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540560' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:44 PM']Yet interestingly enough, all the announcers / fellows that follow football and played football when discussing quarterbacks throw Palmer in with Manning and Brady as the games best. But, you never hear Roethlisberger in that discussion...

But, I guess they're all just blind Bengal homers right...

Hoge
Jaworski
Parcells
Woodson
Faulk
etc., etc., etc. But what the hell do they know?[/quote]
The funniest thing about that is being all over Carson's jock is the ONLY pro-Bengals thing you'll ever hear come out of their mouths.

Don't bother arguing my fellow Bengal fans. Their mind has been tainted just like their SuberBowl!

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='540558' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:41 PM']Why are you all so obbessed with Big Ben? He is my QB and I wouldn't have it any other way. That doesn't mean I don't respect Carson and his skills.

Never understood why you all have such a "woody" for Ben Bashing[/quote]


I dont hate or am obbessed with ben, what I hate is that you all even pretend he is even in the same league with Carson.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540560' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:44 PM']Yet interestingly enough, all the announcers / fellows that follow football and played football when discussing quarterbacks throw Palmer in with Manning and Brady as the games best. But, you never hear Roethlisberger in that discussion...

But, I guess they're all just blind Bengal homers right...

Hoge
Jaworski
Parcells
Woodson
Faulk
etc., etc., etc. But what the hell do they know?[/quote]


They are all bengals homers!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

[Brew Crew Grrl]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='540567' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:58 PM']They are all bengals homers!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111[/quote]
Liar!
They hate us

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540557' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:40 PM']So, when the lights come on he shits down his leg and throws a 22.6... Nice.

And I quote "Sure you might do it this year, or we might [b]sweep[/b] you". You said sweep, I didn't...

As for jealous, I'd say of pissburgh's overall football success yes. pissburgh the city, hell no. Roethlisberger, no. And, for the record - winning a Super Bowl the way pissburgh did in 05 is a disgrace so for that one, no, not jealous there either.

Why don't you scurry back to your hole you call a home and wait to see how your rookie head coach handles clock issues, etc. before touting yourself for 12 wins this year. By the sound of your arguments it sounds as though you're more certain of 12 Steeler wins than you are of 9 Bengal wins. Is that correct? If that is the case - what bet did you have with Jamie?[/quote]

You arent very bright. I said we might sweep you this year, or you might sweep us. When I was talking about the past I didnt say sweep, I said 2 games in one season. Reading comprehension.

As for the "disgrace"...say what you will....I am well beyond caring what Bengals fans think of the Superbowl.

The hole I call a home? Do you even know where I live? Dont talk out of your ass.

Did I say ANYTHING about 12 wins? The only thing I "touted" the Steelers for was a winning season...and I said they have a good chance at the PO's.

Hooked on phonics dude. Try it.

The bet I have with Jaime is head to head games. If the Steelers win he puts up a sig of my choosing (though I didnt make him do it last year) and vice versa.


[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='540558' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:41 PM']Why are you all so obbessed with Big Ben? He is my QB and I wouldn't have it any other way. That doesn't mean I don't respect Carson and his skills.

Never understood why you all have such a "woody" for Ben Bashing[/quote]

This is the basis of my jealousy argument. We, as Steelers fans, can admit that Palmer is a good QB even though we dont particularly like him (I myself have admitted as much on this board dozens of times). Bengals fans, as a whole, cant admit that about Ben.


[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540560' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:44 PM']Yet interestingly enough, all the announcers / fellows that follow football and played football when discussing quarterbacks throw Palmer in with Manning and Brady as the games best. But, you never hear Roethlisberger in that discussion...[/quote]

I havent? Jeez, I could have sworn I have. But maybe youre right.

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540561' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:49 PM']I wasn't even in this conversion until I'm watching dumbass oftt4 throwing up stats telling me that he's on par with Manning, etc.[/quote]

Wow. That was an interesting bit of fiction. I'm serious dude. Hooked on phonics.

Go back and tell me when I posted stats that you guys didnt bring up first....then tell me where I said that he is on par with Manning.

Nobody in this league is on par with manning, not even your hero.


[quote name='Jamie_B' post='540566' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:57 PM']I dont hate or am obbessed with ben, what I hate is that you all even pretend he is even in the same league with Carson.[/quote]

You mean the NFL?

I dont hate Palmer, either. What I hate is that you all refuse to admit that Ben isnt in the same league with Palmer just because he doesnt throw the ball 35 times a game. What is the point of a football game? To win, right? There is only one player in the league that has been better than Ben in that stat over the last 3 years....Brady. Say what you want about the running game, or the defense, but the simple fact is that Ben is a gamer.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='540561' date='Sep 5 2007, 02:49 PM']I wasn't even in this conversion until I'm watching dumbass oftt4 throwing up stats telling me that he's on par with Manning, etc.

Don't be ridiculous. But, you're right - you like Roeth. Great. Palmer is mine and I wouldn't have it any other way. So we see eye to eye then.

I guess my next question is: why are pissburgh fans on a Bengals board defending one of their players? Why do you even care what Bengal fans say about your players?

Honestly, it doesn't affect my family or my paycheck so I don't take it personally or get too caught up in it. I just don't get going to another team's site and spouting off. Can you give me some kind of explanation for such behavior?[/quote]

And besides, this thread started with a link to some NFL predictions....you guys responded with something along the lines of "oh yeah, well Ben sucks". Pretty standard response, I guess.

I didnt start the QB argument. Personally, I dont really "care" what Bengals fans say about Ben. I just get annoyed by it. The same way you would get annoyed when we say..."Sure, Carson throws the ball a ton. But what has he won?"

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='540992' date='Sep 6 2007, 07:42 AM']I dont hate Palmer, either. What I hate is that you all refuse to admit that Ben isnt in the same league with Palmer just because he doesnt throw the ball 35 times a game. What is the point of a football game? To win, right? There is only one player in the league that has been better than Ben in that stat over the last 3 years....Brady. Say what you want about the running game, or the defense, but the simple fact is that Ben is a gamer.[/quote]


And Trent Dilfer won a superbowl, but Ill bet you Dan Marino has a better chance of getting into the HOF.


He's not in the same league, Carson is a top 3 QB, Ben is not, this is pretty much widely accepted except by Steeler fans.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='540999' date='Sep 6 2007, 08:11 AM']And Trent Dilfer won a superbowl, but Ill bet you Dan Marino has a better chance of getting into the HOF.
He's not in the same league, Carson is a top 3 QB, Ben is not, this is pretty much widely accepted except by Steeler fans.[/quote]

DING DING DING!!!!

And we have our first Trent Dilfer reference. Jaime, you have to know how stupid that sounds.

Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl with what was probably the 2nd or 3rd best defense in the history of the NFL. Trent Dilfer did not set rookie records. Trent Dilfer did not have a 100+ passer rating in the playoffs. Trent Dilfer does not (and did not) have a .739 winning percentage. Trent Dilfer never finished one season, let alone 2, with a passer rating over 98.

Please, just stop with the Trent Dilfer shit. It just makes you sound like a 6 year old.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='541012' date='Sep 6 2007, 09:07 AM']DING DING DING!!!!

And we have our first Trent Dilfer reference. Jaime, you have to know how stupid that sounds.

Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl with what was probably the 2nd or 3rd best defense in the history of the NFL. Trent Dilfer did not set rookie records. Trent Dilfer did not have a 100+ passer rating in the playoffs. Trent Dilfer does not (and did not) have a .739 winning percentage. Trent Dilfer never finished one season, let alone 2, with a passer rating over 98.

Please, just stop with the Trent Dilfer shit. It just makes you sound like a 6 year old.[/quote]


And now you know how you sound when you attempt to put Ben in the same leauge as Carson.

Carson gets us to 11-5 and a division win, two years ago because we both know how bad our D has been. Ben has had a top D his entire playing career.


Seriously just stop.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='541041' date='Sep 6 2007, 10:19 AM']And now you know how you sound when you attempt to put Ben in the same leauge as Carson.

Carson gets us to 11-5 and a division win, two years ago because we both know how bad our D has been. Ben has had a top D his entire playing career.
Seriously just stop.[/quote]


Carson has also had a vastly superior supporting cast on offense, but you guys dont like to bring that up.

I've said it before, Carson is a better passer than Ben....but being a QB is more than just passing.

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='541086' date='Sep 6 2007, 11:13 AM']Carson has also had a vastly superior supporting cast on offense, but you guys dont like to bring that up.

I've said it before, Carson is a better passer than Ben....but being a QB is more than just passing.[/quote]


It's been a crazy day, contract is comming to a rebid so the goverment slimmed down the bridge contract and Im being moved to a new team/contract for coverage.



Ben has a Pro-Bowl WR, a good #2, a decent #3, a probowl linemen (fanaca), and a pretty good TE so lets not pretend he doesnt have help on that side of the ball.

We have had 2 DBs that made the probowl in the past few years and NOTHING ELSE on the D side of the ball.


Now to the "but being a QB is more than just passing." thing. Ben him self has said Carson is a better QB than he is. The majority of analiysts have put Carson in the top 3 QBs. Hell Jaws, on the Monday night preseason game we played said the eliete qbs were Carson, Payton, and Brady (he didnt specifiy a order) and said "NOBODY ELSE", he was even asked if that was it as far as eliete go by Tony, he said "thats it".

Everyone else realizes this except steelers fans. Why? It comes down to that playoff game IMO, and the continued refusal to admit we were/are a better team with Carson at the help and that the possibility exists that you might have lost had he played. We beat you with virtually the same team, minus him and henry, due to their injures just one month prior. I would agree we didnt have a chance if we didnt win that other game, thats not the case. Why does this refusal to admit the possiblites were greater with Carson (and henry to a lesser extent) in that game than without him in it? Because internally you admit what we already know externally, the "championship chest pounding", to us anyway, is hollow.

[bammorrisgotmehigh]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='541368' date='Sep 6 2007, 04:30 PM']It's been a crazy day, contract is comming to a rebid so the goverment slimmed down the bridge contract and Im being moved to a new team/contract for coverage.



Ben has a Pro-Bowl WR, a good #2, a decent #3, a probowl linemen (fanaca), and a pretty good TE so lets not pretend he doesnt have help on that side of the ball.

We have had 2 DBs that made the probowl in the past few years and NOTHING ELSE on the D side of the ball.


Now to the "but being a QB is more than just passing." thing. Ben him self has said Carson is a better QB than he is. The majority of analiysts have put Carson in the top 3 QBs. Hell Jaws, on the Monday night preseason game we played said the eliete qbs were Carson, Payton, and Brady (he didnt specifiy a order) and said "NOBODY ELSE", he was even asked if that was it as far as eliete go by Tony, he said "thats it".

Everyone else realizes this except steelers fans. Why? It comes down to that playoff game IMO, and the continued refusal to admit we were/are a better team with Carson at the help and that the possibility exists that you might have lost had he played. We beat you with virtually the same team, minus him and henry, due to their injures just one month prior. I would agree we didnt have a chance if we didnt win that other game, thats not the case. Why does this refusal to admit the possiblites were greater with Carson (and henry to a lesser extent) in that game than without him in it? Because internally you admit what we already know externally, the "championship chest pounding", to us anyway, is hollow.[/quote]


Your right, Anthony Wright played like shit the last game of the season last year. If Carson had played you would have made the playoffs

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='541650' date='Sep 6 2007, 11:47 PM']Your right, Anthony Wright played like shit the last game of the season last year. If Carson had played you would have made the playoffs[/quote]


Little bit of difference between last years team that was missing ALOT more players to injury and the previous years.

Note: Also I never said that the it would have been an automatic win, I said the chances were greater with Carson than without. Steelers fans however assume it wouldnt have mattered you had the automatic win.

I always imagine you guys reaction when we say this to be something like Luke Skywalker after he found our Darth Vader was his father, "NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE!!! THAT"S IMPOSSIBLE!!!!1111" (whining and everything)

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='bammorrisgotmehigh' post='541650' date='Sep 6 2007, 11:47 PM']Your right, Anthony Wright played like shit the last game of the season last year. If Carson had played you would have made the playoffs[/quote]
You're right - we should have had Palmer kicking the field goal, too...

j/k BengalSis, I love Shayne!

In 05 we'd just beaten your asses, at your place, 1 month prior and had you at home. You knuckle-draggers have got to be two of the biggest dumbasses I've ever had a discussion with if you've got it in your head you were going to win even with Palmer in there. Comparing games from 3 months apart is asinine, much less 12 months. Completely different situation and set of circumstances.

Our offense is very similar to Indy's - take Peyton out of that offense and it is in trouble as well.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='541729' date='Sep 7 2007, 09:06 AM']You're right - we should have had Palmer kicking the field goal, too...

j/k BengalSis, I love Shayne!

[b]In 05 we'd just beaten your asses[/b], at your place, 1 month prior and had you at home. You knuckle-draggers have got to be two of the biggest dumbasses I've ever had a discussion with if you've got it in your head you were going to win even with Palmer in there. Comparing games from 3 months apart is asinine, much less 12 months. Completely different situation and set of circumstances.

Our offense is very similar to Indy's - take Peyton out of that offense and it is in trouble as well.[/quote]

Beaten our asses? You won by ONE SCORE in that game. 38 to 31 is not an ass beating.

And we beat your asses, at your house, 6 games before that. A 14 point win is an ass beating, not quite a blowout...but close.

And you call us dumbasses, but you believe that Palmer being in there guaranteed you a win when he has a losing record against us. Sure, that makes sense.

[oftt4]

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='541368' date='Sep 6 2007, 04:30 PM']Ben has a Pro-Bowl WR, a good #2, a decent #3, a probowl linemen (fanaca), and a pretty good TE so lets not pretend he doesnt have help on that side of the ball.

We have had 2 DBs that made the probowl in the past few years and NOTHING ELSE on the D side of the ball.
Now to the "but being a QB is more than just passing." thing. Ben him self has said Carson is a better QB than he is. The majority of analiysts have put Carson in the top 3 QBs. Hell Jaws, on the Monday night preseason game we played said the eliete qbs were Carson, Payton, and Brady (he didnt specifiy a order) and said "NOBODY ELSE", he was even asked if that was it as far as eliete go by Tony, he said "thats it".

Everyone else realizes this except steelers fans. Why? It comes down to that playoff game IMO, and the continued refusal to admit we were/are a better team with Carson at the help and that the possibility exists that you might have lost had he played. We beat you with virtually the same team, minus him and henry, due to their injures just one month prior. I would agree we didnt have a chance if we didnt win that other game, thats not the case. Why does this refusal to admit the possiblites were greater with Carson (and henry to a lesser extent) in that game than without him in it? Because internally you admit what we already know externally, the "championship chest pounding", to us anyway, is hollow.[/quote]

I find it quite funny that you guys take every opportunity to explain how much better your receivers are than ours...EXCEPT when we suggest that they might be a reason why Palmer has inflated stats.

Before it's "wines hard sucks, pissburgh's offense blows"...now its "you have a Pro Bowl WR, and a good #2, etc". You cant have it both ways.

You guys have great receivers, you know it, the rest of the world knows it. Henry could be a #1 on quite a few teams in the league, a fact that you fellas have mentioned several hundred times except when it proves that Palmer has many more options in the passing game than most.




We have a probowl lineman who's strength is in run blocking, and who's weakness is in pass protection....how does that make your point?




Oh, and as for what Jaws said...you forgot to mention that he said "Palmer needs to PROVE that he is an elite QB". Everyone but Bengals fans realizes this (elite QB's win important games, what has Carson won exactly?)....

[url="http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1615"]http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1615[/url]

[b]ESPN commentator Ron Jaworski is a Cold, Hard Football Facts favorite. But he fell into a typical "pundit" trap yesterday, making a wild overstatement with no evidence to support it. He declared Cincy's Carson Palmer one of the NFL's elite QBs, along with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, but then added, "He's gotta prove he's an elite QB."

If Palmer hasn't proven he's an elite QB, then he's not an elite QB. The math is pretty simple in the world of the Cold, Hard Football Facts.[/b]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='oftt4' post='543152' date='Sep 10 2007, 10:54 AM']I find it quite funny that you guys take every opportunity to explain how much better your receivers are than ours...EXCEPT when we suggest that they might be a reason why Palmer has inflated stats.

Before it's "wines hard sucks, pissburgh's offense blows"...now its "you have a Pro Bowl WR, and a good #2, etc". You cant have it both ways.

You guys have great receivers, you know it, the rest of the world knows it. Henry could be a #1 on quite a few teams in the league, a fact that you fellas have mentioned several hundred times except when it proves that Palmer has many more options in the passing game than most.
We have a probowl lineman who's strength is in run blocking, and who's weakness is in pass protection....how does that make your point?
Oh, and as for what Jaws said...you forgot to mention that he said "Palmer needs to PROVE that he is an elite QB". Everyone but Bengals fans realizes this (elite QB's win important games, what has Carson won exactly?)....

[url="http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1615"]http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1615[/url]

[b]ESPN commentator Ron Jaworski is a Cold, Hard Football Facts favorite. But he fell into a typical "pundit" trap yesterday, making a wild overstatement with no evidence to support it. He declared Cincy's Carson Palmer one of the NFL's elite QBs, along with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, but then added, "He's gotta prove he's an elite QB."

If Palmer hasn't proven he's an elite QB, then he's not an elite QB. The math is pretty simple in the world of the Cold, Hard Football Facts.[/b][/quote]



Uhm because its extreamly simple. Did you hear of TJ before Carson was throwing it to him? Chad was here and was becoming good, Henry wasnt here yet. But TJ was not even heard of before Carson got here.

Nice try but its not just Jaws, that has said this.




Edit: This should be fun... find me one quote where I said Ward sucks.