Patriots Cheating?

[Jason]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='545611' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:49 AM'][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Just punishment ...
- Loss of the game Sunday ... Jets given the win

- Loss of the Pats 2008 1st round pick

- 500,000 $ fine on Pats Ownership
* That will send a message to teams thinking about doing anything like this again. [/b][/size][/font][/quote]

And suspend Belichick for 4 games.

[ChicagoBengal]

[quote name='BlackJesus' post='545611' date='Sep 12 2007, 12:49 AM'][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Just punishment ...
- Loss of the game Sunday ... Jets given the win

- Loss of the Pats 2008 1st round pick

- 500,000 $ fine on Pats Ownership
* That will send a message to teams thinking about doing anything like this again. [/b][/size][/font][/quote]
Along with BJ's suggestions and Jason's suggestion of suspending Belichick, I believe the commish should really put the fear of god into these teams and force the Patriots to re-sign Tory James.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='RayDoggBengal' post='545604' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:43 AM']If all true, all coaches involved should be banned from the NFL for life. Jet's should get the win for last week, and they should lose #1 draft pick next year. Now if the owner was in the know, a fat fine as in 1M or more, if owner didn't know then I'm all for a few 100 thousand fine.[/quote]


[quote name='BlackJesus' post='545611' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:49 AM'][font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]Just punishment ...
- Loss of the game Sunday ... Jets given the win

- Loss of the Pats 2008 1st round pick

- 500,000 $ fine on Pats Ownership
* That will send a message to teams thinking about doing anything like this again. [/b][/size][/font][/quote]
Something along these lines is exactly what I think is appropriate. There is no way they should keep that win from Sunday. And, lose draft picks and money to compensate for the instances that have occurred in earlier games.

What I think will happen is about a 3rd or 4th round pick and Belichick will have like a 1 game suspension or something. Basically, nothing. They'll announce it right after our game as they have the Browns at home the next week and won't need him to be there for that one. The Pats are the golden child - they're not going to get dealt with harshly.

[Farbeyonddriven]

[quote name='Vol_Bengal' post='545737' date='Sep 12 2007, 10:30 AM']What I think will happen is about a 3rd or 4th round pick and Belichick will have like a 1 game suspension or something. Basically, nothing. They'll announce it right after our game as they have the Browns at home the next week and won't need him to be there for that one. The Pats are the golden child - they're not going to get dealt with harshly.[/quote]


*ding*ding*ding* Somebody give this guy a prize.

-E

[oldschooler]

[quote][size=5][b]GOODELL SET TO PENALIZE BILL, PATS[/b][/size]
By STEVE SERBY

September 12, 2007 -- Roger Goodell apparently has caught Bill Belichick’s hand in the cookie jar.

[b]The rookie NFL commissioner, according to an ESPN report, is poised to penalize the Patriots severely for blatantly violating league rules[/b] when they videotaped Jets defensive signals during the course of their 38-14 season-opening romp at Giants Stadium. [b][size=3]That is likely to mean one high draft pick, one medium-round draft pick and a hefty fine. [/size][/b]

The Patriots will be allowed an opportunity to present their case by Friday, but it is likely to fall on deaf ears.

“There is an investigation going on now, and perhaps an adjudication of it, and I think it would be inappropriate at this time to make any comment,” Patriots owner Robert Kraft told reporters at a charity appearance.

“When you’re successful in anything, a lot of people like to try to take you down and do different things. We understand that. We worked very hard to try to put an organization together that we all could be proud of in New England, and we’re very proud of the New England Patriots organization and the record that they’ve established over the last 13 seasons and one game.”

NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when Jets security chief Steve Yarnell smelled a rat and suspected Estrella was recording the Jets’ defensive signals.

[b]This isn’t Estrella’s first offense, either. He was apprehended during a game last year in Green Bay - a game the Patriots won 35-0 - and removed and escorted from the sideline.

“From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out,” Packers president Bob Harlan said.

Goodell received the camera and tape in a sealed box and could not have been pleased when his suspicions were confirmed that Belichick has been added to the list of bad boys. [/b]

Belichick’s relationship with Jets coach Eric Mangini, his former longtime aide and defensive coordinator, has deteriorated since Mangini left to become Jets head coach a year ago.

Chargers superstar LaDainian Tomlinson, who accused the Patriots of lacking class after losing to them in last year’s playoffs and gets a chance at revenge Sunday, said he was not surprised by the story.

“People in Miami, the Jets, have been complaining about something that the Patriots have done,” Tomlinson said. “Either get in their playbook somehow, or bringing a player in just because they’re playing them that week. So it really doesn’t surprise me that they’re trying to gain an edge any way they can.“

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said no official decision has been made on the I Spy incident.

[b]No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field or in the locker room during the game. Videotaping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals on the sidelines is prohibited.[/b]

I Spy will not sit well with classy Patriots owner Robert Kraft, who was recently voted Owner of the Year.

[b]The league also was reviewing a possible violation into the number of radio frequencies the Patriots were using during the game, the report said. The team did not have a satisfactory explanation when asked about possible irregularities in its communication setup during the game. [/b]

steve.serby@nypost.com[/quote]





[url="http://www.nypost.com/seven/09122007/sports/jets/belicheat.htm"]http://www.nypost.com/seven/09122007/sport...s/belicheat.htm[/url]

[mongo]

Dynasty, or syndicate? Seems to be a reasonable question, under the circumstances... Terrell Davis was asked what should happen to the Patriots, and his response was awesome. He says they should get an NCAA type of probation, banning them from post-season play for this year. Let them win all the games they want, they're not going anywhere, and they're paying their guys to do jack.

[Farbeyonddriven]

[quote name='mongo' post='545755' date='Sep 12 2007, 11:01 AM']Dynasty, or syndicate? Seems to be a reasonable question, under the circumstances... Terrell Davis was asked what should happen to the Patriots, and his response was awesome. He says they should get an NCAA type of probation, banning them from post-season play for this year. Let them win all the games they want, they're not going anywhere, and they're paying their guys to do jack. [/quote]

I've always liked Terrell.

-E

[Actium]

Make Belichick become coach of the browns again, and throw Tom Brady under center in Cleveland. We'll see how brilliant BB is, and how clutch Tom Terrific really is then.

[img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/19.gif[/img]

[mongo]

He didn't add in the part about paying guys to do nothing, but that's exactly what they'd be doing. What an amazingly harsh punishment for a pro team. Lost chance at playoffs, lost salaries, lost years on contracts... In essence, a year of "window" time totally out the...um...window.

[Actium]

From the fine folks at PFT:
[quote]POSTED 8:58 a.m. EDT, September 12, 2007

WERE PATS STUNG BY COMPETITION COMMITTEE?

There's a theory making the rounds in league circles that the Sunday confiscation of Matt Estrella's camera was the result of a specific effort by the NFL's Competition Committee to nail the Patriots.

It was, some believe, a sting operation.

[b]Rumors also are swirling that Jets coach Eric Mangini, who was with the Pats through the 2005 season, began to spread the word to other teams in 2006 regarding the tactics that Bill Belichick employs. But even after a close call last year in Green Bay, the Patriots kept doing it.[/b]

The thinking in some circles is that the Competition Committee, which has endorsed the use of a radio receiver in the helmet of one defensive player, wants to use the Patriots' situation as the impetus for getting the additional two votes necessary to pass the rule.

In March 2007, 22 of the 24 teams needed to push the measure through voted in favor of it.

Though such a rule will not be perfect given the extent of the substitutions made on defense, it would eliminate the temptation to steal defensive signals, because it would eliminate the defensive signals.

And, in our view, it's a no-brainer that this rule will be passed come March 2008.[/quote]

[Jeb]

[quote name='Actium' post='545765' date='Sep 12 2007, 11:10 AM']From the fine folks at PFT:[/quote]

So that's why Belicheat hates Mangini.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='mongo' post='545761' date='Sep 12 2007, 11:06 AM']He didn't add in the part about paying guys to do nothing, but that's exactly what they'd be doing. What an amazingly harsh punishment for a pro team. Lost chance at playoffs, lost salaries, lost years on contracts... In essence, a year of "window" time totally out the...um...window.[/quote]
The perfect thing would be for the punishment to remain quiet - let everyone else think nothing is getting done, the Patriots proceed to win 12, 13, 14 games or whatever and then come week 17 drop the hammer.

I'd pay money to see Belicheck's, Brady's, and especially Moss' face when they heard that news. Especially if they'd have won homefield - that would be priceless...

que mastercard commercial.

[Bengals1181]

take $10 million off their cap room for 2 years.

[Indianabengal]

[size=4][center]Does anyone else feel pretty damn sure that the Bengals/Pats game will be called fairly? If this broke last yr, we wouldn't have had the bogus KK call.

"The Dynasty IS Dead"[/center][/size]

[Actium]

[quote name='Indianabengal' post='545882' date='Sep 12 2007, 12:40 PM'][size=4][center]Does anyone else feel pretty damn sure that the Bengals/Pats game will be called fairly? If this broke last yr, we wouldn't have had the bogus KK call.

"The Dynasty IS Dead"[/center][/size][/quote]

I hope so...can't stand 'em. At the very least maybe the media will stop giving Brady homage-fellatio.

[VonBlade]

This made me laugh :

[quote]FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick apologized to his team on Wednesday and[b] confirmed that he has spoken to NFL commissioner Roger Goodell about his "interpretation" of league rules that ban videotaping of the opposing sideline.[/b]

It was not clear what Belichick was apologizing for, and the coach repeatedly refused to elaborate on a one-paragraph statement issued 10 minutes before a regularly scheduled news conference to discuss Sunday night's game against the San Diego Chargers.[/quote]

I can just imagine that conversation;

Bill : "Sorry Roger. I thought when you said that it was against the rules to videotape the sideline I thought you meant the whole thing rather than one person". Or maybe "Sorry Roger. I know we're the Patriots and so you'll deduct us a seventh rounder and deduct the Bengals a first because they have video tape too".
VB

[Actium]

[quote name='VonBlade' post='545900' date='Sep 12 2007, 01:04 PM']This made me laugh :
I can just imagine that conversation;

Bill : "Sorry Roger. I thought when you said that it was against the rules to videotape the sideline I thought you meant the whole thing rather than one person". Or maybe "Sorry Roger. I know we're the Patriots and so you'll deduct us a seventh rounder and deduct the Bengals a first because they have video tape too".
VB[/quote]

Or, "Oh, you meant the sideline as an area! I thought you meant the actual line. Whoa. Mea Culpa, Commish. I was thinking, 'Geez, why would I want to videotape a line of chalk. I mean, they do a nice job keeping it straight, but come on!' Sorry about that. Might want to be a little more clear next time."

[Indianabengal]

[b]Roger: [/b] "Now you know Bill that I am going to have to suspend you for a game? How does week 5 sound when Cleveland visits Foxboro?"

[b]Bill: [/b]"Uh' Okay, Just let me roll that tape one more time Roger. I know you hate those fuckin Bengals and we sure don't want those fuckers in the playoffs."

[VonBlade]

They'll probably stop the Patriots from playing one week.

The bye week.

Hey it all counts! (q.v Frostee and his injury/suspension)

[BklynBngl]

Lance quotes Carson:

[quote]On Patriots cheating: "I hope he makes them forfeit their game vs us. I hope he deals with them as hard as he's dealt with individual players.[/quote]

Pretty intense.

[Rumble In the Jungle]

i hope Goddell does come down real hard on those fuckers!

[Dodgems]

Minimum sentence should be forfeit last weeks game. Suspend BB for min 2 games. Loss of post season eligibility this year and loss of next years 1st & 2nd draft pick. The NFL has to come down hard.

In reality I only see them getting a slap on the wrist though. If the NFL comes down hard they will give the impression it was a widespread issue and I am certain they are scrambling to minimize the amount of facts that come out. The less that is known the better for both sides in this case.

[BengalMom]

Here is a DipWad reporter who is clueless...

[quote][/quote]Products of the system

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
September 11, 2007





The National Football League's greatest rogue philosopher offered the most succinct and enduring mission statement about the league and the game of football.

"Just win, baby," Oakland Raiders managing partner Al Davis always says, cutting to the chase like no one else.

There is no honor in the NFL. This is our most violent game, a cut-throat, all-out, win-at-all-costs sport where cheating – be it holding on the line, bumping in the secondary, or injecting a drug in the corner of a weight room – is, if not applauded, at the very least accepted.

Each sport has a culture and what people raise hell about in baseball, golf or basketball is mostly shrugged off in the NFL. That this is far and away our most popular sporting pursuit – the new national pastime – says as much about America as it does about the league's morals.

So what to make of the NFL's present-day coaching deity, Bill Belichick, the one who has won three of the last six Super Bowls but now is embroiled in a cheating scandal?

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has "determined" that a New England Patriots employee videotaped the New York Jets defensive signals in a 38-14 victory Sunday, according to ESPN. The commissioner awaits the Pats' defense later this week.

So is Belichick the greatest Machiavellian mind in this ruthless game, one who just happened to get caught this time? Or is he just a lout and a cheat?

Is he an NFL problem or is he the NFL; a byproduct of a business where a coach that doesn't seek every last advantage is doomed to fail, like an honest politician?

"I think the Patriots actually live by the saying, 'If you're not cheating, you're not trying,' " said San Diego Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson.

Here's the thing with Belichick: this charge fits perfectly with everything we know about him on and off the field. He's no angel, a lifetime of drama that ranged from backing out of contracts, feuding with mentors (Bill Parcells) and protégés (Eric Mangini) alike and even giving the tabloids plenty of fodder for his, ah, extracurricular behavior, if you will.

But it also fits with everything we know about the NFL. Don't coaches hide their mouths when they speak, use multiple sideline signalers and guard playbooks with their lives? Wouldn't they sell their soul to know what an opponent is thinking?

"Really, it's nothing new," said pissburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin about signal stealing. "When you see offensive coordinators covering their mouth – and that's been going on a long time – that's one of the reasons why that's done.

"You hear rumors of things of that nature," Tomlin said, noting it often comes from the "New England family." "In terms of confirming it, it's never been confirmed in any instance to my knowledge. But usually where there is smoke, there's fire. Those rumors are founded on something. So it's not totally shocking, no."

Not shocking, perhaps. But embarrassing? Absolutely. The Green Bay Packers claim they caught a Patriots employee videotaping their signals a year ago and complained to the NFL.

If New England's defense is as feeble as expected, then the franchise should be punished. The rules are the rules, no matter how often they are broken; no matter the base culture.

Goodell should take a draft pick or even suspend Belichick, who's iron-fisted leadership means no employee would dare try this without his knowledge. Stealing signals via the human eye is one thing. Having an employee use a video camera speaks to an operation that is both brazen and premeditated.

It also shows the depths these coaches will go for a competitive edge. When properly executed, the advantage would be considerable. But in this instance, the risk/reward variable seems painfully small since the Patriots are more than capable of whippin' the Jets all on their own.

Perhaps that's just football. Whether Belichick is actually worse (or better) than any other coach in the league is difficult to determine. All of these coaches are nuts. To be an NFL coach is to work endless 100-hour weeks, sleep in your office and go bleary-eyed looking for the slightest flaw in an opponents’ Tampa 2. Then you wind up losing because a kicker goes wide right.

They sacrifice everything in their lives in pursuit of victories. The casualties are easy to see: health, marriage, children, sanity. It's why NFL football coaches, despite being multimillionaires, are perhaps the single most miserable group of people you'll ever know.

If you are willing to virtually abandon your wife and kids to win a game, what won't you do?

The NFL isn't alone here. Cheating is everywhere. And it can be confusing, each sport has a different culture. In golf, you can't improve your lie an inch, yet in soccer flopping is considered a skill. In baseball, cheating pitchers are colorful but corked-bat hitters are condemned. In NASCAR, a crew chief that isn't pushing the legal limits of engineering isn't doing his job. College sports is often hailed for its "purity," yet illegal recruiting is so prevalent former UNLV coach Jerry Tarkanian once surmised, "Nine out of 10 teams are cheating, the other is in last place."

So why expect anything less in the NFL? Fans want victories and nothing else. There are no illusions of purity here. They'll gladly cheer for players who can range from miscreant to felon. The players themselves will vote peers who have been busted taking performance enhancing drugs into the Pro Bowl.

Nobody cares. Nothing matters. If you're not cheating, you're not trying. Just win, baby.

That's the NFL. And that is the world that would lead someone such as Bill Belichick, someone with so much to lose, to insanely risk his reputation on the long shot that a small advantage might provide just one more victory he probably would have gotten anyway.


Dan Wetzel is Yahoo! Sports' national columnist. Send Dan a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

Updated on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 8:10 pm, EDT

[|BlackJesus|]

[font="Arial Narrow"][size=3][b]The Patriots and Steelers should have their own special team color * asterisks in the NFL record books [/b][/size][/font]

[Jamie_B]

[quote name='mongo' post='545755' date='Sep 12 2007, 11:01 AM']Dynasty, or syndicate? Seems to be a reasonable question, under the circumstances... Terrell Davis was asked what should happen to the Patriots, and his response was awesome. He says they should get an NCAA type of probation, banning them from post-season play for this year. Let them win all the games they want, they're not going anywhere, and they're paying their guys to do jack. [/quote]


I would love this.