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Looking forward to a great game in 3 weeks.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/jp.swf?video_id=ervaMPt4Ha0&eurl=http%3A//webmail.aol.com/31361/aol/en-us/Lite/MsgRead.aspx%3Ffolder%3DNew%2520Mail%26uid%3D1.18434514%26seq%3D0%26start%3D0&iurl=http%3A//img.youtube.com/vi/ervaMPt4Ha0/default.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskLBuNI3HT5GA4zTcoNS1L9L&autoplay=1"]http://www.youtube.com/jp.swf?video_id=erv...&autoplay=1[/url]
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Good luck. I think you'll need it. That defense looks like it couldnt stop the Shady Acres Retirement Home 2nd stringers...

I kid...I kid because I love....ok...not really...it's just fun.

Good luck mostly because I had to start Palmer in my FF league.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='568369' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:39 AM']Good luck. I think you'll need it. That defense looks like it couldnt stop the Shady Acres Retirement Home 2nd stringers...

I kid...I kid because I love....ok...not really...it's just fun.

Good luck mostly because I had to start Palmer in my FF league.[/quote]

Why did you have to start Palmer?Is Ben your normal starter?
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[quote name='schotzee' post='568371' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:46 AM']Why did you have to start Palmer?Is Ben your normal starter?[/quote]

Ben is one of them, yes. He has been more consistant than Palmer so far. Palmer has more total points mostly due to the Cleveland game...but he has thrown two picks in three straight games. That makes me nervous about starting him.

Just for reference, and so you dont think I am a complete homer...Palmer is 6th overall (in weekly average for QB's) in my league, Ben is 7th...so they are basically interchangable.

I just feel that with Ben, I am guaranteed 12-15 points or so. With Palmer, I could get 35 or I could get 9. I usually take the sure thing.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='568399' date='Oct 14 2007, 11:50 AM']Ben is one of them, yes. He has been more consistant than Palmer so far. Palmer has more total points mostly due to the Cleveland game...[b]but he has thrown two picks in three straight games[/b]. That makes me nervous about starting him.

Just for reference, and so you dont think I am a complete homer...Palmer is 6th overall (in weekly average for QB's) in my league, Ben is 7th...so they are basically interchangable.

I just feel that with Ben, I am guaranteed 12-15 points or so. With Palmer, I could get 35 or I could get 9. I usually take the sure thing.[/quote]

Make that four straight.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='570851' date='Oct 15 2007, 05:29 PM']Just for note:

I havent been posting as much here because oftt's continued ridiculusness about palmer and ben being interchangeable. It just makes it hard to take seriously.[/quote]

Comp/Att/Yards
Carson Palmer 127/203/1,491
Ben Roethlisberger 81/131/1,013

Average
CP 7.3
BR 7.7

Yards/Game
CP 298.2
BR 202.6

TD/Int
CP 12/8
BR 9/3

Rating
Palmer = 88.1
Roethlisberger = 99.2

Right now, this year.... I'd say they [i]are[/i] interchangeable, wouldn't you Jamie??
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[quote name='frankie martin' post='571116' date='Oct 15 2007, 10:31 PM']QB Team Com Att Pct Yards Avg Yds/Gm TD Int Long 20+ 40+ Sacked Rating
Carson Palmer CIN 127 203 62.6 1,491 7.3 298.2 12 8 42T 23 1 9 88.1

Ben Roethlisberger PIT 81 131 61.8 1,013 7.7 202.6 9 3 43T 17 2 11 99.2
Right now, this year... I'd say there [i]are[/i]interchangeable. Wouldn't you Jamie??[/quote]


no
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[quote name='frankie martin' post='571131' date='Oct 15 2007, 10:47 PM']i don't know how you figure that one Mr B. Read the stats.... As far as fantasy numbers, (which is what Oft was talkin about) they look dead even. If i didn't put the names up there you might even take the bottom QB.[/quote]


Here is the problem that is typical of the steelers fan, so oft and yourself can hardly be blamed fo this.

Stat lines never tell the whole story.

1 QB is far more moble
1 QB has had 3 different Starting Olinemen miss at least one game and hasnt had the Oline gell as a unit yet because of it.
1 QB has an effective running game.
1 QB has a 1st round TE to throw to when both of his WRs go out.



Once Levi gets into playing shape and we get Chris Perry into playing shape (as he is our Heath Miller in the passing game so to speak), lets do a comparison then.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='571119' date='Oct 15 2007, 10:35 PM']no[/quote]

Palmers weekly average in my league: 17.8
Bens weekly average in my league: 14.4

3 points means that they are basically interchangable...depending on the matchups. How can you be offended by that?

[quote name='Jamie_B' post='571188' date='Oct 16 2007, 02:47 AM']Here is the problem that is typical of the steelers fan, so oft and yourself can hardly be blamed fo this.

Stat lines never tell the whole story.

1 QB is far more moble
1 QB has had 3 different Starting Olinemen miss at least one game and hasnt had the Oline gell as a unit yet because of it.
1 QB has an effective running game.
1 QB has a 1st round TE to throw to when both of his WRs go out.
Once Levi gets into playing shape and we get Chris Perry into playing shape (as he is our Heath Miller in the passing game so to speak), lets do a comparison then.[/quote]

1 - more mobile meaning having pocket awareness? Yes, I agree that Carson cannot feel pressure coming.

2 - Ben has had linemen missing as well. He also has to run for his life 1 out of every 3 plays because those linemen cant protect him. Find another argument.

3 - So because the Bengals refuse to run the ball, that means Carson is better? Yeah, that makes sense. You guys average 3.7 YPC (pretty much league average)...maybe if you ran more than 20 times a game they would control the clock a little better...which would take pressure off of your defense...but no, they put everything on Palmer and he obviously cant handle it when it matters.

4 - Really? One QB has 2 probowl caliber recievers who havent missed a game. He and his "vaunted" offense are not scoring as much as the "ball control" offense of the Steelers (and he is also 1 off the league lead for INT's)


Stat lines never tell the whole story - that is a common problem among Steelers fans is it? You cant be serious. Big numbers are the ONLY ARGUMENT you guys have of how Carson is so superior....our argument is that stat lines dont tell the whole story...so now that Bens numbers are better than Carsons...all of a sudden stats dont matter. You just talked yourself into a hole.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='571335' date='Oct 16 2007, 12:18 PM']Palmers weekly average in my league: 17.8
Bens weekly average in my league: 14.4

3 points means that they are basically interchangable...depending on the matchups. How can you be offended by that?
1 - more mobile meaning having pocket awareness? Yes, I agree that Carson cannot feel pressure coming.

2 - Ben has had linemen missing as well. He also has to run for his life 1 out of every 3 plays because those linemen cant protect him. Find another argument.

3 - So because the Bengals refuse to run the ball, that means Carson is better? Yeah, that makes sense. You guys average 3.7 YPC (pretty much league average)...maybe if you ran more than 20 times a game they would control the clock a little better...which would take pressure off of your defense...but no, they put everything on Palmer and he obviously cant handle it when it matters.

4 - Really? One QB has 2 probowl caliber recievers who havent missed a game. He and his "vaunted" offense are not scoring as much as the "ball control" offense of the Steelers (and he is also 1 off the league lead for INT's)
Stat lines never tell the whole story - that is a common problem among Steelers fans is it? You cant be serious. Big numbers are the ONLY ARGUMENT you guys have of how Carson is so superior....our argument is that stat lines dont tell the whole story...so now that Bens numbers are better than Carsons...all of a sudden stats dont matter. You just talked yourself into a hole.[/quote]


1. No mobile as in is able to scramble. Stop, you knew what I meant and twisting it to fit your idea is absurd.

2. Have they been missing for mulitipule games? He can run for his life much better than Carson can, remember also that Carson is still effected from a mobility standpoint by his injury, he's even said it wolnt be back to normal till next year from a mobility standpoint. See Culpeper, Dante as a point of reference for this arguement. Arguemet therefor still very valid.

3. Refuse to run, and being forced to pass because your behind or because your RB isnt as good as he once was are pretty different things dont you think? Cant handle what? Teams run cover 2 D's on us because they can, it's the smartest thing any D cood could do when you have no effective 3rd option in the passing game.


4. No Stats tell only a partial story, they dont speak to injury or missing componets. So what is this hole you speak of?



Give it a rest already, Ben himself has admited as much, when will you admit he isnt as good as Carson? Seriously?
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='571343' date='Oct 16 2007, 12:41 PM']1. No mobile as in is able to scramble. Stop, you knew what I meant and twisting it to fit your idea is absurd.

2. Have they been missing for mulitipule games? He can run for his life much better than Carson can, remember also that Carson is still effected from a mobility standpoint by his injury, he's even said it wolnt be back to normal till next year from a mobility standpoint. See Culpeper, Dante as a point of reference for this arguement. Arguemet therefor still very valid.

3. Refuse to run, and being forced to pass because your behind or because your RB isnt as good as he once was are pretty different things dont you think? Cant handle what? Teams run cover 2 D's on us because they can, it's the smartest thing any D cood could do when you have no effective 3rd option in the passing game.
4. No Stats tell only a partial story, they dont speak to injury or missing componets. So what is this hole you speak of?
Give it a rest already, Ben himself has admited as much, when will you admit he isnt as good as Carson? Seriously?[/quote]

Ben rarely runs for yardage when he is pressured, he avoids sacks and throws on the move. Most of that is knowing when to leave the pocket, which Palmer apparently doesnt. I am not twisting anything. Palmer has run 7 times, Ben has run 8. Avoiding pressure is not the same as a Qb running.

So we are still complaining about injuries from 2005 are we? Well, Ben was hurt just last year...so I guess if he hadnt been then his passer rating would be 30 points higher and he would have 8 more TD's. Palmer had one of his best years statistically LAST season, why didnt the injury bother him then?

So, when Carson's defense is missing components that is why Carson's offense cant score points? But when Ben is missing his top 2 recievers that is irrelevant?

Ben said Carson was better, so what...it is called humility. If you want to throw out quotes, here is one from Carson.."We dont play for stats, we play to win games". I guess that means that Palmer cant even sniff Ben's jockstrap.

How many years do we have to hear excuses? Palmer lost because of this...Palmer lost because of that...before you just admit that he chokes when it matters?
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[quote name='oftt4' post='571361' date='Oct 16 2007, 01:24 PM']Ben rarely runs for yardage when he is pressured, he avoids sacks and throws on the move. Most of that is knowing when to leave the pocket, which Palmer apparently doesnt. I am not twisting anything. Palmer has run 7 times, Ben has run 8. Avoiding pressure is not the same as a Qb running.

So we are still complaining about injuries from 2005 are we? Well, Ben was hurt just last year...so I guess if he hadnt been then his passer rating would be 30 points higher and he would have 8 more TD's. Palmer had one of his best years statistically LAST season, why didnt the injury bother him then?

So, when Carson's defense is missing components that is why Carson's offense cant score points? But when Ben is missing his top 2 recievers that is irrelevant?

Ben said Carson was better, so what...it is called humility. If you want to throw out quotes, here is one from Carson.."We dont play for stats, we play to win games". I guess that means that Palmer cant even sniff Ben's jockstrap.

How many years do we have to hear excuses? Palmer lost because of this...Palmer lost because of that...before you just admit that he chokes when it matters?[/quote]

This is why I dont bother with you anymore, your worst than a women when it comes to twisting things.

You act like Im saying Ben is Michael Vick. Ben is able to move and scramble better than Carson, part of that is Carson's recovery time in referencing his mobility, thats not excuses that mear fact, try knowing what the hell your talking about here. A QB that doesnt have to move all the time can come back ealier than one who does. It's why Culpepper was ineffective untill this year, (remember he had the same injury, but a year earlier). Carson is not the scrambler that Ben or Culpeper is so he needs his Oline to block for him moreso than Ben does, that has nothing to do with pocket awarness, and everything to do with mobility.

Yeah Ben and humility, thats rich. Well duh, nobody plays for stats but they in part are used to measure the effectiveness of a QB. Do I need to bold or resize the, IN PART, part? Or do you need to go back and reread my thoughts on why Carson despite having the stats is #3 behind manning and brady?

Choke when it matters?? How many games has he been in where HE was the reason the bengals lost?

Im now even moreso than before conviced that you actually dont ever watch the bengals and only pull stat lines and articles that confirm your point of view without reading others or actually watching a few games. Your ignorance of the team shows that very well, and it's why I just cant take you seriously, you've become nothing more than a character anymore.
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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='571371' date='Oct 16 2007, 01:59 PM']Choke when it matters?? How many games has he been in where HE was the reason the bengals lost?

Im now even moreso than before conviced that you actually dont ever watch the bengals and only pull stat lines and articles that confirm your point of view without reading others or actually watching a few games. Your ignorance of the team shows that very well, and it's why I just cant take you seriously, you've become nothing more than a character anymore.[/quote]

2 picks 4 games in a row helps your team? Ok. Funny, when Ben was throwing all of his INT's last season it was his fault...now that Palmer is playing catch with the other team, it is his team's fault. Does that about sum it up?

Jaime, it really doesnt matter if you take me seriously. I can understand why you like Palmer...when your team sucks, you grab hold of the only positive thing and praise it. I did the same thing with Ward the year we went 6-10 with Maddox pissing games away. It is understandable.

But you need to face reality. Palmer is not a clutch player. He is a stat monger.

Lets see how your last few games ended...

KC - 3:20 left in the game. Down by 10. Palmer throws a pick in KC territory. That is on top of another INT earlier and a fumble. How exactly did he not cost you the game when he was responsible for 3 turnovers?

NE - you were doomed from the start. The 2 picks didnt help, but I'll give him a pass on this one.

Sea - 2 picks again. Your defense held up their end by forcing 5 punts, getting 2 interceptions, and forcing a safety. So again, who didnt get the job done?

CLE - your defense didnt do shit. The game ended, however, on Palmer's 2nd pick at the Cleveland 27 yard line while down 6 with 20 seconds left.


What I dont understand is why Palmer automatically gets a pass from you no matter how he plays. When was the last time he threw more TD's than INT's in a game? It was a month ago, in case you didnt know.

At least when Ben plays like shit, I admit it.
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[quote name='oftt4' post='571781' date='Oct 17 2007, 07:38 AM']2 picks 4 games in a row helps your team? Ok. Funny, when Ben was throwing all of his INT's last season it was his fault...now that Palmer is playing catch with the other team, it is his team's fault. Does that about sum it up?

Jaime, it really doesnt matter if you take me seriously. I can understand why you like Palmer...when your team sucks, you grab hold of the only positive thing and praise it. I did the same thing with Ward the year we went 6-10 with Maddox pissing games away. It is understandable.

But you need to face reality. Palmer is not a clutch player. He is a stat monger.

Lets see how your last few games ended...

KC - 3:20 left in the game. Down by 10. Palmer throws a pick in KC territory. That is on top of another INT earlier and a fumble. How exactly did he not cost you the game when he was responsible for 3 turnovers?

NE - you were doomed from the start. The 2 picks didnt help, but I'll give him a pass on this one.

Sea - 2 picks again. Your defense held up their end by forcing 5 punts, getting 2 interceptions, and forcing a safety. So again, who didnt get the job done?

CLE - your defense didnt do shit. The game ended, however, on Palmer's 2nd pick at the Cleveland 27 yard line while down 6 with 20 seconds left.


What I dont understand is why Palmer automatically gets a pass from you no matter how he plays. When was the last time he threw more TD's than INT's in a game? It was a month ago, in case you didnt know.

[color="#FF0000"]At least when Ben plays like shit, I admit it.[/color][/quote]



So... about last night? :P

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[quote name='Jamie_B' post='575935' date='Oct 22 2007, 12:53 PM']So... about last night? :P[/quote]

See if I was like a Bengals fan, I would just say that Ben threw 4 td's, completed 69% of his passes, and had a passer rating of 108. But that doesnt tell the whole story.

Ben played like ass in the first half, but he played well in the 2nd half. Especially the last Pitt drive, where he was 8 for 8 and a TD that tied the game. He helped to put the Steelers in a hole, but he dug them out of it.



Let me ask you again...when was the last time Palmer threw more TD's than INT's in a game?

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[quote name='oftt4' post='575972' date='Oct 22 2007, 01:17 PM']See if I was like a Bengals fan, I would just say that Ben threw 4 td's, completed 69% of his passes, and had a passer rating of 108. But that doesnt tell the whole story.

[color="#FF0000"]Ben played like ass in the first half, but he played well in the 2nd half.[/color] Especially the last Pitt drive, where he was 8 for 8 and a TD that tied the game. He helped to put the Steelers in a hole, but he dug them out of it.



Let me ask you again...when was the last time Palmer threw more TD's than INT's in a game?[/quote]


Thats all I ask.

And as to Palmer, he didnt really need to pass that much yesterday did he? Interesting how that happens when our Oline is finally healthy and jelling. Should be fun to watch him this week.
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