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BlackJesus

Ok WWII buffs ... a look at WWII Casualties

  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. in your opinion ... Which single country is most responsible for defeating the Nazis ?

    • Soviet Union
      14
    • USA
      6
    • UK
      2
  2. 2. in your opinion ... Which single country is most responsible for defeating Japan ?

    • USA
      22
    • China
      0
    • UK
      0
  3. 3. in your opinion ... Which single country is most responsible for defeating the AXIS (both) ?

    • Soviet Union
      5
    • USA
      17
  4. 4. in your opinion ... Which fighting force was better on a per man avg ?

    • Germany
      14
    • Soviet Union
      2
    • USA
      3
    • UK
      2
    • Japan
      1
  5. 5. In the game Axis & Allies you prefer to play as ?

    • Soviets
      3
    • UK
      0
    • USA
      3
    • Japan
      1
    • Germany
      6
    • Never played it ... dorks
      8


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[size=3][b][quote][center][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Allies-Piechart.png[/img]




[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/WorldWarII-MilitaryDeaths-Axis-Piechart.png[/img]





[font="Arial Narrow"][u][size=6]Military Casualties [/size][/u]
[size=2][i](I took the time to add up the charts at the link below)[/i][/size]





[size=4][u][color="#FF0000"]Axis[/color][/u][/size]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Nazi_Swastika.svg/50px-Nazi_Swastika.svg.png[/img] German Armed forces

Killed = 5,318,000

Wouned = 6,035,000

Taken Prisoner = 11,100,000




[img]http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/images/japan_naval_ensign.gif[/img] Japan Armed Forces

Killed = 1,940,000

Wouned = 94,500

Taken Prisoner = 40,000


-------

[color="#FF0000"][u]AXIS TOTAL [/u]

Killed = 7,258,000

Wouned = 6,129,500[/color]








[size=4][color="#0000FF"][u]Allies[/u][/color][/size]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Hammer_and_sickle.svg/43px-Hammer_and_sickle.svg.png[/img] Soviet Armed Forces

Killed = 10,705,345

Wouned = 14,891,517

Taken Prisoner = 5,259,000




[img]http://www.netmerchants.co.uk/shopimages/sections/thumbnails/icon_raf_roundel.gif[/img] British Commonwealth Armed Forces

Killed = 580,000

Wouned = 475,000

Taken Prisoner = 318,000




[img]http://www.murphsmilitaria.com/webstore/categories/flag_usa.jpg[/img] United States Armed Forces

Killed = 462,016

Wouned = 689,746

Taken Prisoner = 130,201[/font]



-------


[font="Arial Narrow"][color="#0000FF"][u]ALLIE TOTAL [/u]

Killed = 11,747,361

Wouned = 16,056,263 [/color][/font]








[i]... then when you add civilians [/i]

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/WorldWarII-DeathsByCountry-Barchart.png/800px-WorldWarII-DeathsByCountry-Barchart.png[/img][/center][/quote][/b][/size]


[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties[/url]

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[color="#2F4F4F"][b]Some observations ...

* The Soviets lost 91 % of the total Allie death toll of 11,747,361 ... that is pretty remarkable, and you don't really see that reality conveyed in most WWII American movies, books, storylines etc. The American narative is usually that the US "saved" the world from Nazism.


* The Japanese had a very ow number of their soldiers taken prisoner by the Americans (40,000). Do you think this correlates to the idea that they would fight to the last man ?

* The Japanese also have a very low % of men wounded in comparison to their number of dead. For most countries the totals are similar ... but for Japan it is like 10 % the number were wounded than killed. Does this also portray the fact that the Japanese would keep fighting even once wounded ? [/color]






[color="#556B2F"]Some questions some of you may be able to help me with ...


1) We call Japan and Germany the Axis and us the Allies ... but what did Germany and Japan call the Soviets, Americans, and Brits and themselves ?


2) Does the US have any monuments honoring the Soviet soldiers of WWII who fought alongside the US ? Or did the cold war prevent any of this ?


3) Does Russia have any monument honoring the American soldiers of WWII who fought alongide the Soviets ?


4) Where is the best Museum in the US for WWII material ?


5) Where is the best Museum in the World for WWII material ? [/b][/color]

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[b]* Also I find the fact that Germany has a taken prisoner total (11 mil) twice their killed total (5 mil) as odd. Sort of makes you wonder if they were "Quick" to surrender in those cold Russian Winters ? Or whether they just gave up easily as they saw the writing on the wall ? [/b] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img]








[quote name='Nati Ice' post='592950' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:37 AM']who voted the russians as being the best on a per man average[/quote]

[b]That was me on accident actually ... I meant to click Germany.[/b]

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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='592948' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:32 AM']1) We call Japan and Germany the Axis and us the Allies ... but what did Germany and Japan call the Soviets, Americans, and Brits and themselves ?[/quote]

In Germany they pretty much called each side the same thing, only translated it was [i]die Achsenmächte [/i](the Axis Powers) and [i]die Allierten [/i](the Allies). During my most recent visit, I asked my German relatives what sort of derogatory names German soldiers had for Americans. I didn't explain to them we called them Krauts, Jerries, or donkey-raping shit eaters. They said there were no derogatory names, but I don't really believe them.

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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='592952' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:43 AM'][b]* Also I find the fact that Germany has a taken prisoner total (11 mil) twice their killed total (5 mil) as odd. Sort of makes you wonder if they were "Quick" to surrender in those cold Russian Winters ? Or whether they just gave up easily as they saw the writing on the wall ? [/b] [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/39.gif[/img][/quote]

Watch the Downfall and you'll see what 1/2 of the German soldiers were doing at the end. [url="http://imdb.com/title/tt0363163/"]http://imdb.com/title/tt0363163/[/url]

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[quote name='CincyInDC' post='592959' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:59 AM']Watch the Downfall and you'll see what 1/2 of the German soldiers were doing at the end. [url="http://imdb.com/title/tt0363163/"]http://imdb.com/title/tt0363163/[/url][/quote]


downfall great movie

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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='592948' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:32 AM'][color="#2F4F4F"][b]Some observations ...

OK i will answer the questions then add my 2 cents

* The Soviets lost 91 % of the total Allie death toll of 11,747,361 ... that is pretty remarkable, and you don't really see that reality conveyed in most WWII American movies, books, storylines etc. The American narative is usually that the US "saved" the world from Nazism.

well this is part of it. No single country could beat the germans, not even the great russians that u love. The russians survived and later won for a few reasons, most had nothing to do with the great russian soldier.
1) the allies (mainly the US) supplied russia with all of its weapons for the first year of the war, while the soviets moved there factories (most of which were in the west) to the east. If the USA hadnt made the lend lease in 1940-and 1941, then the germans would have been able to run the russians over, for they wouldnt pf had time to fight and rearm. so in way, the USA was very important there.


* The Japanese had a very ow number of their soldiers taken prisoner by the Americans (40,000). Do you think this correlates to the idea that they would fight to the last man ?

yes, but also when they surrendered we killed them, the pacific war was our eastern front, it was ugly.


* The Japanese also have a very low % of men wounded in comparison to their number of dead. For most countries the totals are similar ... but for Japan it is like 10 % the number were wounded than killed. Does this also portray the fact that the Japanese would keep fighting even once wounded ? [/color]
see above






[color="#556B2F"]Some questions some of you may be able to help me with ...


1) We call Japan and Germany the Axis and us the Allies ... but what did Germany and Japan call the Soviets, Americans, and Brits and themselves ?

already answered


2) Does the US have any monuments honoring the Soviet soldiers of WWII who fought alongside the US ? Or did the cold war prevent any of this ?

yes, none that I know of, but I dont know any monuments in russia for us

3) Does Russia have any monument honoring the American soldiers of WWII who fought alongide the Soviets ?

not that I believe

4) Where is the best Museum in the US for WWII material ?

washington


5) Where is the best Museum in the World for WWII material ? [/b][/color][/quote]
dunno, about rest of world, germany doesnt really have ww2 museums. for some reason




The soviets had the most casualties, but that doesnt mean they did the most to defeat germany.
1) germany lost the eastern front because hitler fucked it up, nothing the russians did. Russia could have been erased by october if the generals had their way.

2) the mass casualites are more a sign of terrible russian tactics and superior german defenses than the greatness of the soviet soldier. The commanders of russia had 1 thing that no one else had. millions of people, sooner or later the mass numbers will always beat better tactics, its just a m,atter of finding that tipping point. The russians would be willing to send in wave after wave into tank and machine gun fire in hope4s to over runa position. They had the numbers to do that. The only way the germans win, is in a quick strike to moscow, Most of the people didnt like stalin anyway, and if the germans had formed divisions of ex soldiers they could have assisted in the russian defeat. Many dont know this, but the germans were looked at as friends by certain ethnic groups that no longer wanted to be a part of the soviet union. The germans should have used them as allies instead of killing them, anothe hitler mistake.

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ok My post above got messed, I dont know how to answer after a quote, I put my answers in there, but its more like a run on sentence

sry

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[center][quote name='rudi32' post='592973' date='Nov 14 2007, 01:50 AM']germany doesnt really have ww2 museums. for some reason[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]--->[/color] [url="http://bubblare.se/movie/family_guy_germany/"]Bus Tour[/url]


:P [/center]

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I havent been to germany since 1990
<_<



I noticed u never responded to the answers I made



that was a great episode too

lol

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[quote name='rudi32' post='592981' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:03 AM']i didnt know that

sry unlike u i dont know it all.

I havent been to germany since 1990
<_<



I noticed u never responded to the answers I made[/quote]
way to click on the link he posted

[img]http://www.dpm.org.uk/images/ostrich-head%20in%20sand.jpg[/img]

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[quote name='rudi32' post='592983' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:05 AM']it was a joke


<_<

way to answer the question[/quote]
no it wasnt, you responded before clicking on the link then went back to edit the end of your post

i dont recall you posing any questions, either

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[quote name='rudi32' post='592981' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:03 AM']I havent been to germany since 1990[/quote]

[b]I was in Germany around the same time as my Father was stationed at Ramstein for a short time, before we went back to Turkey. [/b]






[quote name='rudi32' post='592981' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:03 AM']I noticed u never responded to the answers I made[/quote]

[b]I will.[/b]






[quote name='rudi32' post='592981' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:03 AM']that was a great episode too

lol[/quote]

[b]I agree ... one of Family guys best. Too bad Family guy recently made Youtube get rid of all the video clips of their shows. I wanted to post several from that episode. [/b]

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[quote name='rudi32' post='592983' date='Nov 14 2007, 02:05 AM']way to answer the question[/quote]

[b]Which question ? :huh: [/b]

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[quote name='rudi32' post='592973' date='Nov 14 2007, 01:50 AM']when they surrendered we killed them, the pacific war was our eastern front, it was ugly.[/quote]

[b]So you are saying there was an official US policy to "take no prisoners" ... and shoot those who surrendered ? This surely is missing from most WWII dramas [img]http://forum.go-bengals.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/23.gif[/img][/b]







[quote name='rudi32' post='592973' date='Nov 14 2007, 01:50 AM']The soviets had the most casualties, but that doesnt mean they did the most to defeat germany.[/quote]

[b]Wouldn't it be a fair statement to say that the Soviets also killed the most Germans ? They lost the most ... but they also killed the most of the Germans, which most people agree was the worlds superior fighting force. Maybe their large casualtie count is not a result of poor fighting on their part ... but rather the result of the Germans having superior weaponry & technology at the outset ... and the fact that the Russians suffered an invasion and then had to repel an invasion and invade & take Germany (including Berlin) (which was casualtie intensive) [/b]

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[center][quote name='rudi32' post='592973' date='Nov 14 2007, 01:50 AM']germany lost the eastern front because hitler fucked it up,[b] nothing the russians did[/b].[/quote]
[img]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j318/Tredcrow/BatCountry/Lenin.gif[/img]
[size=2][color="#FF0000"][i]"Don't hate the playa, hate the game"[/i][/color][/size]





[font="Arial Narrow"][size=1]* Yes I know Lenin's from the wrong time period ^_^ [/center][/size][/font]

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I don't have too much to add right now (busy at work for a change).

Other than to say

Downfall is a great movie

Germany did screw up, but that always happens in war

Soviets recovered well after a pisspoor start due in large part to Stalin and his purges/indecision

The Alllies needed each other in order to win, the Soviets paid the highest cost in lives lost, but couldn't have done it without war material provided by other sides, or the threat/existence of a Western front

Hitler takes blame for falling apart at the end, but he also gets credit for getting Germany as far as he did (in the end, mediocrity claims us all)

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[b]* Another aspect that is not talked about much ... is just how bad [u]Japan raped the civilian population of China[/u].

[color="#FF0000"]China lost 16,200,000 civilians in WWII[/color] :huh: , which far exceeds the number of civilians killed in any other country - the Soviet Union (next largest) lost (11,900,000 civilians). It is no wonder the Chinese still hate those fuckers. The Chinese Holocaust via Japan is not heard much about in the Western History books (according to Wiki - The victims of Japanese war crimes totaled 5.4 million civilians). In a way they exceeded the brutality of the Nazis, when you consider their methods. [/b]




[color="#008000"][b]another startling statistic ... [/b][/color]

[quote]* The Nazi Holocaust took the lives of 17.8 million civilians, 5.3 million Jews and 12.5 million non Jews.[/quote]

[color="#008000"][b]You have to wonder why usually the Jews are focused on in reference to the Holocaust when the majority weren't Jews. [/b][/color]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties[/url]

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[quote name='BlackJesus' post='593146' date='Nov 14 2007, 12:06 PM'][b]* Another aspect that is not talked about much ... is just how bad [u]Japan raped the civilian population of China[/u].

[color="#FF0000"]China lost 16,200,000 civilians in WWII[/color] :huh: , which far exceeds the number of civilians killed in any other country - the Soviet Union (next largest) lost (11,900,000 civilians). It is no wonder the Chinese still hate those fuckers. The Chinese Holocaust via Japan is not heard much about in the Western History books (according to Wiki - The victims of Japanese war crimes totaled 5.4 million civilians). In a way they exceeded the brutality of the Nazis, when you consider their methods. [/b]




[color="#008000"][b]another startling statistic ... [/b][/color]



[color="#008000"][b]You have to wonder why usually the Jews are focused on in reference to the Holocaust when the majority weren't Jews. [/b][/color]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties[/url][/quote]

My only guess could be that Hitler had such a professed hate for the Jews, and it made it more publicized.

Another point on why the Japanese had low amounts of wounded compared to killed. I really don't have an answer, more of a statement/question. I wonder if it had anything to do with philosophy with the wounded. I know we have a no man left behind philoshpy. At that time, did Japan have the same value on their own lives? My gut tells me no since they condoned and professed kamikaze attacks.

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Japan and the USA's geographical isolation of their mainlands was also a mitigating factor in the amount of deaths for both sides.

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Germany does have monuments in recognition to those that have died in their death camps.

Checkpoint Charlie is interesting, having large portraits of American and Soviet soldiers facing towards their respective direction of Berlin.


Dachau, outside of Munchen:
[img]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y87/nicholaslanders/The%20greatest%20adventure/P6180100.jpg[/img]

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