911 call: TX man shoots robbers with shotgun

[Actium]

People who care so much about strangers are going to end up marks for some con artist.

I'm not worried about the sob stories of strangers. Let the ones who already know and care about them mourn.

[ScarletKnight]

[quote name='Actium' post='600394' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:31 PM']People who care so much about strangers are going to end up marks for some con artist.

Im just gonna edit this and say....

First I was making up a sap story as an example for why its wrong to just kill someone because they were stealing.

AND

Secondly, I think what the guy did was wrong.

I wonder what his neighbor had to say about his actions.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Cat' post='600365' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:34 PM']That depends... someone robs me on the street? No. Someone breaking into my house? You betcha. Not because I care whether or not they steal a tv, some clothes, I don't care about any of that shit.[b] But so many times, in home invasion robberies, people get raped, beaten, killed. So yes, if it comes to the safety of my family, I'm not waiting around to find out if they intend to do harm or not.[/b][/quote]

So in this case, you at least agree that the guy is a murderer, since he entered the fray while they were on their way out, and were not a threat to even his neighbor's family at that point, and also because he used force way in excess of what is necessary to incapacitate a person?

I'm guessing you may not agree with this, because many Americans seem to carry a tendency towards vigilantism revolving around some perversion of the Hammurabic Code.

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='600392' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:26 PM']No its called reality and being empathetic for people.

You can't compare everyone to your own situation and you cant judge someone based on only knowing one thing about them...that they stole a piece of property.

There are more questions to ask than just saying...."too bad asshole"

Think about your own family members and people around you, if one of them did something out of desperation you wouldn't be so judgemental.

And, for some people getting a job DOESNT solve anything. Please you think living off of 7.50 an hour a whole 2 dollars more is easy? Im sure a full time job at 7.50 an hour with taxes taken out will pay for alll the bills in one month

I am not saying that someone should steal, what I am saying is that if you see someone stealing from your neighbors house you don't go and kill them, for many reasons. One, its wrong...and Two you have no idea who they are or why they are doing what they are doing....they may not be some hardened criminal and it sure isn't your job to make that call.


Oh and having a family doesn't mean kids...it means having to help your mom pay for rent and feed your younger siblings. Some people actually have really hard situations and your really naive to think otherwise.[/quote]

Hey you're the one making execuses and stories up about them... not me.

You're obviously democrat right?

Fuckers shouldn't be stealing shit if they are rich or poor, needy or not needy... at the same time, that doesn't mean the dude should have killed them but regardless, I don't feel bad for someone breaking the law if someone else decides to break the law right back on them....

[CTBengalsFan]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='600427' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM']Hey you're the one making execuses and stories up about them... not me.

You're obviously democrat right?

Fuckers shouldn't be stealing shit if they are rich or poor, needy or not needy... at the same time, that doesn't mean the dude should have killed them but regardless, I don't feel bad for someone breaking the law if someone else decides to break the law right back on them....[/quote]

Robbery and murder are not close to the same plain.

[Ben]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='600427' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM']Hey you're the one making execuses and stories up about them... not me.

You're obviously democrat right?

Fuckers shouldn't be stealing shit if they are rich or poor, needy or not needy... at the same time, that doesn't mean the dude should have killed them but regardless,[b] I don't feel bad for someone breaking the law if someone else decides to break the law right back on them....[/b][/quote]


Time to round up all the people sharing music and take 'em out gestapo style.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='600427' date='Nov 27 2007, 04:58 PM']Hey you're the one making execuses and stories up about them... not me.

You're obviously democrat right?

Fuckers shouldn't be stealing shit if they are rich or poor, needy or not needy... at the same time, that doesn't mean the dude should have killed them but regardless, I don't feel bad for someone breaking the law if someone else decides to break the law right back on them....[/quote]

Ha! This is exactly what I was talking about a few posts ago when I described our perverted version of the Hammurabic Code, you are my little case in point, aren't you!

[Palmer4HOF]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='600431' date='Nov 27 2007, 05:03 PM']Robbery and murder are not close to the same plain.[/quote]

Armed robbery would be close... I really haven't read the story... i came in too late.

However, I read scarletts original post and responded back to it.

... and obviously I understand the difference and severity between the two crimes

[quote name='Ben' post='600434' date='Nov 27 2007, 05:10 PM']Time to round up all the people sharing music and take 'em out gestapo style.[/quote]

eye for an eye...

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='600438' date='Nov 27 2007, 05:17 PM']Ha! This is exactly what I was talking about a few posts ago when I described our perverted version of the Hammurabic Code, you are my little case in point, aren't you! [/quote]

Watch the movie "Boondock Saints" ... great movie.

[ScarletKnight]

Yes I am a Democrat thanks.....Im assuming your a rifle loving conservative?

I honestly don't understand what that has to do with anything.

I figure most human beings can see the wrong in the situation and if not, then something somewhere is serious lacking inside their brains.

[STRAYCAT]

I work too hard to to have some shithead take something of mine. Dead meat.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='Palmer4HOF' post='600448' date='Nov 27 2007, 06:06 PM']Watch the movie "Boondock Saints" ... great movie.[/quote]

Seen it. An ideal movie, to me, because it contains some nice action without being aimed at the brain-dead, and poses a philosophical question. And it contains Willem Defoe.

I suppose our takes on the film were quite different, though, specifically the end, wherein the philosophical dillemma of vigilantism is overtly posed. Vigilantes are humans too, prone to failures and the rest. Except for Willem Defoe.

[|Bunghole|]

People have the right to shoot someone that trespasses into their home.
People should NOT shoot someone that is robbing their neighbor's home, ESPECIALLY in this instance where the robbers were fleeing the scene. And ESPECIALLY not to kill.
If it had been me, IN MY HOME, if I had time to choose, I would have likely taken their kneecaps out with my shotgun. Yeah, they'll never walk again, but they'll live.
This hearkens back to the Bernie Goetz case (sp?), where an armed civlian shot two thugs that threatened him with a screwdriver on a subway...
I don't know.
Some of this breaches those grey areas in life where right and wrong become blurred an sometimes people just act, rightly or wrongly.
I keep a shotgun in the house for home defense and for any eventuality (such as a worst-case scenario of Katrina-like proportions where there may be rampant looting, rape, etc) and I have every right to, but there are responsibilities that go with gun ownership and many gun owners are too trigger happy.
But there are also those that are pussified liberals that think nobody should own a gun, and they are just as wrong.
This country was founded on the principle that people have the right to defend themselves, with deadly force if necessary.
Unfortunately, in this era of shoot first and ask questions later, common sense was thrown out with the bathwater.
But, you also never know what the intention of someone is that is threatening you or your family, so sometimes you have to make a pre-emptive judgement call and live with it.

<<sigh>>

[rudi32]

[quote name='CTBengalsFan' post='600354' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:04 PM']would you people seriously kill someone robbing you? i don't think i could even bring myself to do that. just give them what they want, no one needs to die over a robbery. no one.[/quote]


tell that to sean taylor................

if someone is going to rob u, u better defend yourself

if u dont, then u are a sheep and they are the wolf.

[rudi32]

[quote name='ScarletKnight' post='600392' date='Nov 27 2007, 02:26 PM']No its called reality and being empathetic for people.

You can't compare everyone to your own situation and you cant judge someone based on only knowing one thing about them...that they stole a piece of property.

There are more questions to ask than just saying...."too bad asshole"

Think about your own family members and people around you, if one of them did something out of desperation you wouldn't be so judgemental.

And, for some people getting a job DOESNT solve anything. Please you think living off of 7.50 an hour a whole 2 dollars more is easy? Im sure a full time job at 7.50 an hour with taxes taken out will pay for alll the bills in one month

I am not saying that someone should steal, what I am saying is that if you see someone stealing from your neighbors house you don't go and kill them, for many reasons. One, its wrong...and Two you have no idea who they are or why they are doing what they are doing....they may not be some hardened criminal and it sure isn't your job to make that call.


Oh and having a family doesn't mean kids...it means having to help your mom pay for rent and feed your younger siblings. Some people actually have really hard situations and your really naive to think otherwise.[/quote]


oh please stop with this crap

I have worked in law enforcement over 10 years.

95% of the criminals arrested for shoplifting have the $ to pay for what they took in their pocket. thats a fact. they steal because they are criminals.

get rid of this romantic vision u have that the criminals steal becase they are poor. thats wrong and stupid.

they steal because they are criminals. if someone robs me or breaks into my house then I will protect my family. im not going to give them my stuff then sit down and talk about how hard society has been on them.

[rudi32]

[quote name='Bunghole' post='600541' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:50 PM']People have the right to shoot someone that trespasses into their home.
People should NOT shoot someone that is robbing their neighbor's home, ESPECIALLY in this instance where the robbers were fleeing the scene. And ESPECIALLY not to kill.
If it had been me, IN MY HOME, if I had time to choose, I would have likely taken their kneecaps out with my shotgun. Yeah, they'll never walk again, but they'll live.
This hearkens back to the Bernie Goetz case (sp?), where an armed civlian shot two thugs that threatened him with a screwdriver on a subway...
I don't know.
Some of this breaches those grey areas in life where right and wrong become blurred an sometimes people just act, rightly or wrongly.
I keep a shotgun in the house for home defense and for any eventuality (such as a worst-case scenario of Katrina-like proportions where there may be rampant looting, rape, etc) and I have every right to, but there are responsibilities that go with gun ownership and many gun owners are too trigger happy.
But there are also those that are pussified liberals that think nobody should own a gun, and they are just as wrong.
This country was founded on the principle that people have the right to defend themselves, with deadly force if necessary.
Unfortunately, in this era of shoot first and ask questions later, common sense was thrown out with the bathwater.
But, you also never know what the intention of someone is that is threatening you or your family, so sometimes you have to make a pre-emptive judgement call and live with it.

<<sigh>>[/quote]


ok this goes for a few here who have made the comment....i would shoot to wound not to kill..............


WTF????????????????

i know a few here were in the military, so i am sure they understand. have u all ever been shot at? u think u can sit there and shoot someones knee as they shoot at u? u gotta be kidding me. I guess because i am trined and know the truth....it seems so hard to believe that people actually think u can do that.

there is scientific proof that in a shootout ur body changes, u cant take out a knee or shoot to wound, u get tunnel vision and are lucky to see anything outside of whats in front of u,

its not like hollywood guys. in a shootout u shoot to kill.......period.

u ever watch those police videos of shootouts and say, damn they shot 20 rounds and hit the guy 1 time? Well i know why, it has to do with your sympathetic nervouse system, and other factors.

here u go a small google search, im sure theres more on it

[url="http://www.suresight.com/research.html"]http://www.suresight.com/research.html[/url]


(sry bung, wasnt picking on u bro, i agree with u 100% of the time, just replying to the thread)

[|Bunghole|]

[quote name='rudi32' post='600550' date='Nov 27 2007, 11:09 PM']ok this goes for a few here who have made the comment....i would shoot to wound not to kill..............


WTF????????????????

i know a few here were in the military, so i am sure they understand. have u all ever been shot at? u think u can sit there and shoot someones knee as they shoot at u? u gotta be kidding me. I guess because i am trined and know the truth....it seems so hard to believe that people actually think u can do that.

there is scientific proof that in a shootout ur body changes, u cant take out a knee or shoot to wound, u get tunnel vision and are lucky to see anything outside of whats in front of u,

its not like hollywood guys. in a shootout u shoot to kill.......period.

u ever watch those police videos of shootouts and say, damn they shot 20 rounds and hit the guy 1 time? Well i know why, it has to do with your sympathetic nervouse system, and other factors.

here u go a small google search, im sure theres more on it

[url="http://www.suresight.com/research.html"]http://www.suresight.com/research.html[/url]


(sry bung, wasnt picking on u bro, i agree with u 100% of the time, just replying to the thread)[/quote]
This is why my post included the caveat "IF I had time", which I realize you may not have. I am military trained, I am fairly calm under fire, I think I could shoot to wound, depending on the situation, especially with a scattergun.
Also, I wasn't assuming the perp had a gun themselves...if I thought that then all bets are off, I'm going center mass with the Mossberg.
My point was that every situation is unique, and gun owners would do well to have some training to recognize certain situations where deadly force in terms of shooting first just because you're scared may not be the best option.
As a cop, I'm sure you can appreciate that. If cops shot at every single person that alarmed them, we would have a police-state, and that isn't desirable either.

[BengalBacker]

You shouldn't be allowed to shoot someone who broke into your neighbors house and is running away.


That's why he shouldn't have called 911 and he should have dragged them into his house and claimed self defense. Then I'd give him a medal.

[Go Tory Go!]

[quote name='rudi32' post='600543' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:51 PM']tell that to sean taylor................

if someone is going to rob u, u better defend yourself

if u dont, then u are a sheep and they are the wolf.[/quote]



Either you haven't read about the circumstances surrounding Taylor's case, or you are a cop in Officer Barbrady's mould...because Sean Taylor wasn't the victim of a robbery.

If anything, I think it's more likely Taylor was a victim of vigilante justice than someone who, as you infer, should have been ready to defend himself against a break-in.

[rudi32]

[quote name='Go Tory Go!' post='600585' date='Nov 28 2007, 12:06 AM']

Either you haven't read about the circumstances surrounding Taylor's case, or you are a cop in Officer Barbrady's mould...because Sean Taylor wasn't the victim of a robbery.

If anything, I think it's more likely Taylor was a victim of vigilante justice than someone who, as you infer, should have been ready to defend himself against a break-in.[/quote]


actually u are wrong

the police think that sean was killed in a botched robbery.

his house was robbed a week prior. that was why he was home



man we got way off topic, but u can not shoot someone in the back if they are no threat to you...so that guy was wrong to shoot them.

[ThurmanMunster]

[quote name='rudi32' post='600591' date='Nov 28 2007, 12:24 AM']actually u are wrong

the police think that sean was killed in a botched robbery.

his house was robbed a week prior. that was why he was home



man we got way off topic, but u can not shoot someone in the back if they are no threat to you...so that guy was wrong to shoot them.

[/quote]
he wasnt robbed a week ago. from what ive heard they didnt take anything the first time and left a knife on the bed (warning him).

[|Bunghole|]

Sean Taylor was the victim of a hitjob, whether he "deserved" it or not will likely never be known.

[rudi32]

"HE" wasnt robbed no

his house was burglarized a week or 2 prior to his killing.

the fact is, we dont know at this point if it was an execution or a botched burglary


its not uncommon for burglers to return to a nice home, if they want more or hear there is something there.

but it is looking like a hit......but we wont know till the investigation is complete.

[|Bunghole|]

All we know is that a week ago, someone broke into his house, apparently didn't steal anything, and left a knife on his bed.
As of now, this latest incident, the most telling thing to me is that the phone lines to the house were cut and he didn't have a security system, so why cut the phone lines unless you knew what you were doing?
I think it was a deliberate hit, down to the fact that he was deliberately shot in an area of his body where he would bleed out rather than die instantly.
Just my take.
Perhaps I'm wrong.

[ScarletKnight]

[quote name='rudi32' post='600545' date='Nov 27 2007, 10:58 PM']oh please stop with this crap

I have worked in law enforcement over 10 years.

95% of the criminals arrested for shoplifting have the $ to pay for what they took in their pocket. thats a fact. they steal because they are criminals.

get rid of this romantic vision u have that the criminals steal becase they are poor. thats wrong and stupid.

they steal because they are criminals. if someone robs me or breaks into my house then I will protect my family. im not going to give them my stuff then sit down and talk about how hard society has been on them.[/quote]


Ummm? Did you follow the rest of the posts? I wasn't inferring that this is the situation for everyone, I was merely giving an example of why shooting people who were posing no threat and were running away from a neighbors house was wrong for more than one reason. Because you just never know...he could have been shooting a 15 yr old boy who was stealing for the first time in his life.

Who said anything about not protecting yourself when someone enters your own home? Wasn't me.

I don't have a romantic vision of anything, I just think more deeply about the possible situations there are.

[ScarletKnight]

By the way wasn't Taylor shot in the leg? I thought I heard them mention that today on the NFL network....the bullet hit a major artery and thats what ended up being deadly.